A heated exchange erupted between Senators Nancy Binay and Alan Peter Cayetano during the first Senate panel hearing that seeks to review the construction of the New Senate Building (NSB) on Wednesday, July 3.
READ MORE: https://mb.com.ph/2024/7/3/binay-alan-cayetano-clash-at-senate-panel-hearing-on-new-senate-building
READ MORE: https://mb.com.ph/2024/7/3/binay-alan-cayetano-clash-at-senate-panel-hearing-on-new-senate-building
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00:00If I may, I just asked you, how much is the budgetary cost estimate of DPWH in the core and shell?
00:12So while you're looking, we recognize Senator Nancy and she's welcome to ask questions.
00:18Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Even if I'm not a member, but I heard that you said at the beginning of the hearing that I am more than welcome to attend.
00:29Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
00:31Mr. Chair, Your Honor, the Mayowa for Phase 1 is 8.9.
00:38Okay. And then, that's 8.9, right? So 8.9.
00:44Just to be clear, 8.9 including variation orders. If you exclude the variation orders.
00:52Mr. Chairman, it's the budgetary cost estimate.
00:56Yes, including. Because when they estimated it first, there was no variation order, it was only 8.1.
01:02But the budgetary cost estimate is 8.06. But the budgetary cost estimate is 8.9.
01:12You're talking about the ABC. The winner was 8.06.
01:208.9 is the budgetary cost estimate. There's a difference to the actual amount awarded.
01:27There's a difference in the budgetary cost estimate. And there's also a difference when the variation order is included.
01:34But what I'm interested in right now is how much is the budgetary cost estimate.
01:39It's 8.9 billion for the budgetary cost estimate. The ABC is 8.5.
01:47And then, how much is the budgetary cost for the fit-out? Estimate. Budgetary cost estimate.
01:56So it's 2.5.
02:00And for the works to complete, what is the budgetary cost estimate?
02:06For the works to complete, it's 7.359 billion pesos.
02:14Do you have a calculator? Can you give me the total?
02:2018.7 billion. Is that correct?
02:25So it's correct that on your documentation, there's no such thing as 23 billion for DPWH.
02:34So I think you don't need to apologize.
02:41This is their presentation. There's 21.7 billion. If you add the land cost, it's 23 billion.
02:48This was submitted by them.
02:50But we're talking about... Do you have documentation about the land cost?
02:54Does the money of the land cost pass through you?
02:56Senator Nancy, what we're talking about is building, not work.
03:02Ma'am, let's calm down so that we can get the numbers right.
03:06I showed the video that she's saying 5.7.
03:10Which is the document...
03:12Even in the document that you're holding, there's no 23 billion.
03:1621.7 billion and then 23.
03:19You're reacting to what Senator Escudero said, that 23, which was submitted to us by the SCT,
03:26which were all your staff, and which I released to the media.
03:30And you've been going around saying our numbers are wrong.
03:33So if it's wrong, correct it.
03:35But the number that was given to us by your staff, and you've been going around telling people
03:41where we came from and it came from your staff.
03:44So what's the problem?
03:46Mr. Chairman, what I'm asking is per documentation of DPWH.
03:51This is their documentation. 21.7 plus 3.
03:56I didn't submit DPWH to the media and that's not what Senator Escudero said.
04:02What Senator Escudero said came from the SCT, your staff.
04:06So what's the issue?
04:07Actually, Chairman, I think you're making a mistake.
04:10What's the issue?
04:11Phase 3, in your records, it's 10 billion?
04:15The records of the SCT, Senator Binay, that was given to me by the SCT.
04:22Who are your staff?
04:23So what's the problem?
04:25No, no, ma'am. You're messing up the hearing.
04:27There's nothing to be messed up.
04:28That's what was submitted to me.
04:30So if you're going to say it's wrong, what's the correct number?
04:33That's what was submitted to me by your staff.
04:36What we're talking about now is the size of DPWH.
04:39Yes, and what we're talking about with Sec Sadain, what he said was 5.7, which is 7 point something.
04:46In the proper context, because to be fair to DPWH.
04:50He really said it's wrong, not 5.7. It was 7 point something.
04:54You need to apologize for the 23 billion.
04:56No, no, no. You're listening wrongly.
04:59I asked them to apologize for saying it's 5.7 when in fact it was 7 point something.
05:06Mr. Chairman, you're...
05:07No, no. Listen to me first.
05:09Can we go back?
05:10Listen to me first.
05:11I'm still the chair.
05:13No, no. The problem with you is that you keep going around saying,
05:16I want to talk to Alan, I want to talk to Cheese.
05:18We met at the party. We have a cell phone. You're not talking to us.
05:21Then you're messing up the hearing.
05:23Let me continue.
05:25I told Sec that there's no 23B.
05:29Because there's no 23B.
05:31That's the 23B. That's the 23B submitted by your SCT staff.
05:38You told me not to remove it.
05:41Mr. Chairman, proper context.
05:43So what's the issue?
05:44What did you say? The cost of building a building is 23B.
05:51Senator Escudero said, so far, the total cost of having a new building is already at 23.
06:01And that's what the SCT gave me, including the cost of land.
06:09So what's the issue?
06:11There's no issue. They really submitted 23B to us.
06:15If you want to tell me that all of your staff are wrong and you have different numbers,
06:19you're welcome to submit.
06:20But how can you argue with what they submitted to me?
06:23And how can we argue with what the Senate President said?
06:28You know, because proper context.
06:30When the statement was issued, your statement is from the original core and shell budget of P8.9B
06:39to a projected completion cost of P23.3B.
06:45And we're talking about the new Senate building project.
06:48There are components that are not part of the construction of the new Senate building.
06:55We clarified that. If you were listening, we clarified.
06:59During the time of Senator Laxon, it was said that the 7-floor building has no fit-out.
07:05That's not it.
07:06You're proposing a fit-out.
07:08So we will consult the 24 senators if they will allow additional billions for a fit-out.
07:15So why are you so angry with me that I'm reviewing that amount?
07:19You've been at your table for 15 months and you haven't reviewed it.
07:22Mr. Chairman, I'm not angry with that amount.
07:25You've been angry for a long time. We're about to finish.
07:28I don't understand what issue you have with 23B.
07:31Give me the other amount and I will release it to the media.
07:35That's the amount that your staff gave me.
07:38What we're talking about now is the cost of construction of the building.
07:43What we're talking about is the total cost of the building.
07:46No one is buying a house where the cost is divided.
07:50If you're going to buy a house, you will ask the broker all in all, including taxes.
07:57But Mr. Chairman, if you're going to build a house,
08:00you will not include the refrigerator and TV as cost of the building.
08:05You don't have a refrigerator and TV.
08:08In the competition of DPWH, it's not divided. Is that right?
08:12It's not refrigerator and TV, ma'am.
08:15For example, cyber security, is it divided?
08:18Ma'am, what is your intention in disturbing our hearing?
08:21I'm not disturbing the hearing.
08:22It's 23B total. No one said that it's 23B total DPWH.
08:28No one said that.
08:29You invented a lot of things in the media.
08:32I didn't invent anything.
08:34You have 10 interviews. Maybe this is Makati Taguig.
08:39You didn't change the question on the radio.
08:42All of them are the same question. It's exact.
08:45It's obvious that you gave the question.
08:47What is the relationship between...
08:49I will not give questions to the media, Mr. Chairman.
08:53Maybe you will do the questions given to the media.
08:59Ma'am, 10 interviews, all of the questions are exact.
09:03Coincidence, you're good.
09:04Maybe...
09:05Last night...
09:06Last night...
09:07Maybe you will do the questions given to the media.
09:10This is not what they said on the radio.
09:12The point is, ma'am, can we stick to the issue?
09:15No, ma'am.
09:16No one will bring up other issues.
09:18If they want to explain DPWH, they cannot explain it properly.
09:23Let's explain it.
09:24Our visitors to DPWH, I'm sorry.
09:27That's what I'm telling you.
09:29There are 24 senators with different opinions.
09:32If the issue is clear, you will mess up the issue.
09:35I'm not messing up the issue, Mr. Chairman.
09:37Okay.
09:38I just want to clarify.
09:39Even if the issue is messed up.
09:40Ma'am, the issue is not messed up.
09:42The clarity of the issue is that 23 billion came from your staff.
09:45You are the one who goes to the media, to the radio,
09:47if there's any violation, if you're telling me anything.
09:50You said someone is stabbing you in the back.
09:52You were accused of attempted murder.
09:54Who is stabbing you in the back?
09:56I don't know anything about that.
09:57Okay, I will ask you later who is stabbing you.
10:00But it's not me.
10:01What do I know about that?
10:02Actually, Mr. Chairman, did I say it's you?
10:05I'm not saying it's you.
10:07How can you tell the media that someone is stabbing you in the back?
10:14What will they think?
10:16But didn't I say that Peter Cayetano is stabbing me?
10:20Didn't they say that when you react like that, you might be guilty?
10:23Ma'am, I will tell you something.
10:25Your name is Lourdes, not Marites.
10:27So let's fix this.
10:30It's embarrassing.
10:31We are not Marites, Mr. Chairman.
10:3323 billion.
10:34So what do you want to clarify there?
10:36Let's include it in the record.
10:38What do you want to clarify?
10:39According to the DPWH, based on their records,
10:42how much is the amount to them?
10:45Here, ma'am.
10:46I'm showing it to you, ma'am.
10:47It's on their mic.
10:49Is that 23 billion?
10:51It's 21.730.
10:53But is that 23 billion?
10:55If you add the land.
10:56But it's not 23 billion.
10:58Who told them that the DPWH said that the amount is 23 billion?
11:02Maybe we should go back to the transcripts of your interviews.
11:06Ma'am, I don't have an interview.
11:08Ma'am, I don't have an interview.
11:10Ask the media. They are mad at me.
11:13Look at Selly.
11:14I wasn't able to greet her on her birthday.
11:16I wasn't able to open her text because I told them,
11:19I'm sorry, I want to be fair.
11:21I have nothing to talk about.
11:22I don't have an interview.
11:24I asked Ninong Noli de Castro.
11:26He called me.
11:27I didn't have an interview.
11:28I have a lot of friends in the media.
11:30I didn't have an interview, right?
11:32So what is the transcript that you're saying?
11:34So if we go back to that, Mr. Chairman,
11:37where did the 23 billion come from?
11:39It came from the memo that was given by the senator.
11:41Who announced the 23 billion in the media?
11:43It came from the SCT.
11:45No, my question is who announced the 23 billion in the media?
11:49Who announced it, Mr. Chairman?
11:51It's not you.
11:52So who announced it?
11:54Senator Escudero.
11:55So who announced the amount of 23 billion?
11:58You said that you will have an interview.
12:02It was Senator Escudero, Mr. Chairman,
12:05who announced the amount of 23 billion.
12:09And you admitted, ma'am, that your former staff, the SCT,
12:13they submitted the 23 billion.
12:15Who submitted the SCT?
12:17You also said that DPWH is the resource person.
12:22Yes, and no one said that...
12:24You're confusing me, ma'am.
12:25I'm asking, in the records of DPWH,
12:29does the 23 billion come out?
12:32That's all I'm asking you, Mr. Chairman.
12:35I already answered you, ma'am.
12:36It comes out as 21.73.
12:39It's not 23 billion, Mr. Chairman.
12:42Do your math. 21 is not 23.
12:45No, ma'am. Let's repeat the video.
12:4821 and 23.
12:50For the record, it's 23 billion with the land.
12:56No, for the record, it's 21.73.
12:59Let me finish to satisfy you, okay?
13:03Let me clarify.
13:05There's no going back. Let me clarify.
13:10I asked the SCT to submit to me the total.
13:16They submitted 23 billion with the land.
13:20I submitted this to the Senate.
13:22Ma'am, let me finish.
13:24This is done. I'm done.
13:26This is done, ma'am. Stop confusing me.
13:29You're confusing me, Mr. Chairman.
13:31It's clear now.
13:32No, Mr. Chairman.
13:33It's clear, ma'am.
13:34You said earlier that this hearing is for DPWH.
13:38Ma'am, let's go back.
13:39We're asking as per records of DPWH.
13:43Ma'am, let's go back.
13:44We don't have 23 billion.
13:46Well, the chair is making a statement.
13:48Will you allow the chair to make a statement?
13:50Okay. I'm sorry, Mr. Chairman.
13:52So, after the SCT submitted the 23B,
13:56we got their preliminary insights.
13:59It came from them.
14:01I submitted it to Senator Escudero.
14:04In his words, he gave a speech.
14:09Based on the speech,
14:11you said, where did the 23B come from?
14:14Yousef Sadein and Ma'am Soledad had an interview.
14:18They said, it's a...
14:21I don't want to make a mistake.
14:22What came out earlier?
14:24They said it was 5.7B.
14:28So if you add it all up,
14:30it's like 16.
14:31It's far from 23.
14:33So during the course of the hearing,
14:35if you were listening, Ma'am,
14:37he showed it as 21.7B.
14:39So I referred to him.
14:41I said, sir,
14:42if you look at your own document
14:45and the one submitted by Assistant Secretary Molano,
14:49it was 7 point something B.
14:53So it's close to 23 or 23 if you include the land.
14:58So don't you owe us an apology
15:00because you said...
15:01Let me finish.
15:02Don't you...
15:03Because it was...
15:04You said 5.7 at 16B.
15:07It's like we invented it.
15:09We didn't invent it.
15:11Now, if you want to say 23B was invented,
15:16then show me what the numbers is
15:18and I will talk to the SCT.
15:20Why did you invent it?
15:22If they invented it.
15:23But if not,
15:24and they really gave it to me at 23,
15:26what is the issue?
15:27Don't go back and forth.
15:29DP is like that.
15:30This was submitted by DPWH, 21.7.
15:33That's their report on Channel 7.
15:35All the people in this room,
15:37all the people watching the media,
15:38understood it.
15:39So we're done there.
15:42That's clear.
15:43So your money is 21.7.
15:46The land is not yours.
15:49What is the issue?
15:52That's what they submitted.
15:54Mr. Chairman,
15:55do you have 21B?
15:57No.
15:58None.
15:59Are you familiar with the terms
16:01on acquiring the lot?
16:03You don't know either, right?
16:06It's too far.
16:07You're the one asking, Mr. Chairman.
16:09Ma'am, the lot is not there, 21.
16:11Ma'am, DPWH gave it to me.
16:13The problem is you're not listening.
16:15That's it, Mr. Chairman.
16:16You don't know how to read.
16:1921 became 23.
16:21I didn't say 23 came from them.
16:24Ma'am, make your point and then move on.
16:28Move on because you're out of order.
16:30My point is, Mr. Chairman,
16:32on the part of DPWH,
16:35it's 21.7B.
16:36There's no such thing as 23B.
16:40The money is in your mic, 21.7B.
16:44Is it still in your mic?
16:46There it is.
16:4721B?
16:49Chairman, Chairman.
16:51Yes.
16:52Is it okay if we move on to suspend?
16:57Is it okay if we suspend?
17:00We're about to finish.
17:01I want to finish so we can talk after.
17:03So I don't know.
17:04I want to give Senator Nancy all the chance
17:07rather than presscon after presscon.
17:09I'm not presscon after presscon.
17:12We're forced to answer.
17:15Because you're giving wrong statements.
17:20First of all, I don't have a statement in the media.
17:23How can I be wrong?
17:24You have a Facebook Live statement.
17:26You also have an interview.
17:28You should also have an interview, right?
17:30So you're right, I'm wrong.
17:32They said, this is their presentation on the mic.
17:3621.7B is available.
17:38Mr. Chairman, can I just hear from DPWH,
17:41on your end, does 23B exist for DPWH?
17:47Yes or no?
17:48It was in their presentation.
17:50That's what we're asking, Mr. Chairman.
17:51It's in the presentation.
17:53Yes or no, can they answer?
17:56On your end, DPWH,
17:58does the amount of 23B exist in your documents?
18:06USEC.
18:07There is none, Mr. Chair.
18:09Thank you.
18:10Sorry, sorry, ma'am.
18:11There is none.
18:12Excuse me.
18:14Order, order, order.
18:16Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
18:18My point, there's no such thing as 23B.
18:21Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
18:2321.7B.
18:25Kabuang, Canada.
18:27Let's finish this properly.
18:29This is the Senate of the Philippines, not a market.
18:40Thank you.