Analysts discuss whether Biden should drop out of race after debate performance
Analysts discuss whether Biden should drop out of race after debate performance
Transcript
00:00Here with me today, podcaster and author Kara Swisher,
00:03editor-in-chief of The Dispatch and columnist at the LA Times,
00:07Jonah Goldberg, New York Times journalist and podcast host,
00:10Lulu Garcia-Navarro, and executive director
00:13of the American conservative magazine, Kurt Mills.
00:16Welcome, everyone, especially Kurt, who was a first-timer.
00:20So, Kara, every time over the last few months
00:23that I've raised the possibility that Biden somehow
00:26might exit this race, you've said,
00:29it's not going to happen.
00:30After this debate, should he drop out?
00:34Will he drop out?
00:35At last night, I thought, perhaps.
00:37I was on a plane during the debate on purpose.
00:38I didn't want to see it because I felt...
00:40Remember I said last week someone was going to fall
00:42and break a hip? Well, someone did.
00:44So, I was worried about the thing,
00:46but when I saw it last night, I thought, yes.
00:49Then I saw him at the rally today.
00:50Yes, he should be out. He should be out.
00:52And then I saw him at the rally.
00:52I'm like, and I saw him at the Waffle House right after.
00:55The Waffle House Biden is an excellent Biden.
00:57And today at the rally, he was very vibrant.
00:59So, I don't think he's going to.
01:00So, I don't think it really matters
01:02if he should or shouldn't.
01:03I don't think he's absolutely not going to step out.
01:05But what changed your mind?
01:06I mean, he bombed in front of 50 million people.
01:09And because he reads well off a teleprompter,
01:11that persuades you he should lead the free world
01:14for four years?
01:14No, I think they were making...
01:16Their talking point was that the past three and a half years,
01:18he's done a very good job.
01:19And I think he could make that case to people.
01:21And one of the things that did persuade me a little bit
01:23is all the pundits were in a panic.
01:25They absolutely were.
01:27But then I was noticing a lot of stuff from voters,
01:29and they had a different reaction than pundits.
01:31And I just don't quite know what the actual reaction is
01:34beyond the Washington bubble.
01:36Jonah, as a never Trump conservative,
01:39should Biden drop out?
01:42And will he?
01:43He definitely should drop out.
01:44I think if you actually believe the things
01:46that Democrats say about Trump being an existential threat
01:51to democracy, then you should do everything that you can
01:56within the law and within the rules
01:59to put forward the best person
02:01who has a chance of beating Donald Trump.
02:04Joe Biden is losing right now.
02:06After that debate, he's going to do worse in the polls.
02:10And I find there's also just this more basic question
02:14about whether he's actually up to the job.
02:17You know, when Robert Herr, the special counsel,
02:19said that he was too old and too, you know...
02:21It was denounced as this outrageous partisan hit.
02:25It is now the defence of Joe Biden,
02:27that he's an old guy, he has bad moments
02:30and all that kind of thing.
02:32I don't think that reading from a teleprompter
02:34is the same thing of having to actually answer questions
02:37for 90 minutes without any notes,
02:39using your brain and your recall.
02:42And I think he's not qualified for the job
02:44or to be the candidate.
02:45Then there's the question of the party
02:48perhaps acting on its own.
02:50We've looked at the rules,
02:51and Biden's delegates to the Democratic convention
02:53are not legally bound to vote for him,
02:56but they were handpicked by his campaign
02:59and are presumably loyal to him.
03:01Lulu, as a practical matter,
03:02can Democrats force Biden out
03:05if he doesn't want to drop out of the race?
03:07No, I don't think they can force him out.
03:09This is something that has to come from him
03:11and it has to come from the upper echelons
03:12of the Democratic Party.
03:14If indeed that is the decision that is being made,
03:18and I see no evidence of that.
03:19I mean, I think there's a lot of panic,
03:21but I don't see any evidence at the top of the party
03:24that they are willing to do that right now.
03:26They really don't have...
03:28Their hands are tied.
03:29There's really not a whole lot that they can do about it.
03:31But their hands aren't tied.
03:32I mean, the delegates are not legally bound.
03:34They could all sit there and decide.
03:36No one's going to have an internal coup
03:37in the Democratic Party to shove out Joe Biden.
03:40It's not going to happen.
03:41So to even sort of speculate about that,
03:44I think is irresponsible.
03:48In heaven.
03:49Kurt, let me pick up on that
03:52because I want to pick up on something that Jonas said.
03:55If you believe, as the Democrats profess,
03:58that Donald Trump has an existential threat to democracy,
04:02why wouldn't they, even if Biden doesn't want them to,
04:05throw open the convention
04:06and pick somebody who they feel more confident
04:09can perhaps ward off this threat of Donald Trump?
04:12I guess I just see it in a direct opposite manner.
04:14If they do believe their own rhetoric,
04:17you're talking about the least democratic process possible.
04:21We had an open primary.
04:22He could have been challenged.
04:23The health problems were not new.
04:26He was not challenged, seriously.
04:27There was the Dean Phillips person who got 1% of the vote.
04:31Yeah, yeah, precisely.
04:32And now we want to have a panic convention
04:36three weeks into it.
04:39Also, the regulations, I believe,
04:40they decided to do it over Zoom in July.
04:43So we're talking about doing an open convention over Zoom.
04:47I can't imagine anything less democratic
04:49than what's being proposed there.
04:50I wholeheartedly agree.
04:51This is fantasy stuff.
04:53This is good for TV, but Biden's not going anywhere.
04:56And I always think it's very funny how doubted he is.
05:00This is actually the most implacable opponent Trump has had.
05:04Trump beat Hillary Clinton.
05:05Did you watch the debate?
05:06Yeah, I mean...
05:07And were you not troubled by Biden's performance?
05:10Troubled, like, as an American?
05:12I mean, like, he obviously...
05:13Pretend that you're an American.
05:15My ideal president would not be in his early 80s,
05:18but he does seem, like, kind of fine.
05:23I sort of buy the line that he has a cold.
05:26I don't approve of a lot of decisions
05:28he made in his presidency,
05:29but he won the vote,
05:31and he won the vote of his party in the spring.
05:34And I see no reason why he should be defrocked
05:36because he had a raspy voice last night.
05:39Jonah, let's just play this out.
05:41If Biden somehow exits the race,
05:44either of his own volition or a coup inside the party,
05:49is there a Democrat who do you think
05:52would have a better chance of beating Donald Trump?
05:55I think Gretchen Whitmer would have a pretty good chance.
05:57Governor of Michigan.
05:58I think the governor of Pennsylvania.
05:59I think a governor in general.
06:00Governors are the last politicians
06:02as a category in this country
06:04that actually care about, first of all,
06:07governing and dealing with a majority of their own voters
06:10and know how to talk to their voters in a certain way,
06:13because they don't have to nationalise their politics.
06:15Jonah, don't you think it's just,
06:16it's too late for all of this?
06:17Oh, it'd be very hard.
06:18I mean, and also Gretchen Whitmer,
06:20and I've interviewed her recently for her new book,
06:22and she is a charismatic leader.
06:24She's done a lot in Michigan.
06:26She's brought in a trifecta for the state.
06:28I mean, there's a lot of enthusiasm around her,
06:30but frankly, she polls at 5% nationally.
06:33People don't know her.
06:34Because she's not running.
06:35Right, but the idea that they're going to get to know her
06:38between now and November,
06:39or any other of these candidates,
06:40is I think, again, confusing.
06:41They know Joe Biden and don't like him.
06:43That's the fundamental problem.
06:45And I, personally, I don't care about the,
06:46if there's an idea that the Democratic Party
06:48has to be internally democratic,
06:50that is an idea that goes back to 1972.
06:52Parties can not, we are the only advanced
06:55industrialised democracy in the world
06:57whose parties have voluntarily given up the ability
06:59to pick their own candidates.
07:00It's just not going to happen.
07:01By the way, Democrats aren't very good at coups.
07:02That's sort of the GOP's speciality.
07:05But it's not going to happen.
07:06That's the whole thing.
07:08It is a Washington fantasy.
07:09It's just not happening in real time.
07:11It's not as fantastic as it was a few days ago.
07:15And one thing I noticed,
07:16the person not mentioned in this conversation
07:19is the current vice president, Kamala Harris.
07:22Do you see any possibility,
07:24if Biden somehow exits this race,
07:29that the Democratic Party that now stands
07:32would pass over the first black woman vice president?
07:36I mean, they could.
07:37I mean, she is the best known of them, right?
07:39Of all of them, she's the best known.
07:40So she would be the natural person to pick.
07:43But I think there's quite a few candidates.
07:44There's Gavin Newsom.
07:46Gavin Newsom probably is her biggest competitor,
07:48would be my guess, between the two of them.
07:51But again, it's not going to happen.
07:53You're sticking with that.
07:54I was watching a lot of the statements
07:56from Barack Obama and some others,
07:58and I just don't see it.
07:59They're not going to say it in public.
08:00They're going to go into them in private.