The Big Preston Election Debate 2024

Name: The Big Preston Election Debate 2024
Uploaded: 2024-04-26T01:45:12+00:00
Duration: 1 h 4 min 38 s
Channel: Lancashire Post

00:00:00Hello and a very warm welcome to this Preston election debate for 2024 brought to you by

00:00:29the Local Democracy Reporting Service. It's where we put the City Council's political leaders on the

00:00:35spot over the big issues facing Preston ahead of polling day this year which is on Thursday the

00:00:402nd of May. A good opportunity for me to remind you not to forget your voter ID if you're voting

00:00:46in person. Now in order to be eligible to take part in this debate a party had to be standing

00:00:51in at least a third of the seats up for grabs this year and that meant that Labour, the Conservatives

00:00:57and the Liberal Democrats all made the cut. However there are candidates from the Trade Unionist and

00:01:01Socialist Coalition and also a couple of independent candidates standing in wards across

00:01:06Preston this year. If you would like to find out what they're promising and indeed all of the

00:01:11political parties then check out their mini manifestos which we've compiled into a handy

00:01:16guide for you and which you can find via a link somewhere within the vicinity of this video.

00:01:22But for now let me welcome the ruling Labour group leader of Preston City Council Matthew Brown,

00:01:28Conservative Opposition group leader Sue Whittam and John Potter, leader of the Liberal Democrat

00:01:35group. Now we thought we would start as usual by offering each of you 60 seconds to make your pitch

00:01:41uninterrupted to the people of Preston. Before we started recording we drew to see who would go first

00:01:47and that honour this year went to Matthew Brown. So Matthew your 60 seconds start now.

00:01:53The local elections are really important we'd like to put faith in hard-working Labour candidates

00:01:58who deal with the day-to-day issues affecting you such as tackling fly-tipping and the potholes

00:02:03caused by the Conservative County Council. However Labour's the only party with a vision for the city

00:02:07based on our community wealth building principles. If Labour is re-elected to run Preston we'll

00:02:12finish the once in a generation 120 million job of regenerating our city centre that's

00:02:17created hundreds of local jobs, comprehensively address the cost of living crisis, deliver new

00:02:22council homes and a new publicly owned bus company, launch Preston Digital Cooperative that will

00:02:27include free wi-fi for residents in some areas, expand our events programme and reopen Guildhall

00:02:33Foyer, deliver new transformative levels of investment in Preston's parks and sports facilities

00:02:38and support the new Preston Newstone. Preston is doing it for ourselves, vote Labour on Thursday

00:02:43May the 2nd so we can continue this work. Matthew thank you, John whenever you're ready your 60

00:02:48seconds are underway. Prestonians will be going to the polls in May with loads of things to think

00:02:53about from local issues such as the future of our parks to the state of the roads but also we've got

00:02:59the general election and the current state of the economy in the background as well. Now I don't

00:03:04blame anyone for being fed up with politics right now, we have a failing Tory government in Westminster

00:03:10and a Labour-run Preston council wasting your money and charging you more. As Liberal Democrats

00:03:16we don't accept the inevitable decline in public services, better is always possible and we want

00:03:22to deliver that here in Preston. We have candidates and community champions in every ward, local

00:03:28teachers, NHS workers, from stay-at-home mums to retired engineers and why are Lib Dems winning

00:03:34in by-elections across the country? Above everything else it's the hard work we put into our

00:03:39communities to do right by our residents. On May 2nd vote for change from the other two, vote Lib Dem.

00:03:46Thank you John, Sue finally to you, your 60 seconds begin now. I know a lot of people are

00:03:52disillusioned with the government and are also called as some of the behaviour of our MPs like

00:03:56recently. However people have an opportunity to vote at the next general election very shortly

00:04:02so I want to give a clear message on 2nd of May, it's not about the government, it's about Preston

00:04:07City Council, it's about local hard-working individuals who want to get the best for our

00:04:12local areas and for Preston. Politics is really hard at times and representing a political party

00:04:18is difficult but what makes us want to do this is our sheer determination to get better things for

00:04:24local people and make sure they get access to the services that they need. Times are really tough,

00:04:29prices have continued to rise and people are genuinely struggling. I always wish I had a

00:04:34magic wand but I don't. What I can promise you is that every Conservative candidate

00:04:38works hard, is honest and is a community champion for the area. Please go out and vote and think

00:04:44local on May 2nd. Sue thank you very much indeed and thanks to each of you for that opening.

00:04:52Now those of you with long memories might recall that the Preston election debate this time last

00:04:56year opened on the subject of the city's regeneration prospects and whilst not wanting

00:05:01to make it feel like Groundhog Day all over again I thought that's where we begin this time round as

00:05:05well simply because when there are a lot of long-term projects ongoing necessarily the years

00:05:12slip by before people can really come to appreciate them and feel the benefits of them whatever they

00:05:17may be. In that scenario though is there a risk that Preston starts to feel like it's standing

00:05:23still to a degree? I'll start with you Matthew. Well I think we've got to look at our track record

00:05:28and I understand many people will be disappointed with what communities are facing because people

00:05:34have had it tough with austerity and the Conservative-led government as well but if

00:05:39you look at what the Labour council is doing we've actually got in the market so we are

00:05:44delivering things having to do it ourselves because the previous approaches hadn't worked so

00:05:49the Animate cinema, a 45 million pound cinema leisure development will be open

00:05:56within 12 months, the Harris museum, the youth zone, a mountainous house, you know working with social

00:06:02housing providers and plans to deliver the first council housing in a generation and obviously we

00:06:07do have plans and it's probably going to be linked a lot more to when these developments do open

00:06:12it's a real regeneration of our city centre in terms of culture and creativity so we're actively

00:06:18trying to promote new concerts, new activity around the city so people can enjoy that.

00:06:24So if you actually look what we are doing I do think we have a very positive story to tell and

00:06:28as well as I mentioned all the time we actively try to promote decent working conditions, a real

00:06:33living wage, use local companies, you see on the Harris museum there's been nearly 300 jobs because

00:06:40the Preston-based contractor Conlon, over 50% of the subcontractors have been Preston-based

00:06:45companies with a PR postcode. We're really trying to build that resiliency and a big part of this

00:06:50is resiliency, it's about fairness but it's also about resiliency that nobody's going to save us,

00:06:55you know we don't get the same levels of investment naturally as Greater Manchester often

00:07:00and London, that isn't going to work, neither is singing to the tune of actually a government

00:07:05that's cutting us back year after year so this is about working collaboratively with our institutions,

00:07:10local businesses, community to deliver something new and creative and we think we're doing a pretty

00:07:15good job. Stu, the reality is you don't deviate from that vision really do you, in fact all three of you

00:07:21in terms of the major projects that Preston is undertaking at the moment you're all pretty

00:07:26much singing from the same hymn sheet. Yep I think that's absolutely true Paul, we all want the best

00:07:32for Preston, I think that's what we've all three leaders here have got in common and we all want

00:07:37the best for Preston but some things they are moving really slow some of these projects and

00:07:42they're taking a while to get going and we've been a big hit hard really with the Guildhall

00:07:47and the fact and I know it's not your particular fault Matthew that it's got rack and it's got

00:07:52works to be done but we do need to get that foyer opened because it was used for the Mayor's Ball on

00:07:58Saturday evening so there's no reason why we can't move forward and get that up and running really

00:08:02really quickly to get some kind of venue back to Preston and then we can move forward, it's just

00:08:08it seems to be slow because we were talking before about how many hustings we've done

00:08:12and we're still talking about the same things year after year. Just to explain for anybody

00:08:18who's forgotten rack is the material that was dug crumbling concrete and several places have had to

00:08:25be closed for safety reasons and the Guildhall or certainly the main theatre in the Guildhall

00:08:30is one of them. John that's just been a necessary evil hasn't it, it's not something you can really

00:08:36pin at the door of the ruling Labour group. No no I wouldn't do that, I want to be fair to the

00:08:42ruling Labour group as well but you can't walk through Preston City Centre without seeing bits

00:08:47of it you think just it looks in decline. I mean you are absolutely correct for Animate, for the

00:08:52Youth Zone that has had cross-party universal support but if you look at our city centre and

00:08:58people come in say well what is the point in coming into the city centre right now? Now we need to

00:09:03change that, like most towns and cities it's not going to be a retail-based offer that's

00:09:08going to save our city and actually and what's all and we can't avoid the fact what we need is also a

00:09:13change of the bigger levers of power. We need you know whatever happens with the general

00:09:18election something has got to change to make our towns and cities more able to thrive. I mean the

00:09:24Lib Dems have already done their big pitch about taking business rates and actually moving that

00:09:29burden away from the tenant and onto the landlord as a way of getting life into some of these

00:09:33streets and it's going to be those sorts of initiatives that are really going to breathe

00:09:37new life into places like Preston. In terms of the Guildhall John, I know at the budget meeting

00:09:43earlier this year you were looking to the longer term future of that facility. Yeah. Is that

00:09:51rather defeatist that you think that the Guildhall in its current form really hasn't got got much

00:09:55life left? You can't get past reality. Buildings have certain lifespans and the Guildhall at most

00:10:02is going to have a few decades left. That's the nature. Anyone that tells you different

00:10:06doesn't understand the nature of that concrete in the Guildhall and what we need in Preston more

00:10:10than anything else is actually a conference venue and because the Guildhall is of its time it's

00:10:16served a purpose it's had a great life but we know it is coming near the end of that life at some

00:10:21point so we need to plan for what's next whether and to do that you have to have an idea if money

00:10:27suddenly appears like we've had lots of things recently like you know levelling up funds or

00:10:32whatever else that come in you have got to have a plan in place so if the money becomes available

00:10:36or an opportunity presents itself you can grab it and say this is what we want for our city.

00:10:42Matthew those one-off government funding pots that Labour locally in Preston quite often decries

00:10:48as being insufficient compared to the day-to-day money that you've lost through the years of

00:10:53austerity. They're underpinning much of the regeneration work that you're championing

00:10:57aren't they? You've got to give the government credit for that. Well to a degree they are but

00:11:03a lot of these projects were started before we had success with Towns Fund levelling up and the rest

00:11:07of it. The Harries is a long-term project that we do have and obviously we do welcome any funding

00:11:12that we're successful to get and again it was a political choice we're going to build it and

00:11:18own it ourselves as a city then we have more control over you know tenants, local businesses,

00:11:23local supply chains etc etc so it's very much part of a plan but you know we can't get away

00:11:29from the fact and I said this last year and I'm saying it again that these two when they're in

00:11:33government from 2010 to 2015 the Conservatives afterwards they impose crippling levels of

00:11:39austerity on Preston which is primarily a diverse working-class community and there's been less

00:11:46money to do things with so yes it is welcome we do have some capital money but our revenue budget

00:11:51would have been about 46 million pounds it's now about 23-24 so we can't do everything but I think

00:11:57if you're looking around what we are doing in terms of capital investment it's 120 million pounds

00:12:03supporting the youth zone, a moundedness house, reopening the Guildhall foyer that we're going to see

00:12:09animating the Harries and it's participatory so we're benefiting local companies, local people but

00:12:15we've not seen those levels of investment in Preston since the late 60s early 70s and it will

00:12:21create close to a thousand jobs if not a thousand jobs so yes we are in an envelope of conservative

00:12:28austerity but we're doing everything we can and then obviously we work with partners, the university

00:12:32obviously they did that we work very closely with them on their regeneration if you look around

00:12:37Friargate that area is pretty much brilliant so in difficult circumstances we're really trying to

00:12:42build the city up but I mean obviously we need a change of government from my perspective

00:12:46later this year with the Labour government I think that will really help going forward but

00:12:50you know in the current climate I think we're doing pretty well with what we face.

00:12:53Just briefly answer Sue's point that certain things are moving quite slowly obviously there's

00:12:57been delays to the Harries and animates slight delays granted but in terms of the Guildhall

00:13:02and the plan to reopen the Guildhall foyer can you put a date on that? Well we hope to do it

00:13:08this year but again it's not anyone's fault that we found rack and if we had a government that was

00:13:14supported what they would do is make money available to councils to deal with it and deal

00:13:18with it quickly but we don't so obviously we're trying to find a way of dealing with that going

00:13:22forward but the plan is Guildhall open the next few months and then obviously we need to look at

00:13:27how we can actually open the rest of the building because obviously there is rack and that needs to

00:13:32be dealt with going forward in both the you know the main hall and the charter theatre and

00:13:38obviously we could open the foyer which you know is a 500 seater venue and that'll be pretty good

00:13:42going forward but you know we're standing behind the Guildhall we want it open again but again

00:13:47it's not always that easy when we have issues around financing issues around finding things

00:13:53like racking the roof. Sue are you committed to the future of the Guildhall in its current guise

00:13:59or do you share John's ambition to see a completely new venue for Preston at some point?

00:14:04We definitely need a venue in Preston at the moment Guildhall has got quite a bit of life

00:14:09in it as we use the foyer and we're using the foyer going forward for the count then there's

00:14:15no reason why it can't be opened as quickly as possible to get that up and running and have some

00:14:20kind of venue there. I mean I went to the Grand at Clitheroe last week you know it's a small venue

00:14:25and it brings in loads and loads of business and people and that's what we need you know I'm not

00:14:30asking for a big MEN sort of arena type of thing but just something that's the centre of Preston

00:14:35it's really important to people who live in Preston and then they use all the facilities

00:14:40in Preston itself the restaurants and the bars because they make a night of it and I think that's

00:14:44we need to get that up and running as soon as possible. Just staying with you Sue in general

00:14:50terms at the moment do you think Preston has got a good image?

00:14:55Look I'm a Preston girl born and bred and I love Preston all the time but there are things

00:15:01that we need to sort out and unfortunately it is depressing some of the areas and the

00:15:08shops shutting down and buildings not coming back into use again because they're you know but

00:15:13we've got and I have to agree with Matthew on this the new bits at Stoneygate and the station

00:15:19quarter and things that are planned going forward will bring it up and running and a good

00:15:25you know viability and vitality city is what we need but at the moment we're just

00:15:32it's just a bit slow is what I would say and we do need to get that we've got a fantastic

00:15:37you know university lots and lots of students but we don't want to just be known as a university

00:15:43city we want people older people uh more like you know 40s 50s wanting to come into the city

00:15:50centre and the way to do that is to get a venue where they can go and you know make a whole night

00:15:56of it because it's not going out just drinking it's having a meal it's having a drink it's going

00:16:00to a an event of some sort in the city centre. John can I come to you what do you think Preston's

00:16:07reputation is like at the moment? I mean the city's fantastic it's a great but I chose to

00:16:14come here and I've chose to stay here get married and stay in the city but if I mean we asked this

00:16:19question at scrutiny when we had our leisure and culture cabinet member from Labour coming

00:16:24I said okay what's what's what's Preston's unique selling point if you put it on a poster

00:16:29what is Preston and he listed off maybe 15 different things but there's no focus to it

00:16:34and I think that's the key thing actually we need to give ourselves a unique selling point

00:16:39so we can say come to it and whether you want to do it because of the history or the brilliant parks

00:16:43or whatever then you've got to do it but I also want to touch base a little bit on what Matthew

00:16:47said before because he was talking about funding and he was talking about you know how you know

00:16:52Tory government funding we should just point out that Keir Starmer's pledged to not change from

00:16:57Tory funding formula so you talk about the next Labour government hopefully been able to do

00:17:02something for you you're going to have to have some serious chats with your leader if you think

00:17:05he's going to fund local government because he's not saying that at the moment but we will come on

00:17:10to funding you'll be all delighted to hear a little bit later on but Matthew just to you

00:17:15on Preston's image at the moment I mean one of the items that you funded in your budget was

00:17:21an antisocial behaviour coordinator so you obviously think there's some kind of issue

00:17:26with with that problem particularly in the city centre is that fair

00:17:31yeah of course there is yeah obviously we need to do more and obviously as part of the share

00:17:35prosperity funding too we've got money for CCTV and obviously obviously the use of would be a big

00:17:41part in trying to tackle antisocial behaviour and we are very concerned about that obviously but I

00:17:47think if you look at the vision that we do have it's very clear you know this is a Labour council

00:17:52that's delivered a record number of affordable homes last year the highest out of any in

00:17:57Lancashire you know so we're trying to tackle that poverty which often leads to

00:18:02communities suffering antisocial behaviour as well but again you know we've had a Tory government

00:18:08that's caught the police and we've lost you know I know we're getting a few back now but we've lost

00:18:14the police numbers that we had previously and these things do matter and if you cut services

00:18:18to the board these things do matter so I think what we're trying to do in terms of our image

00:18:22for the city is we're really trying to do things fairly and in terms of equality and make sure

00:18:27that everyone benefits and I think that's very clear in our manifesto but it's not easy because

00:18:32you can't have to do things on a shoestring and I think a lot of these things that we're

00:18:35discussing today around empty shops around Guildhall with RAC and the rest of it it's a

00:18:40fact of having to do things when we're not properly funded and I'm probably more confident

00:18:44that John is that a Labour government will address that than the current one.

00:18:49Maybe those things aren't easy as you say but also some of them aren't seen are they so in

00:18:53terms of a fairness agenda that doesn't necessarily translate into whether somebody's

00:18:59walking down Frigate and seeing a lot of people sleeping in in shop doorways. Indeed yeah what I

00:19:05do know is that with Councillor Carne who's a cabinet member of the team in terms of tackling

00:19:10homelessness we're throwing everything at it we're putting lots of funding into it the council itself

00:19:14has opened a directly provided council homeless shelter we obviously work with homeless charities

00:19:22I mean the issue as well in Preston is obviously in terms of the train station being there we do

00:19:27attract often more homeless individuals because it's the administrative centre of Lancashire but

00:19:34we're trying to do everything we can do there but if you look at some of the statistics around you

00:19:39know deprivation around child poverty yes it's going up but it's not in no way near similar size

00:19:45authorities within both the region and Lancashire as well you know living wage jobs the employment

00:19:51rate we are doing a lot better than people think and I think people can very easily be negative but

00:19:57what we're doing as a labour authority is we're doing things very differently we're taking the

00:20:00lead in terms of public regeneration doing that with partners and then we're supporting working

00:20:05communities like trying to get the NHS to you know recruit people in the highest levels of

00:20:10deprivation we're launching a digital cooperative soon where in some areas will be free wi-fi for

00:20:17residents you know we have a network of community food hubs we have a new volunteering centre where

00:20:23we can actually work in communities and try to divert people away from antisocial behaviour so

00:20:28to say that we're doing nothing is a little unfair because we're very clear what we want to do and

00:20:33why we're doing it going forward just let me pick you up on one thing because this isn't one that

00:20:37we'll we'll come back to it's just a small point but the idea of free wi-fi for some communities

00:20:43that seems otherworldly when you mention it to people how is that exactly going to work how are

00:20:47you going to demarcate who gets free wi-fi and who doesn't well the idea behind having a new

00:20:54vehicle I mean people are struggling at every level in this economy whether it's in gig economy

00:21:01jobs which are insecure which don't have union representation whether they're in housing stress

00:21:06uh so what we're trying to do is save people money so the fact we do have so many living

00:21:11wage employers like the council itself and community gateway and others the fact we do have

00:21:16a record number of affordable homes last year you know this is alleviating that as well and

00:21:22obviously people can access free wi-fi that can save them money too and they have energy

00:21:27efficient efficiency measures as well they can go to one of the food hubs we support if they're

00:21:31struggling in terms of food all these things do help as well as trying to create decent well-paid

00:21:36jobs for local people so on the surface yes it does seem a bit abstract but in terms of digital

00:21:41divide and how that costs people a poverty premium it's really really important so we're doing a lot

00:21:47more of that getting into communities with these ideas these preston model ideas and bringing about

00:21:52that change don is that kind of thing realistic do you think free wi-fi for some residents

00:21:59um it sounds a bit pie in the sky uh i'd love to see it practically happen but i mean i'm a trustee

00:22:07of a local community center one of those community hubs matthew talks about you know a lot of this

00:22:11stuff is done by people on the ground where actually the council involvement is minimal i

00:22:18mean they're happy to get it usually the council acts as a middleman to government funding that

00:22:22then goes to these community centers but it's actually it's the tremendous volunteers on the

00:22:27ground of these places working massive hours not getting paid or getting paid absolutely minimal

00:22:33but are keeping these communities alive they are the champions of our city they are the people that

00:22:39have helped during the cost of living crisis and they are the people who rightly should be getting

00:22:43all the credit and all the praise that we can possibly give to them they can't function on

00:22:48praise though can they how do you how do you back them practically well you back them partly by

00:22:53giving them i mean like i said i the community time is involved is brilliant at getting doing

00:22:57bids you know and that's what they do and we talked about about press and city council getting

00:23:01bids a lot of these community organizations living hand to hand in terms of trying to get

00:23:06various bids whether that's from the national lottery or whatever else and what we need is to

00:23:11have a decent network of these so they can support each other because not every one of these community

00:23:15centers has someone that can write a bid that can secure a food kitchen or a or a or a kind of an

00:23:22outreach program to help people in the local community they need funding to be able to do that

00:23:27and so it's passing on that experience to as many people and as much knowledge so they can help

00:23:32themselves as well because present city council can do present city council is a tiny organization

00:23:37it doesn't have this money to be able to do it it has to leverage it from government

00:23:42so from your perspective the charitable sector or the third sector however you want to

00:23:47describe it what could you do to to support them and in order to help them make more of a

00:23:52difference on the ground than they're already doing i'd like to just touch on the digital

00:23:57inclusion bit first because i have to say quite often and i understand matthew that is certain

00:24:02areas and certain wards but i have to say there are a lot of people in the rural areas who do not

00:24:07have are not even got access to the internet there's no signal there's no nothing you know

00:24:13they've had loads and loads of new homes built and no no facilities provided with them no

00:24:18infrastructure so it's really difficult so there's some wards and there are people struggling i did

00:24:23census collection a number of years ago and the amount of people that can't read or write or have

00:24:29problems with with reading and writing in the rural areas so it's we know there are deprived

00:24:33wars but there are pockets in all wards that need help so i do want to mention this and about the

00:24:39bidge precedent city council have always been really really good at writing bids they've got

00:24:42some fantastic officers who do that no doubt about it but equally john's right about having somebody

00:24:49at his community centre but there are a number of village halls and community centres now who've done

00:24:54really really strong bids and managed to tap into funding and they do tend to share that information

00:25:00between them uh so so that's where they need to tap in it's not all the responsibility of

00:25:05precedent city council it's a responsibility of communities and the voluntary sector and the third

00:25:10sector whatever you'd like to call them all those people are genuinely in the heart of the community

00:25:15are all working together to get the best for their residents can i just come back john really briefly

00:25:21yeah i mean obviously the digital cooperative yeah a big part of it is looking at digital literacy

00:25:26there's going to be free devices that will be recycled to communities that need them and that

00:25:31will obviously include people in rural areas that might be struggling but again it's just

00:25:36i understand people are cynical something new people don't like people struggle with new ideas

00:25:41don't at every level but we need something like this because people are struggling in terms of

00:25:46the cost of getting online and also in terms of bringing bills down if you're online have a bank

00:25:51account and the rest of it which many people are in our community you know that's something that

00:25:55needs to be addressed but you know we have this every year from both sue and john a bit of a

00:26:00cynicism about the labour-led policies that we have i mean one example we do have is we have

00:26:06worked both a member and officer level we work as much in many ways more with registered social

00:26:11landlords to get affordable housing into our community we're going to have potentially 380

00:26:16new affordable properties in stoney gate for the people in our community that live in those

00:26:20properties and the opportunity what we do matters and it shouldn't be ridiculed because these are

00:26:26really important things or the 300 people who are working on the harris you know in the local

00:26:33supply chain that matters to them the people who get these opportunities so there's a very clear

00:26:37vision of what we're trying to do and obviously we do see the imposition of the worst forms of

00:26:42austerity and free market economics on our communities which which is then enhanced by

00:26:48ethnicity gender and disability and we as a labour-led council want to challenge that and do

00:26:52something about it so this is why we're coming up with these ideas and i think the biggest challenge

00:26:57you get in local government and local politics and politics generally often is that people don't

00:27:01like new ideas but obviously in preston labour we've got plenty and these ideas are now embedding

00:27:06pretty well in communities and getting some support in communities as well but one of those

00:27:10ideas that you've mentioned certainly for the for the past few years is is council housing and the

00:27:15rebirth of council housing in the city there's been some flesh on the bones well sorry flesh

00:27:21put on the bones of that this year but isn't it a bit underwhelming really you're looking at 20

00:27:27properties on the the former horrocks mill site that's like you're referring to a little earlier

00:27:32it's not really the vision of a return to full-throated council housing that you you've

00:27:37talked about so passionately in previous years is it well we have to start somewhere and obviously

00:27:43prioritizing something like that has been a little difficult for us especially with all the

00:27:46things that we're doing at this moment in time because we've got a very big agenda for a council

00:27:51our size but obviously the quickest way to do it is acquiring them these 20 properties we're looking

00:27:58to provide others by potentially purchasing properties in the market so those in temporary

00:28:04accommodation for example it costs a fortune the bed and breakfast bill it makes sense that we

00:28:08actually own properties ourselves to help people who might be suffering temporary homelessness but

00:28:13obviously we do want to scale it up and the Labour government have said quite clearly there'll be more

00:28:18opportunities for council housing as we go forward so obviously this is a direction we're going in

00:28:24we're hopeful we can go further going forward and you know even South Ribble and Chorley I

00:28:30believe are providing council housing so we're basically following their lead as well going

00:28:33forward but you know we want to make a big start on this and we want to see how the planning

00:28:38the planning system as well could you live in new council houses across all

00:28:43developments in Preston going forward so I understand it does sound a bit modest but

00:28:47again we've been cut back that much obviously we want to do this but we've got to start small and

00:28:52grow upwards going forward. Just very very quickly on that one before we move back to

00:28:57John and Sue there wasn't really a distinction between social housing and affordable housing

00:29:02in terms of those 20 can you say for definite there will be social housing which is the

00:29:07cheaper of those two options rather than affordable? Again the money we have I can't

00:29:13guarantee you that but that is the aspiration we do want to do that going forward additionally

00:29:17we are getting some social rented properties from our relationship with registered social providers

00:29:22which is good because we do need a lot more of that especially as the price of renting

00:29:27properties is going up so I'm quite confident we'll be able to do that but I can't give a

00:29:31100% guarantee. John could more pressure be put on developers to be delivering more

00:29:37social and affordable homes in Preston do you think? Oh I think there's lots of things wrong

00:29:42with the planning system that need that need changing I think I think lots of people talk

00:29:46about you know councils being awkward with developers but actually if anyone who's been

00:29:52knows anything about planning knows that developers have such an upper hand on councils in terms of

00:29:57their ability to to wait things out and just pause their building until the time's right for

00:30:03them and like we've passed so many thousands of houses in Preston that have and developments that

00:30:07have yet to be built because there's no pressure on the actual developers to actually finish what

00:30:12they say they're going to do so you know I'm not going to be churlish about the plan to start

00:30:17council houses in Preston because actually I agree with it and actually and I think that that's the

00:30:21gap in the market that does need to be filled because one of the things that developers can

00:30:25get in it's their it's their game and and so if they decide not to build in a place even if they

00:30:29said they will we have no power to enforce them to do it so actually the planning law is needing

00:30:34changing and we should do what we can and you know there's Lib Dem councils across the country there's

00:30:3870 of them and I know some of them are doing exactly the same thing so I'm not going to

00:30:42criticize Matthew because I'll be doing the same thing if I was in charge. Stu very often you sit

00:30:48in planning committees and hear new estates pass certainly or certainly new developments rather

00:30:53within the city centre in particular where there are no affordable homes whatsoever in spite of

00:30:58that being local planning policy because the developers are able to argue that it would make

00:31:03their scheme unviable financially unviable that can't be right can it and isn't that

00:31:08at the government's door to have done something to prevent that? I agree I've always said that

00:31:14I've never been afraid to stand up and say if I think our government gets it wrong it's a developer

00:31:19led system I know a few years ago there was a white paper on planning of which I spent hours

00:31:25poring over and responding to I'm sure we all did and it does need to change unfortunately we are

00:31:31where we are and John's right developers you know can sit on land and do whatever I do support

00:31:37Matthew on his council houses if you think back there used to be council houses my family

00:31:43lived in a council house and they had the opportunity to buy them and that was it was

00:31:49great that policy that you had the opportunity to then own that home but the problem is then

00:31:53new homes weren't built to replace those and we ran out of homes so we need to do something

00:32:00and although it's a you know a small start but it's a good start to be honest with you I'm not

00:32:05I'm not going to criticise something that I actually think is a good idea what we do need to

00:32:10make sure though is that when we have affordable homes especially on all the new estates that are

00:32:16built being built in our areas especially in the rurals is that the infrastructure is in place

00:32:21and that money for school places is actually given to Lancashire County Council from Preston

00:32:27City Council for education when it's due and not to be just let's go for the affordables

00:32:33and let's put we just need that balance we need to make sure we've got everything in place

00:32:37sometimes they do have to make that choice though don't they between affordable homes and school

00:32:41places if the developer again with with the power that they've got is saying you can have one or the

00:32:45other but not both well if you've got the affordable homes you've got to think where are

00:32:51they going to go to school I mean those people in affordable homes may not have access to cars

00:32:58there's not hardly any buses you know what are they going to do and that's what we need to make

00:33:04hard decisions at time but you also need to think long term not just short term about those families

00:33:10that are moving into areas which we really welcome but need to be able to get to school

00:33:15well I'm always loved to bring other authorities into this discussion but you you've kind of

00:33:20invited me to on that one so because there's three potential or promised I should say new

00:33:26schools in the northwest Preston area aren't there part of the five and a half thousand six

00:33:31thousand homes being developed in that area over a 20-year period none of them have yet materialized

00:33:38the Lancashire County Council has not given any indication of you are a member of Lancashire

00:33:43County Council yourself well all of you are in fact Lancashire County Council hasn't given any

00:33:48indication of when those schools will come to pass they've focused instead on expanding existing

00:33:53schools it's always really difficult Paul because as head teachers and I speak to many head teachers

00:34:01if they're asked if they want a new school in their area they don't necessarily want that

00:34:05they want to expand their own school because each each child gives them so much money towards their

00:34:11school so the schools that have expanded we really really welcome the primary schools absolutely

00:34:16with regard to the secondary school from what I understand the section 106 agreement has been

00:34:21signed now between the developer and LCC but the issue is bringing it forward and we have no

00:34:28authority none of us Preston LCC you can't make a developer bring that land forward so we're waiting

00:34:34for that to go to planning committee and all we can do is push and shove and cajole but we know

00:34:40that it's needed John just coming back to you that land as I understand it is allocated it's reserved

00:34:47what do you think has to happen in order to make these schools a reality I think they are as much

00:34:54it's absolute disgrace I'm sorry it's that land was put aside they've had it for we got it for a

00:34:59pound and yet these secondary schools which take three years from actually being commissioned to

00:35:04actually being open and we're already getting the pressure now and they still haven't turned up and

00:35:09I'm sorry at some point you know what the critical mass will be actually when people don't move to

00:35:14Preston because there's not the schools and which hurts all of us we don't get the bill we don't get

00:35:19the growth in the city but if I have people on the phone with me as we get their places absolutely

00:35:25in floods of tears because they're having to split their family up to go to different schools or they

00:35:29say oh you know what you can travel you know two and a half miles to that secondary school don't

00:35:34worry about it even though the other kid is at a school two and a half miles the other way is

00:35:38absolutely horrendous for those parents and it's not what we promised and you we're going to talk

00:35:45about the future of councils for me this is as clear evidence you can get that actually a two

00:35:51tier authority where you have Lancashire county here and Preston there doesn't work because now

00:35:56we're getting into a situation where they're both arguing with each other over okay are we going to

00:36:01do this with what's left of city deal or are we going to do that all the time this is parents

00:36:05struggling and we don't have the schools that were promised is absolutely ridiculous

00:36:10sorry I don't understand the argument between the two the Preston and LCC about city deal because I

00:36:17don't think that's happening so I'm not sure about that and about parents that most most parents got

00:36:23their first choice the issue isn't about reception it's about year two that's the issue and it's

00:36:31people who are moving into the area which we welcome we welcome our Ukrainian guests the

00:36:36Afghan community we've offered a lot we've actually welcomed these people but unfortunately

00:36:41they're not managing to get their older children into the schools that they want them to do

00:36:47so I'm not sure that all your facts that you have are correct but thank you

00:36:55Sue missed the briefing on uh on city deal where actually the argument over 10 million pounds of

00:37:01assets that haven't yet been delivered including the schools has gone and that includes the linear

00:37:06park money towards the harris all the rest of it that hasn't yet been delivered and that's what

00:37:11they're currently negotiating about whether we should continue city deal despite the fact we're

00:37:15missing out on all those assets you could say for people that don't know what the city deal is it's

00:37:20basically a an infrastructure funding pot isn't it um houses and homes and jobs in return for in

00:37:26return for infrastructure or certainly the funding to build that infrastructure Matthew those three

00:37:32sites in northwest Preston where schools could reasonably be expected to have been built already

00:37:38according to the master plan that Preston city council developed for that area should you as

00:37:43the ruling group be putting greater pressure to make that happen whoever that pressure needs to

00:37:47be applied to well we are and I am because it's equally frustrating for us I mean the city deal

00:37:53has been on pause for nearly two years there's been a disagreement amongst the parties over

00:37:58various matters we're negotiating a situation where we think we'll be able to get some more

00:38:05an improved position for the Preston city council in terms of the outstanding things that we have

00:38:09linear park money for the harris museum money for animate which they did probably do through city

00:38:16deal um but I mean John raises a very good point actually and I actually do agree with him on this

00:38:21issue that um the whole way it was sold and we've got to go back to 2012-13 when the city deal was

00:38:27first signed obviously a very long time ago was that you get the public infrastructure we've got

00:38:33that to some degree yes we've got the roads but you'd also get the schools gp surgeries and the

00:38:37rest of it and obviously the county is the educational authority and it's really frustrating

00:38:43that they did seem to indicate about a year ago that they actually deliver these new skills and

00:38:48they're not so again from my political perspective I do not like it when developers manage to take

00:38:56all the profit and then communities are left wanting which is what's happening in this

00:39:00instance and I'll be doing everything I can to ensure that we actually do get

00:39:04the infrastructure because as well as the parks and the schools we need the gp surgeries I believe

00:39:08there has been some expansion or will be an angle which is positive for that area but it needs to

00:39:14happen at a greater pace but again the city deal it's not just the city council if it was just us

00:39:19we'd be doing it differently if we were unitary we'd be doing it differently we've got to work

00:39:23with obviously the tory county obviously we don't have a lot in common with as you can imagine

00:39:29south we will have strong views on it as well and then there's the likes of holmes england

00:39:33so obviously we've got to do what we can and I will do to improve the situation

00:39:37just to pick up on the point sue was making earlier just last week 99 of primary school

00:39:45children starting primary school in september were given one of the family's top three choices so is

00:39:51it just the case that maybe maybe these schools aren't needed uh well I can't see how they cannot

00:39:59be needed with the amount of people that are living in preston and in those houses obviously

00:40:03you do need that 99 figures across lancashire across the way it is I mean I'm I'm hearing

00:40:08different stories about children having to go to schools three or four miles from where they

00:40:12might want to and obviously if you know they've got to get on buses and the rest of it it's not

00:40:16the easiest time for them so yeah we're going to do what we can to sort that out what I would say

00:40:21about city deal and our housing more generally is we've been pretty tough and ensuring we do

00:40:26get the affordable homes so the 590 new affordable homes in 22 23 second highest out of about 40

00:40:33councils in lancashire that is a positive aspect of it as is good highways but I think there's

00:40:39another point that you might come on to later it's not for this election because for the county next

00:40:43year yes we've got fantastic new roads around there but some of the existing roles with the

00:40:47potholes the tory county council aren't dealing with that it's getting embarrassing um well

00:40:54potholes as a whole debate in itself as you alluded to yeah one for the county elections

00:41:01well uh but again we are we are doing what we can and putting pressure on around that but what we

00:41:07find is the tory county council are very unresponsive to what we say what we do they

00:41:10basically just do their own thing but obviously that's more a matter for sue than myself you're

00:41:15not you're not going to give me an exclusive and say that preston city council is going to get

00:41:18involved in directly repairing roads are you not at all I think that would be another one to add

00:41:25to the list of things to do well all of that whether it be a county council responsibility

00:41:32or a city council responsibility does need funding and I did promise that we we come on to that as

00:41:38well now depending on exactly when you undertake the borrowing that's needed for the animate scheme

00:41:45that the cinema leisure scheme in the city centre on the on the size of the former market that could

00:41:50determine according to the budget that you all passed a couple of months ago that could determine

00:41:55whether or not preston city council has to make 1.1 million pounds worth of savings on a budget

00:42:02of 24 million pounds that is a significant sum isn't it matthew is it not something that you're

00:42:08concerned about at this stage are you you can tend to wait until

00:42:12you know one way or the other whether it's money that you're going to have to find

00:42:17well we're we're quietly confident that I mean we've not made due to marty rawlinson our brilliant

00:42:23deputy leader of resources we we've not made any cuts for some time really and again that

00:42:29doesn't matter in terms of the services we provide to the community obviously council

00:42:34officers are often very cautious as well so we need to do need to keep the anxiety in mind but

00:42:40we're confident we can ride it out again what we will do is obviously make sure that we do

00:42:45borrow at the most favourable terms and at the most favourable period but again I just go back to

00:42:52the positivity that we feel about the fact that we're delivering delivering city centre

00:42:56regeneration in public ownership building that long-term resilience for the community in the

00:43:01city you know we had these conversations 25 years ago with Tidebourne about how it's going to be

00:43:07you know the most amazing project retail based development the rest of it so our community

00:43:11have waited nearly 30 years for this things that we should have done a long time ago just because

00:43:16of failed approaches and I understand people are cynical naturally because it's hard I understand

00:43:21people on social media pretty negative and I also understand that it's not easy because of

00:43:27because a lot of the city centres are building site but give it two years and this city centre

00:43:32will be transformed you know we'll have youth zone a mountainous house we'll have the Harris

00:43:37Museum open again within 12 months we think anime it's going to be a very very different place and

00:43:42I just think it's short-term pain for long-term game at this moment in time irrespective of

00:43:48whether you do have to find that 1.1 million pounds depending on on the borrowing level and

00:43:53the borrowing arrangements you are on the road to running down the reserves to the minimum allowed

00:44:00levels aren't you I mean from 10 million pounds sorry 10 million pounds between 23 24 being spent

00:44:07through to 27 28 it'll take you down to just 1.3 million pounds in your general reserve fund and

00:44:12you're legally obliged to hold 1.1 million pounds aren't you aren't you in danger of running out of

00:44:18road and that mantra of a no cuts budget it might not be one that stands up for very long

00:44:25well we managed to avoid that so far obviously we're going to do everything we can to avoid that

00:44:29if we have to make savings we'll make savings but as Labour led councils we do not want to impose

00:44:34cuts on our communities across Preston it's just something we don't want to do there's been enough

00:44:38of that so obviously we'll be working to ensure that when we do start the anime the biggest

00:44:43investment in the city centre for probably 50 years I said earlier that it's done on the most

00:44:48favourable terms because we don't want to do that but I accept your point Paul you know if it comes

00:44:53to we're going to have to look at where we do make some savings but it's something we'll try to avoid

00:44:58for as long as we can because it makes sense when people are struggling with cost of living with

00:45:04stresses on services and the rest of it that we actually don't cut them because people need those

00:45:09services so we're going to make sure that we do maintain a healthy budget position because we

00:45:14balance the budget every year and we avoid cuts but if we have to look at them we will

00:45:19you don't think you're running out of the road on this particular track I think not no yeah I mean

00:45:26there are some internal discussions which I can't reveal at this moment in time Paul but you know we

00:45:29are more and more confident that we're going to do okay and just very briefly on this one before I

00:45:35go back to John and Sue you you've had certainly for the past two or three years a contingency list

00:45:40of savings of 1.3 million pounds sort of in your in your back pocket so to speak that would that

00:45:45would obviously cover the 1.1 million pounds should it should it come to pass what is is on

00:45:51that list is there anything you you're willing to divulge that's on that list because it's been

00:45:55waved around as as a potential saviour if it's needed for a good few years now but nobody really

00:46:01knows what it amounts to well I mean there's things like the community engagement budget

00:46:07potentially which could be looked at but again it's something we just don't want to touch

00:46:11you know there's things like um events that we could look at as well you know I can't remember

00:46:16precisely what's on the list I've got that much going on at the moment I do apologize for that

00:46:21but uh those kind of things are things that aren't statutory services potentially we could

00:46:27cut but we don't want to do it and we're doing a lot more obviously we have the shared prosperity

00:46:31funding which came from uh uh the the so-called benefits of leaving leaving the European Union

00:46:37and we're spending a lot more at this moment in time so and we've got to get an external

00:46:41funding from other sources like we've seen with the Harris you know there's been some foundation

00:46:45money as well for community wealth building we've got so we're trying to make sure we maximize the

00:46:50money going into our communities as much as possible John just coming to you you said that

00:46:55the budget that you could have made a bigger deal of the finances but you were content to

00:47:00to sit back and wait and see as well are you really performing that scrutiny role in terms of

00:47:06what the ruling group are doing if you if you're willing to to give them a buy in that in that

00:47:11respect oh I'm definitely not giving them a buy let's just cut out some of the some of the giant

00:47:16here so Mark uh sorry Mark Matthew said oh we've got a balanced budget let's let's go a balanced

00:47:22budget in his terms means not yet going bust we are still losing nearly two million pounds a year

00:47:28we're just chewing up through savings that's what we're doing but the the role of scrutiny and me

00:47:33and Sue are both on scrutiny was that when this came to pass because the the situation with interest

00:47:39rates and the amount of borrowing we're going to have to do is going to change dramatically

00:47:43hopefully for the better by the end of the year we said absolutely categorically by December we

00:47:49will know far more how that because you've got to service all that debt all these things that we want

00:47:54to do we all of us want the city centre to improve but if you're going to borrow money which

00:47:58the council is going to do you want to know what level of debt that's going to put on it because

00:48:03it's like anything if you mortgage anything you've got or you put payments on a car you have to pay

00:48:07them back and we need to know our interest rates and our risk so we can assess that and we were

00:48:13told by officers look by December we will know exactly what that risk is to far better than we

00:48:18do right now having had the ups and downs of interest rates and everything else that we've

00:48:22had over recent years so this is really really cool and it is and again I'm going to go back to

00:48:26my point I'm not sure I see a future for councils the size of Preston I just don't think they're

00:48:31big enough to cope going forward I think county council's too big to be efficient and Preston's

00:48:36too small to be punching where we want to that's why I believe in reorganisation where we can have

00:48:40a proper unitary authority moving forward which has the power to do these things but I know again

00:48:47Lib Dem leaders of councils look at some of the ones we have to do like Somerset which are making

00:48:51absolutely horrendous cuts that nobody wants to make at all regardless of any political colour

00:48:57but councils at the moment are not financially stable and we've got to address that fact that

00:49:02the future of local government is genuinely at risk so won't it be you've taken a similar

00:49:08position unless I'm mischaracterizing it to John a wait and see approach but won't it be too late

00:49:13by December because the borrowing level whatever it is it's just going to be something you're going

00:49:18to have to swallow isn't it because the projects have been you know the projects are being built

00:49:23it's not like the plug can be pulled I think we took a watching brief both from advice from

00:49:28officers because we we didn't want to be seen doing our budgets to be like spending money on

00:49:34things that we probably wouldn't have the money for so we took a very sensible approach but the

00:49:39only reason Matthew that you've not done any cuts is because basically we're running with so many

00:49:43vacancies at Preston City Council that you didn't need to do any cuts as such in that in that

00:49:49department and obviously we're now going to have to wait and see what happens with the interest

00:49:53rates we're all looking at that they'll drop yeah I know you're also looking at if there's a Labour

00:50:00government the magic money tree will come along which isn't at all guaranteed so at the moment

00:50:05it's just a watching brief because we we do we all are agreed we want Preston to be a thriving city

00:50:11but you know the borrowing is going to cost a lot of money sometimes though it's like with

00:50:15the Guildhall it's no good just saying we're not going to get rid of the Guildhall we're going to

00:50:19hold on to it sometimes a third party might be better running for Guildhall and other than trying

00:50:25to do everything ourselves because that is going to cost a hell of a lot of money to run and and

00:50:32the money isn't there and my fear is you're stretching yourself too thinly on all these

00:50:37schemes and they're all going to come at the same time and you need a hell of a lot of money to do

00:50:41that just briefly so do you think that the big picture for Preston is going to end up costing

00:50:48the city on a day-to-day basis so the projects like Animate and the Harris there was also talking

00:50:55in the budget of potential overspends that may be brought up in in the future revealed in the future

00:51:01on the Harris do you think those big flagship projects are going to end up damaging the day

00:51:07to day budgets and harming the services that can be provided I should imagine they will do to be

00:51:12honest with you but none of us have got a crystal ball at the moment but we all we know that we see

00:51:17the economy how it is and there's the interest rates aren't falling as quickly as we would like

00:51:22uh things are costing more you just need to look at the cost of the materials for all the schemes

00:51:27that are happening at the moment they're just going through the roof you know literally going

00:51:31through the roof and those contingencies that all of us sensibly put into our budgets to cover

00:51:37any schemes those contingencies have been blown away because of the the world climate and being

00:51:43having access to the materials and work and everything else so we're just going to have to

00:51:47see now we all wanted Animate to go ahead we all agreed and it will go ahead but it will come at a

00:51:53cost just quickly Matthew same question to you really what what kind of a cost do you think

00:51:58Animate will come at if any or can you can you only see the benefits well I'm not naive enough

00:52:04to know there isn't a risk there's always a risk but I think there's a bigger risk not to do

00:52:08anything I mean I'm confident from the internal discussions that I have which I can't really

00:52:12reveal that it would be manageable in terms of finances it would be a great scheme but I think

00:52:18we uh I mean we talk about a potential Labour government obviously some of the things in our

00:52:23manifesto and one of the reasons why I think our communities don't bother turning out in elections

00:52:29is just how local government has not been not only being cut to the bone in terms of resources

00:52:35but in terms of powers so you know I've had conversations as I've other local leaders with

00:52:41the shadow secretary of state for transport Louise Hague about how we can potentially get the council

00:52:46to deliver a bus company again remember that 70s 80s 90s you'd actually generally get on a bus that

00:52:52was run by the local council it'd be cheap it could tackle net zero and wanted to do that and

00:52:57obviously council housing as well new opportunities there so I think there's a big issue

00:53:01and I think this also goes to the devolution debate as well Paul about the fact that

00:53:05we're really disempowered in this country compared to other European

00:53:09countries and that's a real issue our devolution deal is really poor but even those are the much

00:53:14better ones that we obviously have in Greater Manchester Merseyside and the rest they're still

00:53:19not as good as we get in other European countries so I think the democracy that we should have

00:53:23locally and regionally is a big question mark that we need to look at and obviously I'll be

00:53:28pushing for a strong devolution deal as soon as we get a new Labour government that devolution deal

00:53:33just for people who don't follow these things as closely as we're all obliged to did come to pass

00:53:39late last year so Lancashire does now have a devolution deal not not being finally signed yet

00:53:44but still going through the motions but there is a deal there on the table after after many many

00:53:49years of of trying now the Conservative controlled Lancashire County Council argues that that is

00:53:56worth something in itself because it's the first step on the road to greater powers for Lancashire

00:54:02and you'll get the powers that come via this initial deal and then you'll be able to acquire

00:54:07more why is that not enough for you at this stage it's dreadful it's absolutely atrocious I mean

00:54:14compared to what say Andy Burns it's something isn't it it's something though it's more than

00:54:18you had this time last year and if you actually look at what's going to happen within it potentially

00:54:24our 5.4 million shared prosperity money will go back to this new combined authority so we'd

00:54:30actually lose more than what we actually gain so that is a real anxiety for us because we mentioned

00:54:36some of the stuff we're doing in terms of shared prosperity skills the digital inclusion work

00:54:42support for community organisations CCTV it's coming from that pot and potentially it could

00:54:47then go back to the combined authority and we who are closest to the ground as district authorities

00:54:52won't have a say on how it's been delivered so that's a Lancashire wide combined authority again

00:54:59it's it's a dreadful deal I'm really sorry Sue it's it's an atrocious deal it delivers nothing

00:55:03for the people of Preston and Lancashire and the lack of ambition within it is frustrating and

00:55:08I've got to say it how it is because I'm obviously in these or have been in these conversations with

00:55:13local leaders even things like promoting decent work which was part of original discussions like

00:55:19decent living wage jobs mental health in the workplace trying to get Lancashire employees to

00:55:24do that access to trade unions trade union recognition we could be doing things like that

00:55:29but we're not it's really really frustrating that we're getting none of this to be honest but

00:55:34that's just the way we are at the moment the county council for their part have said that

00:55:39they've actually tweaked the deal to reassure the districts like Preston that you'll you'll still have

00:55:44a say in this shared prosperity money which you were talking about which Preston gets five and a

00:55:48half billion pounds almost well I'm afraid I don't trust them if I'm honest about it because if you

00:55:55look at the strategy they've imposed on Preston and obviously we'll have this debate in the next

00:56:00in 12 months time we have the county elections the youth zone that was something the county was

00:56:05going to deliver they withdrew from that Lancashire 2025 you know there's been many things

00:56:10that they could have done but they've actually left us to do and obviously in terms of funding

00:56:14and resources they've got a lot more of it really so you know I'm very cynical that we can actually

00:56:19get anything from the county council going forward but obviously in Preston with the city council

00:56:23we'll work with them as positively as we can do in this environment but also work with other

00:56:28partners and do stuff ourselves really that's the only way forward well just briefly Matthew

00:56:33you would like to see the end of Lancashire County Council wouldn't you but if that came to

00:56:37pass it would also be the end of Preston City Council because you wouldn't be a standalone

00:56:40authority on your own you would have to merge to cover a wider area say Chorley, South Ribble,

00:56:46potentially West Lancashire well my own view on that is I do think we do need a unitary council

00:56:53but I do think you know if you look at some of the the councils in Greater Manchester with

00:56:58footprints of say 250,000-280,000 that seems a more sensible scale than what we have at the

00:57:05moment with what appears to be regional government i.e. councils have become 400,000-500,000 I think

00:57:10that is taking away local democracy but I'd be open to a restructuring in terms of moving forward

00:57:16with a new council where we can actually take charge of our own destiny but I'd like to see

00:57:20on a much smaller footprint because I mean Salford Council for example I think the residents 270,000-280,000

00:57:28something that size I think would be sensible. John you'd also quite like to see the current

00:57:33system swept away wouldn't you but what would you say to people who are actually quite comfortable

00:57:38with the fact that they've got a very local council at a Preston level not even a central

00:57:42Lancashire wide level that they feel you know can deliver for them more effectively?

00:57:48But the problem with that is that the vast majority of the really important stuff go

00:57:52is in the county you know let's not let's not beat around the bush the Preston City Council

00:57:56does really important stuff but the vast majority is county you know you're thinking about social

00:58:00care roads schools you know all this sort of public health that's all county that's where

00:58:05the lion's share of your council tax goes that's the big ticket the problem is Lancashire County

00:58:09Council is too fat it's huge it doesn't it's not efficient enough to work and so actually we need

00:58:14a thing we need like I'm in total agreement with Matthew about the size and they're the same size

00:58:19as what we would would recommend and what came up a few years ago and I think to get rid of that to

00:58:25solve the issue about local representation you know both me and Sue are involved in parish councils

00:58:30I would see a lot more localised councils come in like that to be able to do this the smaller scale

00:58:35kind of bits and also it's how you structure your council there are councils that have

00:58:39different area committees that mean that say every single councillor within that area has

00:58:44to be on planning to give it a sort of more localised feel there are millions ways around

00:58:49it that is a better way than what we've currently got right now.

00:58:52So is it fair to say that the devolution deal isn't particularly

00:58:56ambitious that the Conservative Controlled County Council of which you're you're a member

00:59:01of the ruling group there is it fair to say that it's not been a particularly successful deal?

00:59:09No I don't agree I think it was a very difficult to get leaders around the table and come to some

00:59:15kind of consensus I think it's a start it would have been great if it was more but it's a start

00:59:21that the elected mayor wasn't in on the cards on the table so basically it's a deal without

00:59:28an elected mayor which meant that the funding was less but I mean Andy Burnham even though he's an

00:59:33elected mayor they all started off somewhere and what this promise is to open up more dialogue

00:59:39with government whichever government that may be and more access to funding with regard to the

00:59:44prosperity fund that the only difference it used to be passported through LCC to districts and

00:59:51that's just going back to that so I don't think it's not being able to trust us Matthew I think

00:59:55there's no issue with that money coming through because that's like a bit like getting the grants

00:59:59from government it has to go through yes it was badly let down about the youth zone I agree with

01:00:05that I'm sorry that that changed and that you've had to make your own youth zone and Foxton are

01:00:12also doing a youth zone as well so are plenty of youth zones in Preston going forward but I mean

01:00:18the 20 million is a start and also the county council have agreed that districts have a voice

01:00:23around the table and I do actually believe you will have a voice around the table the leveling

01:00:28up legislation doesn't allow you to have a vote that's that's the legislation but you will have

01:00:34a voice around the table it does allow you I don't want to go down this this particular rabbit hole

01:00:40there is a local option isn't there to to allow district councils a vote if the three upper tier

01:00:47authorities the former combined authority wanted to go down that particular route but they haven't

01:00:52the agreement that was done between Blackburn and Blackpool and I'm not I've not been involved in

01:00:57that actual agreement at the end and Matthew probably knows more about it than I do to be

01:01:02honest with you because he was one of the leaders around the table so I mean it's we are where we

01:01:07are and we could spend ages talking about well it would be better if that but I know a few years

01:01:11ago there was no way Chorley and South Ribble did not want to join with Preston that was one of the

01:01:16main issues and West Lancs didn't want to join with any of us let's get that right they feel

01:01:21more akin to Sefton so there's no way were we gonna ever get that and we would have spent years

01:01:27carrying on and on and on about the same debate well you know I like to throw a bit of a quick

01:01:32curveball question in at the end a bit of a rapid fire one and Sue you might have a slightly

01:01:37unfair advantage this year because it's actually something that you pledged in your your budget

01:01:42amendment this year which was to go for for four yearly council elections rather than having

01:01:47annual or certainly three out of every four year elections in Preston you'd rather that the public

01:01:52just went to the polls pretty much with the same regularity as they do for a general election just

01:01:58sell that particular idea and as long as you don't suggest that it's anything to do with avoiding

01:02:03having to do this debate every year oh absolutely that was my first reason actually that came in my

01:02:08head no it wasn't no I think it's about the money and about you know it saves quite a lot of money

01:02:14by us going to four-year elections a lot of other people do it and I was quite surprised actually

01:02:19when we had the boundary changes that they weren't suggested because it is a big ask it's a big ask

01:02:24for the officers it's a big ask for Preston to do every single year except the fourth year when it's

01:02:29county so I think I think it would make sense going forward Matthew is the cross-party consensus

01:02:36from your point of view on that or would you rather be out campaigning three years in four

01:02:42well it keeps us on our toes and we all lose a bit of weight as well at this time of year so

01:02:46it's not a bad thing to be honest no I do think that the main issue is not when we have whether

01:02:51we have them every year every four years I think it's local government being properly resourced and

01:02:56properly empowered the turnout in the 60s and 70s for council elections sometimes 45 50 obviously

01:03:03a lot lower now but that's because the local government had more power and did more things

01:03:07and it was more relevant to people's lives and I think that's the I think that's the issue rather

01:03:11than having it every four years or three years out of four as we have at this moment in time

01:03:17John just finally to you your preference um my idea I quite like the one every two years I think

01:03:24you know it's a weird kind of when when councils do it but they split them up by two there's not

01:03:28many that do it but I quite like that but I certainly think elections every year locally

01:03:32is tough going it's tough going for the public to understand exactly why they have elections every

01:03:36year and uh I and I wouldn't mind going to four-year elections just so I might have you know

01:03:41enjoy my birthday once in a while in April instead of thinking about postal votes landing

01:03:46well that is all we've got time for for another year it just remains for me to say thank you very

01:03:51much indeed to John Potter Sue Whittam and Matthew Brown for joining me polling day as I mentioned at

01:03:57the start is of course on the 2nd of May and if you're voting by post don't forget your ballots

01:04:01have to be back in time for election day either way don't forget to vote will you otherwise you've

01:04:07just wasted an hour of your life really haven't you you might really say that thanks very much

01:04:12indeed for watching bye

01:04:37you

The Big Preston Election Debate 2024

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