Interview with Joe Flamm about becoming a celebrity chef, promoting Balkan cuisine, and keeping it real on social media.
Years before winning Top Chef, Joe Flamm knew he wanted to be on television when he was a sous chef for Stephanie Izard on Food Network’s Iron Chef. When the opportunity to be on TV again came up, he jumped at it — propelling his career forward even more.
Years before winning Top Chef, Joe Flamm knew he wanted to be on television when he was a sous chef for Stephanie Izard on Food Network’s Iron Chef. When the opportunity to be on TV again came up, he jumped at it — propelling his career forward even more.
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00:00Welcome to Restaurant Influencers, presented by Entrepreneur.
00:09I am your host, Sean Walchef.
00:11This is a Cali BBQ Media production.
00:13We are coming to you live from the National Restaurant Association show in Toast's booth.
00:19So we are grateful to Toast.
00:20Toast is a primary sponsor of this show.
00:22They believe in storytelling, they believe in technology, and they believe in hospitality.
00:27And they've set up an incredible interview today.
00:29I can't wait to have my friend, my new friend, Chef Joe Flam.
00:35Welcome to the show.
00:36Super excited to be here.
00:37So I honestly didn't know anything about you until they said we have a celebrity coming.
00:43And I looked up and I'm like, oh my God, this guy is doing incredible.
00:47This is why I love this show.
00:48This is why I love the work that we do.
00:50This is why I love the relationship with Toast.
00:53Tell me about Rosemary.
00:54So Rosemary is a restaurant I opened three years ago here in Chicago.
00:59And it's basically the story of my life, my relationship, my wife, my family.
01:06My heritage is my mother's family is from Italy, they're from Molise, closer to the
01:12Adriatic side on the Italian border.
01:15And my wife's family is from Croatia.
01:17My father-in-law is from Herzegovina.
01:19My wife's first gen grew up here.
01:22And when we met, and I didn't know anything about Croatia, all I knew is that tall, beautiful
01:28women apparently came from there.
01:30That seemed good enough for me at the time.
01:33But the more I found out about it and found out about this food and this community, and
01:36it was incredible that it was strong here in the Balkan community, but there wasn't
01:41a lot of restaurants.
01:42There wasn't a lot of people cooking this food.
01:43There wasn't a lot of representation of it in the scene here in Chicago where there were
01:48so many people.
01:50And then when we went and traveled there, and I saw the food, you saw the Italian influence,
01:54but you also saw this Turkish, this Hungarian, this Austrian, this Macedonian, all these
01:59influences from other places.
02:01But it made sense to me, and kind of in my mind, I thought, well, if I use the things
02:05of like, I didn't know these flavors, I didn't know these things, but from the Italian technique
02:09that I've learned over years, I was like, I can cook this food.
02:12Like this food makes sense to me, I just haven't done it before.
02:15And so I thought it would be an interesting take to kind of just do Adriatic food and
02:20be able to use kind of the Italian technique I had learned and owned over years to be able
02:24to tell that whole Adriatic story and not just cut it off at the Friuli border and get
02:29into Istria, get into Dalbacia, and show this beautiful cuisine and culture that I think
02:35was kind of going under scene.
02:37So my wife is Bulgarian, I too married an Eastern European woman, and she told me when
02:43I came to Chicago to make sure to go to Bulgarian restaurants.
02:46And we've been so busy at the show, it's been an absolutely incredible show.
02:50But when I went to look at your restaurant and look at the photos, like it touched me.
02:55It touched me to see you moving Balkan food forward.
02:58Can you share a little bit about that bold step?
03:02Because knowing Eastern, I go to Bulgaria every summer with my family, we go from now
03:06that we're not in the restaurant.
03:08So we own restaurants, but we're not there like we used to be.
03:10So thankfully, I can go for a longer period of time.
03:13But when we go there, people in the Balkans are very particular about their food.
03:18It's village food.
03:20This is how my grandmother made it.
03:21And because my grandmother made it, often there's a skepticism that you can make it
03:26as good as my grandmother.
03:28Can you share about that bold step?
03:30And there are a lot of Eastern Europeans that are in the Chicago area.
03:33Right.
03:34And I think Balkan hospitality is like skepticism with kindness.
03:40He knows it.
03:41You know what I mean?
03:42Where it's like they're very nice, they're very welcoming.
03:45They're also wildly skeptical.
03:47Very skeptical.
03:48Of just like, what are you doing here?
03:49And it's like, they're excited you're there, they just don't understand why.
03:53Yes.
03:54You know, and so people would come into the restaurant, especially when I first opened,
03:58and I was super aware of that.
03:59You know what I mean?
04:00This is not the cuisine I grew up with.
04:01You know, this is a cuisine I adopted over the last 14 years of my relationship.
04:05You know, going, you know, I got married at the Croatian Catholic Church on the south
04:09side, going to the vele glospa, the lamb roast and all of that, you know, making a squat
04:14scratting the results with, you know, my wife.
04:18Did you have to bring anything to the priest?
04:19Aunts and cousins.
04:20No, we just, you know, bring a bottle of Schliva with us and call it a day.
04:24So like, this gets off track, but I'm going to tell you this story anyway.
04:29This is a storytelling podcast.
04:30This is why we do this thing.
04:31So like the setup for this church on the south side, where the Croats are, they call them
04:35Mojis here in Chicago.
04:36It's like the nickname.
04:37The Mojis.
04:38Yeah, that's like what the Italians call the Croatians.
04:40Okay, fair enough.
04:41So it's like the, they call it vele glospa, the Ascension of Mary Fest, the August 15th,
04:45fair go.
04:46So in Italian, they have this big lamb roast, and you know, everybody else in the neighborhood
04:49calls it Moji Fest, because it's just the Croatian Fest.
04:52Well, the way they have this church set up, it's like basically any other Catholic church
04:56of our city.
04:57You've got a church, you've got a school, you've got a rectory, you've got a bar behind
05:00the rectory so that, you know, when you're getting married, you can go do shots before
05:03the ceremony.
05:04Of course, of course.
05:05But then also right next to the church, a little block down, I think it's technically
05:08a park for tax purposes.
05:10They have the church owns 40 lamb roasting spits, just for vele glospa.
05:16So you go back there, there's like a picnic table, you walk me on the picnic table, and
05:19there's 40 lamb roasting pits with three table saws that are just meant for cutting up the
05:25lambs after they're done.
05:27So I saw these things, and I was like, this is incredible.
05:30Like, you know, I was like, there must be restaurants, there must be things, and there
05:33just wasn't.
05:34So I was very aware going into this that like, I'm doing something that is not of my childhood,
05:40it's not of my raising, but it's been of my life for the last, you know, 14, 15 years.
05:44So I did a ton of research, I read as much as I could.
05:47And whenever people wanted to come in and talk to me about it, I would listen.
05:50And I learned this from other chefs who were doing food outside of their realm.
05:55But and I was nervous, you know, I didn't know how people are going to respond to be
05:58like, hey, this isn't your place, this isn't, you shouldn't be doing this.
06:01But you know, when people would come in, that'd be the first thing they'd ask me, they'd look
06:04at me, and they'd be like, hey, this woman, I'm 55.
06:08She's from, you know, Montenegro, or Macedonia, or, you know, Herzegovina, like wants to talk
06:14to you.
06:15Correct.
06:16You know, because they come in, they see me, they'd see my last name, and they'd be like,
06:18this guy isn't one of ours.
06:19Yeah, you'd already be like, he's got this big Irish head, you'd already be like, there's
06:24no way.
06:25So I'd go over to the table, and the same thing every time they'd look at me, and they'd
06:27be like, and who are you?
06:28And I'd be like, I'm Joe, I'm the chef here.
06:31You know, what's your last name?
06:32And I'm like, Flam.
06:33You know, and they go, okay.
06:34Joe Flam.
06:35Okay.
06:36They're like, so where are you from?
06:37And I'm like, I'm from here.
06:38I'm from the South Side.
06:39Yeah.
06:40You know, but my people are from, you know, Ireland, and Germany, and Italy.
06:41And they go, okay.
06:42They go, so why are you doing this?
06:46And I was like, well, my wife is Delich.
06:49And then, you know.
06:50There you go.
06:51See, now you're name dropping.
06:52Now you're name dropping.
06:53You know, it would give you a little.
06:54Yeah, it's like, is that on Google Maps?
06:55Like, hey, this kind of guy's kind of legit.
06:56You know, and I go, so, you know, my wife's family is from there.
07:01My father-in-law's from Herzegovina.
07:02Yeah.
07:03You know, and I practiced saying that a thousand times, so, you know what I mean, didn't fuck
07:07it up.
07:08Get the villages down.
07:09Right.
07:10If you can name drop the villages and the regions, you're good.
07:12So, you know, that I would tell them.
07:14I said, you know, I love this food, and I wanted to be able to cook it, and tell this
07:17story, you know.
07:18And I always say, you know, I hope I'm doing a great job, you know.
07:20I'm still learning this.
07:21I'm still growing into this.
07:22I still, you know.
07:23I think I own more Croatian cookbooks in the United States than probably anyone.
07:27I bought like so many of them, you know, like I accidentally bought like one in German,
07:31and I was like, okay, this is useless.
07:33I'm trying to read Croatian recipes in German.
07:36Like this was a disaster.
07:39But I would kind of explain that.
07:40But, you know, then the feedback would be, they'd be like, well, we're so happy to see
07:43this food.
07:44Yeah.
07:45I had a woman come in after we opened it.
07:46It's like she started crying.
07:47Yeah.
07:48I believe it.
07:49I was like, she's like, I can't believe you're serving burek.
07:53And she's like, if like my grandmother saw like her food being served in a restaurant
07:58like this, like in the West Loop in Chicago, she's like, she would never believe it.
08:02Yeah.
08:03Like she would never believe that like their simple food is being served in a place like
08:07this being, you know, received like this, like coming in to be like, this is our food
08:12at a packed restaurant.
08:13Yeah.
08:14And people are clamoring for, you know, civap.
08:17And you know what I mean?
08:18That we're selling, you know, that we're buying, you know, right.
08:22Yeah.
08:23Just leave it.
08:24It's by like the 50 case because like we can't keep up with the demand.
08:27It's incredible.
08:29It's absolutely incredible for you seeing how far you've come with Rosemary.
08:34What's next for me next?
08:36You know, I think it's, you know, the next chapter is, I think I'll go back something
08:41a little bit more Italian when we do the next thing, getting something a little bit more
08:45focused Italian.
08:46And what that be, you know, we'll flush that out a little bit more.
08:50But going back into that.
08:51But I think for me also, like before I opened Rosemary, I was at Spiaggia for five and a
08:55half years.
08:56So we were cooking Italian food on one of the highest levels, you know, working for
08:59Tony Mantuano, being the only Michelin star Italian restaurant that's ever existed in
09:03Chicago.
09:04Wow.
09:05And so leaving there, I kind of didn't want to leave there to open there.
09:08Right.
09:09You know what I mean?
09:10I don't want to leave Spiaggia and open Spiaggia.
09:11I wanted to kind of make my own thing.
09:14And I think now being gone from there for three years, that place having, you know,
09:18kind of sunset at this point, I'm ready to get back into that full Italian thing.
09:23You know, when I opened Rosemary, I was like, oh, doing this kind of Croatian Italian food.
09:27I'm like, this is gonna be super niche.
09:28Like, I was like, this is gonna be really cool.
09:31I want to really do this.
09:32I think this is really cool.
09:33Yeah, I know some people think this is really cool, but I don't know.
09:37But I'm not sure what the market thinks.
09:39People are gonna get it.
09:40If it's a business, if it's a sustainable business.
09:42Right.
09:44This is gonna be cool.
09:45I think other chefs will think this is cool.
09:46I think, you know, people dig this restaurant, but I didn't know that, like, I was very nervous
09:51that like, this might not be viable commercially, like this might be a cool idea that we talk
09:57about 10 years later.
09:58Like, oh, well, that was a cool idea, though.
10:01And it's been so well received.
10:02It's been amazing.
10:03And now a quick break from restaurant influencers to welcome our newest sponsor to the show.
10:09It's Zach Oates, the founder of Ovation.
10:12Ovation is helping restaurants to improve operations with the human touch.
10:16We are a guest experience platform for multi-unit restaurants like Friendly's, Muya, PDQ, Taziki's,
10:22and even Cali BBQ, with thousands of others that starts with a two-question survey and
10:27drives revenue, location-level improvement, and guest recovery.
10:31So here's how it works.
10:32The guest answers two questions.
10:34The first one is, how was your experience?
10:35And then from there, happy guests are invited to do things that are going to drive revenue
10:40and unhappy guests share privately what went wrong so you and your team can resolve that
10:44concern in real time.
10:46Our AI will even help you do that.
10:48Then the magic happens.
10:49We take all the public reviews.
10:51We take all the Ovation feedback.
10:53We categorize it using our AI and give you detailed feedback in 34 restaurant-specific
10:59categories to improve your operations.
11:01So we make sure that guests feel good, that you look good.
11:04And if you're interested in learning more, visit OvationUp.com forward slash Sean, because
11:08any listener of Sean's is a friend of Ovation's.
11:18Talk to me about storytelling.
11:20How have you learned to find your voice?
11:22So much of what we do, I mean, we're a barbecue restaurant business that created a media company
11:27that now has a show for entrepreneur.
11:29We do other shows.
11:30We produce shows for other.
11:31We believe in telling your story on the internet.
11:33You have an incredible presence, not just on Instagram, but on all platforms.
11:38Can you share a little bit about when did that, how did that evolve?
11:41Yeah, I think, you know, I always like to think, you know, like from my Italian side
11:47is where we got all like the cooking from.
11:49We got the hospitality from, we got all that from.
11:52And from the Irish side, the Irish are storytellers.
11:55You know what I mean?
11:56My grandfather, he wasn't, you know.
11:57But in real life, storytellers, not so much online story.
12:00It's a big, there's a big disconnect between like, oh my God, there's people on the internet.
12:05Right.
12:06You know, it's like, call it whatever you want, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, whatever.
12:09But like, remove the logo and start telling, like, just do, just be you.
12:13Right.
12:14Right.
12:15When was the unlock for you?
12:16Right.
12:17And I think it was just like always.
12:18That's who I grew up.
12:19My grandfather was a lumber salesman.
12:21So you know what I mean?
12:22He was an old Irish lumber salesman.
12:24And like, and I grew up with him.
12:26You know what I mean?
12:27I spent so much time with him.
12:28So I was hanging out with a bunch of old Irish guys talking about selling wood and tennis
12:32and bullshit and, you know, betting on horse races and, you know, like, and I think it's
12:37just like, you just grew up in that.
12:39I grew up in a huge family.
12:40So if like you wanted to be heard, you better have something to say and it better be interesting
12:44or you're just going to get ran over.
12:47So it's like, if you wanted any sort of voice at the table, like you better be loud and
12:51it better be interesting.
12:52Tell me for the people that listen, we have restaurant professionals that are listening
12:56and they might be just that, but they're not using the tools that are in their pocket.
13:00Yeah.
13:02I mean, one of the things I work on with my chefs is, you know, I'm like, you got to get
13:05out to those tables.
13:06You got to talk to your customers, you know, like, you know, your regulars make it, you
13:10know what I mean?
13:11Those people who come in once, it's great.
13:12But those people who come in every other week who decide, you know, spend a good portion
13:16of their money with you is important.
13:18So and I'm also, you know, my thing is like, if you are not learning that part of the business,
13:23like one, you're missing out on my favorite part of it of like going, making those connections
13:28with guests, with other chefs, with other restaurant people, with, you know, people
13:31who live in your community, with people who are visiting your city and like making those
13:35connections like that's your best PR is that word of mouth going out there.
13:39And you know, I think that's, you know, a huge miss if you don't get that.
13:42But two, it's like knowing what people are saying, being able to go to a table, talk
13:45them about a dish.
13:46So it's like, I'll teach my crew.
13:48I'm like, even if they're really uncomfortable doing it, I'm like, all right, here is the
13:53ABC of how to talk to a table.
13:54Like go up.
13:55Like don't just go up and say hi.
13:56Go up and drop a dish.
13:57Tell them about the dish.
13:59Tell them why you like it.
14:00Say hi.
14:01Ask them if they've ever been there before.
14:02If they've been there before, be like, oh, cool.
14:04Ask them if they live in the neighborhood because they've been there before.
14:06They probably live in our city.
14:08They say they live in that neighborhood, whatever.
14:10If there's a restaurant you've been to in that neighborhood you like, make that connection.
14:13Oh, I love going to, oh, you live in Logan Square?
14:15I love Lula Cafe.
14:16It's one of my favorites.
14:17You guys ever get there?
14:18Oh, you got to.
14:19Or, oh, you know, Warlord's up there.
14:21I've been dying to get there.
14:22I really got to make it to it.
14:24And I go, you just had a connection with these people.
14:26It takes two minutes.
14:27Boom, you're back at the pass.
14:28But, like, you're learning how to break that barrier of just like, hey, here's your dish.
14:33Do you like it?
14:34Yes.
14:35That's not a connection.
14:36That's a, you know what I mean?
14:37That's an exchange.
14:38That's a, you know what I mean?
14:41That's purely transactional.
14:43And so I think it's so important, and, you know, when I came up in this, I fell in love
14:47with restaurants before I fell in love with cooking.
14:50So I worked at a bar and grill in a strip mall on the southwest side of Chicago.
14:54And, like, the people I worked for there, they weren't great chefs.
14:58They weren't great mixologists.
15:00They were great bartenders.
15:01Yes.
15:02Like, they were great neighborhood bartenders.
15:04It was the kind of place where it's like, they knew the guys, but they had too much.
15:06They'd be like, Joe, you're delivering pizzas tonight?
15:09Cool.
15:10Take that guy, make him a pizza, grab a six or a light out of the cooler.
15:13You're going to drive him home.
15:14We'll take, you know, you and Johnny are going to go drop his car off in the morning.
15:17And it was like, that was like ultimate southside hospitality.
15:20It's like, you know, you were leaving with your dignity, your six pack and a pizza.
15:24And it was like, you know, and that was like the level of it.
15:26And, you know, which I didn't understand at the time, but now it was like, that was kind
15:30of my stomping grounds for it.
15:31So I fell in love with that end of like, you know, and these bartenders, these baddies,
15:36they were great storytellers.
15:37Great.
15:38They would be behind the bar and they could captivate, you know, 15 rowdy people with,
15:42you know, just tales of, you know, like, of work and of whatever and just debauchery.
15:47And it was like, I was like, it's the coolest.
15:50Tell me about insta.flamp.
15:54So that's his handle.
15:55So we're going to put a link in the show notes so you can follow all the storytelling that
15:59he does online.
16:00But tell me about it.
16:01Yeah.
16:02I mean, you know, the social media thing, it's kind of, it was one I was like late to,
16:05I was kind of like, I don't know.
16:06And when I started at Spiaggia, they were like, oh, you should do more of that.
16:09It's becoming a thing.
16:10It's becoming a thing.
16:11And I'm like, okay.
16:13And so, you know, I just have fun with it.
16:16Like mine's not overly curated.
16:18It's like a messy.
16:19It's like, you know, it's like, I'm a chef.
16:21I'm a dad.
16:22I'm a husband.
16:23I'm a South Sider.
16:24I'm a Chicagoan.
16:25You know, and it's like, I'm a Bears fan, like I'm a Sox fan and it's like all those
16:29things.
16:30And it's like, I feel like there's people who it's like, they do it a lot better and
16:34it's perfect and it's nice.
16:35But it's like, that's not me.
16:36That's, you know what I mean?
16:37I'm not perfect.
16:38I'm not nice.
16:39I just kind of, you know, it's like all of that.
16:41And I think that's what makes it fun.
16:42I think it's cool to like, be able to connect with people all over, especially like in the
16:48industry where it's like, you know, I have chefs who it's like, I've met once.
16:53You know, like I have a buddy in Alaska.
16:55He's in Juneau.
16:56He's got a little shoe on.
16:57Bo and I met in real life.
16:59One time.
17:00One time.
17:01When he was for the James Beard Awards last year.
17:02He came into the restaurant.
17:03Finally gave him a big hug.
17:05Talked for like an hour and a half.
17:06It was like, we just talk on Instagram because like, I like the food he cooks.
17:10Correct.
17:11He likes the food I cook.
17:13That's what I mean.
17:14And it's like fun.
17:15And it's cool that it's like me and a guy in Juneau can chop it up about pizza dough
17:19or pasta.
17:20Or you know, if you play dad rock in the dining room, if you sell more steaks.
17:26Do you play dad rock in the dining room?
17:27That's his thing.
17:28That's what he told me.
17:29He's like, you know, like when he does steak specials.
17:31So he drives revenue.
17:32Dad rock.
17:33Breaking news.
17:34He's like, I have this theory that if you play dad rock in the dining room, you'll sell
17:39more steaks.
17:40People said, I want to buy a steak.
17:42And so I also think he's right.
17:45I tried it.
17:46And I think he's right.
17:47You might be right.
17:48I think it's right.
17:49I have no, like, maybe Toast can pull some data out of this and pull it for me.
17:53They have some analytics.
17:54Toast has some benchmarking.
17:55I don't know if they've gotten in the audio storytelling of like ambiance, but we know
18:00some people.
18:01Right.
18:02Like they have a graph of Steve Wynwood versus, you know, steaks sold.
18:05I'd be really interested.
18:06Next time I'm at a customer advisory board meeting, I'm a hundred percent going to bring
18:09that up.
18:10That is phenomenal.
18:11It's tell me about TV.
18:17So you know, yeah.
18:19So give me a lesson.
18:20Give me a story.
18:21Give me a story from TV.
18:22So, you know, it's funny.
18:23I did.
18:24The first thing I ever did was when I worked for Stephanie Izzard, I was her sous chef
18:29and she was going on the old Iron Chef as a challenger.
18:32So she had a competition between all the cooks, all the sous chefs to see who would be her
18:37second sous chef to go on it.
18:39So this Iron Goat competition, they called it, they brought in cameras, everything to
18:42make it feel like cooking on TV and like surprise ingredients.
18:45And we cooked in two heats.
18:48And I won that to get to go on Iron Chef.
18:51So that was my first experience ever TV cooking.
18:54And I remember just being like so nervous and just like shaking, just like, you know,
18:59it was so overwhelming, but like, so like the adrenaline rush was like through the roof.
19:06And I was like, oh, that's cool.
19:07I got to do that again.
19:08So, yeah, I hope, you know, like I was like a, you know, low level sous chef at the time.
19:14I was like 26.
19:15I was like, I'd love to do that again.
19:17So years later, I'm at Spiaggia.
19:21I've been the chef there for a couple of years.
19:23Tony calls me one day.
19:25He's like, hey, he's like, you at the restaurant?
19:28I was like, yeah.
19:29He's like, the producers from Top Chef are in town.
19:31He's like, they held the casting.
19:32They didn't find anybody they liked.
19:34They called me.
19:35They asked.
19:36He was on Top Chef Masters.
19:37He was on Saron.
19:38If I knew anybody they should meet, I told him they got to meet you.
19:42No pressure.
19:43He's like, you should take a meeting.
19:46I go, I don't know.
19:47I don't know if I want to do that right now.
19:48He goes, take a meeting.
19:49I was like, all right, sure, fine.
19:51You know what I mean?
19:52Whatever.
19:53Tony doesn't ask for much.
19:54He's my guy.
19:55Fine.
19:56So these, you know, the two producers, they come over, sit down, talk for an hour.
20:00I'm like, they're not going to want me.
20:02Yeah.
20:03You know what I mean?
20:04I'm like, why would they want me on this show?
20:05I'm not an interesting guy.
20:07They're not going to care.
20:08I talked to these ladies for like an hour.
20:09They were great.
20:10At the end of it, the woman goes, she goes, you should do this.
20:14And I was like, and it's a long process to get out of.
20:16It's not just simple as like, hey, we like you.
20:18There's like six more rounds.
20:20She's like, it's a long process, but she's like, you should go through it.
20:25And I was like, okay, maybe, you know, so I called my wife.
20:28I talked to my chef and they're like, yeah, you should try.
20:31Like everything's working out right now.
20:32I didn't have kids yet.
20:34Restaurant was in a good place.
20:35So I was like, okay.
20:36So I started going through the process.
20:37I had a lot of friends who had gone through the process, who made it to a certain point
20:41and they got cut.
20:42So I'm like, I'm going to make it to that point.
20:44I'm going to get cut.
20:45So I keep making, I make it another round, make it another round.
20:49Finally I get to like the last round.
20:52And they're like, yeah, you got to fly out to LA and you got to do in-person interview.
20:56You got to do a physical and you have to do, uh, really, you have to do like a, a psychological
21:05interview.
21:06Okay.
21:07Well, I was like, well, I'm going to Italy.
21:08I was like, I have stages set up.
21:10Yeah.
21:11I'm, you know, to be like, I got this trip planned already.
21:13I'm like, I can't come to LA.
21:15So I was like, I just, I've, I've fucked this.
21:17I don't know if I'm supposed to say fuck on this.
21:19That's fine.
21:20No, you're fine.
21:21It's entrepreneur.
21:22They're all, we're all business owners here.
21:23So I'm like, you know, whatever, maybe another time, but I'm not going to skip Italy to do
21:27stages.
21:28I had set these up.
21:29I was going, you know, so they're like, all right, it's cool.
21:31You can do a physical in Chicago.
21:33You can go see this therapist at his house in the suburbs and you can do a Skype call
21:37in Italy.
21:38This is 2017 like wifi in Italy at this point is more of a, you're lucky idea than a concrete
21:46thing.
21:48So by the time I get to that interview, I'm staying at my sous chef's parents' house in
21:53a suburb of Florence.
21:57And like, I'm trying to do this thing, but I can't tell him what it is because I'm not
22:00allowed to tell anyone I'm interviewing for the show.
22:02It's not working.
22:03It's not working like hours.
22:04I'm also trying to cook the family dinner because it's my last night there and I want
22:07to thank them for letting me stay.
22:09So I'm like roasting a pork wrasse rack on this hearth outside, trying to FaceTime these
22:14producers in LA, the whole disaster.
22:17After like three hours, I ended up just getting on a phone call with them.
22:20I'm like, get off the phone.
22:21I was like, disaster.
22:22I was like, I just blew it.
22:25This isn't happening.
22:26I'm like, you know what?
22:27I'm in Italy.
22:28I'm cooking dinner.
22:29I was at Dario Cecchini's butcher shop earlier.
22:31I bought this pork rack.
22:33I'm making dinner for these wonderful people.
22:34I make dinner.
22:35We sit up late, drinking Amaro, smoking cigarettes at the kitchen table.
22:39Like I have one of the best nights of my life just talking shit, hanging out.
22:43Get back.
22:44Top Chef people call me and I'm like, Hey, I know I didn't go well.
22:48It's fine.
22:49Look, we want you to do one more zoom interview.
22:51And I was like, okay, sure.
22:55Do the last zoom interview.
22:58This is like April.
23:00Two weeks later, I get a call.
23:03They're like, Hey, you need to be in Colorado, May 5th.
23:07For how long?
23:08For two months.
23:09For two months.
23:10And you can't tell anybody where you go.
23:12So it's like I tell my wife, I can tell my chef, a couple people at work, but I couldn't
23:15tell my cooks.
23:16So I'm telling my cooks, I tell my family, like, Hey, Tony's got another restaurant in
23:20Florida.
23:21They need help out there.
23:22I'm going to go out for two months and I'm going to get that one back up to speed.
23:26And you know, and they're all like, this is bullshit, this is bullshit, chef.
23:28They can't send you, they can't ship you out to fucking Florida, blah, blah, blah.
23:32They're sending you to Disney, like, we'll come down with you, blah, blah, blah, blah.
23:36And I'm like, no, it's good, guys.
23:38This is what it's about.
23:39It's about being flexible in this business, Tony's my help, I'm going to help him out.
23:44And so, you know, I have to go, I leave for two months and it's like, you're off the grid.
23:48Yeah.
23:49You can't post anything, you can't tell anyone.
23:51You don't have your phone.
23:52What?
23:53And they make it sound like before you go, they're like, oh, yeah, you need to send an
23:57email.
23:58Yeah.
23:59Call, phone call.
24:00And you get there, they lock you in a hotel room, they show up and they're like, all right,
24:06like let's flip your stuff.
24:07They go through all your stuff, they take your phone, they take your wallet.
24:11I couldn't do it.
24:12I couldn't take my phone.
24:13You signed like a 200 page contract.
24:14I couldn't go two days without my phone.
24:15You're a chef, so you don't fucking read at all.
24:16You don't read anything.
24:17You know.
24:18I'll take whatever you want.
24:19Yeah.
24:20So.
24:21Let me run it by legal first.
24:23Right.
24:24I'm not allowed to tell I'm going.
24:25And like, you know, I remember one of the other chefs, I was like, well, do you have
24:29your lawyer look at it and strike stuff?
24:30I was like, no, I just signed it and set it back like an idiot, like an idiot.
24:34So I was like wildly unprepared.
24:37So take all your stuff.
24:38And then you're like, now I'm in Colorado, locked in a hotel room, cut off from the world.
24:43Yeah.
24:44And I, you know, and it's like, if you go out day one or if you win, you get your phone
24:48back the same day.
24:51So it's just like, you're off the grid.
24:53Yeah.
24:54So I'm like five days in and I'm like, are we going to make a phone call?
24:58And they're like, yeah, we just don't like to do the phone calls right away because it
25:00like screws you guys up in the head talking at home.
25:03And I'm like, well, that's kind of fucked up, you know, I'm like, let me just like text
25:06my wife.
25:07We have Eastern European wives.
25:08Somebody needs to text her and tell her I'm not dead because I have like a track record
25:12here of like where I could be dead.
25:15So it's not the bottom of the Black Sea.
25:18Right.
25:19So finally, you know, they let you make a phone call.
25:22It's 10 minutes.
25:23It's on camera.
25:24You can't make a phone out of producer's phone and you can't say anything.
25:27You know what I mean?
25:28So you're like, and it's not like you'd have a real conversation because it's on camera.
25:31So I can't be like, oh, like, is my mom still being fucking crazy?
25:35Like, are you and your mom fighting?
25:38Like, you know, how's my sister?
25:39Yeah.
25:40It's like, hey, hey, are you having good weather?
25:43That's good because I'm having good weather.
25:45That's crazy.
25:46It's nice to talk to you.
25:48You're like, this is horrible.
25:49So was it worth it?
25:50Yeah.
25:51I mean, it was worth it.
25:52It's easy for me to say it's worth it, you know.
25:55But it was the whole experience, you know, people are always like, was it fun?
25:58It's like, no, really, while it's happening, like the relationships you form are super
26:03fun.
26:04You know, the places I got to see in Colorado were incredible.
26:07Working that production team's awesome.
26:09Like seeing what that takes, what a heavy lift it is to make that show happen is nuts.
26:15Those are some of like, you know, the chefs and like the production people, the camera
26:19people, like we were so like kindred right away because you saw how hard they work.
26:23They're pulling 18, 19, 20 hour days, lugging around, you know, 100 pound cameras.
26:26And you're like, oh, you're like our people.
26:29Yeah.
26:30You're like a bunch of crazy sons of bitches who like can't get enough of this.
26:33They were like, oh, we get you.
26:35Yeah.
26:36And so like, that was cool.
26:39And then when it comes out, you know, and then you got to come back like nothing happened.
26:42Yeah.
26:43So it's like I go for two months, I went Top Chef and then I come back.
26:46It's like I got back on Wednesday.
26:47I went back to work on Thursday.
26:48And when, how long did it take for it to air?
26:50So I got back probably end of June and like the finale aired March 10th.
27:00Come on.
27:01So it's like you're all tied up in NDAs and all these things.
27:04So you just have to be like.
27:05So eventually I had to tell, you know, I got back and I told my cooks because they were
27:08all like, something's up.
27:09Yeah.
27:10You're gone for two months.
27:11Nobody's heard from you.
27:12They haven't posted anything on social media.
27:13You're dead.
27:14I go, guys, I think you all know where I was.
27:17I can't talk about it.
27:18If you have questions about it, you can ask me about it one-on-one.
27:20I don't want to talk about it on the line, but that's the deal.
27:23I'll tell you more when I can.
27:24And they were all cool about it.
27:27And then when we got furthered out, you know, they announced that I was on the show.
27:31Everybody was like, oh shit, you know, that's where you went, blah, blah, blah.
27:34But it was, you know, just an insane experience.
27:37That's incredible.
27:38Well, we thank you for your time.
27:40I know you're busy.
27:41You're going to be all over the show floor today.
27:43We really appreciate it.
27:44Where's the best place for people to connect with you?
27:47On Instagram.
27:48Probably at Instagram.
27:49You can get me out there.
27:50Stop by the restaurants.
27:51I'm always around.
27:52What are the restaurants again?
27:53Restaurants are Rosemary Chicago and Boulevard Steakhouse.
27:57Awesome.
27:58And we really appreciate it.
27:59I hope one day I get to do a family style.
28:00So Toast has a family style series.
28:02We didn't have time to coordinate, otherwise we would have definitely been there for this
28:06trip.
28:07But the next time we come, I hope we can, I won't, I won't make you keep it quiet for
28:10two years.
28:11Yeah.
28:12Or two months.
28:13I appreciate that.
28:14We'll share everything.
28:15But we appreciate you guys for listening.
28:16If you want to follow me, it's at Sean P. Wolcheff, S-H-A-W-N-P-W-A-L-C-H-E-F.
28:22As always, stay curious, get involved, and don't be afraid to ask for help.
28:26Catch you guys next week.
28:27Thank you for listening to Restaurant Influencers.
28:30If you want to get in touch with me, I am weirdly available at Sean P. Wolcheff, S-H-A-W-N-P-W-A-L-C-H-E-F.
28:39Cali Barbecue Media has other shows.
28:42You can check out Digital Hospitality.
28:44We've been doing that show since 2017.
28:46We also just launched a show, Season 2, Family Style, on YouTube with Toast.
28:52And if you are a restaurant brand or a hospitality brand and you're looking to launch your own
28:57show, Cali Barbecue Media can help you.
28:59Recently, we just launched Room for Seconds with Greg Majewski.
29:04It is an incredible insight into leadership, into hospitality, into enterprise restaurants
29:11and franchise, franchisee relationships.
29:14Take a look at Room for Seconds.
29:16And if you're ready to start a show, reach out to us.
29:19Be the show dot media.
29:21We can't wait to work with you.