In this edition of our weekly talkshow, participants discuss the ongoing talks about the appointments for the EU top jobs, the election campaign in France and football as a unifying factor.
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00:00Hello and welcome to Brussels my love, our weekly talk show from the heart of Europe.
00:17I'm your host Stefan Grobers, sitting in for Maeve McMahon.
00:21Thank you for tuning in.
00:23Coming up this week.
00:25The post-election game of horse trading went into overtime this week.
00:29Despite early optimism by many participants, the informal EU Council failed to appoint
00:34the candidates for the bloc's top jobs.
00:37There is reportedly no resistance to Ursula von der Leyen, Antonio Costa and Kaya Callas,
00:43but the rest of the food fight was as nasty as ever.
00:46Who is to blame here?
00:49And the outcome of the European elections has plunged France into political uncertainty,
00:55even anxiety.
00:57President Macron's decision to call snap elections has left the political parties scrambling
01:01for future alliances.
01:04Is France becoming ungovernable?
01:06What is the danger for Europe?
01:10Questions to our guests today, and here they are.
01:13Maria Rodriguez Alcazar, President of the European Youth Forum.
01:17Ricardo Borges de Castro, European and Global Affairs Specialist at the College of Europe.
01:22And Teona Lavrelashvili, Political Scientist and Senior Fellow at Catholic University in
01:28Leuven.
01:29Welcome again, and thank you for joining us.
01:32But before we hear from you, let's hear about the rather surprising outcome of the final
01:38round of the European elections.
01:46What was supposed to be a fast-track procedure turned out to be another act of high drama,
01:51the line-up of EU top jobs.
01:55An informal summit in Brussels struggled in vain until midnight to confirm the appointments,
02:02and this despite no serious opposition to the personalities.
02:07Yet the European People's Party and Italy's far-right government, both election winners,
02:11wanted a bigger share of the power pie.
02:13As a result, von der Leyen, Costa, and Callas need to be patient until at least the upcoming
02:18regular summit meeting next week.
02:21Too bad, this combination seems to be the perfect compromise in terms of political affiliation,
02:29geography, and gender balance, or not?
02:35Question to you all, is this line-up of known quantities, of known faces, a perfect compromise,
02:42Ricardo?
02:44I think these were the names that were on the table.
02:47I believe they reflect some of the balances so far of the results of the elections so
02:52far.
02:53You know, a second mandate in principle for Ursula von der Leyen in the European Commission.
02:59She belongs to the most voted party of the European Parliament elections.
03:03Then Costa for president of the council, and Mrs. Callas for the head of the diplomatic
03:10arm of the EU.
03:11So I think these names were names that not only, you know, they meet the equilibria that
03:18are necessary in terms of gender, in terms of political families, in terms of regional
03:23as well.
03:24We could mix into this also the president of the parliament or other...
03:27I was just going to say, in terms of gender, it's a full house for women, right?
03:32You add Metzola, you add Christine Lagarde, who is, of course, whose post is not up for
03:38grasp, but women are strongly represented here.
03:41So a perfect fit?
03:43Yes, I think so.
03:45I agree, indeed, that the gender balance is rather visible in this composition of the
03:49top jobs.
03:50But I think we should also remark the attempts of isolation of Melanie, that who also became
03:56angry on her potential non-imitation, actually, to the pre-summit dinner.
04:02And I think that this is something also that perhaps we should look into, and not over
04:06it.
04:07We'll come to Melanie later.
04:08But first of all, the centre holds, as we like to say, so it's almost business as usual,
04:15right?
04:16The same majority, a few seats less.
04:18Well, actually, it's quite encouraging that the majority can be kind of similar of the
04:22one that it was before in the commission.
04:25And what we are worried about is really on the roadmap, what will be the key issues that
04:29will be put in the agenda.
04:30So not that much of who is really in the top jobs, but of course, what we are asking the
04:34political parties that are committed to democracy is to block those anti-democratic political
04:39forces from holding influential positions, both in the parliament and in the commission.
04:44And I think we are in the right track for that.
04:47So maybe, yes, that's the right, that's the way forward.
04:50Okay.
04:51We still have no agreement, officially, right?
04:54And the absence of an agreement came as a surprise to most journalists and other council
04:59watchers, something that was brushed aside by outgoing council president Charles Michel
05:04during his midnight encounter with the media.
05:07Take a listen.
05:08There is no agreement tonight at this stage.
05:12The political parties are playing a role, and this is natural in such a political moment.
05:18They made proposals, and we have the occasion in the days to come to work further and to
05:24prepare the decisions that we need to make.
05:26I think it's our collective duty to make a decision by the end of June.
05:30I made several times publicly this point.
05:32I have not changed my mind about that.
05:35The 27 leaders, they have to work very hard to make sure that there will be an agreement
05:39on the institutional cycle and on the strategic agenda.
05:43In fact, it was absolutely clear from the beginning, and not a surprise at all, that
05:48the purpose today was not to make a decision.
05:51So if the purpose was not to make a decision, why have a council in the first place?
05:55I mean, it was an informal leaders' dinner to discuss, to have the first discussion about
05:59the results.
06:00So it also doesn't surprise me that they didn't reach an agreement.
06:02I would be worried if next week, you know, at the end of this week, so to say, they are
06:07not able to reach an agreement about this, because I agree with Maria, it's time to start
06:11thinking about the strategic agenda, the policies that will be shaping the EU for the next five
06:16years.
06:17This is where we need to focus our attention.
06:18But it was a kind of a pre-cooked agreement, right?
06:20With, as you said, Scholes and Macron, you know, they huddled together.
06:22It was a pre-cooked agreement, but this did not, was finalized, as Ricardo also mentioned.
06:28But also it doesn't surprise me either, because it was an informal gathering.
06:32But the most important is to avoid drama now this week, and to make sure that the deal
06:37will be achieved, and to indeed focus on the strategic agenda, and make sure that the priorities
06:42that need to be addressed, especially in the current poly-crisis, that needs to be indeed
06:49addressed.
06:50So isn't that the reason for this pre-cooked deal, to avoid all kinds of drama?
06:57Or are, you know, Macron and Scholes, are they already damaged goods here?
07:03I want to believe that they were really discussing policy, and that they were discussing what
07:06are the topics that will be streamlined in the next strategic agenda for the Commission.
07:11So whether there will be a reinforced EU Green Deal, whether the agenda for climate, for
07:16example, will be stronger, and also whether there will be discussions on the future generations
07:21and how youth will be also more represented.
07:23Right.
07:24But there has to be a Commission first.
07:25Yeah.
07:26Absolutely.
07:27So now we're going through this.
07:28The Christian Democrats, the EPP, did something weird, right?
07:31They said, okay, we have this personnel package here, but we want to cut the term of the Council
07:41President in half.
07:42That's out of the blue, right?
07:45Not really, right?
07:46Because the treaties also envisage this kind of possibility.
07:49And I think that more power, to a certain extent, also requires more responsibility.
07:53Of course, now I'm not here now to estimate or judge whether or not this demand was justified.
07:59But I think it's important to have discussions, discussions that lead to an outcome, to have
08:05leaders.
08:06And I think that the Commission President, I believe that Wanderlion, will be re-elected,
08:12nominated.
08:13And I think this will confirm as well that the EU wants to show the geopolitical imperative
08:18of the new Commission.
08:19You mentioned Meloni.
08:20Meloni was not happy with this, but rather not happy with the process.
08:23So she wants more.
08:26But that's normal, right?
08:27I think any politician, and like her, that actually was a winner of these elections,
08:32contrary to many of those that are around the Council table, she wants...
08:36But everyone is doing the same.
08:37It's a negotiation.
08:38It's a negotiation.
08:39Everybody wants to get the best out of this deal.
08:42It's interesting that Mrs. Meloni, at this meeting, she was saying that she wanted to
08:45discuss policies, because her position, at least in the European Parliament, was not
08:50as consolidated as it is today.
08:51We know that these numbers might still change.
08:54But the ECR, it's at the moment above Renew Europe, above the Liberal.
08:58It's a foretaste of populist obstructionism, Maria, in the coming years.
09:04What do you mean?
09:06Meloni is now, you know, standing up against a deal that, you know, there were reports
09:12that she had agreed to, to Shultz and Macron in Italy at the G7 summit.
09:17And now she's saying no.
09:18Yeah, but I think that also depends on the rest of the political leaders and, for example,
09:23we were hearing the Secretary General of the Socialists and Democrats or the Greens, for
09:28example, saying that they would not accept an agreement for the Commission if Meloni
09:32was supporting.
09:34So, I mean, I think there are also ways in which that can be navigated, and we will need
09:38to see what's offered to those political parties and, yeah, how the final agreement
09:42it can be, and whether it's needed or not, the votes from Meloni.
09:46So that's the question.
09:47No, indeed, because traditionally there are three biggest political families that negotiate.
09:52But now, as Ricardo, you rightly mentioned, due to the results, electoral results in Italy.
09:57These are provisional.
09:58So this still could change.
09:59So until the 4th of July, the groups need to be formed.
10:03Italy had a kind of, you know, BFF relationship with von der Leyen just a few weeks ago.
10:11This seems to have gone by the wayside, right, Ricardo?
10:14Is this...
10:15I don't know if this has gone by the wayside.
10:17I wouldn't say that right away.
10:19I mean, let's see.
10:20I think as the weeks will unfold, we will see where actually everyone then lands.
10:23I would say that the way I understand also the positioning of Mrs. von der Leyen, I think
10:28she was trying to divide, let's say, the conservative and the hard right and the radical
10:34right.
10:35She was trying to pull in Mrs. Meloni to divide them, to set them apart, because indeed Mrs.
10:39Meloni is not Mrs. Le Pen.
10:40So I think that there was that attempt.
10:43Whether this has completely, you know, burst, I don't know.
10:46I think in any case, Mrs. Meloni will always demand, for example, an important position
10:50within the European Commission to Mrs. von der Leyen.
10:53And we can also not exclude that ECR parties or even the Brothers of Italy, her party,
10:57will vote for Mrs. von der Leyen in the European Parliament if Mrs. von der Leyen is the one
11:02that is indicated by the Council, because these votes are secret votes.
11:06So I want to focus on the candidates now that are on the table here, because in a different
11:12universe, in a bygone era, I think things would have been differently.
11:16I mean, we said here there was actually no opposition to the top job trio, which was
11:21confirmed by several summit participants.
11:23But publicly, none of the candidates were without fault.
11:28Take a look.
11:29Ursula von der Leyen has not been uncontroversial.
11:35There are still lingering investigations into Pfizergate and an alleged wrongdoing of hers
11:39over vaccine contracts.
11:40She also received blistering criticism for her one-sided approach of the Israel-Hamas
11:44war and was criticized for a migration deal with Tunisia that left human rights groups
11:49still fuming.
11:53Antonio Costa started out as a successful Prime Minister of Portugal until police raided
11:57his official residence as part of a corruption investigation.
12:01Costa has not been found guilty of anything, but his move from Lisbon to Brussels is seen
12:05by some as tasteless and water on the mills of anti-EU populists.
12:13Kaya Kalas finally faced heat amid a probe of her husband's business ties to Russia.
12:17She survived this political scandal, but her staunch pro-Ukraine position raised doubts
12:22about her impartiality and open-mindedness deemed necessary for the EU's top diplomat.
12:29Question, why didn't this criticism weigh heavily in the run-up?
12:37Because these are very important jobs, these are the top jobs, which will define the future
12:43of Europe in the next legislature, but also in terms of the influence of the Council and
12:48the Commission and to a certain extent Parliament.
12:51But you discussed, you mentioned Kalas, so I think that's, in my opinion, so she's a
12:56good candidate, especially also not because only she's from a smaller member state and
13:02from Baltic state, but also because she will have more focus on Russia, but also on fighting
13:08disinformation and information manipulation, but she needs to be also very careful not
13:12to focus only Russia, but also to take care of other parts of the country.
13:16We heard that.
13:17Pedro, is that part of today's zeitgeist, that scandals like these don't seem to matter
13:23anymore?
13:24I mean, I think they still matter, right?
13:27But I believe that in this particular case, and as you pointed out, none of these candidates
13:32without fault, so I think, I mean, the criticism is there and people, I mean, Mr. Tusk, one
13:37of the questions that he made regarding Mr. Costa was, you know, I want to have more information
13:41about what is the situation of this case in Portugal.
13:46So I think these have not disappeared, but also maybe you could make the argument that
13:50today litigation, that this type of events are much more frequent than probably in the
13:56past.
13:57But nevertheless, I think they should be seen as the piece was saying that this could be
14:01for the far right to have this type of candidates.
14:05And Mrs. von der Leyen, as we know here in Brussels, she also has a very sort of particular
14:09leadership style that is not appreciated in many corners.
14:13But I also believe that in any case, like there is not enough debate also, like among
14:16the citizens on this matter, no?
14:19I mean, I don't think that regular citizens just in Spain, for example, they are really
14:24thinking on Callas as what's her profile, what are the scandals that she's carrying
14:28with her or like Antonio Costas, you know?
14:31So I mean, I feel that that's a discussion very much here in the Brussels bubble, but
14:35that's not something that is widely known for the population.
14:37So that's why I feel that it doesn't affect that much.
14:41You're president of the Youth Forum.
14:43So you have your finger on the pulse of what teenagers think.
14:48Isn't the fact that they present a package of personalities with, you know, I don't want
14:57to overblow it here, but they all have been involved in some sort of scandal.
15:01Isn't that something that the teenagers, you know, who get into the political process for
15:05the first time in their lives, something that is almost off-putting?
15:09I mean, I feel that that's really not encouraging indeed, but that's also something that is
15:14not that known.
15:15So that's my point here, that it's not widely known what are the scandals that Antonio Costas
15:21had, for example, in Portugal, all over Europe.
15:24So that's something, it's a very narrow discussion, let's say, or a very narrow circle.
15:29But of course, it's not encouraging to see politicians that they are carrying scandals
15:33with them, because then you wonder also what are the ethics, let's say.
15:37But also we need to be fair as well with politicians and why or how those scandals
15:41were and how that was solved afterwards.
15:44So in that sense, I mean, we also need to be careful on how we judge people.
15:48But in any case, of course, the ethics in politics also need to be put forward.
15:53And that's a positive message, I think, for society, not only for young people, but in
15:56general, to trust better in the institutions and to trust better the politicians that are
16:00leading them.
16:01Yeah, I'm not advocating against innocence, right?
16:06But, you know, I remember a time when, you know, a scandal like this would have meant
16:12the end of one's political career.
16:15Oh, well, I think that in this case, what we have observed is the investigation process
16:22that are ongoing.
16:23For instance, in the case of Costa, he has not officially been charged or he has also
16:28not cleared either.
16:29He has been very quiet about the whole process.
16:32No, he has actually used yesterday in an interview that let the European Council work,
16:37do their work, do their job.
16:38And I think it's and the issue that the case in which he's involved has flared up again
16:43because of wiretapping and these sort of things.
16:46And I think I would say the more this process lasts, the more of these issues will actually
16:52come to the surface.
16:53If we called morphing a country into an authoritarian regime a scandal, Viktor Orban would be a
17:00constant political survivor.
17:02The Hungarian prime minister weighed in on the deal over the top jobs and was, not surprising,
17:07not happy.
17:08And here's what he said.
17:09The will of the European people was ignored in Brussels, he said.
17:13The result of the European elections is clear.
17:16The EPP finally teamed up with the socialists and the liberals.
17:20They made a deal and divided the top jobs of the EU among themselves.
17:24They don't care about reality.
17:26They don't care about results of the elections.
17:29They don't care about the will of the European people.
17:32We, Orban, will not give in to this.
17:35We will unite the forces of the European right and fight against pro-migration and pro-war
17:40bureaucrats.
17:41All right.
17:42These are the typical antics here.
17:44But uniting the forces of the European right, this is quite a political undertaking, as
17:49we've seen until now.
17:52Or is it wishful thinking?
17:55Not really.
17:56I mean, let's have a frank look to the results of the European Parliament elections.
18:01Even though there is not a surge of right-wing parties, we have seen in France, in Germany,
18:07there is an increase.
18:08Yes, but uniting the forces of the right.
18:10This is ongoing.
18:11This is ongoing.
18:12They hate each other, these guys.
18:13But I think that's an overstatement from his side.
18:16I don't know if they hate.
18:17I mean, let's see.
18:19My question is, are they pragmatic enough to put aside their differences and actually
18:22try to build a bloc in the European Parliament that would actually give them actual power?
18:28I'm still skeptical that they would be able to do this, because these parties are also
18:31nationalistic parties.
18:33So they don't like other nationalities.
18:34They have their problems between countries.
18:37And so I think there's a limitation there.
18:39I think another dividing line is certainly support to Ukraine and the pro-Russia camp
18:44and the pro-Putin camp.
18:45So I think these are all sort of issues that will continue, I believe, dividing them.
18:51But you never know.
18:53I don't cease to be surprised also by European politics.
18:55I mean, in 2019, we also thought that things were very clear.
18:59And then Mrs. von der Leyen came out of the blue to become the president of the European
19:02Commission.
19:03And much will also depend on Melania, right, Ricardo?
19:06What kind of...
19:07Wishful thinking.
19:08Uniting the right.
19:09Yeah, it is.
19:10But I think it was also quite encouraging that the go-to of the EPP, it was actually
19:15go to the democratic coalition.
19:18And in this sense, I think it also shows the commitment of the different political
19:22parties to defend democracy, defending democracy, defending human rights, and defending all
19:26the advancement in human rights that we have had during these years.
19:30So I want to think that also that means blocking some of those parties, that they're actually
19:35putting more restrictions and that they're, I mean, like making steps backwards.
19:41That's it for now.
19:42We take a little break.
19:43And when we come back, political chaos in France.
19:46Is Macron facing the shambles of his policies?
19:50Don't go away.
20:00Welcome back to Brussels, my love.
20:02Our guests are still Teona Lavrila-Schvili, Maria Rodriguez Alcazar, and Ricardo Borges
20:08de Castro.
20:09The aftermath of the European elections has plunged France into political hell, as some
20:14observers put it.
20:16Emmanuel Macron's announcement of snap elections sees the political parties jockeying for the
20:20best positions for the next legislative term.
20:24That means a game of tell me who you are, and I tell you what coalition is best for
20:29you.
20:30It's a free-for-all.
20:31All dynamics are no longer valid and reliable.
20:35So first of all, that decision by Macron calling snap elections, was it a desperate
20:40move of a gambler or a calculated risk by a political genius?
20:46Now you have two extremes.
20:48I think, I mean, politicians ask what are my alternatives?
20:52That's the question that they normally ask when they are presented in a political situation.
20:55And I think, honestly, I don't see that he had many options, but to delay probably a
21:00period of instability until he would be forced to take this decision.
21:03So I think he tried to regain the, let's say, the initiative, the political initiative.
21:09It is a high stakes decision.
21:12He is also, I mean, Macron, we can't forget in 2017, he was a political insurgent that
21:17rose to the top of French politics.
21:19So I think this is his style.
21:21And it's OK.
21:22I mean, it's nice to say, let's send back the words to voters and see what they decide.
21:28Of course, it has huge risks, has taken everybody by surprise.
21:32And now we need to wait again a couple of, you know, 11 days.
21:35He doesn't have a real majority right now.
21:38It's always a little, you know, tricky, but it doesn't seem to get better after snap elections,
21:45right?
21:46Indeed.
21:47Let's also look at the polls, right, for the upcoming elections.
21:51His party is not scoring that well.
21:53And what we see is really that the country is plugged into uncertainty.
21:57On the one hand, you have Front National, and on the other hand, we have left parties,
22:02rather fragmented, I have to say, with different point of views.
22:05And you have Mélenchon, who dominates the political discussions.
22:09And let's not forget that Mélenchon is not particularly that Europhile in many ways.
22:14He doesn't want to respect the budgetary rules of the European Commission.
22:18And also on the left side, you have anti-capitalist movement, which is parties, anti-democratic
22:23itself.
22:24Maria, we also learned from polls that young voters, first-time voters, especially boys,
22:32sort of tend to tilt towards the far right.
22:35What's the reason?
22:36Yeah, we really don't have yet all the results for all the countries in Europe.
22:40But this is a trend that is seen that, and it's undeniable, that a significant amount
22:44of young people are supporting far-right extreme parties.
22:47And in this sense, also men in particular, and I think in France, it was very noticeable.
22:53The question that we should ask ourselves is how young people are represented in politics.
23:00What are those parties actually offering to young people?
23:04And they are offering them representation.
23:06They are showing also the needs, the demands, the challenges that young people are facing.
23:10And many times, we often see that traditional political parties or political parties that
23:14are playing in the framework of democracy, they are not offering enough for young people.
23:18And we don't see that the institutions are delivering enough for us.
23:21So I can understand this kind of protest vote that comes from many young people or
23:25that they feel represented with those politicians that are putting forward their agenda.
23:29We've seen in France that the political parties flocking to one of essentially three blocks,
23:35the far right, the center around Macron, and the left-leaning Front Populaire Alliance.
23:41What will be the election outcome?
23:43We asked political analyst Benjamin Morel.
23:46Here's what he said.
23:50In order of probability, the first scenario is perhaps a technical government with a total
23:54absence of a majority, where no party, no group, none of the three major political blocks
23:58will obtain a majority.
23:59So an agreement will have to be reached at least for a year before the National Assembly
24:02can be resolved again.
24:04The second possibility is a government with an absolute far-right Rassemblement National
24:08majority.
24:09This is quite likely.
24:10The third possibility is a kind of union of the centers, which could exclude the far-left
24:14France Insoumise and the far-right Rassemblement National.
24:17This would mean that France Insoumise and Rassemblement National together would have
24:20less than 289 seats.
24:22Not very likely at this stage.
24:24The most unlikely scenario at the moment is an absolute majority for the left that would
24:28lead to another cohabitation.
24:29Yeah, we have an open field day here speculating.
24:36He mentions a technical government, a technical minority government, whatever that is, as
24:41the most likely outcome.
24:42Would that strengthen or weaken Macron?
24:45I think it will not be a stable government, as far as I can understand it.
24:51And I think maybe this is what he's trying to do, is that, I mean, sometimes we hear
24:56that governments need to go for a cure of opposition.
25:00Maybe what he's asking now is that the opposition needs to go for a cure of government and show
25:03what they can deliver.
25:05But you know, having a year of instability in France will not be good, neither for France
25:10nor for Europe, I would say.
25:12So let's see how all of these combinations, how they'll play out.
25:16You know, a government of cohabitation between two presidents and a government of different
25:23political families, it also might not produce the outcomes that we would need at this moment.
25:31How would that affect Macron's presidency?
25:33He already is a lame duck.
25:34He is.
25:35And this will, he will then be obliged to govern with the political rivals, let's say.
25:45And this will also affect its relations with the European Union, especially the Franco-German
25:49collaboration also will be weakened, I believe.
25:52And some of the important policy dossiers, including an enlargement, I think that we
25:56will see some challenges.
25:58What about Le Pen and Bardella?
26:00I mean, they, we talk them up all the time, their head in the polls, but with 30-35%,
26:08even with the French system, they might need a partner for a coalition.
26:12Who should that be?
26:13Well, hopefully no one, but yeah, no, that's the core thing.
26:17A party that is anti-democratic or that is spreading anti-democratic values and is playing
26:22out of the rule of law, hopefully it's not in a governmental position.
26:27But it's true that right now, I mean, it's a very risky situation because it's 31% of
26:31the population that is supporting that.
26:34And I feel it's very clear in the results of the European Parliament elections, there
26:37is a protest vote, really, a vote for change in the French system right now.
26:43And I feel that the political parties, they are not really creating now a narrative of
26:47hope, but more like a narrative against what is in place or a narrative against the establishment
26:53in a way.
26:54Yeah.
26:56Ricardo, very briefly, Bartela last week said that he will only take the job as prime minister
27:01if he gets a majority.
27:03Is he already backing off?
27:05Is he tasting the reality of politics?
27:07I think he might be tasting the reality of politics, but he might also be dramatizing
27:11the situation and say it's either everything or we don't govern and it's chaos.
27:16And everybody, in a sense, is playing with the chaos possibility to frighten voters the
27:22same way that the government is saying either the left or the right wins.
27:26It's going to be economic chaos in France.
27:29So that's all we have time for.
27:31Thank you to our panel here in the studio and you for being with us.
27:36Thank you for watching.
27:37See you soon here on Euronews.
27:47Welcome back to Brussels, my love.
27:49I am Stefan Grobe, still together with Teona Laverelasvili, Maria Rodriguez Alcázar and
27:54Ricardo Borges de Castro.
27:56The UEFA Euro 2024 has finally begun.
28:00Football fans across the continent are following the games in one of the beautiful German stadiums
28:05or on live TV.
28:07So far, the atmosphere is great and no violent incidents between fans have been reported.
28:13It looks like in these divisive times for our fractured societies, football is a unifying
28:20factor, maybe the only one left.
28:23I think somehow it is indeed.
28:25I mean, and we also need those spaces for dialogue, even where people can understand
28:30each other and even connect in a more informal way.
28:32But I think it's also a place where to pass on some values.
28:36And I'm very happy actually to see like some football players that, for example...
28:41I don't know what you want to say.
28:42Yeah.
28:43That's because we have we have an extra here.
28:47But but football, you know, people seem to get out of everything else and are glued to
28:52the TV and follow football and everybody is together.
28:56Yeah.
28:57I mean, it's a unifying factor, especially if you're winning as well.
29:00I think that helps a lot.
29:01But it is true that I think Europeans and you see in offices here in Brussels, people
29:06are have their own tournaments internally to predict who's going to win the game.
29:10So, I mean, it's a moment of also of getting together in squares across Europe to watch
29:15the game as it happened here in Brussels.
29:17So I think it's also a moment that people from different countries come together to
29:21watch something that they enjoy.
29:22Teona, you're from Georgia and they surprised everybody with their first performance.
29:27How do people in Georgia follow this?
29:30People stood behind our team.
29:31So for Georgia, it was really a milestone because it was for the first time that we
29:35played the Euro, right?
29:38But we lost, unfortunately.
29:39But I think that the way how we played also demonstrates that sometimes it's not the victory
29:42that counts, but the path that you take.
29:45But in general, I think that indeed, the football is a unifying factor because this is a transnational
29:49exercise that we need more in European public sphere.
29:52And this is an exercise that helps.
29:53And that's something that the Eurovision Song Contest has kind of lost at least this year
29:56because there were so many controversies around it.
30:00And now for Maria, even football can't escape politics, right?
30:04In France, where a far right government is looming, we just discussed it, football stars
30:08have spoken out against such a prospect.
30:11Kylian Mbappé has said, I am against extremes.
30:15I still want to be proud of wearing this shirt on July the 7th.
30:18That is the day of the final.
30:20I don't want to represent a country that doesn't reflect my values, that doesn't reflect our
30:24values. Will this have an impact?
30:26No, absolutely.
30:27And I mean, those are people that have a big share, that they have a big outreach among
30:32young people, but not only young people.
30:34And I think it's encouraging also to see the messages pro-democracy and also encouraging
30:38people to go vote, because that's also something that they have done.
30:42And they have clearly said that those are anti-democratic parties and people should
30:46support those values and the advancement of human rights.
30:49So I think that really has an impact.
30:51And for example, for the European Parliament elections, one thing that we did is a partnership
30:55also with artists in the network of Sony Music.
30:57And that also had an impact.
30:59There's the counter argument.
31:00They say football stars, you know, highly paid.
31:04They're far away from today's all-day families realities.
31:08Should they actually step into the arena and talk about politics?
31:13That doesn't mean that they don't have values or political preferences.
31:16So I think it's totally normal.
31:17I mean, it would be much more comfortable, I'm sure, for him not to say anything, to
31:20stay quiet and just enjoy the benefits that you just described.
31:23No, actually, in the moment of high stakes, he's saying what he believes.
31:27And I don't think that that's wrong.
31:29I think that we treat football stars when they do this the same as famous entertainment
31:34stars, musicians, actors in the U.S.
31:38We see this right now during the campaign, you know, Hollywood A-listers come out in
31:43support of usually the Democrats.
31:45Should we?
31:46Is this something we should appreciate?
31:49I think that's on the one hand, yes, as Ricardo said, they are free to express their own values,
31:54preferences and also ideas.
31:56However, on the other hand, perhaps we should not really rely much on when it comes to the
32:01political analysis or judgments from the start.
32:04Good.
32:05That is a great conclusion.
32:06We're running out of time here, but thank you so much on the panel, my guests here.
32:11And thank you for watching.
32:13If you would like to reach out to us on whatever topic, our email address is brusselsmylove
32:17at journalnews.com.
32:18You can also contact us on social media.
32:22That's it.
32:23Take care and see you soon.