Sparks Fly When Kennedy Questions Judge About Support For Housing Trans Inmate In Women's Prison

5 months ago

At a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing, Sen. John Kennedy (R-LA) questioned Sarah Netburn, nominee to be United States District Judge for the Southern District of New York, about her record with a transgender inmate.

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Transcript

00:00 Thank you, Madam Chair.

00:11 Judge Dixon, can you tell me about the full faith and credit clause of the

00:16 Constitution?

00:17 [Judge Dixon] It's me, Senator Kennedy.

00:20 Judge Valenzuela.

00:21 [Judge Kennedy] I'm sorry.

00:22 I can't see that far.

00:23 I just got new glasses.

00:24 Judge, down here and then we'll come this way.

00:25 [Judge Valenzuela] Judge, I'm sorry.

00:26 I can't see that far.

00:27 I just got new glasses.

00:28 Judge, down here and then we'll come this way.

00:29 I just got new glasses.

00:30 Judge, down here and then we'll come this way.

00:31 Judge, down here and then we'll come this way.

00:32 Judge, down here and then we'll come this way.

00:33 Judge, down here and then we'll come this way.

00:34 Judge, down here and then we'll come this way.

00:35 Judge, down here and then we'll come this way.

00:36 Judge, down here and then we'll come this way.

00:37 Judge, down here and then we'll come this way.

00:38 Judge, down here and then we'll come this way.

00:39 Judge, down here and then we'll come this way.

00:40 Judge, down here and then we'll come this way.

00:41 Judge, down here and then we'll come this way.

00:42 Judge, down here and then we'll come this way.

00:43 Judge, down here and then we'll come this way.

00:44 Judge, down here and then we'll come this way.

00:45 Judge, down here and then we'll come this way.

01:09 And you've worked for the Brennan Center?

01:14 I interned.

01:15 I was a law student intern.

01:18 And you worked for the Center for Reproductive Law and Policy?

01:22 I was a law student intern there for eight weeks during my 1L summer.

01:26 And you are a political activist, aren't you?

01:29 I am not.

01:30 I'm a sitting United States magistrate judge.

01:35 Do you remember an inmate named William McClain, also known as July Justine Shelby?

01:42 Yes, I know who you're referring to.

01:46 Mr. McClain raped a child, didn't he?

01:53 Thirty years ago, the petitioner in the habeas case before me . . .

01:57 Did he rape a child?

01:59 He pled guilty to that crime, yes.

02:01 It's appointed.

02:02 And then he raped a 17 . . . he raped a little boy, right?

02:05 I believe that's correct.

02:07 I believe he pled guilty to two acts of sexual violence.

02:10 And then he raped a 17-year-old girl, right?

02:14 Again, this case was handled by the state court in Indiana, but I believe . . .

02:18 I'm just asking you the facts.

02:20 Don't stall on me now.

02:22 Did he rape a 17-year-old girl or not after raping a 9-year-old boy?

02:26 I believe that's what he pled guilty to.

02:28 Okay, and then he went to prison, didn't he?

02:31 Yes.

02:32 And then he came out and he sent child porn, basically adults raping little children, to

02:42 another sex offender.

02:44 And he was sent back to prison, right?

02:47 The petitioner pled guilty to . . .

02:49 Was he sent back to prison?

02:51 Well, that case was in the federal system, so . . .

02:54 Was he sent back to prison?

02:55 Yes, this time to federal prison.

02:57 Thank you.

02:58 And then he decided to transition and he became a female and started going by July

03:06 Justine Shelby.

03:08 Is that right?

03:10 Yes.

03:11 And Ms. Shelby said, "I don't want to go to a male prison.

03:15 I want to go to a female prison."

03:19 And the Board of Prisons said, "What planet did you parachute in from?

03:25 You're going to a male prison with this kind of record?"

03:28 And you sent him to a female prison, didn't you?

03:32 You said that the Board of Prisons was trying to violate Ms. Shelby, former Mr. McLean's

03:41 constitutional rights, didn't you?

03:44 I issued a report and recommendation to the district judge recommending that the district

03:49 judge transfer the petitioner to a women's facility.

03:53 The district judge adopted that recommendation.

03:55 You said the Board of Prisons was trying to violate Ms. Shelby's, Mr. McLean's constitutional

04:02 rights, didn't you?

04:03 So I based my decision on the facts that were presented to me in the record evidence.

04:07 But it wasn't that you're ruling?

04:10 I recommended finding that under Estelle v. Gamble . . .

04:13 Why won't you admit that was your ruling?

04:15 Are you ashamed of it?

04:16 I'm not.

04:17 I'm answering the question.

04:18 I applied Estelle v. Gamble . . .

04:19 But was that your ruling?

04:21 My recommendation was that the petitioner's serious medical needs were being denied by

04:26 keeping her in a men's facility.

04:27 A violation of the Eighth Amendment, right?

04:29 That's correct.

04:30 Okay.

04:31 And how big was Ms. Shelby, Mr. McLean?

04:38 I don't have a specific recollection.

04:40 Your colleague just suggested that she was more than six feet tall.

04:44 And you told the Board of Prisons, "Well, she'll be okay.

04:49 The other women in the female prison will be okay because it's only hypothetical that

04:55 Ms. Shelby, Mr. McLean would re-offend again after he's already raped a nine-year-old boy

05:03 and a 17-year-old girl and has been sending child porn through the mail."

05:07 You said, "There's no chance he'll re-offend again."

05:11 Did you say that?

05:12 Senator Kennedy, I based my decision on the record evidence . . .

05:15 But am I right?

05:16 Did you conclude that?

05:18 I don't have a specific recollection of that.

05:20 I did recommend that after finding a constitutional violation . . .

05:25 What were you thinking in saying there's no . . . it's only hypothetical that she would

05:31 re-offend?

05:33 The facts of the case were that the petitioner had last engaged in a contact offense 30 years

05:40 ago.

05:41 The petitioner had not engaged in any contact offense.

05:44 In addition, the medical evidence made clear that for the last five years, the petitioner

05:49 was sober and hormonally entirely a female and there was no evidence . . .

05:54 The Board of Prisons didn't agree with you.

05:56 I'm going to run out of time here.

05:59 You're really a political activist, aren't you?

06:02 I am not, sir.

06:03 But your record demonstrates otherwise.

06:06 I disagree.

06:07 I apply the law to the facts and come to a fair decision.

06:10 All of my decisions that have been appealed, particularly this one, the district judge

06:15 adopted my report and recommendation in full and the government did not move for a stay

06:20 of the decision.

06:21 >> Senator Cruz.

Sparks Fly When Kennedy Questions Judge About Support For Housing Trans Inmate In Women's Prison

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