#khabar #electricitybill #electricitypricehike #electricity #budget2024 #pakistaneconomycrisis #meherbukhari
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Meher Bokhari
Guest:
- Ali Pervaiz Malik PMLN
Ali Pervaiz Malik's Big Announcement Regarding Electricity Bill Relief
What did the IMF say about giving relief to electricity consumers? - Ali Pervaiz Malik's Reaction
"Mazi Mein Ju Hota Raha Mein Usko...", Ali Pervaiz Malik's analysis on Budget 2024-25
Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY
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ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Meher Bokhari
Guest:
- Ali Pervaiz Malik PMLN
Ali Pervaiz Malik's Big Announcement Regarding Electricity Bill Relief
What did the IMF say about giving relief to electricity consumers? - Ali Pervaiz Malik's Reaction
"Mazi Mein Ju Hota Raha Mein Usko...", Ali Pervaiz Malik's analysis on Budget 2024-25
Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY
Subscribe to our channel and press the bell icon for latest news updates: http://bit.ly/3e0SwKP
ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Assalam-o-Alaikum and Good Evening, I am Meher Bukhari.
00:11The Supreme Court's full court hearing on the decision of the special sessions is expected to take place tomorrow.
00:16But before this decision, Bani Tehreek-e-Insaf Imran Khan has once again expressed his distrust of the Chief Justice of Pakistan.
00:23And in the parliamentary hearing, on not allowing Tehreek-e-Insaf to speak,
00:26the proposal to bring Tehreek-e-Adham-e-Itemad against the Speaker has also come forward.
00:31In the £190 million case, despite the threat of the Minister Khaiber Pakhtunkhwa,
00:35Parvez Khattak has got his statement recorded.
00:38In the Iddat Nikah case also, today, Bhusra Bibi's lawyer Khatija Siddiqui's arguments have been completed.
00:42Khawar Manika, through the Medical Board, has made two requests to take medical advice
00:46and to take the advice of the Islamic Council, Federal Shariah Court and Islamic Scholars on the matter of Iddat.
00:54Whereas Salman Sabdar has raised the point of tampering on the divorce.
00:58On the court's order, the Session Court has to give a verdict on this case in two days.
01:03The legal matters related to Tehreek-e-Insaf are entering their last phase.
01:08The verdict is safe on the special sessions.
01:10What should be the verdict?
01:11The verdict of the Session Court has also been secured on this today.
01:14The means are showing that the Supreme Court will announce the verdict of the special sessions case tomorrow.
01:20But before this verdict, once again, on behalf of Imran Khan,
01:24Tehreek-e-Adham-e-Itemad has been declared on the Chief Justice of Pakistan.
01:27Imran Khan has submitted the written reply to the Supreme Court on the Intracourt Appeal against the termination of Naib Tarameem.
01:33In this reply, Imran Khan has written that keeping in mind the decisions of the past,
01:37and to fulfill the demands of justice, Chief Justice Qazi Faiz Isa should not terminate my case.
01:43Imran Khan has written in the reply that in order to save someone's corruption,
01:46Tarameem does not exist in any Banana Republic.
01:50During my time in the society, Justice Athar Minalla had said that you will also benefit from Tarameem.
01:55But my position is clear that this is not my personal matter, but the matter of the country.
01:59Imran Khan has written that the Parliament should follow the Constitution.
02:03If it misuses the Naib Act, Tarameem should be stopped to an extent.
02:08Those who have committed corruption in the past have made the laws and the Parliament their shield.
02:12And the purpose of these laws should not be for a single person, but for the people.
02:17The Supreme Court should not close its eyes in the face of the facts.
02:20In a press conference in Adiala Jail, Imran Khan said while criticizing the Chief Justice,
02:25Chief Justice Qazi Faiz Isa is sending us the Election Commission for justice,
02:29while everyone knows that the Election Commission has conducted a fraud election.
02:32Imran Khan raised the question that Chief Justice Qazi Faiz Isa is saying that
02:36why not conduct an intraparty election?
02:38Does the Chief Justice not know that our entire party was underground?
02:41Why are our human rights and 8 February requests not being heard in the Supreme Court?
02:47Imran Khan also said that the establishment has to save the country.
02:50So we will have to go towards a transparent election.
02:52There is no other way.
02:53And in which democracy do civilians get trialed in the military courts?
02:57Imran Khan once again said that he will definitely carry out a hunger strike.
03:02But now, some decisions are waiting to be taken.
03:04After Imran Khan, the translator of Tehreek-e-Insaf, Rauf Hassan,
03:06while confirming Imran Khan's statement,
03:09has imposed severe sanctions on Chief Justice Islamabad High Court and Chief Justice of Pakistan, Qazi Faiz Isa.
03:16Qazi Faiz Isa has a bias against PTI, against Imran Khan.
03:20That is why he should not be a part of any bench.
03:22Begum Issa had written a letter to Imran Khan,
03:24in which he had said that Imran Khan should stop capitalizing on Riyasat-e-Madina.
03:29So because of these reasons, Imran Khan was forced to address Qazi Faiz Isa in writing.
03:34Pakistan's courts are being used.
03:36Qazi Faiz Isa and Aamir Farooq are his two major instruments.
03:40Even before this, the translator of Tehreek-e-Insaf, Rauf Hassan,
03:42has been a target of criticism to the Chief Justice.
03:45On 3 July, in a press conference, Rauf Hassan said while severely criticizing the Chief Justice,
03:49that the Chief Justice wants the matter to remain suspended.
03:52Whenever the Election Commission is asked to stop, the Chief Justice stands up for it.
03:57And tries to reduce the pressure on the Election Commission by stopping the proceedings left, right or up and down.
04:04Rauf Hassan had also claimed that when the judge himself starts killing justice,
04:09then where will those who seek justice go?
04:11The judge himself is on the verge of being humiliated.
04:14Before this, Rauf Hassan had also said that in which law is it written that you should keep the petitions down?
04:20The continuation of hearing of unimportant petitions is going on.
04:23Rauf Hassan had also claimed that all these things are a part of the London Plan.
04:27And had raised the question that the Chief Justice and the Chief Election Commission are a part of this London Plan.
04:32Rauf Hassan's severe criticism against Senator Faisal Wada and Senator Mustafa Kamal.
04:36In the same court case, when the Attorney General asked the Chief Justice of Pakistan,
04:39the answer of the Chief Justice was shocking that we had given relief to Rauf Hassan's brother, Fawad Hassan Fawad.
05:09We had given a lot of relief to Fawad Hassan Fawad.
05:11Did he have a problem with the fact that his brother got relief?
05:13It is possible, sir.
05:15It is possible that now why are you giving relief to my brother?
05:17We were taught the same thing in our childhood.
05:19We used to complain.
05:21There was no shame of such abuse in this time.
05:23I used such bad words.
05:25I used to tell my mother that go and tell him what he says.
05:29In important cases, before the decisions,
05:31mistrust of the judges is a serious matter.
05:33It simply means that if these decisions come against justice,
05:37then it will be a shame that justice has already expressed mistrust on these judges.
05:43If we look at the past,
05:45such criticism and mistrust has increased the pressure on the judges.
05:49In the Panama decision,
05:51before the decision to remove Nawaz Sharif Quina Ahly and the party from the presidency,
05:55we saw severe criticism on the Chief Justice of that time, Saqib Nisar and Asif Syed Khosa on behalf of Muslim League Noon.
06:01And today, in the election tribunal of Justice Tariq Jahangiri,
06:03after listening to the case of the three rings of Islamabad,
06:05a formal campaign is being launched against them.
06:07In connection with the legal matters of Justice Tariq,
06:09in the £190 million reference,
06:11today, Parvez Khattak has also recorded his statement despite the threat of the Minister of KPK.
06:15Parvez Khattak has stated in his statement that this matter was not on the agenda of the cabinet.
06:19It was brought forward as an additional agenda in the meeting.
06:22Other cabinet members including me also objected.
06:25The documents related to the amount were presented in closed envelopes.
06:28And the investigative officer of the reference said that
06:31there was also a written statement with this statement of Parvez Khattak.
06:35The statement of a witness was written in pen,
06:37whereas the statement of a witness has been completed.
06:39On the other hand, Justice Tariq has not given a chance to speak on behalf of the Speaker in the National Assembly meeting.
06:44He has made severe protests and protests.
06:46Justice Tariq's chairman, Barrister Gauhar Khan,
06:48criticized the attitude of the Speaker in the media conversation.
06:52And the government is bulldozing the legislation.
06:55While making this claim, he stated that the laws are being passed in one go.
06:59And when the opposition brings a point of order, it is not allowed to speak.
07:29They will force us to take democratic and peaceful actions.
07:32But they will force us to take final and harsh actions if their attitude does not change.
07:37They will be forced to go to the limit against the Speaker.
07:40Mehmood Khan Achakzai has also suggested to bring a motion against Speaker Aas Sadiq.
07:45Mehmood Khan Achakzai has also claimed that
07:48Maulana Fazlur Rehman and the Islamic Jamaat are also supporting the amendment of the constitution.
07:56The constitution is the history of Pakistan.
07:58It is the history of all the parties in Pakistan.
08:00Maulana is supporting it.
08:02The Islamic Jamaat is supporting it.
08:04In the heart of heart, Mian Nawaz Sharif is supporting it.
08:06Mian Nawaz Sharif is supporting it.
08:08Imran Khan is supporting it.
08:10It is a shame that you do not support the constitution.
08:15If Mehmood Khan Achakzai's claim is true,
08:17then the question arises on the role of Mian Nawaz Sharif.
08:20Is Mian Nawaz Sharif accepting that his brother and daughter's government does not follow the constitution?
08:25Is Mian Nawaz Sharif supporting the opposition movement against the government?
08:30In the heart of hearts, we are going to be right back.
08:39After the acceptance of the IMF's budget,
08:42the first demand for the acceptance of the new bailout package from the IMF
08:47has been put in front of Pakistan with a deadline.
08:50According to the sources, the IMF has put a condition to terminate the Pakistan Sovereign Wealth Fund before the acceptance of the new program.
08:56In addition, the IMF has also emphasized the implementation of a system of transparency and accountability in state-owned institutions.
09:03According to the sources, if the dispute between Pakistan and the IMF does not end with the termination of the IMF,
09:09then it may delay the staff level agreement.
09:14Today, Prime Minister Shabaz Sharif has also decided to terminate five important markets and institutions.
09:19I will not allow my time to be wasted, and I am sure you will not allow your time to be wasted.
09:24Please bend your back.
09:27If any of the markets take advantage of the situation and adopt delaying tactics, I will not let that.
09:32These things cannot go on like this.
09:34We will have to bring deep-seated reforms.
09:36We will have to make bitter decisions.
09:37My personal focus is on downsizing and rightsizing.
09:41The Institutional Reform Cell, established by the Prime Minister,
09:45has asked for recommendations from the five ministries of Information Technology, Kashmir Affairs,
09:49the Ministry of Saffron, the Ministry of Industry and Manufacturing, and the Ministry of Health Services in a week.
09:55These announcements are being made by the Prime Minister at a time when the Cabinet has agreed to fill the vacancies between grades 1 and 16.
10:04Today, NEPRA has secured a decision on the government's request for an increase of Rs 7.12 per unit.
10:10During the hearing, the Power Division officials said that
10:13K-Electric is being given a subsidy of Rs 177 billion and Digard Disco is being given a subsidy of Rs 313 billion,
10:19while Wafaqi Hukumat will give a subsidy of Rs 490 billion to Bijli Sarifeen.
10:25During the hearing, NEPRA member Maqsood Anwar Khan said that
10:2965% of Sarifeen will not be subsidized for three months, according to my data.
10:35You are saying that 86% of Sarifeen will benefit.
10:38You may have old data. Please check it.
10:42After hearing the arguments, NEPRA has decided on the request for an increase in the basic tariff.
10:46We have with us the Prime Minister of the country, Ali Parvez Malik.
10:49Mr. Ali, thank you very much for your support.
10:51The Prime Minister has delayed the increase in electricity prices.
10:57The increase will start from October.
10:59For the consumers of 200 units, there is a three-month relief, not a full year.
11:04There is a delay and a temporary relief.
11:06There is a permanent solution. You do not have it even today.
11:09If this problem was not so big, why did the Prime Minister intervene yesterday and give a relief of Rs 50 billion?
11:16The logic behind this is that this time unprecedented heat
11:23was found in the month of May and June.
11:27Because of this, the customer categorization of people has changed.
11:31Because you know that people in the consumption of up to 200 units fall into two categories.
11:39First is the protected customers, whose consumption lasts for six months in 200 units.
11:46And then there are the normal 200-unit consumers,
11:49whose tariff is higher and they do not fall in the protected category.
11:54When it was so hot in May, about 700,000 people,
11:59I am talking about the customers of Lesco alone,
12:02they were transferred, they transitioned from protected to unprotected category.
12:10Because of which a substantial increase came into their budgets.
12:14So the Prime Minister has offloaded that burden on those customers
12:19and insulated the price revision 3 of the protected and unprotected customers of up to 200 units from them.
12:29And for this year, I think this will be a permanent measure.
12:33I will tell you how, although the relief has been budgeted for three years.
12:38No, three months.
13:09And your observation on this is also correct,
13:13that this is a temporary relief in the sense that you have shielded them for a year.
13:19For that, the second thing you will have to do, Meher,
13:23is that you need widespread surgery in your power sector.
13:28Because in this, different types of problems have slowly permeated.
13:33Your capacity payments, which are all plants, are skyrocketing.
13:38Your on-grid consumption, which is the denominator in all these calculations,
13:45is squeezing because of economic hardships and people migrating to off-grid solutions.
13:51So you will have to see that too.
13:53You will have to see your PPAs.
13:55You will have to sit again with the power plants and open these negotiations.
14:00Maybe you will have to re-profile them.
14:03Because all these new plants, their debt is front-loaded.
14:07And their useful life is more than 20 years.
14:10So if you spread it more evenly, that will also cushion you.
14:14Then the Prime Minister in JNCOs,
14:17and JNCOs are those thermal plants that are under the control of the government.
14:21And mostly they are inefficient plants that are either shut down or gas guzzlers or furnace oil guzzlers.
14:27So by shutting them down, they have also been told to be liquidated.
14:31And that those proceeds will be used to offset other liabilities in the power sector.
14:36Apart from this, the privatization of distribution companies is also being carried forward at full throttle.
14:41You know their boards.
14:43Today, the law has also been passed in the National Assembly.
14:46After which you will depoliticize their boards and populate them with professional people.
14:52And from there too, improvements in governance will begin to come.
14:55Likewise, you are also working on transmission.
14:58So your reform agenda in the medium term,
15:02apart from moving forward on that,
15:05there is no way to shield every customer category,
15:09which is now challenged by your increasing power prices.
15:12And mind you, despite increasing these prices,
15:16we are accumulating around 500 to 600 billion new circular debt every year.
15:23For this, we need to take a multidimensional reform-oriented approach.
15:27Inshallah, Prime Minister Shabaz Sharif and Awais Laghari Sahib,
15:31who is heading this department,
15:33are fully prepared to follow this path of reforms.
15:38The reform you are talking about, sir,
15:41your governments have also made mistakes in this.
15:44Was the decision to install imported coal plants in Noon League correct in your opinion?
15:49A lot of people criticized it at that time.
15:52Technically, we could have backed out, but we chose not to.
15:55Even today, more nuclear plants are being installed.
15:57Chashma-5.
15:58We don't have the money to make payments.
16:01Excess electricity is already there.
16:03More are being installed.
16:05Today, the financial expenses related to CPEC projects have become unsustainable for the Pakistani economy.
16:12There are the most expensive tariffs.
16:14The conditions of the markets are unbearable.
16:16There are unsustainable capacity payments.
16:19These are all things you need to revisit.
16:21To solve these issues, you need to review the CPEC projects from China.
16:25Once again, you need to review the Asr-e-Noon.
16:28There is no moving forward.
16:30Inshallah, we will do everything that it takes to address this matter.
16:35Whether it is the fixed-charge component or the fuel component,
16:40which you proposed to convert from imported coal to third-coal development and third-coal utilization.
16:48All these things are being considered in Jamshoro.
16:52The rest of the plants on Port Qasim are also being planned.
16:56But all these require substantial capital injection.
17:00You will take them with the agenda of reform.
17:04You are absolutely right.
17:05The finance minister and the power minister have been given the task to go with the Chinese leadership
17:11and explore the debt profiling of the CPEC projects.
17:16If they want to go for the re-profiling, then they should explore that as well.
17:20Because we need to now ensure that we work on a multidimensional level
17:26and control the inflation in the electricity price.
17:30Because now its fallout is directly affecting the economic landscape.
17:35Severely, businesses are challenged.
17:37Severely, your consumers are challenged.
17:39And the government does not have the resources to directly shield them.
17:43So, we have to get to the bottom of this problem.
17:45Where is this birth taking place?
17:47Where is this genesis taking place?
17:49Inshallah, we will try to attain it.
17:53You are talking about debt re-profiling.
17:57We have put these proposals in front of the Chinese government in the past as well.
18:01Now, you want to stretch the payments for the next 10 years to 15 years.
18:05What has been said about this?
18:07I understand that you are aiming for a fee of Rs 3 per unit of electricity.
18:12But we have already put these proposals in front of the Chinese government.
18:17The Chinese have fully rejected it.
18:19What is your expectation or guarantee for the future of China?
18:23Look, I don't think that this has ever been outrightly rejected.
18:29Because you have to see that the viability of the power sector is not jeopardised.
18:34Because at the end of the day, the viability and liquidity of those plants also emanates from the power sector.
18:44Apart from this, I also had a private conversation with Khalid Mansoor, who was a CPEC investor during Imran Khan's time.
18:52And even today, I met with the investors of the Port Kasim Authority.
19:06Inshallah, we will find a solution to this together.
19:09Because it is in the mutual benefit of both of them.
19:11That these investments are also viable, the plants are also operational.
19:16And according to this, there is economic growth and demand materialisation in Pakistan.
19:21Because at the end of the day, if we are not able to utilise the power that we can produce,
19:26then this problem will continue to compound.
19:28So we have to bring revisions in the price for demand materialisation.
19:32We have to dismantle the perverse incentives in the price regime.
19:38So Inshallah, I am very hopeful.
19:40With the Prime Minister's keen interest and focus,
19:42and the follow-up visit and the onboarding of different stakeholders in this exercise,
19:49we will see a decent headway shortly.
20:08Nigran Wazir Azam Anwar-ul-Haq Qaqar was also announcing relief,
20:11which IMF rejected.
20:13And he had to take his announced relief back.
20:39So you have the validation from IMF to shield the most vulnerable population,
20:44which is your segment of your population, via this measure.
20:47And they also realised that this is a temporary relief.
20:50And after that, you will have to move towards reforms to address this problem on a more permanent basis.
20:57Sir, Ali, tell us that the Punjab government has now announced a scheme
21:01to give solar panels to 200 to 500 households.
21:05What will be the impact on the rates of other people?
21:08If a house with a capacity of 500 units takes less electricity than the national grid,
21:12what will be the increase in idle capacity payments, according to your calculations?
21:17Look, Mehar, you also said the same thing that I told you about the denominator earlier in this segment.
21:23But the request is that your system to clear out requires an average price of around 35, 36, 40 rupees.
21:32So anything underneath that, even if you turn it off from the grid,
21:37then the net impact of your subsidy will be less.
21:40So keep this in mind too.
21:43Today, your problem is that due to this cross-subsidisation,
21:48for which the Prime Minister had made a very big effort,
21:51you remember that he ended the cross-subsidy in the industrial tariff.
21:55Today, the bigger problem is that your higher tariff,
21:59your higher tariff customer,
22:01you have loaded it so much that that customer is also going off-grid.
22:07And he is either going to the captive generation,
22:09or he is installing solar panels,
22:11or he is running furnace oil plants.
22:13And because of that, the liquidity of your power sector is being impaired.
22:19So as long as you are able to retain that customer,
22:22as long as you are able to attend to those perverse incentives
22:27that have come into your pricing regime,
22:29net-net, you should be better off.
22:31But the request is that how do you want to use subsidies
22:36for the social protection of our lower segment?
22:39It is the government's wish that you transfer cash directly to them,
22:43or give them solar panels.
22:44So it is only being used to that extent.
22:46So I am requesting this to you.
22:48But Ali, you still did not answer the question.
22:51That province, i.e. Punjab, which is paying the highest bill,
22:53if it gets off the national grid,
22:55then how much will the cost increase for others?
22:57Because according to my calculation,
22:59the cost of electricity for the rest of the citizens will increase by Rs. 3-4 per unit.
23:05Look, the request is that you look at their prices.
23:09I am talking to you.
23:10The customer whose price is below Rs. 40 or Rs. 35,
23:15so net-net, the government is giving him a subsidy from its pocket.
23:20So if a customer, which is more than the average clothing-out price,
23:24is going off-grid more than that,
23:27then only it is an increasing financial burden for you.
23:31If your subsidized customer is getting off,
23:33then your fiscal space is not getting impaired that much,
23:37but obviously your denominator will reduce,
23:40but your less-paying customer is getting offloaded.
23:43So net-net, you will not be worse off.
23:45That is the only point that I make.
23:47What do you believe?
23:48There will be a difference of Rs. 3-4, Ali.
23:50And there is a contradiction between Punjab's policy and Wafaaq's policy.
23:54You are thinking of reversing the net-metering policy.
23:56You are also holding meetings because you are wary that people are getting off-grid.
23:59According to all of you, there is an additional burden of Rs. 2 per unit on the national consumer.
24:04You are talking about this internally.
24:06So tell me, will the Punjab government get off the national grid with this initiative?
24:10Is this a contradiction regarding the reduction of idle capacity payments?
24:15Look, the request is that the solar proliferation that you see here,
24:21whether it is Punjab or the federal government,
24:24this is a cause that Pakistan must espouse
24:28because this will benefit your Green Energy Initiative
24:32and you are ahead of many industries
24:35who will see this induction for their sustainability requirements
24:38and for their carbon footprint mapping.
24:42So that point is in its place.
24:44But how do you moderate and regulate the net-metering?
24:49This proliferation, this growth in renewable square,
24:52that is still being discussed and there are different measures in it.
24:56Finishing the net-metering is not the only solution.
24:59In that, you have carry-forward of units that you allow between months.
25:03That is another instrument that is available.
25:06Today, there are hardly any import levies on your solar panels
25:10and the price that was in their international market has been substantially reduced.
25:14So there are various things, various interventions that are being discussed.
25:19But on behalf of the government, I can assure you,
25:21nothing will be changed retrospectively.
25:23How do you attend this matter in the future?
25:26That is still being discussed.
25:27But the growth of renewables and the initiative towards it,
25:31especially to encourage the conversion of the diesel-operated
25:37and petro-engine-fired fuels and other things,
25:40will be focused on them.
25:42And this matter will be taken forward in a systematic and regulatory environment.
25:46This work could have been thought of earlier.
25:48When I say poor budgeting, none of these things are new,
25:51which you are talking about.
25:53All of this could have been thought of earlier.
25:55After bringing the budget, within a month,
25:57such revisions have been brought that the mini-budget is right, sir.
26:00Was there really a need to increase PSDP like this?
26:02You could have very well frozen it, sir.
26:04You could have frozen it on last year's PSDP.
26:06The poor people of the entire country would have benefited.
26:08Last year, the PSDP was of Rs 705 billion.
26:10But no.
26:11First, you did Rs 1,400 billion, then Rs 1,150 billion,
26:14then Rs 50 billion more.
26:15Sir, if you cut another Rs 50 billion,
26:17it means that people's tariffs should not be increased.
26:19Please forgive the public on all sides.
26:22Look, the request is that the mini-budget,
26:26you call that intervention,
26:28when the government has brought your new revenue measures mid-year.
26:33We have not brought any new revenue measures.
26:35If we are re-appropriating our expenditures,
26:40if we are re-prioritizing them,
26:41then tell me, doesn't this exercise go on for a whole year?
26:44Do you see the technical supplementary grants
26:47and supplementary grants that are passed after a year,
26:49isn't this the same exercise?
26:51So today, before the conclusion of this budget exercise,
26:54if we have re-prioritized,
26:56then there is nothing to worry about.
26:58And as far as re-basing of the tariff is concerned,
27:01electricity, you are talking about re-basing.
27:03Look, the request is that the power sector,
27:06its own contract obligations,
27:09its own fuel obligations,
27:11do you want your price regime to be such
27:14that it cannot bear all that burden
27:16and we cross-subsidize it by taxing the price of milk and other things?
27:20So I don't think that is the right way to take this forward.
27:23The power sector should be self-sufficient.
27:26Through governance, you have to reduce leakages, theft, non-payment.
27:35Your revenue measures,
27:37the taxation measures in it,
27:39whether they are direct interventions, indirect interventions,
27:42running your government with it,
27:44running your development portfolio,
27:46meeting your defense needs,
27:48this re-prioritization has to be focused on.
27:52So both these activities happen in parallel.
27:55Temporarily, you can insulate each other's pain with re-appropriation.
27:59But otherwise, as a more permanent measure,
28:01if you take this forward,
28:03I don't think that would be appropriate
28:05because you have to meet your development needs
28:07and your growth requirements.
28:09Sir, you are saying the same thing.
28:11Those who work are not happening.
28:13And what you are saying about supplementary grants,
28:15they keep happening.
28:17That is wrong, isn't it, sir?
28:19You misuse it.
28:21Between May 2023 and May 2024,
28:23you justified it.
28:25Two out of the three governments were yours, sir.
28:27Not only did you misuse the supplementary grants,
28:29the parliament, the public opinion,
28:31not everyone was brought into the picture.
28:33There is the power sector, the water division,
28:35defense, civil arm services,
28:37agencies, budget,
28:39all of these were more than what was allocated.
28:41Or for non-budget expenses and measures,
28:43which we saw a significant difference
28:45in obtaining all the resources.
28:47There are many of these expenditures, Mr. Ali Parvez,
28:49for which the government had sought
28:51and there was no status of emergency.
28:53Or it had nothing to do with the chaos.
28:55If you do allow me,
28:57when the actual budget was approved,
28:59there was the security of CPEC,
29:01military pensions and other benefits of retirement,
29:03additional funds,
29:05the Green Corporate Initiative of Musalla Paj,
29:07the flood of Pak-Iran border,
29:09K-Electric
29:11and public power generation plants.
29:13All of these were not emergency needs at that time.
29:15A lot of these expenditures, sir,
29:17you could have foreseen
29:19and you should have, in fact.
29:49Sir, that is very much the need of the hour,
29:51because the parliament has approved
29:534 trillion in supplementary grants,
29:55which is approximately 400% more
29:57than the previous summit.
29:59So, we will try to bring in
30:01better financial management
30:03and better governance
30:05so that we can avoid
30:07such embarrassments,
30:09such supplementary grants
30:11and reallocations.
30:13And going forward,
30:15that will be a priority area for the government.
30:17Sir,
30:1986% of these expenditures
30:21were utilised in the last 45 days
30:23in your PDM government.
30:25You started using them in 45 days.
30:27And your slogan was
30:29that we have come to save the state, not politics.
30:31Very much politics was being saved, sir.
30:33The state was not being saved.
30:35Look,
30:37in that, Meher,
30:39the reallocations that have happened,
30:41each reallocation needs to be assessed
30:43and after that,
30:45I can answer your sarcastic
30:47observation.
30:49But the fact of the matter is,
30:51before the vote of no confidence,
30:53Imran Khan had adopted
30:55that you were selling petrol
30:57at a price which was
30:59less than the price at which
31:01Saudi Arabia was selling diesel.
31:03If you had followed that path,
31:05considering the fact that
31:07you have a requirement of
31:09$100 billion in financing and refinancing
31:11over the next couple of years,
31:13then believe me,
31:15if you ask a student of any industry,
31:17he will tell you that
31:19default was written on the wall.
31:21So, you averted that.
31:23After that, the most difficult decisions,
31:25whether they are in the petrol price revision,
31:27or the reforms that you took
31:29in different departments,
31:31were taken by the PDM government.
31:33And even today,
31:35the stability that you see,
31:37in which inflation has fallen from 40%
31:39to 12%, currency is stable,
31:41stock market record is stable,
31:43foreign investors are coming to you.
31:45This is only a reflection.
31:47Excuse me.
31:49Mr. Ali, last year,
31:51despite the existence of
31:53the privatisation ordinance,
31:55in which transparency was being ensured,
31:57$1.7 billion was raised.
31:59Still, you made a sovereign fund.
32:01Now, IMF is demanding
32:03that this fund be abolished.
32:05Now, your government is
32:07banking on this.
32:09What is your strategy now?
32:39DCL was also ready for privatisation in 2014.
33:09The partnership with IMF
33:11is on track.
33:13And soon you will hear good news,
33:15which is extremely essential
33:17to anchor the stability
33:19that you see right now.
33:21And when we anchor this,
33:23you will see the government
33:25changing its gear.
33:27And you will see widespread reforms
33:29in all economic ministries,
33:31in all economic divisions,
33:33which will put Pakistan on a path
33:35of more inclusive and sustainable growth.
33:37I assure you that this will happen
33:39in a full-scale manner.
33:41Ali, I really do hope so.
33:43But despite the existence of
33:45the privatisation ordinance,
33:47you remained adamant and made
33:49a sovereign fund.
33:51Similarly, despite the existence
33:53of the Board of Investment,
33:55there was no need for another
33:57division, SIFC.
33:59That could have been incorporated
34:01within it.
34:03Now, the problem is that
34:05the government is trying to
34:07downsize and right-size the process.
34:09But if I remember correctly,
34:11you had received a recommendation
34:13from the Austerity Committee
34:15to abolish 70,000 Assamis.
34:17But you have decided
34:19to fill up the vacant posts
34:21from Grade 1 to Grade 16.
34:23Is this austerity?
34:25Look, austerity
34:27and right-sizing exercise
34:29are two parallel activities
34:31that are happening.
34:33Let me first explain
34:35the five ministries
34:37that have been
34:39spotlighted.
34:41Look, in all these divisions,
34:43there is a lot of overlap.
34:45If you look at your federal
34:47legislative list,
34:49and if you look at the responsibilities
34:51of the provinces,
34:53there is a lot of overlap
34:55after the 18th amendment.
34:57So, this exercise will be
34:59carried out through a
35:01set of five ministries.
35:03All the extra layers of fat
35:05that are in your governance
35:07will either be proposed
35:09to be shut down
35:11or devolved to the provinces.
35:13Or if they have to be retained,
35:15they will have to be defended.
35:17So, all these things
35:19that you have to run
35:21over all the divisions
35:23in the first tranche
35:25to keep it right-size,
35:27you have started it
35:29under all the companies
35:31that report these divisions.
35:33You know, if you talk about
35:35the Ministry of Industries,
35:37it has a Fertilizer Corporation,
35:39a Furniture Company,
35:41a lot of things.
35:43So, all these things
35:45will be reviewed
35:47and the unnecessary
35:49things that you see
35:51in modern-day management
35:53and modern-day corporate
35:55governance structures
35:57and how you have to manage
35:59them, that is another exercise.
36:01That is another exercise
36:03that you will see happening.
36:05Austerity is something else.
36:07In austerity,
36:09the fresh capital purchases
36:11that you have to make
36:13through a filtration process
36:15have to be discussed
36:17and then allowed.
36:19So, it is established in its place
36:21and where you have to
36:23populate the jobs,
36:25the posts,
36:27I will request you
36:29to hire people on them.
36:31I don't think there is
36:33any final decision on this.
36:35I have also seen this report
36:37of Shabaz Rana,
36:39but one thing
36:41I will request you
36:43is that perhaps
36:45the clerical positions
36:47can be populated
36:49by closing
36:51these surplus divisions
36:53where you need linemen
36:55and SDOs
36:57who are technical positions.
36:59You cannot meet them
37:01through your pool.
37:03So, if a critical requirement
37:05like a pilot is required
37:07in PIA, you cannot
37:09reallocate him
37:11there.
37:13He will be tested
37:15and the crucial positions
37:17will be populated
37:19because when the right-sizing
37:21lower-grade staff
37:23are redundant
37:25and surplus,
37:27they will be absorbed by these companies.
37:29So, don't worry,
37:31no extra fat will be added
37:33and all these
37:35hirings will be done purely
37:37on merit and on a need basis.
37:39Sir, there are a lot of low-hanging
37:41fruits here. You have 18 regulatory
37:43bodies on which your
37:45Federal Secretaries and Babu
37:47are drawing double salaries.
37:49I mean, it's amazing. They don't have the capacity
37:51or the knowledge or the know-how, but they are sitting there
37:53and drawing these salaries and
37:55no one is doing anything. There are a lot of low-hanging fruits
37:57on which you don't need
37:59long meetings.
38:01You can take those actions.
38:03But the urban middle-class
38:05has been thrown out.
38:07Purchasing power was not there due to inflation.
38:09On top of that, you have imposed such taxes
38:11that for God's sake,
38:13in this condition of emergency,
38:15you are giving 25% increase
38:17and agriculture
38:19is not being taxed. The President
38:21is saying that it should be.
38:23What does it mean, sir? Punjab, Sindh,
38:25Balochistan are all your governments.
38:27All your parties are sitting there.
38:29At one place, your nephew is sitting there.
38:31At another place, your ally is sitting there.
38:33So, I don't understand that no explanation
38:35is being given as to why
38:37you are not imposing taxes on real estate,
38:39agriculture. I understand they are provincial subjects,
38:41but if Punjab, Sindh, Balochistan, if they are not
38:43doing it, they don't want to do it.
38:45So, either you are not having this conversation, Alisa.
38:47So, the problem is either they surrender to the
38:49federal government. Otherwise, it only means
38:51that you are not having this conversation.
38:53There is no agricultural tax or real estate
38:55levied by the provinces. The problem is that
38:57we are not seeing any incentive.
38:59We are not seeing any conversation.
39:01The President is saying that it should be.
39:03You are saying that we have come here to save the state,
39:05but you are not taxing any rich agriculturist.
39:07You are not taxing the real estate magnate.
39:09We are not understanding what you are doing,
39:11even the retailers.
39:13We are not understanding what you are doing,
39:15even the retailers.
39:43We are cognizant
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