Amy Coney Barrett Presses Lawyer About Mental Health Clauses In Idaho Abortion Case

6 months ago

Justice Amy Coney Barrett questioned Joshua Turner, attorney for Idaho's Office of the Attorney General, during Wednesday’s oral arguments in Moyle v. United States & Idaho v. United States.

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Transcript

00:00 I guess I don't really understand why we have to address the stabilizing condition if what

00:06 you say is that nobody has been able to identify a conflict.

00:11 And on the mental health thing, the SG says, I just picked it up to check footnote five,

00:16 Idaho badly airs and asserting that construing MTALA according to its terms would turn emergency

00:22 rooms into federal abortion enclaves by allowing pregnancy termination for mental health concerns.

00:28 So if that's the only space that you can identify where Idaho would preclude an abortion and

00:34 MTALA would require one and the government is saying, no, that's not so what's the conflict?

00:40 Well, you know, I mean, of course we think we win whether you find no factual conflict

00:47 and therefore the injunction.

00:48 Why are you here?

00:49 I mean, you know, the government says, hold on a second.

00:54 You're here because there's an injunction precluding you from enforcing your law.

00:59 And if your law can fully operate because MTALA doesn't curb Idaho's authority to enforce

01:06 its law.

01:07 Well, I can't under the injunction because the injunction says that Idaho's law is preempted

01:12 in an incredibly broad range of circumstances to avoid as it conflicts with MTALA.

01:16 I thought it is much broader than that.

01:19 And this was based on the proffered injunction by the administration to avoid an emergency

01:26 medical condition, not in the face of an emergency medical condition.

01:29 So what that means is Idaho's law can't even operate when a doctor determines that a condition

01:34 might need to be avoided that hasn't yet presented itself.

01:37 That's far broader than the emergency medical condition and stabilization requirement under

01:41 MTALA because the stabilization requirement under MTALA is only triggered when there has

01:46 been a determination.

01:47 Okay, well, I would like to hear the Solicitor General's response to that.

01:52 But let me just ask you one other thing about the mental health consideration because I

01:56 can, I can understand Idaho's point that a mental health exception would be far broader

02:01 than Idaho law and have the potential to expand the availability of abortion far beyond what

02:06 Idaho law permits.

02:07 But the stabilization requirement only exists up until transfer, right?

02:13 Until transfer is possible.

02:14 So it's hard for me to see how with a mental health condition that couldn't be stabilized

02:20 before needing to transfer, right?

02:22 At that point, the Idaho hospital could say, well, you're stable.

02:26 You're not immediately going to be suicidal.

02:28 We'll leave you in the care of a parent or partner who will then seek appropriate treatment.

02:34 Well, that flexible view of stabilization is very different than the government's very

02:39 rigid view of stabilization, which is if an emergency medical condition calls for an abortion,

02:45 it's got to be provided right there and then if it's available in this very limited sense.

02:49 And so the stabilization continuum that you're talking about, I agree, that's built into

02:54 MTALA.

02:55 The statute says until transfer is possible.

02:57 Well, the transfer provision kicks in if a hospital is unable to stabilize a condition.

03:02 And so if a patient presents at a hospital and that hospital has the capability, the

03:07 availability to stabilize a condition, in the case of mental health, I invite General

03:12 Prelogger to come up here and tell you that I've got it all wrong and that, you know,

03:16 the mother that I described would not need to receive stabilization in that circumstance

03:20 and instead would be transferred to a psychiatric hospital or something and that wouldn't constitute

03:24 dumping under their reading.

03:25 I just don't see how that comports with everything they've said about the rigid view of stabilization,

03:31 that if a condition calls for it and a hospital can do it, it's got to be done there and then.

03:35 Does Idaho have any kind of conscience exemption for doctors under state law?

03:40 It does and there are federal conscience protections as well and I think that is a key point here,

03:45 Your Honor.

03:46 The administration told this court in the FDA case that individual doctors are never

03:52 required to perform an abortion, from what I could tell, but that doesn't extend to hospitals.

03:55 And so in the case of Catholic hospitals, and there are hundreds of them treating billions

04:00 of patients every year, under the administration's reading, Catholic hospitals who faithfully

04:04 adhere to the ethical and religious directives are now required to perform abortions.

04:08 Is that because no federal conscience exemption applies?

04:12 I don't know why they say that's the line that they draw between individual doctors

04:17 and religious institutions because Coach Snow, on his face, seems to cover both.

04:23 Okay, thank you.

Amy Coney Barrett Presses Lawyer About Mental Health Clauses In Idaho Abortion Case

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