Special Envoy Warns Todd Young About Countries ‘Pouring Fuel On The Fire’ Amid Crisis In Sudan

7 months ago

During a Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing on Wednesday, Sen. Todd Young (R-IN) questioned the U.S. Special Envoy for Sudan Tom Perriello about the lessons he’s learned from other positions and stabilizers vs destabilizers in Sudan.

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Transcript

00:00me on that trip back in 2021 when there was so much hope. Senator Young. Thank you, Chairman.

00:06Special Envoy Perriello, there's hope that your appointment to this position will

00:10spark the need to end this latest chapter in a decades-long history of violence and

00:18humanitarian devastation in Sudan. I share that hope as well, but you're certainly aware that

00:24bringing a lasting peace to Sudan isn't achievable in your tenure, however long that will last.

00:32In that vein, I'd welcome your big-picture perspective on what's achievable in a Special

00:40Envoy role beyond the obvious cessation of hostilities. Specifically, I'd welcome

00:45your reflections from your other Special Envoy role in the Great Lakes region, in DRC,

00:52dealing with a lengthy, even intractable conflict. What victories and lessons learned

00:57do you take from Congo that you can apply in Sudan?

01:02Thank you very much for the question and for the interest. It is true that we have been on a mad

01:08sprint the last three months. I hope the bags under my eyes can be testimony to how seriously

01:14we're taking the urgency of the talks. But we have had conversations and planning sessions about what

01:20is the mid-horizon and what is the far horizon, and how do we ensure that across our government,

01:26and I think this includes across branches of government, we are prepared to make sure that

01:32we are not only ready for failure, i.e., if this gets worse, what do we need to be thinking about

01:38by summer in terms of peacekeeping forces or other questions if we're at a fully factionalized war

01:43and famine, but also are we prepared for success? Are we prepared that if we can get a breakthrough

01:50on peace, that we know how difficult governing is? All of us know it. And that is something I

01:57think the Sudanese people want to take on as a project, and they want a very inclusive process

02:02there. But until the war is over, it's very difficult to get to some of those questions. To me,

02:07this is also part of the solution and the strategy, which is I actually think that the negotiated

02:13settlement should be relatively narrow. It should not renegotiate things the Sudanese people have

02:18already stated are important to them about an inclusive civilian government, about integrating

02:23a reformed professional military underneath that government. Those have been things that have been

02:27negotiated before, but we need to be ready for how do we build those democratic institutions,

02:32how do we build out the kind of civil society, particularly with youth that make up the vast

02:36majority of the country, and would look forward to the conversations about how we ensure being

02:41ready for that opportunity. The role of foreign actors has been discussed already in terms of

02:49both those who have destabilized the situation, those who are seeking to bring stability to it.

02:55It would be challenging for anyone to defend the actions of those funding this fighting and

03:01genocidal activity on the basis of legitimate economic activities. I'd like for you to clarify

03:08for the public unclassified record which countries are working as stabilizer and which

03:13are working as destabilizers in Sudan at this moment. So I realize I didn't answer your Congo

03:21part of the question, but let me answer this so it doesn't look like I'm dodging that and can come up

03:24to the question or whichever preference of sequence. Yeah, go ahead. Okay. Synthesize

03:29them if you like, but please do get to the question about stabilizers and destabilizers.

03:35So in terms of lessons from the Democratic Republic of Congo, I'll tell you a negative

03:40lesson and a positive lesson. I have said that this conflict is starting to look too much like

03:46the DRC in the 90s in the sense that you have many ethnic populations inside Sudan that also

03:52overlap with populations in neighboring countries. And it's quite easy as this conflict becomes more

03:57ethnic and polarized in nature that it's harder and harder for neighboring countries not to be

04:01pulled in either directly into the fighting or facing destabilizing elements in their own

04:07country. So I think one lesson is that we need to end this before we get to a point where we are

04:14into not a two-sided war, but something that could become a seven, eight, nine-sided war.

04:18And related to that, I think it's going to be very important that we have a medium-term future

04:24for those who are currently fighting. For some, that will be an integration into the professional

04:29military. For others, we know that if we can find the kind of economic opportunities that

04:34make people feel invested in a future Sudan, a stronger, more democratic Sudan, that that is

04:41going to be a much more promising path forward than if people feel like they primarily want to

04:47continue to identify with their armed affiliations as we've seen in the DRC. In this case, I think

04:54we've seen many of the countries across Africa, from Kenya up to Egypt, be very constructive in

05:01reinforcing the importance of ending the war. Those that share a border with the country,

05:07I think, have been able to communicate, not just to each other, but to golf actors and others,

05:13that this war could consume everybody. So in addition, again, to the kind of humanitarian

05:18and human rights arguments we've made about the need to stop this war, I think there's been a

05:22very strong realpolitik, you know, pro-stability argument that has come from many of the actors.

05:29I think we're seeing the African Union and IGAD play a very constructive role in trying to ensure

05:34that there is the proper multilateral and African leadership on calling for that.

05:39We appreciate that the Saudis have agreed to host talks, and not just host talks, but have a more

05:44inclusive set of co-facilitators that we think collectively has enough leverage to compel the

05:50two sides to act. And we are hoping that we lock in the further details for those talks

05:57as we go forward. As I said, we've seen some actions from the United Nations that are positive

06:03in terms of the Ramadan ceasefire resolution, even though it was not respected, was at least

06:07a step toward showing that the UN is taking this more seriously, as was the expert panel.

06:13We certainly have felt like a number of countries in the region have been pouring fuel on the fire

06:19at key areas. Certainly there's been documentation in terms of the UAE's role, but also the question

06:25about Iran and open source reporting in other areas. And we think that this is, it's very

06:31important that people understand this not as an opportunity to try to drive wedges and fissures,

06:38but to try to be part of a peace process. You mentioned the UAE. What is, what's

06:43motivating their interest in this situation? Well, we can take that up, but I think what I'll

06:50say is what should be motivating them is that destabilizing Sudan will be something that has

06:58very negative repercussions for the region, and even for how they, their interest in the region,

07:06including what we've seen as an increase in some of the Islamist extremist elements that like to

07:11take advantage of a fractured or failing state. And we think it's important to understand that

07:16there will be growing consequences for the atrocities of the RSF and those who have been

07:22connected to them in terms of their motivations more broadly. We can talk about that or our

07:28opinions of that going forward, but I think what's clear is they have committed to the peace talks.

07:34They have committed to negotiating in good faith, and we believe that we can get to a point

07:40where we can be partners in a peaceful resolution in Sudan. You don't want to offer

07:44an assessment of their motivation today? I would say beyond the fact that, you know, we understand

07:53that everyone in the region has interests in the stability of the port and the economic development

08:00of the country. I think people probably have different versions of how that motivates them,

08:05but I think that what's clear is none of those things are well served by a protracted war,

08:10and therefore we need to make sure, and I think this is getting through to a number of key actors,

08:16that everybody can benefit from a stable Sudan and nobody gains,

08:19other than the extremists, from it falling apart.

08:23Thank you very much for your work and to members of your team. Mr. Perriello.

Special Envoy Warns Todd Young About Countries ‘Pouring Fuel On The Fire’ Amid Crisis In Sudan

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