Recently discovered Spanish military memoirs reveal that after Filipino revolutionary troops defeated the Spanish colonial army in 1898, the Filipinos treated their prisoners of war with honor.
According to the newly translated and published memoirs of Spanish military doctor Dr. Santos Rubiano, they were detained in the homes of wealthy Filipinos in Batangas, fed well and freed a little more than a year later.
The revealing memoirs were recently found and translated by a young historian, Renz Katigbak, a Filipino immigrant to the US who learned Spanish so he could research obscure texts in the archives of Spain.
Howie Severino talks to Renz about what the Spanish account adds to our knowledge of the period and how he stumbled on the Rubiano memoirs, which have never been mentioned in history books.
According to the newly translated and published memoirs of Spanish military doctor Dr. Santos Rubiano, they were detained in the homes of wealthy Filipinos in Batangas, fed well and freed a little more than a year later.
The revealing memoirs were recently found and translated by a young historian, Renz Katigbak, a Filipino immigrant to the US who learned Spanish so he could research obscure texts in the archives of Spain.
Howie Severino talks to Renz about what the Spanish account adds to our knowledge of the period and how he stumbled on the Rubiano memoirs, which have never been mentioned in history books.
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00:00Magandang araw, podmates, and happy Philippine Independence Day!
00:04Si Howie Severino muli, na nagpapaalala na nakakatalino ang mahabang attention span.
00:10Tuwing Hunyo, ginugunitan natin ang kasaysayan, lalo na ang kaganapan noong Hunyo, 1898,
00:16ng magtagumpay ang mga Pilipinong revolusionaryo laban sa mga Kastila sa maraming bahagi ng bansa.
00:23Kadalasan si General Emilio Aguinaldo ang usapin,
00:26dahil sa pagdeklara niya ng kalayaan ng Pilipinas noong June 12, 1898, sa Kawit-Kabite.
00:33Ngunit, niningit sa kaalaman ng marami, matindi ang laban sa Patangas at marami pang probinsya.
00:39Ang guest natin ngayon ay isang batang historiador, si Renz Katibak,
00:44na nagsasaliksik tungkol sa kasaysayan ng kanyang bayan ng Lipah, Patangas.
00:49May sinulat siyang libro na lalabas sa buwang ito tungkol sa tagumpay ng mga Pilipinong sa Lipah.
00:55Ayon sa memoirs ng isang Kastilang doktor sa hubo ng mga Kastila.
01:00Nag-aral pa si Renz ng Espanyol upang mabasa mga dokumento noong panahon yun.
01:06Kasama niya sa pagbuo ng libro ay si Dr. Manuel Pajarillo,
01:10tanyag na researcher at Lasal brother at dating presidente ng De La Sal Lipah.
01:1634 anos lang si Renz at isang empleyado sa San Francisco, California.
01:22Renz, welcome to my podcast and congratulations sa inyong bagong libro,
01:27Memoirs of a Prisoner of the Tagalogs.
01:30Magandang umaga din po Sir Howie.
01:32Una Renz, nais kong tanungin, paano binago ang iyong pananaw sa ating kasaysayan ng pagsulat ng librong ito?
01:41For me po, it really changed my perspective about the Philippine Revolution.
01:46Kasi nga, akala ko nga din it was a failure.
01:49But it actually, para sa akin, siya yung nagsimula nung pagkaroon ng nasyonalismo nating mga Filipino.
01:57Why do you say that? Bakit siya yung nagsimula ng nasyonalismo ng Pilipinas in 1898?
02:03Dito po kasi natin parang una tinag-isolate natin ng mga Filipino kasi.
02:08Kasi noon una parang mayroon mga racial classification.
02:11Lalo na nung gumagawa pa ako ng family case noon.
02:14So nag-research ako noon, tapos nababasa ko doon sa mga entries na lagi mayroon racial classification yung mga Filipino as Indios.
02:22Tapos nung nagkaroon na ng revolution, we called ourselves as Filipinos na.
02:28Okay. The event that is the focus of the book has been called the passage.
02:35It's rarely mentioned in history books and pag binabanggit yan ay pahapyaw lang.
02:43But we know that it was more than a siege. It was also gunfights in the streets, house-to-house combat, my casualties.
02:50It was actually a bloody event. It was dramatic. It was a dramatic episode in our history.
02:55Almost cinematic.
02:59How much of this did you know about before you found this book?
03:04And what did it add to our knowledge about this historical event?
03:09Actually, yung pong siege of Lipa, I already read it sa isang article ni Tita Praci Villa do sa libro niya na Peaks and Valleys, The Story of Lipa.
03:21But it wasn't elaborately detailed, yung significance ng mga events na yun.
03:26And nalaman ko rin po na yung mga dating pangalan ng kalya sa Lipa.
03:33One of the principal streets were called Kalya 7 de Junio and then Kalya 18 de Junio,
03:39which were the dates of the first day of the siege, which was Kalya 7 de Junio.
03:46And then yung 18 de Junio was the day of surrender.
03:50I was curious to know more about these events.
03:54Nakabasa ko rin po yung about the siege dun sa Aid to Captive Freedom ni Teodoro M. Calo.
04:01Yung autobiography niya lang.
04:04So yun pala po yung mga sources ko about the siege of Lipa until I discovered itong kay Dr. Santos Rubiano sometime in late 2018 or early 2019.
04:15Okay, I'm going to ask you how you discovered the memoirs.
04:19Spanish language, so you had to learn Spanish before you could read it.
04:23But before I ask you about how you discovered it, I want to ask you more about this particular event.
04:30Kasi nga itong mga nabanggit mo ng mga accounts like TM Kalaw and this coffee table book that was produced at Lipa.
04:38Of course, these were from the point of view of the Filipinos.
04:42What makes this different, this memoir that you translated, these are the memoirs of a Spaniard who was a doctor in the Spanish Army
04:54and was among the forces that were besieged in the Cathedral and Convento ng Lipa, si Dr. Santos Rubiano Herrera.
05:05I read the book even earlier than your draft. May initial translation ito.
05:11It's really a dramatic account and he's actually a pretty good writer din.
05:17Very lyrical. He's quite reflective.
05:20But at the same time, he describes the events and what he did as a doctor with a lot of surgical precision.
05:32So, ano yung significance ng actual event na ito?
05:39Why is it important to know more about the siege of Lipa?
05:43Para sakin po, yung significance niya nga kasi is ito po yung nagbigay daan sa pagpapalaya ng iba pang mga towns going further south ng Lipa.
05:57And even yung other towns in southern Luzon.
06:02So, yung mga weapons na nasurrender ng mga Espanyol dito sa Lipa were used in those other towns.
06:10Yung mga other expeditions in those towns. Philippine Revolutionary Expedition sa mga lugar na yun.
06:16So, itong si Dr. Santos Rubiano Herrera, you found out na kakilala niya pala mga ninuno mo.
06:28Tell us about that. That's an interesting personal discovery on your part.
06:33Na may personal connection ka pala dito sa takong ito.
06:37Na kalkal mo yung memoirs niya doon sa archives ng Spain. Tapos na meron kang natuklasan na personal connections sa kanya.
06:49Actually, opo. Before pa po siya napunta sa Lipa, naging interino medico titular ng Bulacan.
06:59My grandmother po kasi, Luz Tiongzon, was from Malolos.
07:04So, yung grandfather niya, si Don Ponciano na Hues de Paz ng Malolos, in 1894 to 1896, naging kaibigan po pala niya si Dr. Rubiano.
07:17When he was assigned…
07:19And during Dr. Rubiano, you mentioned his title. But the equivalent today would be like…
07:24Sorry, that would be a provincial health officer.
07:27Provincial health officer.
07:29Of Bulacan, yes. Of Bulacan, sorry.
07:31Yung pong interino medico titular is interim provincial health officer.
07:40Yun po yung translation niya into English.
07:43So, na-assigned po siya sa Bulacan sometime in 1895.
07:47So, naging kaibigan po niya si… yung aking great-great-grandfather na si Don Ponciano Tiongzon.
07:55Tapos nakita ko po do sa baptismal record nung isa po sa mga great-granduncle ko, na kapatid nung great-grandfather ko,
08:04na naging nginong niya po si Dr. Santos Rubiano, pati yung mother ni Dr. Santos, kasama dun do sa baptismal register ni Lolo Federico.
08:14In other words, mga Kastila ito, they were with the colonial authorities.
08:19He was a medical officer in the Spanish colonial government.
08:24But he had close friends.
08:26Naging ninong pa siya ng iyong ninuno na native ng Bulacan.
08:32So, ito mga Kastila na ito na naging kalaban ng mga Pilipino,
08:35hindi ito basta mga dayo na biglang dumating sa Pilipinas,
08:41katulad ng Amerikano o Japon na nakipagpatayaan sa mga Pilipino.
08:45Si Dr. Rubiano had close personal relationships with native Filipinos.
08:52And in fact, it's an indication of their respect and regard for him
08:57that one of your ancestors was named after him, yung Santos, dun sa kanyang pangalan.
09:05Federico Santos.
09:06So, named after Dr. Rubiano.
09:10Actually, kasi ayun nga pala banggit nyo na naging close sa mga natives.
09:15Kasi dito po siya nag-aral sa Pilipinas, si Dr. Santos Rubiano.
09:19So, po niya na-obtain yung kanyang MD, yung doctor degree niya po in medicine and surgery.
09:26So, he was educated here. He spent his career as a young physician here.
09:33Because we have to remember, in 1898, he was still in his 20s, right? Late 20s?
09:38Yes.
09:3927, 28, no? Nung nagganap yung lipasig. So, he was a young doctor, no?
09:45Young doctor.
09:46Just a few years out of medical school, no? And he knew a lot of Filipinos already.
09:54So, that by itself already changes, influences our view of the Spanish who were fighting the Filipinos.
10:02Akala natin talagang mga mortal enemies lang yan.
10:06We have to recall that the Spaniards were here already for almost 400 years when the revolution broke out.
10:15So, there are all kinds of personal connections and relationships.
10:19Atindi lang naman lahat ay masasama, no?
10:22Kasi baka iniisip ng maraming Pilipino na halimbawa lahat ng Kastila noon parang si Padre Damaso, diba? Na kontrabida, no?
10:33But there were also people like Dr. Rubiano who served the public, the Filipino public, no?
10:40So, hindi lang naman ng mga Kastila siya nagdo-doktor, no? I mean, doktor siya ng madla, right?
10:45Yes. Kaya po siya naging provincial health officer po ng Malolos Bulacan.
10:52The siege of Lipa became a major revolutionary victory.
10:59What was Lipa in those days? 1898, no?
11:03It was a significant place in the Philippines.
11:07Yes, because it was pa dating coffee producing town.
11:12It was considered the richest town in the Philippines during the late 19th century because of the coffee boom.
11:18Pero nga, short-lived lang yung coffee boom kasi by 1889, it started to collapse, yung coffee industry.
11:27But still, Lipa maintained its prestige as a rich town despite the challenges of that period.
11:37After the coffee blight, they shifted to abaca production and sugar.
11:43So, madali na po sila naka-recover. Hindi naman madali, pero naka-recover naman sila from the losses of the coffee blight.
11:54So, basically, culturally, Lipa was a very enterprising town.
12:02Very business-minded people tulad yan.
12:05Naka-shift dun sa ibang produkto para tuloy-tuloy pa rin yung kanilang enterprises from coffee to abaca and sugar.
12:17Yung isang outcome nitong yaman nila is nakapagpaarad sila.
12:22Yung mga pamily na sa Lipa.
12:24Sa Maynila, sa Europa, naging mga malalapit na kaibigan ni Jose Rizal, kasama sa mga founding fathers.
12:33Nakapagtatag na mga gyaryo, naging mga professionals, mga lipenyo.
12:43So, it was an intellectual center.
12:46Yung mga ilustrados nga po, yung nabanggit niyo.
12:50Yes, ilustrados.
12:51And yung ilustrados na kilala natin sa kazaysayan, they were also revolutionaries and they were thinkers.
12:58They were enlightenment thinkers who were thinking about concepts like freedom and sovereignty and individual rights and separation of church and state and women's rights and women's suffrage and all of that.
13:15These concepts that we take for granted today, noon, they were considered radical ideas.
13:23And then they were able to learn these ideas because nakapag-aral sila at nakapag-aral sila dahil umaman ng Lipa, dahil sa kanya mga produkto.
13:33Obviously, Lipa was a strategic center.
13:38Hindi lang dahil mayaman sila, but it's also because of its location.
13:43So, itong mga Kastila, they made Lipa a major detachment.
13:50Headquarters.
13:51Yeah, headquarters. So, ano yung mga naganap? Bakit man nagkaroon ng siege sa Lipa?
13:58Noong 1898, ito yung headquarters ni Coronel Juan Rodriguez Navas.
14:04So, siya po yung parang highest Spanish authority during, in the Southern Tagalog Command.
14:12Based on what I read in the memoirs of Dr. Rubiano is nagimagsik na yung mga Pilipino.
14:20So, in part of the context of this is the Spanish-American War.
14:27May digmaan na sa pagitan ng Spain atsaka America, which was a rising power in the world at that time.
14:34This is 1898.
14:37So, and by June, noong naganap itong Lipa Si, June 1898, nangyari na yung Battle of Manila Bay,
14:48kung saan napalubog o pinalubog yung halos buong armada ng Spanish warships sa Manila Bay ng mga Amerikano.
14:57So, kumbaga, ano na, medyo nagre-retreat na yung mga Kastila, no?
15:06And lumakas ang loob ng mga Pilipino, kaya naguuwian galing sa Hong Kong.
15:12And biglang lumaban na ulit yung mga revolutionaryo sa maraming bahagi ng Pilipinas.
15:23Yung mga Kastila sa Lipa, as mentioned in the book, they were trying to figure out what to do.
15:30So, itong grupo nila, Dr. Rubiano, they attended a war council in Santo Tomas,
15:37and they decided to go back to head towards Batangas City, pero dadaan muna ng Lipa.
15:43Dadaan muna yung puwesta ng Lipa.
15:45It was actually a large number of Spanish soldiers that were marching to Batangas City,
15:49but they stopped in Lipa to rest. Mga ilang sundalo yun yung tumigil sa Lipa.
15:56May mga accounts po kasi, wala pong specific, pero ang account po ni Comandante Francisco Varadere,
16:04siya po yung second-in-command to Colonel Navas, about 400 soldiers yung pong nag-concentrate sa Lipa.
16:17400 soldiers, and they were mostly in the convento and the castidra.
16:26So, nakisik-sik sila doon, but may mga nag-occupy din ng mga surrounding houses, diba?
16:32Yes. So, there was a house-to-house combat po na nangyari.
16:35Hindi lang po sa Church Plaza, nagkaroon ng hostilities, but also in the houses in Lipa.
16:45So, they occupied the side where the church is. Yung mga bahay na nando sa hilera po ng simbahan.
16:53Okay, I want to ask though, itong estimated 400 troops ng mga Castilla, lahat ba ito ay Spanish people?
17:06Alam ko, there were native soldiers in the Spanish Army.
17:10They were considered part of the militia. They were members of the militia na binigyan din ang armas para dipensahan ang Spanish interests in the Philippines.
17:19Doon sa 400 na yan, may mga native Filipinos doon.
17:24Possible po may mga loyalists pa rin sa Filipino militia soldiers nandun na kakipaglaban against the Filipino revolutionaries.
17:35Pero ang pagka alam natin, dahil nga medyo natatalo na yung Spain, atsaka nandiyan na yung mga Amerikano,
17:44maraming natibong sundalo, mga native soldiers sa Spanish militia, ang bumaliktad, diba?
17:53They defected po.
17:54Oo, they defected. Daladala na yung mga armas nila at sumama doon sa puwersa nila, General Emilio Aguinaldo.
18:03But there's an important person who was part of the Filipino forces in Lipa.
18:09And this was General Paciano Rizal, who was the kuya of Jose Rizal, who was dead by this time.
18:17Of course, Jose Rizal was executed in 1896. This is June 1898.
18:24Pero medyo sariwa pa yung pagkamatay ni Jose Rizal dito.
18:27And alam ko, he was an inspiration for many of the revolutionaries.
18:31And of course, his kuya, General Paciano Rizal.
18:35Si Paciano Rizal was not a native of Lipa, no? Paso, paano siya napasama dito sa siege of Lipa?
18:41Siya po kasi yung nag-initiate nung atake sa mga Espanyol on June 7, po.
18:49He initiated. So yung atake, it happened in the streets, right?
18:53So in other words, nakapuesto na si Paciano Rizal sa Lipa.
18:57Sila yung nag-impede sa mga Spanish forces marching their way to Batangas.
19:04And ano naman yung papel ni General Paciano at this time?
19:09He was a general in the Philippine Army. Hindi na ito katipunan, right?
19:12Just to clarify, natapos na yung katipunan nung 1897 dahil nga nagkaroon ng ceasefire, etc.
19:22And dapat nga may disarmament pa, diba?
19:26And then, nung bumalik, ano na to, Philippine Army na!
19:30Kasi nagdeklara na ng independence, no? Si Aguinaldo. So this is the Philippine Army.
19:35To be exact, ang tawag po sa kanila is Filipino Liberating Army na po ito.
19:41Hindi nga revolutionary.
19:44So sa mga nakita kong documents po, yung sa archival documents,
19:47ang nakalagay po is it's stated as Philippine Liberating Army.
19:51Sito Libertador. Yung na po yung nakalagay sa mga stamps, sa mga documents, sa mga seals.
20:01Hindi revolucionaryo eh.
20:03Yes. Okay. So si General Paciano Rizal, the Rizals were originally from Calamba.
20:09Alam ko na na-evict sila doon, ano? Nung early 1890s.
20:15Or maybe even earlier, no?
20:17But he became a general in the Katipunan, no?
20:24Pero hindi siya sumama kay Emilio Aguinaldo sa Hong Kong in exile. He stayed.
20:31He was in charge of a, what? A battalion? Ano ba ang papel niya noon?
20:39So general po, so that means siya po yung commander-in-chief ng mga puwersa, yung Liberating Army na yun, within that region.
20:50So essentially, the Spanish troops were on their way to Batangas City,
20:56and then, kumbaga, na-ambush sila ng mga puwersa ni General Paciano Rizal sa Lipa.
21:02So, nag-retreat itong mga kasimbahan ng katedral, which is still standing today.
21:09And the convento, which is still standing today. Kasi ang dami nila, 400.
21:14May mga wounded pa sila, no? May mga wounded.
21:17At kasama dito, si Dr. Santos Rubiano, who was their doctor, no?
21:24And then, doon sa memoir si Dr. Rubiano, no?
21:26So they, he would describe in very graphic detail yung hardship nila sa loob, the fear, the desperation, the bloodshed, no?
21:37Kasi yung kanilang commander, si Colonel Navas, the overall commander of the Spanish troops there, whom you mentioned,
21:46he was looking out of the window of the church tower nung tinamaan siya ng sniper.
21:53ng Pilipino.
21:54Diba tinamaan siya?
21:55So he was wounded.
21:57Wounded po, opo.
21:58Yeah.
21:59And Dr. Rubiano described in his memoirs how he had to amputate the arm of his commander, no?
22:08Si Dr. Navas, no?
22:10Wow, that's a pretty harrowing kind of war story, no?
22:16I mean, gosh, it's horrifying to imagine it, no?
22:22In the middle of a battle like that, the life of your commander is in your hands
22:30and you have to amputate his arm without the benefit of an operating room and nurses.
22:37May may anesthesia ba sila noon?
22:40I mean, grabe yun.
22:42Basta nilagarin na lang yung arm.
22:45Obviously, nabuhay si Colonel Navas, no?
22:49And it was not the only amputation done by Dr. Rubiano at that time.
22:54There was a previous amputation that he did of a leg of one of the wounded soldiers, no?
22:59But what do you know about how Dr. Rubiano treated his patients?
23:07They turned the cathedral into a hospital or infirmary at that time, right?
23:12Siguro, may may experiences na po siya kasi siya dahil isa nga siyang surgeon.
23:18And then, I think before they re-concentrated, they already had medical supplies.
23:26And at the same time, nanguha pa rin sila before they marched to Batangas.
23:31Sa mga stores sa Lipa.
23:33Nang mga medical supplies din po.
23:36And their food as well.
23:38Okay, so they went through all of that.
23:40And eventually, they realized that they were isolated.
23:44They were running out of food.
23:46I'm sure they were running out of water.
23:49Ang dami nilang wounded. May mga namatay.
23:52They didn't expect reinforcement soon.
23:55So, they decided they had to surrender.
24:00Yes.
24:01And it was also raining at the same time.
24:04So, marami pong nagkakasakit na mga sundalo.
24:07So, yun.
24:09That also diminished the numbers of people who were battling against the revolutionaries.
24:15Terrible, terrible conditions, no?
24:17So, okay.
24:18But during this time, so it was an 11-day siege.
24:22Anong ginagawa ng mga Pilipino naman, mga Tigalipa?
24:25So, yung iba po, nagtago sa ano nila, sa mga…
24:28Siyempre, yung mga elite, they had their farms.
24:31So, dun po, mostly nagtago yung mga Tigalipa.
24:35Meron lang po ako na-research na isang prominent na Filipeno, si Pastor Mayo, who was also in the battlefield.
24:45And Don Valerio Calo, who was there during the first siege, and he was wounded.
24:51He was the last kapitan munisipal during the Spanish era.
24:56During the Spanish period, no?
24:58Valerio Calo, of course, is the father of Teodoro M. Calo, who was more famous.
25:03And he was alive at that time, si T.M. Calo.
25:06Everyone knows T.M. Calo Street, sa Mayloneta, sa Manila.
25:11And there are other Calo streets in other parts of the Philippines.
25:15Pero ang tatay ni T.M. Calo was a revolutionary hero, si Valerio Calo.
25:20He was the last mayor of Lipa during the Spanish regime.
25:24But at the same time, he was a frontline kombatan.
25:28He was wounded.
25:29I remember reading a biography of T.M. Calo by T.M. Calo's daughter.
25:36You actually gave me that copy.
25:38And it described Valerio Calo as going home to his family in the evening, but then during the day, he would leave and fight.
25:47He would fight.
25:48He would leave on his horse.
25:50So he was actually leading local troops.
25:52So hindi lang ito mga dayo, katulad ni General Paciano Rizal and his troops,
25:56who came from perhaps other parts of the province or southern Tagalog,
26:01pero may mga locals ng Tagalipa na lumaban din at may mga nagbuwis ng buhay.
26:08Yes, po.
26:09And there was also itong si Gregorio Aguilera Solis, who was with Rizal in Spain.
26:15He also wanted to join yung mga revolutionaries, pero parang pinigilan siya ng asawan niya.
26:21So it's sa mga accounts na nabasa ko.
26:24You know, the first time I read about this incident, itong Lipa siege,
26:28was in the book Battle for Batangas by the historian Glenn May.
26:33Pero pahapyao lang, no? Maiksi lang.
26:36Pero ang source niya dun, yung libro ni T.M. Calo, yung Aid to Freedom, no?
26:42Memoirs ni T.M. Calo.
26:44So there's more of it there, no?
26:46Pero yung mga accounts nila seemed to be parang a bit romanticized.
26:53I don't know if you agree.
26:55Yeah, kasi parang ang naalala ko yung description nila was,
27:01it was like a bloodless revolution na naglabasan niya mga civilians
27:06para supportahan ng mga sundalo ng Pilipino, etc.
27:11And, you know, there was a happy ending.
27:14But you didn't really read about, you know, how bloody it was,
27:18itong mga amputation, yung house-to-house combat.
27:24Walang ganun binanggit.
27:26Mostly puro, yun nga, it's really romanticized.
27:30Walang, it wasn't given much detail.
27:35So, Siting Ko, this is a significance of what you did,
27:40translating the Spanish-language memoirs of an insider,
27:45of a participant in the siege on the other side,
27:48on the losing side of the Spanish Army, no?
27:53And the memoirs are in such granular detail, you know,
27:59down to medical descriptions of the wounds of some of the casualties, no?
28:07Because he's a doctor, so this is part of it.
28:10Very descriptive.
28:11Very descriptive, and some of it seemed like a medical report,
28:15which is valuable for history, for researchers.
28:22Yes, ang daming substance.
28:24At the same time, he could be quite lyrical, itong si Dr. Rubiano.
28:28He would describe what he was imagining, his fears.
28:36He could also be emotional, di ba?
28:39May pagka-romantiko din itong si Dr. Rubiano, di ba?
28:42About the honor of soldiers and all of that.
28:48Which brings me to a point, no?
28:51Itong mga Filipino accounts, there aren't too many.
28:55We just mentioned two, no?
28:57Yung kay T.M. Kalaw, and then of course yung kay Glenn May,
29:02who quotes T.M. Kalaw mostly, no?
29:06They're from the Filipino side, but very superficial, no?
29:11Wala bang memoirs yung mga Pilipino participant dito
29:16to give it more balance, to add to what we know,
29:21aside from what this book, your book, is already presenting.
29:27May nakita po ako sa other sources,
29:30pero isa po yun sa mga nasunog na mga documents
29:36sa yung private library ni Theodore M. Kalaw in Manila.
29:41So isa po yun sa mga nawala during the Second World War.
29:45Mostly mga accounts of Lipeños on the siege of Lipa.
29:49I wanna move on, no, and ask you about
29:53one of the more significant aspects of this historical episode,
29:58which is also described in the book,
30:02which is the chivalry and honor
30:08that Dr. Rubiano described
30:13and which both sides seem to show, no?
30:19Kasi nagpapatayin itong dalawang panig,
30:21but at the same time, there was a kind of chivalry
30:28and honor between enemies, no?
30:31Parang, you know, there was no account of torture
30:36or mistreatment of prisoners.
30:39Kasi nung nag-surrender itong mga Kastila noong June 18, 1898,
30:46piniyagan sila mag-marcha palabas, no, na information.
30:51Of course, kinuha yung mga bala nila,
30:53but para hindi sila makalabas.
30:55Pero parin sila ng mga weapons na dala,
30:57pero ano na siya, parang wala nung bala,
30:59tapos tinanggal na yung mga blades dun sa weapon nila.
31:03Sa bayonets.
31:04In other words, they were allowed to surrender
31:07and exit the convento and church with their heads high,
31:13with honor, no?
31:16In other words, nirespeto sila ng winning side,
31:19yung mga Filipino revolutionaries, no?
31:22Hindi sila pinagbabatok, di ba?
31:27Atsaka may orders na...
31:29Yung violence.
31:31May orders na tratuhin ng mabuti.
31:34Na huwag ipihin itong mga Kastila, etc., no?
31:39At the same time, I noticed that there was a line in the book
31:47where Dr. Rubiano was talking about how Colonel Navas
31:53was never tempted to do really brutal tactics, no?
32:05Because of what he called a medieval chivalry.
32:09Kasi halimbawa, it was mentioned there by Dr. Rubiano
32:15na hindi ginawa nila yung mga ginawa ng Amerikano
32:18just a few years later, di ba?
32:21Na scorched earth tactics sa bulakan.
32:25Kasi sabi ni Dr. Rubiano, kaya nilang sunugin yung lipa, di ba?
32:31They could have burned all the houses around the church
32:36para hindi na makalapit halimbawa yung mga revolutionaryo.
32:39Pwede nilang patayin yung mga sibilyan, etc., no?
32:42But hindi nila ginawa out of a sense of chivalry, no?
32:48Anong thoughts mo do? Anong take mo do?
32:50Tama ba yung sinasabi ko?
32:53Tama po. My thoughts, there's honor in their work.
32:59Meron silang military honor na sinusod po kasi.
33:03So they respected both parties in that sense.
33:09Yeah, I noticed that, I noted that in your footnotes
33:15which you and Dr. Pajarillo, your co-author, wrote, no?
33:20Parang you had extensive annotations in this book.
33:25You developed that point about the Spaniards in Lipa
33:33not employing US-style ruthless tactics.
33:40And compared it to what the US did in places like Samar
33:46where there was the howling wilderness where US troops
33:50in retaliation for an ambush by Filipinos killed so many children
33:55and civilians, no?
33:57And what the US did in Batangas itself
34:00when the US was trying to pacify the Filipinos, no?
34:05Parang pati mga kalabaw pinatay para hindi na makasaka
34:08para magkaroon ng starvation, no?
34:11Pinatay nila yung re-agricultural wealth ng Batangas, po.
34:16Siniraan nila.
34:17The Spaniards naman, as I mentioned earlier,
34:20hindi naman mga dayo yan, eh, no?
34:22They were already here.
34:23Tulad ng sinabi mo, si Dr. Rubiano was educated as a doctor
34:27in the Philippines, served as a doctor to Filipino civilians
34:31as opposed to the US who just sent soldiers here
34:35to pacify people they did not know, no?
34:39Ito mga Kastila, sila Colonel Navas, etc.
34:42I mean, they knew Filipinos well.
34:43They were Filipinos who were their friends.
34:45They were Filipinos who served in their army, etc.
34:49So it was probably a lot harder for them to mistreat Filipinos
34:56or to act in a barbaric way or a savage way
35:00to people whom they had known for a long time.
35:04So, yun nga po, tulad ng nasabi niyo.
35:09They really, they had connection with the Filipino people kasi.
35:13May nabasa ako do sa isang statement ni Colonel Navas
35:16na kaya naman daw nag-rebelde ang mga Filipino noon.
35:20It's because of the, they wanted to break free
35:22from the tyrannical rule of the priors.
35:25So, hindi ma lahat po talaga ng mga Kastila noon talagang masama.
35:31I mean, they were with the natives as well.
35:36So, nag-surrender itong mga Spanish troops, they came out.
35:39So, hiniwalay sila ng mga Pilipino, no?
35:46Kasi naging prisoners of war na to, no?
35:48Si Dr. Rubiano stayed in Lipa for a while, no?
35:52Atsaka, he talks about being treated quite well, no?
35:55Parang dumira pa siya sa, I mean, house arrest ito, no?
35:58Pero, dumira pa siya sa bahay ng mayaman, no?
36:02One of the nicest houses in Lipa.
36:04Exactly. So, he was under house arrest,
36:07but he was living in, kung baga, luxurious Airbnb, no?
36:12Parang ganun.
36:13Comfortable pa rin naman.
36:15So, the memoirs that you translated did not just cover the siege of Lipa,
36:21which only lasted for 11 days.
36:23You know, it covered the siege and then lasted for,
36:28you know, covered for months, even years, no?
36:33After the siege, no?
36:35Kasi it covered his experiences as a prisoner of war
36:40and then pinalaya siya after less than two years, di ba?
36:45He was under house arrest for something like, what?
36:4715 months?
36:4815 months.
36:4915 months, okay.
36:50And then it describes his journey back to Spain,
36:54but through, you know, he walked through Batangas, through Balete,
37:00I think he crossed Taal Lake, no?
37:02Taal Lake, yes. Taal Lake.
37:03Taal Lake to get to the other side and then walk up to Silang.
37:07You know, I mean, you know, reading all of this, Renz, no,
37:12made me quite sentimental and made me relate so much to the story
37:21because all of these places are very familiar to me and to you.
37:26Yes.
37:27So, this story is very much alive.
37:29You know, these places that were mentioned in the book are still named that.
37:34Banay-banay.
37:36Istiglaban.
37:38Yeah.
37:39All these places are still known by those names.
37:42Yeah, yeah.
37:43So, that also makes me sad, no, that this is not studied.
37:49All of this is barely known to Filipinos.
37:52This is not studied.
37:54I can understand if it's not studied as part of our national history,
37:58but it's not even studied in local history in Batangas or Lipa,
38:02despite its significance, despite the heroism,
38:05despite the honor and chivalry that it showed in the ancestors of people in Batangas, etc.
38:13It should be something that they should be proud of,
38:17that should be taught so that the youth of Lipa and Batangas have role models,
38:25are aware of this heritage of heroism and honor.
38:32It's inspirational.
38:33It's inspiring.
38:34In one word, I can describe it.
38:39It's an inspiring account and very interesting.
38:43Yeah, and at the same time, you cannot say that it's romanticized,
38:47like what we mentioned earlier in the other accounts.
38:51At the same time, you know, we can forgive T.M. Kalaw because he was not a combatant.
38:57He was not a participant.
38:59He was still young at that time.
39:00He was a teenager, very young.
39:03I know that he was still in school.
39:06Of course, he became a very important figure in Philippine history,
39:09but later on, at this time, he was an eyewitness,
39:12but he was not an insider like his father, Valerio.
39:17So, Dr. Rubiano does not sugarcoat the brutality of war
39:25because the two forces were shooting each other,
39:28but at the same time, he was saying,
39:31the boundaries of war were respected.
39:34They did not kill civilians.
39:39And then, when they became prisoners of war,
39:43they were respected.
39:46And when he was arrested by the Filipinos in Lipa,
39:51he was even killed in the mansion.
39:55Actually, I saw a news article here.
40:00It's a Spanish newspaper.
40:05It's called Correo de Madrid, dated August 16, 1899.
40:10It says in the article that the majority of the prisoners of war in Batangas
40:16are found in the town of Lipa,
40:19and the treatment they received here is unbeatable.
40:24Then, the soldiers with professions,
40:28they were able to utilize their skills.
40:33And then, those who were not,
40:36they even stayed at the best houses in Lipa.
40:39So, they were given jobs like cleaning,
40:42and then they were even given...
40:45Dr. Santos has an account that the other soldiers,
40:50they stayed at the house, at the farm of Doña Marcelina,
40:53and they received wages for...
40:57Because they were like boys.
41:00They worked in the fields of Doña Marcelina.
41:03Well, all the more reason why this episode should be studied closely, right, Renz?
41:08Because we know how present-day people behave, right?
41:13If you caught an enemy,
41:15it's better if that enemy is alive.
41:18If he's alive, he's usually tortured, right?
41:23If he's imprisoned, he's not respected, etc.
41:27That's how it is today.
41:31That's how many people behave in this day and age.
41:35So, there's a lot that we can learn.
41:38Oh, there's a lot that we can learn.
41:40I mean, we're talking about all sides,
41:41and we're not just talking about the Philippines, right?
41:43We're talking about what's happening in the Middle East.
41:45We're talking about what's happening in Ukraine.
41:47We're talking about, you know...
41:50And here in the Philippines as well.
41:53We hear stories of torture, of beheadings, of executions, etc., etc.
42:01Extrajudicial killings, things like that, right?
42:05It's like...
42:09The honor that these people showed in 1898
42:13is something that we don't see anymore.
42:17All the more reason we should study history.
42:19But anyway, I want to ask you now,
42:23what is the future of this book?
42:25This is going to be launched soon.
42:28The launching is scheduled on June 18.
42:31June 18, which is?
42:33The 126th anniversary of the surrender of the Spanish forces
42:38to the Filipino revolutionaries in Lipa.
42:40On June 18, aside from your book launch,
42:42there will also be a commemoration in Lipa City of the event.
42:49So, there are efforts to revive interest in this historical episode.
42:57And hopefully, your book will be used as a reference material for schools,
43:04for the study of history, the study of civica,
43:07for anyone interested in heritage and history.
43:13But back to what you mentioned earlier,
43:16because Lipeños, in those days,
43:23truly appreciated and valued what happened on June 18, 1898.
43:28They named the main street,
43:30Calle Real, as Calle 18 de Junio.
43:38Right?
43:39Now, it's called M. Recto.
43:42So, you name streets so that you remember certain things.
43:48Of course, we want to remember Claro M. Recto as well.
43:52But Calle 18 de Junio na pangalan ay naburana.
44:00And there's no street now named after any part of that history in Lipa.
44:06Wala po.
44:08Pati yung 7 de Junio naging M. K. Lina Street na po siya.
44:12So, those were the bookend dates of this event, no?
44:15Parehong 7 de Junio and 18 de Junio parehong naburana
44:21sa mga pangalan ng kalsada at napalitan
44:24ng mga pangalan ng mga mas modernong Pilipino.
44:31So, maybe part of the effort can be bringing back those names, somehow.
44:39Or bringing back those dates, no?
44:41Para maalala ng karaniwang Pilipino, Lipeño, Batangueño, yung mga events na yun.
44:49So, two related questions, Ren.
44:51How can people access the book?
44:53How can they buy it?
44:55And what kind of formats are going to be available?
44:59On June 18, it will be launched.
45:02Lasal will be taking pre-orders of the book.
45:05Hard copy lang? Physical?
45:07Hard copy po.
45:08And then, PUP, Center for Philippine Studies, will have it available in their website called Sudlanan.
45:16They will publish the e-copy of the book for free.
45:23Okay, so it's going to be online?
45:26May parang suggestion din po for us to translate the book naman into Filipino.
45:32Dapat.
45:33When we did the research paper, one of the evaluators suggested that we also translate the book into Filipino.
45:42Okay, so we will also be looking forward to that.
45:46So, we want to thank you for doing this book and this major contribution to Philippine and Batanga Studies.
45:56Congratulations to you and your co-author, Manuel Pajarillo.
46:02Mabuhay kayo.
46:04And Happy Independence Day, Renz Katigba, author of and translator of Memoirs of a Prisoner of the Tagalogs by Dr. Santos Rubiano-Herrera.
46:18Maraming salamat po.
46:20And hoping for your support in this book project.
46:23Thank you.
46:24Hi, I'm Howie Severino.
46:26Check out the Howie Severino Podcast.
46:28New episodes will stream every Thursday.
46:30Listen for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, and other platforms.