On "Forbes Newsroom," Democratic strategist Melissa DeRosa reacted to last night's presidential debate between President Biden and former President Trump.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Hi, everybody. I'm Brittany Lewis with Forbes Breaking News. Joining me now is Melissa De Rosa,
00:07Democratic strategist and former secretary under New York Governor Andrew Cuomo.
00:11Melissa, thank you so much for joining me. Thanks so much for having me, Brittany. Great to be here.
00:16Great to have you back. Last night was a historic night, a presidential debate between
00:21Donald Trump and Joe Biden. And you posed this question for Democrats.
00:27Do we acknowledge the complicated politics of our party and change horses
00:31or crawl back under the covers and pretend it was all a bad dream?
00:35What's the answer to that after you see Joe Biden's performance last night?
00:40You know, Brittany, last night was there's no sugarcoating this. It was an unmitigated disaster.
00:45I mean, from start to finish. And I wrote about this in a piece in The Daily Beast where, you
00:49know, literally within minutes of the debate starting, I was getting text messages across
00:54my phone, you know, from Democrats in New York and California and swing states all saying, you know,
01:00this is an unmitigated disaster. And what do we do? And the only way to change perception is with
01:06reality. And the problem is the perception of the electorate is that Joe Biden is too old.
01:12And in poll after poll, we see that that is a greater concern to the American public
01:17than the fact that Donald Trump is a convicted criminal. And so last night,
01:22he had one thing that he had to do, which was present to the extent that he could energetic.
01:29There needed to be color in his face. He needed to be coherent. He needed to land a punch or two.
01:34And he not only didn't do any of those things, he was dawdling. His mouth was open agape,
01:40you know, almost as if they didn't tell him he was going to be on a split screen.
01:44And it just at a certain point, it felt almost mean. And so, you know, there's a lot of talk
01:49this morning amongst the Democratic Party, a very high circle saying,
01:53what now? And the problem is, given where we are in the calendar, I don't know that there's an
01:58answer. I just got off a conversation with a political strategist and a political scientist,
02:05rather. And they said the mood isn't gloating. If you're a Republican, the mood isn't all around
02:12sorrow. I mean, he said when you watched that, you couldn't help but feel bad for Joe Biden.
02:18And I had lifelong Democrats texting me last night telling me,
02:22hey, I voted for Hillary Clinton. I voted for Joe Biden in 2020. I'm watching this. I have
02:28to turn it off. And I cannot vote for Donald Trump, but I cannot in good conscience vote for
02:34Joe Biden. What do you think about that? You know, look, we already had an enthusiasm gap
02:39issue, I think, especially after the Trump conviction. And we saw that in The New York
02:43Times Siena poll a couple of days ago. We saw it in the Q poll that dropped where he was picking
02:48up national steam. And what you're seeing is the Republican Party was solidifying behind him in a
02:54way that you're not seeing the Democratic Party do with Biden. And I think after last night,
02:59what your friend or what the person was just on expressed to you is, I think, exactly what's
03:04happening. I think people are saying, I cannot in good conscience go pull the lever for Joe Biden.
03:10And we are still a country that needs to have a leader that is cogent, coherent, can lead.
03:16And after last night's performance, that was all, you know, thrown in doubt.
03:20And I agree with you that I think that there is even the cover of The New York Post notorious
03:25tabloid. You know, I was waiting to see what kind of sort of gratuitous shot they were going to take.
03:29And this morning, their front page was like, this is sad. And I'll tell you that the feeling amongst
03:35the Democrats I'm talking to is also a lot of anger because there are a lot of people in the
03:39Democratic Party who feel that the people in the White House and people like Chuck Schumer and and
03:45others, cabinet secretaries have been lying to Democrats at very high levels about what's going
03:51on behind closed doors. You're a Democratic strategist. I am curious what you think,
03:57how this happened, because I've been getting the same sentiment from Democratic voters who do feel
04:02like they've been lied to. There was a Wall Street Journal report out just a few weeks ago saying
04:07behind closed doors, Biden show signs of slipping and Democratic lawmakers and others came out
04:14against that very harshly on display last night. We saw a president who couldn't form a coherent
04:21sentence together, was losing his train of thought, couldn't fill the gaps of a full response.
04:28So how do does the Democratic Party regain this trust of these voters?
04:34Well, you know, one of the things that people are really grappling with and trying to square
04:38today, Brittany, is the Joe Biden that we saw at the State of the Union, who was energetic,
04:44who was on, who delivered a few punches, who was able to hold his own, who looked physically good.
04:51Where was he last night? And the Biden camp has spent the last I think it was eight days in Camp
04:57David preparing for that debate. And then for him to show up, and I mean, even just little things,
05:04performative things like his face looked pale, like why, you know, why didn't they put bronzer
05:10on him? Why, you know, little things that all put together, it just gives off this impression
05:16that he is behind the scenes exactly who the Republican Party has been saying he is,
05:21and the Democrats have been saying that's not true, that's not true. And the only way I think
05:26that Joe Biden could come back from this and the Democrats can regain voter trust is if he goes and
05:31sits with the New York Times. He does a 60 minutes interview. He's out on the campaign trail. But the
05:36question is, can he? He hasn't been doing those things. Can he do those things? And that's ultimately,
05:43I think, going to be the decider between now and November. He's got any shot. He's got to show the
05:48American public that what happened last night was an aberration. And I just don't know if he can.
05:54What do you think happens now? Because Democrats seem like they are presented with two paths.
05:59Do they go full force behind Joe Biden? That's what Gavin Newsom was suggesting last night. He
06:05did acknowledge, hey, yes, it wasn't a great 90 minutes, but we have to rally around behind Joe
06:11Biden. It's been a great three and a half years. Or do they choose somebody else? We're less than
06:16two months away from the DNC. Well, I'm told, although I haven't seen it yet, that the White
06:21House has issued an official statement today saying that he is not dropping out. And so if
06:27that's their initial off the cuff, who knows what can happen in the coming weeks in the lead into
06:31the election. What I wrote about in The Daily Beast was I think the only way this could be
06:35accomplished is if former presidents Bill Clinton and Barack Obama sort of link arms and go to him
06:41and go to Dr. Jill Biden and say, your contributions to this country have been immeasurable. You won
06:47back the White House from Donald Trump in 2020. You will be long honored. But it's time to put
06:53country first and step aside. And I think absent that sort of a coordinated move and appeal both
06:59to him and to his wife, I'm not sure he is going to step aside. And those are his delegates. He
07:05won them fair and square. So unless he releases them, there's really no move at the convention,
07:11like a coup would be really impossible. And so I think that the only way it could happen
07:16is if in advance of that, the party elders get together. You know, he says, OK, he does it on his
07:22own terms. And then, you know, the party picks somebody who agrees to maybe serve for one term
07:28because, you know, there are a lot of young guns who like one, you know, want to go for it in four
07:33years, who believed that whether Biden or Trump won, they would get their shot next time. So,
07:38you know, the party coalesces around someone. And I don't know who that person is who says I'll just
07:42do it for one term and then everyone else can have their shot. But it's a lot of moving pieces
07:48on a chessboard that, you know, doesn't really feel like it's there's enough runway in order to
07:53achieve any of that. And absent of that, let's say Biden wins or let's say Biden continues to run
07:59rather before the debate. Biden and Trump already neck and neck in the polls. Trump had the slightest
08:06hair of a lead. But do you think if Donald Trump is the nominee, Biden is the nominee,
08:13do you think Biden beats Trump? Is there a way that happens?
08:17I think if the election were to be held today, there's no doubt that Trump would be president
08:22of the United States again. The thing and we've talked about this before when I've come on,
08:26the thing about the media cycle and this sort of crazy new world that we live in is that, you know,
08:31in four days, there'll be a news press cycle. The problem with what happened last night
08:36is that it reinforced to the American voters their greatest fear about Joe Biden. And I'm not sure you
08:42can wipe away that impression. And if there is not a second debate in the fall, which if I were
08:48advising Donald Trump, I would say, why would you debate him again? I would say, you know, forget
08:52it. I'm not doing the ABC debate. And so I'm not sure there will be another debate in the fall.
08:57What can Joe Biden do on his own proactively? And what does Trump have to do in terms of missteps
09:05in order for Biden to really get back in play? And so I think you're really then going to see
09:11both sides try. Biden's got to put points on the board and Trump's got to play error free ball.
09:16And that would be the only way that this thing can turn itself around.
09:21Let's say you were consulting Biden. You were consulting the Biden team today.
09:26What do you say to them? How do they lessen the impact of of the debate last night?
09:33Again, look, the only way that you can, you know, knock down perception is with reality.
09:38And so they would have to show Biden would have to go out. Biden would have to go out. He has
09:42to do an interview. He would have to take some tough questions. He would have to look good.
09:45He would have to sound smart and cogent and coherent. And again, if they're not doing that,
09:50I think there's a reason they're not doing that. And so that's the bigger question mark. I think
09:55they're probably hoping next week is July 4th. Let's let a few days go by. Let's let the heat
10:00come down and then sort of recalibrate. But absent that, he's got to go out there.
10:07Today, after the debate, we're talking about not what he said, but how he said it.
10:12We saw a debate last night where Donald Trump did plow through many falsehoods,
10:18a lot of them going undetected, not rebutted by President Biden. President Biden came across as
10:24someone who was incoherent, who couldn't finish his sentence. And that went on for 90 minutes.
10:29So what do you think this is signaling to both our friends and enemies abroad?
10:34Well, and I'm glad you brought up that point, because while Biden clearly lost the debate,
10:39I'm not sure that Trump won the debate. I think Biden lost the debate. And I think the American
10:44people lost overall, given that these are our options at this particular stage. There were
10:48no heroes last night. But if you are a world leader, and I was saying this last night to
10:54friends while we were watching the debate, like if you are a world leader who wants to go after
11:00America, I would be looking like now's our chance, you know, let's take our shot, because it doesn't
11:04appear that anybody at the top is home. And that is a scary, scary thing internationally. So I think
11:11that that's another consideration Americans are going to, you know, have to grapple with as they
11:15make the decision. And again, I'm going to go back to the anger, I think that Democrats are feeling
11:20that they were lied to by people very high up in the White House, by senators, by cabinet members,
11:26all because those people wanted to retain their own power and their proximity to power.
11:31And what are the repercussions as a result of this? Losing an election is one thing,
11:35opening ourselves up on the world stage to potential threats is another.
11:39The anger is palpable in that respect. And this was already an election that there were
11:44going to be fears of low voter turnout. Do you think that if Biden is the nominee,
11:50there is this feeling of anger, not enthusiasm surrounding him? Do you think this is going to
11:55impact House and Senate races, too? It could. I mean, look, you always see a trickle down effect.
12:01And if you see Democratic voters, traditional Democratic voters stay home, then I think the
12:06odds of us picking up the House drop dramatically. And the Senate, because of the calendar year that
12:13we're in, you know, not every Senate seat is up every two years because it's a six year term.
12:18We already weren't favored to hold the Senate. So I think the Senate is probably gone. And I think
12:23that if you've got traditional Democratic voters who are not enthused to sit home,
12:27you are going to see a down ballot impact that's going to cost us. And aside from what how they
12:35were saying it, let's talk a little bit about what was said last night. Do you think either
12:39Trump or Biden laid out a really good, cohesive plan, a vision for how they're going to run the
12:46country? Should either of them win a second term? No, I mean, that was the worst part.
12:51There was a moment at the end that was almost comical, where they were arguing over golf.
12:55And, you know, Trump turns to Biden and says, let's not act like children, Joe. And I'm like,
13:00this is you know, these are our options. And so I mean, to the extent that they engaged in any
13:05conversation, it was mostly about things in the past, and it was bickering. And I really didn't
13:11hear a vision from either of them. But the truth of the matter is, given the split screen, and
13:16given how Biden looked, I don't even think people could have focused on the dialogue because
13:20everyone was so struck by the image. And, you know, someone told me once, you know, you know,
13:25you can tell if someone's good on TV if you mute the television and how they look and how they come
13:30off. And last night, it was it's almost like the sound didn't matter. So what are you looking for
13:36next when it comes to the DNC's in less than eight weeks, the RNC's a little sooner? What
13:43are you looking for between now and then and looking out the debate in September?
13:49Well, again, I'm not even sure there's going to be a debate in September. But if there is a debate,
13:54if Joe Biden is lucky enough, if Joe Biden is still on the ticket in September, and Joe Biden
13:58is lucky enough to get another shot, then he is going to have to be the Joe Biden that we saw
14:03at the State of the Union and not the Joe Biden that we saw last night. And between now and then,
14:07this is not something that can be accomplished through surrogates. This is not something that
14:11can be accomplished through ads. It's going to have to be him out taking questions on the trail.
14:17And we're going to have to cross our fingers and say a prayer that Trump does what Trump does,
14:22goes out, says things that are alienating, that are crazy, that make him come off unhinged,
14:28that remind people that it wasn't, you know, as much as we tell ourselves we were better off four
14:32years ago, COVID aside, than we are today. And you see that reflected in all the polls when you
14:38get asked that question, that it was unsettling to have a president who was, you know, tweeting
14:42at dictators, and that it was unsettling to have a president who was such a loose cannon,
14:47and that there is some good in predictability and stability. And so I think that we're going
14:52to need to see both of those two things happen. And as a Democrat, let's say Biden is off the
14:58ticket. Who would you want to see as the nominee? You know, I can't even engage in that like fantasy
15:06football. The problem is, the Democratic Party is a big tent party. And Kamala Harris being vice
15:13president sort of puts everybody in a little bit of a box. Because if you pass her over,
15:18and she would be the heir apparent, if you pass her over, you could see a real rift within the
15:25party. And if black women or women in general sit home, they are the backbone of the Democratic
15:31Party, then you are going to ensure a loss. And so again, I think that this would have
15:35to be some sort of move by the party elders who get behind somebody who can, we poll,
15:41we know can win, who will go in and say, I'll just serve one term. But, you know, listening to people
15:46banty about Gretchen Whitmer and Gavin Newsom, these people, it's like, okay, well, if it's
15:50Gavin Newsom, do we want to have a referendum on San Francisco and the current state of what's
15:55going on in San Francisco on the national stage and make that the face of the Democratic Party?
15:59Like, these things haven't been thought through. And they're so complicated. And we're so late in
16:04the calendar. And so look, I would love it if Barack Obama could run again. He can't.
16:09I don't know what the answer is. But hopefully, between now and the next few weeks, unless Joe
16:14Biden goes out and proves that last night was an aberration, we're going to need an answer.
16:18Melissa de Rosa, per usual, I appreciate you coming on.
16:21I'm already looking forward to our next conversation.
16:24Thanks so much, Brittany. Great to be back.