Jake Hughes-NEOM McLaren Formula E Team
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00:00Alright, we're here with Jake Hughes for Neom McLaren Formula E team. Jake, obviously, thanks
00:07for joining me. Appreciate the time to talk and it's been an exciting season for you recently.
00:11You got your first podium, really excited to see that for you obviously and I imagine
00:17that was pretty exciting for you as well. It had to be a pretty special moment.
00:20Yeah, first of all, thank you very much. And yeah, I was very, very excited but I keep
00:25saying to people this week so far that actually it was just more of a sense of relief. Just
00:31because I put on a lot of, I would say, positive pressure on myself. Like, I never really feel
00:37like any person, team, organisation could ever put as much pressure on me as I already
00:43put on myself. But it was more, because of that, it was more of a sense of how long was
00:48I going to go before I got the podium. You know, I was immediately from the first race
00:53of Season 9 in my rookie season, I was quick and I've seemed to have continued that through
00:57my Formula E career into the second season. But I've had strong races but not the podium.
01:02And it was just a box I needed to tick. It was like a weight off my shoulders in Shanghai
01:07Race 2 and now I feel like a lot lighter, I'd say, coming into this weekend.
01:12It definitely must have been a relief too. You kind of had a stretch there where things
01:15kind of weren't really going your way. You weren't able to break into the top 10 to be
01:18able to then have that podium. It also just, yeah, I mean, it must have been just a weight
01:22coming off your back. Yeah, exactly. We went, had a bad run, really,
01:28from Monaco, I think, all the way until Race 2 in Shanghai, actually, where I was in a
01:33good position. Aside from Race 1 in Shanghai, I was in a good position in Monaco and Berlin
01:37in all three races and potentially had a chance to get a podium, if not two podiums in Berlin
01:42with the energy I had towards the end of the race. But in every occasion, I lost my front
01:48wing in these sort of pack races. It's very easy to do that, but it was just a bit of,
01:53yeah, it was an unfortunate run of races. The longer it went on, the more it was frustrating
01:59me, because it wasn't a limitation of preparation, of talent, or skill, or pace, whatever you
02:10want to call it. It wasn't a limitation of that. It was just a bit unfortunate where
02:14these races were compromising me with damage, some of which were my own doing, some of which
02:18were other drivers doing. But I needed to get rid of that hoodoo, and getting that podium
02:25on Sunday in Shanghai definitely did that. And that's the one thing that's interesting
02:29about Formula E, right? It's different than some of the other racing series that are open
02:33wheel, where there is a lot more contact, and aggressiveness is kind of, you see a lot
02:38more in Formula E than maybe you say in Formula 1 or some other series, where drivers are
02:42maybe a little bit more conservative, trying to not damage the car and have to go into
02:47the pits. And that even is the same, you lose valuable positions, lose time on track. But
02:52it's a little different in Formula E. You've been in the series for two years, so I wouldn't
02:57say it's new for you, but it's definitely something that you still are adjusting and
03:00such to. What has that kind of been like, learning about dealing with the traffic in
03:04this series, especially with it still being open? Yeah, I mean, as you say, it's unlike
03:09any other open wheel racing series. I guess the two obvious ones are Formula 1 and IndyCar
03:14as comparisons. And I raced also in Formula 2 and Formula 3 for a long time. And in all
03:20those three or four categories, you have cars that are very biased towards aerodynamic grip,
03:27and that has the knock-on negative of a lot of dirty air. And that means that whether
03:32it's DRS in Formula 1, 2, and 3, or push-to-pass in IndyCar, you need that artificial kind
03:37of aid to help racing. Whereas in Formula E, because we rely a lot more on mechanical
03:43grip rather than aero grip, we don't really have dirty air. We have a tiny bit of it,
03:48but not anywhere near to the degree of those other series. And that means that the cars
03:52are half a tenth, one tenth apart in these races, rather than one and a half, two seconds.
03:58And that means that you add 22 world-class racing drivers into a four-second span on
04:04the road, you create contact. It's inevitable. And then obviously, at some point, if you
04:12hit someone too hard or someone brake-tests you or you get hit from the back into a car
04:15ahead of you, you're going to break things at some point. And the front wing has been,
04:19yeah, I think, how do I say? But it's been the bit that keeps hurting people's races,
04:27I would say. Sometimes it breaks and hangs down and rubs on the tyre, and that's been
04:32my issue, and that's been why I haven't scored the points I'd like to in the bulk of this
04:37part of the season, let's say between Brazil and Shanghai, where we had six events in 12
04:42or 13 weeks. And yeah, I think a lot of that is down to sometimes my understanding of these
04:49races and where to position the car, but other times it is just luck or bad luck. And I think
04:54that race two in Shanghai, I really felt like I turned a corner in how to manage these races
04:59and even how to avoid damage.
05:00This race is kind of interesting with the Portland race here this weekend. It's an energy-saving
05:05race, but it's also probably the biggest peloton race of the season, right? And the track can
05:09be a little tricky, especially on turn one. There was a lot of damage that happened last
05:14year. You obviously knew from being in the thick of things, obviously you didn't experience
05:18damage, but there was definitely a lot that happened in that first turn. So, I mean, just
05:22talk a little bit about this weekend and the challenging part of dealing with traffic,
05:26especially at a track like this that has some spots where it gets a little narrow, especially
05:30for the cars.
05:31Yeah, exactly. And for anyone that hasn't watched us, I guess the way to explain why
05:35we have these races are, you know, I guess a bit longer, a bit wider, a bit faster tracks
05:40where we effectively deploy more than we regen. We start the races with not enough energy
05:46to finish and that's the challenge of Formula E, is to find a way to get to the chequered
05:50flag faster than everyone else. But faster doesn't necessarily mean going flat out and
05:55equally on the other side of that coin doesn't mean saving the most energy. It's a balance
05:59between the two. And when you come to a track like this, the energy is more stretched or
06:04becomes more sensitive as we like to call it in the paddock. And that means that very
06:10often you get a situation where the leader changes once, twice a lap sometimes, but no
06:16one wants to lead until they have enough energy to go faster to defend the position. So that
06:20means that as soon as someone gets in the lead, they don't, I wouldn't say go as far
06:24as select reverse or, you know, trying, but they go slower, you know, they don't start
06:31spending energy because they're pushing the air. It's a bit like a cycling race in that
06:34sense where you don't want to be pushing the air for everyone behind because you're saving
06:38energy. Whether in cycling that's someone's legs behind, in racing, in Formula E, it's
06:42about battery or energy. So that means that we have these races where we can go four or
06:48five wide down the straight because it fans out a bit like a traffic jam that starts from
06:51the leader lifting and then everyone else behind fans out as the gaps appear and then
06:56immediately close. And you create these very fluid races where you can have, yeah, two,
07:01three, four lead changes a lap. You can get a couple of hundred overtakes in the race.
07:07You can be in these situations where you think you're down on energy and you need to save
07:12it and you lose four or five positions in two or three corners. And equally, if you're
07:1512th, 13th and mid pack and you need to get up to four, you think you need to be third
07:19or fourth, you can do that in one lap. So it's very fluid, it's very different and we're
07:24probably into it now as a paddock, as a series in terms of these races and I think everyone's
07:29coming to grips with it a lot more now.
07:32Is there a part of the track that you would say is kind of tough in terms of energy saving
07:35or you may lose a lot of energy at certain parts of the circuit? Is there kind of a spot
07:39at the circuit that you kind of pinpoint that maybe you lose a lot of the energy that's
07:43in the car?
07:44Yeah, well, I mean, we obviously do a lot of preparation before the event and there
07:48are corners here where we effectively don't get the region either because we can't deploy
07:54enough to get the region or because the corners, like for example, turn 10 at the end of the
07:59back straight here, it's a very fast corner. So we don't brake a lot for it, which means
08:03we don't charge, which means we can't deploy as much. But we don't just bias that all to
08:09that zone. We spread it out around the track. So for example, if you look at the two big
08:14straights of turn 1 and turn 10, it's a much bigger braking zone than turn 10. So we get
08:21a lot of charge, a lot of region back for that compared to turn 10. But we don't take
08:26that as we can go flat out into turn 1 and we have to save loads in turn 10. We balance
08:31it between the two and the car. We can set that all up with software, with the work we
08:35do with the engineers. And the car tells us in our ears via audio tones when to lift.
08:41And we can choose to ignore that as drivers if we want, if we think we need to in the
08:46certain moment. But no, we try and make it as even spread around the lap as a balance
08:52in terms of the energy management system as we can really. So that makes it faster, that
08:57makes it easier to race, that makes it better in terms of race result.
09:02Talking about this season as a whole, just generalistically speaking, again, we talked
09:06a little bit about, you know, you had this stretch where you just kind of weren't able
09:09to get things going. You kind of had a little bit of some bad luck, if you will, in terms
09:14of getting into some incidents. But, you know, how much confidence does that give you in
09:20terms of momentum, wanting to try to build to finish out these last four races strong
09:25and just have good finishes? I imagine there's kind of, there's definitely got to be just
09:28kind of that, you know, want in you, just especially after not maybe having things go
09:32your way.
09:33Yeah, absolutely. And that was what was building and therefore caused a sort of big sense of
09:37relief in Shanghai was, you know, even these races where we haven't scored the points,
09:41I've kept saying to, you know, whether it be my engineer, whether it be family, friends
09:45or whatever, even Ian, our team principal, that the performances have been good in those
09:51races. So, you know, there is a difference between performance and result. Of course,
09:57it is a results business and things get, you know, the whole world of motorsport is impacted
10:03by results, but it's the result is bad enough. But if the performance and the result is bad,
10:10then you can get yourself into a bit of a hole. But in those races, the performance
10:14has been good. Like I said, in Berlin, I could have easily walked away from that weekend
10:17with two podiums and I didn't get to show it. And of course, you could leave the weekend
10:22feeling frustrated because you don't have the points on the board. But, you know, when
10:26I go back home in between my own four walls, I know that on a different day, I could have
10:30got those results and I could be higher up in the championship. So you keep that in the
10:33back of your mind. And that's what I was trying to keep, you know, in terms of the belief
10:38moving into every single race and eventually in Shanghai race two, it came off. And then
10:43it's the same now, one month later coming into Portland that I know the performances
10:47have been there more often than not. And it's just about staying out of trouble and executing.
10:51How important is your relationship with Sam Bird? Obviously, it's been challenging for
10:56Sam. He had the injury he dealt with, so you didn't get to have Sam for the full season
11:00missing a few races. But how important is that relationship with him and, you know,
11:04bouncing ideas, bouncing feedback from each other? I know he's in a different car and
11:08experiencing things that are differently, but there's a lot of things that you guys
11:11can gain from each other and also get the car quicker, make it faster and find ways
11:16to be able to get points and score podiums and finish well.
11:20It is vital for any team, really, any racing team. I mean, it's not every single year in
11:27most sport that you're fortunate enough, as I think I've been in my two years in Formula
11:32E with the two teammates I've had, to get on so well with them. You know, certain people
11:37can start to play mind games and mess about, and I've never been one for that. I feel like
11:42I see straight through it and I instantly sort of back off from them. But with Rene last
11:47year and now Sam this year, the personal relationship has been brilliant. I've got on really well
11:51with them. Sam's one of my best racing mates I think I've had in my career. And I didn't
12:00really know him before this year. I mean, I know him as a racing driver, but I didn't
12:03know him personally. And he's a great guy. Like I said, we get on really well. And then
12:07because we have such a good personal relationship, we can get on really well with how we collectively
12:15give our message to the engineers, to the team, to make the car and everything, you
12:19know, either go quicker or better. If we're not getting on well, if we don't really see
12:24eye to eye, then that only impacts the team. So it's a vital relationship that the two
12:29drivers have together to work well together. And fortunately, we're very good at that.
12:33And Sam's brought a lot to the table for us as a team this year. You know, he's very,
12:37he's, what he doesn't know about Formula E is not really worth knowing. You know, he's
12:40been in there since race one. So he's brought a lot to the table and I've learned a lot
12:44from him.
12:45So two more questions touching base on Sam and obviously the race when he had earlier
12:49this year at Sao Paulo, what does that do from a team's perspective, especially on your
12:54side when you have him win a race at Sao Paulo is obviously a very exciting one came right
12:59down to the wire. But I imagine that's definitely got that race win has to trickle throughout
13:04the team and definitely give you guys that, that confidence and that momentum heading
13:08into the rest of the season. I know things haven't worked out your way, but I definitely
13:11imagine that winning races like that. There's a lot of things you could probably take away
13:14from that, that you could use in other reasons. Yeah, absolutely. I think the Sam's race when
13:19in Portland was probably quite similar to my, let's say more personal side with my podium
13:25in Shanghai, where I said it was a bit of a relief. I think with the team, um, you know,
13:30from the start of gen three or in season nine, we've had good results, but it's been a bit
13:33more up and down than we would like. I think it's fair to say. Um, and yeah, we didn't,
13:39we didn't really get that race win until, until season 10 in Brazil with Sam. And I
13:43think for everyone in the team, it was so nice to see everyone so happy and so smiley
13:48and you know, you know, we can do that sort of thing. And then for me, how I reacted to
13:52that, I knew, I already knew it anyway. I knew we had the best team on the grid and,
13:57you know, get on really well with everyone. We have one of the best working relationships
14:00as a group. Um, so I knew the car, I knew we'd be capable of doing that. But when you
14:05see your teammate do it, then it's only, uh, it's almost like the last box to tick in terms
14:10of, Oh yeah, we can do that. Um, and okay. I haven't won the race. I'm one of my first
14:14every race yet, but I know it will arrive. Um, and Sam's weighing and my podium in Shanghai
14:19are only two, um, two good reasons for that. Last question. A little bit lighthearted here
14:25with this question. You guys made donuts yesterday. I saw the video. It was like going viral.
14:29It looked like overall, what was the, uh, what was the reception? Do you have a, a donut
14:36making career potentially on the side? Absolutely not. I, uh, I think I was the worst out of
14:41the six. Um, we finished third as a team, which I can hold my hand up and say it was
14:45down to me. Um, Sam, I think actually, I think we should have won because of Sam, to be honest,
14:50Sam managed to perfectly execute papaya icing, which I don't know how he did. Um, I heard
14:57it was curry apparently. Yeah. It looked like curry. It looked a tiny more shades from papaya.
15:03It wasn't quite papaya, but it was very close. Um, and I think we should have won just for
15:08Sam's, um, creativity on that side of things, but I wasn't good. My donut, every time I
15:13picked it up, it snapped in half. I think I'm just too strong. Well, I heard there was
15:15a little bit of shenanigans that were happening. I think Lucas Degrassi or one of them had
15:20did some shenanigans. I don't know. Maybe, uh, in my opinion, I think they look great.
15:24So we could have a Stewart's inquiry. Yeah, exactly. Well, Jake, thank you so much. Appreciate
15:29that getting to talk to you. Good luck this weekend and hopefully you find some success
15:33here at Portland. Pleasure. Thank you.