Armed resistance forces in Myanmar seemingly gained control over Myawaddy, a key town near the Thai border, in early April. Although government troops later recaptured the town, analysts say Myanmar’s military junta may be losing ground overall in the country.
On this episode of "Zoom In Zoom Out," TaiwanPlus reporter Tiffany Wong speaks to Aung Kyaw Moe, deputy minister of human rights in the National Unity Government, Myanmar’s government in exile. We first zoom in on the battle of Myawaddy, then zoom out on the international response over Myanmar’s civil war three years on.
On this episode of "Zoom In Zoom Out," TaiwanPlus reporter Tiffany Wong speaks to Aung Kyaw Moe, deputy minister of human rights in the National Unity Government, Myanmar’s government in exile. We first zoom in on the battle of Myawaddy, then zoom out on the international response over Myanmar’s civil war three years on.
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00:00Welcome to Zoom In Zoom Out, your global look at news from Taiwan and around the region.
00:17I'm Tiffany Wong.
00:19Myanmar's military junta seems to be losing ground in the country three years after they
00:23ousted Myanmar's elected government in a military coup.
00:27Before we dive into the future of Myanmar with our guest today, let's first take a look
00:31at the latest battles on its border with Thailand.
00:35In early April, armed resistance forces appeared to gain control in a key town near the Thai
00:39border, ousting around 200 junta soldiers and marking a significant defeat for the military,
00:46which has been losing ground in other parts of the country.
00:49But government troops later returned to the town, forcing the resistance forces to retreat.
00:54It's just one of many ongoing battles in a conflict that seems to have no end in sight.
01:03We just saw pro-democracy militias gaining ground in Myanmar, but does this actually
01:07mean that the military junta is losing control?
01:10To learn more about this, I'm joined today by Aung Zaw Mo.
01:14He's the deputy minister of Myanmar's government in exile.
01:17Thank you for joining us today, Aung Zaw Mo.
01:20Thank you so much for having me.
01:22Let's first zoom in on the latest situation in your country.
01:25Recently, we've seen conflicts between the People's Defence Forces and the junta near
01:29Myanmar's border with Thailand.
01:32Who do we see gaining the upper hand?
01:34Of course, across the country, the People's Defence Forces, along, work together with
01:41the revolutionary forces, are ahead of the journey.
01:45And there are significant amount of territory that's being controlled by the revolutionary
01:51forces and its allies, including People's Defence Forces.
01:56And the development in Thai-Myanmar border has been also significant, and junta has lost
02:03almost everything there.
02:06And where exactly do we see these battles between the People's Defence Forces and the
02:10junta happening?
02:11And where are the People's Defence Forces making ground?
02:15It's across the country.
02:16It's coordinated, cooperated, planned strategically.
02:20And there are stand-alone battles, wars, and there are also coordinated effort together
02:30with the revolutionary forces.
02:31It's across the country.
02:32Right.
02:33The military announced plans to conscript 5,000 young men and women a month.
02:39How are people feeling about this?
02:40And what does this say about the military's strength?
02:44The junta is losing constantly across the country, and they are direly in need of human
02:50resources, because the casualties, wherever they fight, they lose, and there are casualties
02:56across the country.
02:57And in response to that, the junta activated the conscription law, which is illegal, and
03:05which people of Burma does not need to obey.
03:09But the junta is trying to enforce that across the country, including conscriptions against
03:15the Rohingya in Rakhine State.
03:18And of course, people in Myanmar have little to no choice in confronting.
03:26But one thing that I can be very clear is that people of Myanmar are determined to be
03:32ending the dictatorship in Myanmar, and it will continue to use all possible means and
03:39avenue to go against the junta and end them, which has enjoyed a long cycle of impunity
03:48in Myanmar for the crimes that they have committed against the civilians.
03:54We saw at the border town in Thailand that some of the military junta fighting there
03:58were actually defecting.
03:59Are we seeing a rise in this phenomenon?
04:02There are also a historic number of people has been defect, number of defector has been
04:07high compared to any other context that occurred in the past.
04:12And day by day, there are people, but it could be their rooms for accelerations and the velocity
04:18again.
04:19And there are defections.
04:20They are morally very low.
04:21They're not fighting because they believe in fighting.
04:24They are fighting against their own people.
04:26The people's defense forces are made up of hundreds of militias all around Myanmar.
04:30So what's the driving force behind them?
04:33Myanmar people had had enough of dictatorship for the last 70 years.
04:39And equality, self-determinations, inclusivity are the principle that's inspired young people
04:46to take whatever means possible to go against the junta.
04:51The people of Myanmar started with little to nothing and with little to no international
04:57support.
04:58But it's more than three years now that this determined mentality has been in accelerated
05:08phase.
05:10And the result that has been generated over three years shows the level of effort that
05:16young people made.
05:19At the beginning of the coup, there was a civil disobedience movement.
05:23And now we've also seen reports of young people trying to evade conscription by fleeing
05:28and even joining the people's defense forces.
05:30Could you talk a bit about these kind of movements to get youth support?
05:34The civil disobedience movement has been very innovative in Myanmar.
05:38It has been one of the backbone of the revolutions when it is being started.
05:41There are hundreds of thousands of civil servants who refuse to join the military junta to deliver
05:47the service or to work under their administration because junta does not have the legality and
05:52legitimacy to rule or to govern the people.
05:57It is a refusal to be governed by, and it is still the case.
06:02And many has been supported by the National Unity Government and its allies, both mentally
06:07and physically.
06:08And we are continuing to do so.
06:11And it has been historic.
06:13There has been no number, no such number in the history of Myanmar or anywhere else that
06:19civil servant has refused to join.
06:22One attempt took place, and it will remain a very highlighted chapter of our history.
06:30And most of those people have joined delivering service to the community where there are territories
06:38being controlled by the people's defense forces or the revolutions or ethnic revolutions organizations.
06:47And many of them has joined as well in the leading role, to take up the leading role
06:52in the armed resistance in order to speak the language that the junta understand.
07:00Now let's zoom out to look at how the region is being affected.
07:04These clashes within Myanmar have been spilling out on the borders with its neighbors, with
07:08the most recent battle for a trading hub right on the border with Thailand.
07:12How might this affect a democratic Myanmar's relationship with Thailand?
07:16The prosperity, democracy, stability in Myanmar is not a liability to neighboring countries.
07:23It's an asset, and it should be in the national interest of the neighboring countries.
07:28And the prosperity, democracy, again, in Myanmar, equality in Myanmar will contribute a more
07:36cohesive region, a more cohesive neighbor, to be having a more peaceful neighbors.
07:44And also, you know, the fact of the preventing transnational crimes that has been growing
07:49with the digital era.
07:51So we are consistently urging our neighbors to support the people of Myanmar over the
07:58junta because people have spoken in various means to the junta and to international community
08:05as well, including our neighbors.
08:08And of course, we are thankful to those who have been providing humanitarian assistance
08:14and providing support to our people on the humanitarian ground when they had to flee.
08:18And I think there is much more step that could be taken about our neighboring countries in
08:22order to make our country back to the path of democracy, which they will be able to benefit
08:29from as well.
08:31Both ethnic minorities like Rohingya, as well as military defectors, have all been fleeing
08:35into border countries like Thailand and Bangladesh.
08:39How are the host countries dealing with this refugee crisis?
08:43Conscription law, the revolutions, the resistance movement, of course, has created catastrophe
08:51situations.
08:53And it is not a choice, not the thing that the people of Myanmar has created.
08:58It's the military who created this catastrophe.
09:01And people who had to flee, the civilians who had to flee to neighboring countries,
09:06including Rohingya, prior even to the spring revolutions, once they did survive, they were
09:12not migrating there for economic reason or for anything.
09:15It was honest.
09:17People were on a survival mode.
09:19So as I mentioned earlier, we express our sincere appreciation to those who help us
09:24in this difficult time.
09:26At the same time, these security forces under the chain of command of the junta has been
09:32fleeing, for instance, in Bangladesh-Myanmar border.
09:36The border guard police are main perpetrators, one of the main perpetrators against the genocidal
09:42attack to the Rohingya people.
09:44And six years later, these people, security forces, who committed crimes against the Rohingya
09:50atrocities has to flee in a similar way to Bangladesh.
09:55And of course, they are responsible for war crimes, crimes against humanity, to genocide.
10:00And neighboring countries should be treating them with international norms and standards
10:04to bring the justice and held them accountable for the crimes that they have committed instead
10:09of just peacefully or repatriating them back to Myanmar or handing them back.
10:14Could you give us a general sense of the sanctions or economic pressures that international onlookers
10:23have given Myanmar or support to either the NUG or also the military junta?
10:32So far, the national unity government and its allies did not get the amount of support
10:38it's required from international community from either financially, technically or any
10:43other aspect.
10:44There is a gap.
10:45But junta has been getting support from like one or two like-minded countries that which
10:52support the dictatorship.
10:54And again, I think the international community as well responded with the statement of concern,
11:02condemning the attack.
11:03But it's the time to act, not release the statement or show the concern.
11:08And because it is not the language, the diplomacy is not the language that the junta understands.
11:15That's why the people of Myanmar started to speak in a different language, because diplomatic
11:19pressure alone doesn't work.
11:22And international community could do much more parallelly, including more sanctions
11:28that will reduce or that will cut the legitimacy, finance and weapons.
11:33And these three cuts is mandatory of financing financial flow.
11:38If the junta is not able to get access to the financial resource they need, they will
11:45not last long on top of all the constraint that's being created.
11:50So which countries are the ones that are giving all the support to the military junta?
11:55It's apparently Russia that has been, if I have to name, and there are a couple of other
12:00ones, but not many people have treated them as government or recognize them as the government.
12:06We're currently based in Taiwan, where many civil groups have been pushing for our government
12:11to do more for the people of Myanmar.
12:14What do you suggest international onlookers do to help their governments pay attention
12:18to the situation in Myanmar?
12:20I mean, international community has done little to, almost some country has done nothing.
12:28And it is a call for moral action and to support in Myanmar.
12:36Of course, the world has competing priorities, but the international community is capable
12:40of doing more than one thing at a time.
12:43Just because there are Ukraine, that doesn't mean that the catastrophic situations in the
12:47global south need to be ignored.
12:49And of course, we are in a situation where resources are constraints and there are multiple
12:54other challenges, economically, politically, and things like that.
12:57I think we are in a race with authoritarianism and democracy.
13:04If authoritarian countries are able to support openly the junta to maintain the dictatorship,
13:12those who promote the democracy, who believe the principle and value of democracy need
13:17to support the democratic movement because it will bring collective, it should be in
13:22the collective interest of the global community and international community.
13:26Thank you so much for joining us on the program today, Wang Zhemo.
13:30Thank you so much for having me.
13:32This has been Zoom In Zoom Out.
13:34For more stories from Taiwan Plus News, follow us on our social media.
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