Ice Age Civilizations_3of3_Recovery of Lost Human History
Transcript
00:00:00What does this all mean, even if you are correct in your projected timeline?
00:00:14Yes, well it does lend great credence, if my timeline is correct, to the Genesis account.
00:00:21That's one thing.
00:00:24Archaeologists have always acknowledged that the Genesis account is the most accurate road
00:00:28map, or the most trustworthy road map for archaeological endeavors in the Middle East
00:00:34since the earliest days of modern archaeology.
00:00:36So we know that the earliest histories leading back to Noah are extremely accurate.
00:00:41It's been the road map for archaeological endeavors.
00:00:44But the conventional scientists do not want Noah's Flood to be true.
00:00:47They do not want the Genesis timeline to be true.
00:00:51Therefore, they will resort to, say in human development, through, I'm not thinking, I
00:00:57forgot even what the question was.
00:00:59What is the significance of all this?
00:01:01If your theory is true, what does it mean to me today, Joe Trump driver, flipping through,
00:01:07what's stuck on my mind?
00:01:09Yes.
00:01:10Yeah, if the model that we're presenting here is true, if the model that we've been describing
00:01:18here is more accurate, which we think the evidence does show, it will show that the
00:01:23conventional Darwinian timeline is full of holes and that what we've been taught all
00:01:28through our lives in public school and private school has been treated as writ.
00:01:34The fact of Darwinian development is not so.
00:01:37And many of us have suspected this.
00:01:38And many biologists admit that Darwinian timeline and Darwinian change is very suspect.
00:01:44So all that we've been taught should be called into question with this new information.
00:01:49It raises much doubt on the Darwinian timeline and lends great credence to the Genesis account,
00:01:55an account which has never showed any flaw.
00:01:58It has never shown any inaccuracy.
00:02:00We need to keep that in mind.
00:02:01And in reality, the global flood, the global flood model without causing these vast sedimentary
00:02:07layers on the continents does jibe with the global flood model and not with uniformitarianism.
00:02:14So we need to look long and hard at these two schemes, these two models, and you be
00:02:18the judge about which one fits the evidence better.
00:02:22You know, there's 500 legends from around the globe from ancient tribes that speak of
00:02:27a global flood.
00:02:28It wasn't just the Hebrews.
00:02:31All the ancient civilizations had legends of a global flood, including Egypt.
00:02:35A lot of people say Egypt didn't.
00:02:37They did.
00:02:38The tomb of Set, the building text of the Setes Temple, who lived about 1800 BC, and
00:02:43the Edfu text, also at the building text of the Edfu complex, global flood.
00:02:50All Hittites had one even.
00:02:52The Hittites were thought to be mythological, a biblical figment of a Hebrew's imagination.
00:02:59No Hittite nation up until about 1940, and the Hittites were discovered.
00:03:04More verification of the Genesis is accurate.
00:03:07What caused the Ice Age to begin?
00:03:09That's the big question.
00:03:12Natural scientists say that it was because of cooling of the atmosphere.
00:03:17We've shown that no, it couldn't have been colder winters because you have less snowfall
00:03:21with colder winters.
00:03:22So that was not the reason.
00:03:24We have shown that it had to have been geothermal heating to warm the ocean water.
00:03:32We have shown that it could not be global warming to cause the warmer ocean water to
00:03:36cause an Ice Age.
00:03:37Oxymoronic global warming of the Ice Age doesn't make sense.
00:03:41Therefore, it had to be heating from below.
00:03:42Now what caused this heating from below?
00:03:45We have a few indications from ancient legends.
00:03:48The ancient Teutonic tribes and some of the ancient Chinese tribes spoke of the earth
00:03:54hissing and steam and water venting forth through the earth as a global flood covered
00:04:01the earth.
00:04:02The Hebrew Bible speaks of the fountains of the deep, which would have hissed steam and
00:04:06water and magma from the bowels of the earth.
00:04:09Now something like this had to have been the cause for the warmer waters for the Ice
00:04:14Age.
00:04:15Now we'll look into that in our next program and you all can look into it yourself and
00:04:19see what theories you've got.
00:04:20The Bible says fountains of the deep.
00:04:22We'll look long and hard at that.
00:04:23Does conventional science have an explanation for the onset of the Ice Age?
00:04:29Yeah, the Milankovitch, the conventionals once again say that the Ice Age was caused
00:04:34by cooler temperatures because during the Milankovitch cycle, which is where the ellipse
00:04:40of the orbit of the earth changes over time, every 100,000 years, once in 100,000, or through
00:04:46a period during 100,000 years, the earth is farther away from the sun.
00:04:51Therefore the atmosphere is a bit cooler.
00:04:52Therefore you have the Ice Age.
00:04:54That's the big explanation in conventional circles for the cause of the Ice Age.
00:04:59But we've shown it could not be colder temperatures.
00:05:02What mainstream scientists say is the cause is hydrologically impossible.
00:05:07Therefore we have to look at another mechanism for warmer ocean waters.
00:05:13Warmer ocean waters.
00:05:14And conventional scientists don't say it was warmer ocean waters, but we've shown, once
00:05:18again according to Hydrology 101, it had to have been warmer ocean waters.
00:05:23Therefore we need to look at what caused the warmer ocean waters.
00:05:26And that's where we need to look into some ancient legends.
00:05:29The Hebrew legend, the fountains of the deep, dirt to cause much of the water for the deluge.
00:05:34Ancient Teutonic legends of water and steam hissing through cracks in the earth as a global
00:05:40deluge enveloped the earth.
00:05:42We need to look at these ancient legends and ancient literatures and see if there's any
00:05:47merit in them.
00:05:49Because we have shown scientifically that it was geothermal heat from below.
00:05:54So conventional science is looking forward to another Ice Age.
00:05:58Yeah.
00:05:59In the Milankovitch Cycle, when we cool down a little bit again, we're supposed to get
00:06:03another Ice Age.
00:06:04Okay.
00:06:05Tell me just a bit with the timeline then.
00:06:11The geothermal activity caused, according to PT, the Ice Age.
00:06:21Where's the flood come in?
00:06:22Or is that the flood that we're...
00:06:24Well, at the close of the flood years, the continents thickened, the ocean basins sank,
00:06:29and the deluge water slid off the thickening continents of the deepening ocean basins for
00:06:34the reason I discussed previously.
00:06:36And that post-deluge water that had slid off the continents of the deepening ocean basins
00:06:41was warmer.
00:06:42Creation scientists estimated it would have been, on average, about 80 degrees Fahrenheit.
00:06:46Currently, the average temperature of the ocean is about 50 degrees Fahrenheit.
00:06:50But creation scientists, hydrologists, anybody who runs the numbers will say that for that
00:06:55type of a dense cloud cover for an Ice Age, that would have come from temperatures about
00:07:0080 degrees Fahrenheit for the post-deluge ocean, or whatever that geothermal influx
00:07:06was that caused those warmer ocean water to be about 80 degrees Fahrenheit.
00:07:11Then according to common diffusion calculations, it would have taken about 800 years for that
00:07:16to cool down to about 50 degrees Fahrenheit on average, which it is today, which was at
00:07:21about 1500 BC.
00:07:23So you count those 800 years back, that puts this geothermal influx event from below at
00:07:28right around 2400 BC, which is right in the Genesis timeframe.
00:07:32In India, to make the point that the end of the Ice Age sea level rise is not the same
00:07:41legends, are not the same legends about the global deluge, this is the point in fact that
00:07:45in India, they have a legend about Manu and the seven Rishis, eight people, just like
00:07:51Genesis, writing out a clearly global catastrophe.
00:07:55But then they have other legends of, for instance, the kingdom of Kumari Kandam, off the tip
00:08:01of India being submerged when the Ice Age ended.
00:08:04It rose a little bit, the Pandian king, Netiyan, was able to retreat a bit inland and defeat
00:08:10some people and set up a new kingdom.
00:08:13Now that's clearly different from a global deluge of Manu and the seven Rishis, with
00:08:17eight people and the seed of all the created things surviving, versus from the same country,
00:08:22the same India people, speaking about a different deluge, merely the sea level rise at the end
00:08:28of the Ice Age.
00:08:29They're two different things, but some of the New Age types say that the legends about
00:08:34Noah's flood and all that is regarding the sea level rise at the end of the Ice Age,
00:08:39but clearly there are two different events.
00:08:41It is my beginning into the second show, but outside of legends, is there geologic evidence
00:08:51of a global...
00:08:52No, the whole geologic column is evidence of it.
00:08:55Vast, flat-lined sedimentary layers, often stacked like pancakes with billions of creatures
00:09:02entombed therein, 99% of which are water, marine creatures.
00:09:08According to today's processes, supposedly those rocks that I just described will eventually
00:09:13result from sedimentation at deltas, at river mouths today.
00:09:17Now how are sedimentary deltas going to become lithified and become limestone in the middle
00:09:22of the continent?
00:09:25Outside of the legends, the 500 people group legends of the global encompassing flood,
00:09:31outside of those hearsay legends from ancestors, generation to generation, is there any geological
00:09:36evidence for this global deluge?
00:09:38Well, yes, obviously, I can say obviously, I've studied it, because we have vast-lined
00:09:43sedimentary layers that are stacked like pancakes on the continents with billions of creatures
00:09:48entombed therein, 99% of which are marine creatures, creatures from the ocean, simple
00:09:54snails, clams, fish, animals that you'd expect to be entombed first during the progression
00:10:00of sedimentary deposition up on the continents.
00:10:03Now how do you need water up on the continents to explain vast sedimentary layers up on the
00:10:08continents?
00:10:09So water was up on the continents and covering the continents to create vast sedimentary
00:10:14layers that cover the continents.
00:10:16That bespeaks water up on the continents in one watery cataclysm, not a uniformitarian
00:10:23geology which, according to the conventional scientists, proposes that the deltas of today
00:10:28where sediments are building up at river deltas, at the mouths of rivers, according
00:10:33to the conventional scheme, those eventually will become shales and sandstones in Nebraska.
00:10:39Now that doesn't cut it, you know, sediment is building up there, but how do you get vast
00:10:43sedimentary layers covering Kansas, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Illinois in one vast sheet with
00:10:49billions of creatures entombed therein?
00:10:51That's not uniformitarianism, that is a global cataclysm with the water up on the continents
00:10:57and incidentally, the flood of this deluge did not cover the current high mountains because
00:11:01the mountains rose at the close of the flood year, as evidenced by the lack of radial tension
00:11:06cracks in the now folded sedimentary layers of the mountains, which proves that those
00:11:11layers were still wet and soft when the uplift and folding of the mountains occurred, which
00:11:15proves that it was at the close or after the flood year.
00:11:18And also, three quarters of the basalt rocks, the lava rocks on the continents, are pillow
00:11:24basalts, and pillow basalts look like a stack of pillows, they're kind of rounded, and they
00:11:29are that way because they were extruded into water.
00:11:32They were extruded from the bowels of the earth into water on the continents.
00:11:37So once again, extrusion into water that was up on the continents.
00:11:41Now that's a deluge, that is not uniformitarian geology.
00:11:44You know, the people who have discovered and photographed these megaliths are small time
00:11:49operators.
00:11:50There are people like Graham Hancock, who had a hunch and read these rumors and these
00:11:55legends about submerged kingdoms like Mu, Rama, which is Kumari Kandam, and he acted
00:12:01upon them.
00:12:02He said, well there must be city-states down there, megaliths.
00:12:04He acted on it and searched and found and photographed, a small time operator.
00:12:09He broke the ice on this.
00:12:12He has shown megalithic sites in three or four parts of the world, and no major universities
00:12:17or research organizations with the big bucks have followed up to document this stuff in
00:12:22greater detail.
00:12:23Now why this is, you may ask, you may have your opinion.
00:12:28My opinion is that they are of 2000 BC vintage on the sea floor, therefore the ice age ended
00:12:36after that, and the conventional do not want to deal with that implication.
00:12:41And because they don't want to deal with that implication, they say, well block faulting.
00:12:47Did the coastline drop 200 feet to cause these to become submerged megaliths?
00:12:52Well as I've said previously, and I say in my book, Ice Age Civilizations, there is no
00:12:56evidence of horse or grobbins, which are block faulting features.
00:13:01That should be evident in the hillsides, in the coastline, none.
00:13:04No evidence of 200 feet of block faulting, and on top of that you think that might have
00:13:09been a legendary occurrence?
00:13:12Block faulting was not a legendary occurrence, but a slow rise in sea level to engulf city
00:13:17states was a legendary occurrence.
00:13:23And therefore, we need to ask the status quo in the scientific community, why aren't you
00:13:29investigating these things?
00:13:31Is it because they do look like they're from 2000 BC, or is it for another reason?
00:13:35Let's find out.
00:13:37Yes, you know, conventional scientists date some of the megalithic structures, like at
00:13:42Catalhoyuk in southern Turkey, the ancient Hittite, they would say the precursor to the
00:13:48Hittite nation.
00:13:49There's megalithic cities there, old relic cities, that some remnants of it were carbon
00:13:55dated to be 8000 BC, or 9000 BC, and therefore they will say, well Jim, megalithic building
00:14:02really began at 8000 BC in its rudimentary form, leading up to the 3000 BC, according
00:14:08to these carbon 14 dates.
00:14:10Well, during the ice age, volcanoes were going off, belching carbon 12 into the atmosphere,
00:14:18within carbon dioxide, effuse from volcanoes.
00:14:22Thousands of them during the ice age.
00:14:23Conventionals agree with this.
00:14:25So that carbon 12 that was being vented into the atmosphere, diluted the amount of carbon
00:14:2914 in the atmosphere.
00:14:31Poor creatures that died, and samples came from that time, show greatly exaggerated ages
00:14:37because the carbon 14 was diluted by the carbon 12 from the volcanoes.
00:14:43Additionally, the mainstreamers will say, well, this carbon 14 date does not agree with
00:14:50our preconceived notion as to how old the sample should be, so they'll throw it out,
00:14:55and they'll make up a reason why it's really a bad sample.
00:14:59But you see, going in, they thought it was a good sample, not a flawed sample.
00:15:03But when the result comes in, oh, it must be a flawed sample, and we'll find out a
00:15:08reason why.
00:15:09But it wasn't before they got the result.
00:15:11So it's kind of a rigged game.
00:15:13That warmer water came from somewhere that wasn't atmospheric, so you figure it out.
00:15:17And I bet I will whisper onto the camera, fountains of the deep.
00:15:22Genesis fountains of the deep, through the mid-oceanic ridges, that's where all that
00:15:25hot water met.
00:15:2770% of magma, by weight, is water.
00:15:32So when that, you know, you've seen lava flows, all that steam, shh, 70% by weight is water.
00:15:37So when the water and magma vented forth through the mid-oceanic ridges that look like the
00:15:43seam on a baseball in the oceanic floor, they rapidly separated those places during the
00:15:49Noah's Flood.
00:15:50North and South America moved rapidly away from Europe and Asia, you know, they fit together
00:15:54nicely like a jigsaw puzzle, but during the flood year they moved away rapidly.
00:15:59Water and steam and basalt through the mid-oceanic ridges.
00:16:04New ocean bottom as the continents spread, 70% of that was water.
00:16:08So that is the main source of the water for Noah's Flood.
00:16:12And the pre-flood continents were, say, only a mile high, and the pre-Noahic flood oceans
00:16:17were, say, only a mile deep, and during the, so, you know, the sea level only had to double
00:16:21to cover the continents.
00:16:22So they covered it, laid down all that sediments, mountain rose to close the flood year.
00:16:26As the continents thickened at the close of the flood year, ocean basin sank because the
00:16:30new ocean bottom was that lava that had replaced the spreading oceanic crust, and when that
00:16:35lava cooled and got denser, it sank into the vacated voids beneath it where the water and
00:16:42magma had come from.
00:16:44So the ocean bottom sank, the continents thickened, water slid right off into our current ocean
00:16:49basins.
00:16:52My name is John Major Jenkins, and I am an independent Mayan scholar, author of Maya
00:17:07Cosmogenesis 2012.
00:17:11My speciality is the study of Mayan cosmology and calendar science, and this would incorporate
00:17:20studies of Mayan science and religion.
00:17:24And I've been doing this research for some 20 years, and more particularly, I've been
00:17:33very interested in the 2012 end date of the Mayan calendar.
00:17:38Okay.
00:17:39Now, tell us how, then, the Olmecs fit into this study of yours.
00:17:48In Mesoamerica, the Olmec people were the people that preceded the Maya, and the Olmec
00:17:56people were the culture that started to really be interested in the stars.
00:18:03And some 4,000 years ago, there are Olmec cities that are being built, and they're aligned
00:18:11in specific ways to, say, the Big Dipper.
00:18:15So we know that the Olmec were very, very interested in the stars.
00:18:20Okay.
00:18:21So, now, what we talked about before is, where did these civilizations, like, get their knowledge
00:18:30from?
00:18:31Was it something shared with the ancient Egyptians or Babylonian Phoenicians?
00:18:41The ancient people of Mesoamerica, they share certain common traditions that we see around
00:18:49the globe, like, for example, temple building.
00:18:52My interpretation of this is that, certainly, there may have been trans-Atlantic and trans-Pacific
00:18:59voyages going on.
00:19:00In fact, the entire globe might have been connected by these ancient mariners.
00:19:05What I like to point out is sort of a different perspective on this, is that these cultures
00:19:11were shamanistic.
00:19:12All of these cultures around the globe were shamanistic.
00:19:16It was a very, very different way, then, from modern science to come to an understanding
00:19:23of the universe.
00:19:25So all of these cultures were engaging in shamanistic practices to connect up into the
00:19:30transcendent wisdom.
00:19:33So even though they were located in different parts of the globe, they were all connecting
00:19:36into the same fount of knowledge.
00:19:41Ancient cultures around the globe were very astute sky watchers, more so than we give
00:19:46them credit for today.
00:19:49And they were aware of the cycles of the sun and the moon, and they paid very careful attention
00:19:54to the seasons and the differences in the sky, like, for example, the planets move differently
00:20:00than the stars.
00:20:02So it's very clear that many of these ancient cultures became aware of the slow shifting
00:20:09of the stars in relation to the seasons.
00:20:12This is precession, the precession of the equinoxes.
00:20:16There is an emerging model of earth harmonics and how the ancients perceived the earth.
00:20:23They were not only astute sky watchers, but they were what we might call surveyors of
00:20:29the earth.
00:20:30They were mappers, and so they would map out the earth.
00:20:33They were interested in these kinds of things.
00:20:35They were interested in their environment.
00:20:39So what we have is many sacred sites around the world that are located on specific meridians,
00:20:47specific latitudes and longitudes, and they seem to be placed in harmonic relationship
00:20:53with each other.
00:20:55This is a very, very interesting thing, and it seems to be beyond coincidence.
00:20:59Now the way that I think that this was relevant is that what this seems to point to, and we're
00:21:06not real clear on what this is all about, but what it seems to point to is an ancient
00:21:14harmonic grid science, like a lost science of harmonics in which perhaps widely disparate
00:21:21cultures were communicating with each other or they were drawing energy out of the earth
00:21:25harmonic grid.
00:21:28In the archaeological record, there's been recent discoveries that indicate that there
00:21:32were connections between, for example, the Phoenicians and South America.
00:21:38For example, there were Roman trading vessels found in the mouth of the Amazon.
00:21:44There's actually a lot of evidence that there were contacts going on around the world.
00:21:51Now that's very interesting.
00:21:54The Maya, however, seem to have developed some very original perspectives on these things.
00:22:00For example, their long count calendar.
00:22:03There's no precedent for this calendar tradition, its mechanics and how it really operates.
00:22:10There's no precedent for this anywhere else in the world, so it's reasonable to suspect
00:22:15that the Maya developed the long count tradition, which is the 2012 calendar, on their own.
00:22:23There's similarities between the Mayan pyramids and the Egyptian pyramids in the general intent
00:22:30of the builders of those pyramids.
00:22:33They were intending these pyramids to mirror the sky, and they were encoding the proportions
00:22:39and the cycles that they see in the sky into the pyramid structure.
00:22:45In these ancient shamanistic societies, they had similar goals.
00:22:52The ancient people of Mesoamerica, they share certain common traditions that we see around
00:23:00the globe, like, for example, temple building.
00:23:03My interpretation of this is that certainly there may have been trans-Atlantic and trans-Pacific
00:23:10voyages going on.
00:23:11In fact, the entire globe might have been connected by these ancient mariners.
00:23:17What I like to point out is sort of a different perspective on this, is that these cultures
00:23:22were shamanistic.
00:23:24All of these cultures around the globe were shamanistic.
00:23:27It was a very, very different way than from modern science to come to an understanding
00:23:34of the universe.
00:23:36So all of these cultures were engaging in shamanistic practices to connect up into the
00:23:42transcendent wisdom.
00:23:44So even though they were located in different parts of the globe, they were all connecting
00:23:47into the same fount of knowledge.
00:23:53If we cast back into the ancient past to try to come back into contact with wisdom, well,
00:24:00that's possibly one way to do it.
00:24:01The ancient cultures were seemingly in contact with this amazing universal wisdom.
00:24:07Well, the thing about universal wisdom is that it's everywhere at all times.
00:24:11The problem with the modern world is that our eyes are closed to the wisdom.
00:24:17But the thing is that today, in our world, we ourselves can open up our eyes to this
00:24:23cosmic wisdom.
00:24:25How would you like to be identified in the documentary?
00:24:36I would like to be identified as Dr. Maxine Asher, President, American World University
00:24:42International.
00:24:43Okay.
00:24:44Now, tell me, what made you first think that the story of a submerged city might be true?
00:24:52In 1959, I walked into the classroom of Dr. Julian Nava, who later became the United States
00:24:58Ambassador to Mexico under Jimmy Carter.
00:25:01He was teaching at Cal State Northridge.
00:25:03On the board were two words, Atlantis and Moira.
00:25:07He said, Class Moira means fate in Greek, and Atlantis was a submerged civilization.
00:25:14I believe it is someone's fate to find Atlantis.
00:25:18Coming from a man who had a Ph.D. from Harvard, chills went through my body, and I knew then
00:25:23that there was truth to the story.
00:25:26Okay.
00:25:27So, describe your journey, your trek, all the trials and tribulations until you ultimately
00:25:35found Atlantis.
00:25:37I had many trials and tribulations on the path to Atlantis.
00:25:43It was not a smooth path.
00:25:45It was a difficult one.
00:25:47First of all, nobody believed Atlantis was real.
00:25:50I made 50 trips to Spain, that's 50 overseas trips, in search of Atlantis, following Plato's
00:25:57story of Atlantis in his dialogues, The Timaeus and Critias.
00:26:02Unfortunately, nobody knew anything about Atlantis at that time, and I relied on cab
00:26:07drivers and the most inconsequential kinds of sources of information to find out about
00:26:14Atlantis.
00:26:15But, ultimately, I realized Plato was right, and I had to go to Cádiz, Spain, to find
00:26:21Atlantis.
00:26:22Okay.
00:26:23So, tell me, where did you actually find it?
00:26:29After speaking to Francisco Salazar Paco, a very important diver in Spain, and spending
00:26:35time with him, he said to me, Maxine, there are four submerged cities off the coast of
00:26:41Spain.
00:26:42I've read about Atlantis, Maxine, and I believe one of them is Atlantis, but we need to do
00:26:46some more exploring.
00:26:48And after many, many years, Paco was able to get photographs of this civilization, which
00:26:55we are absolutely confident, by water level and location, is Atlantis.
00:27:00Okay, so describe, you just mentioned photos.
00:27:04Describe what you felt when you first saw the photos and footage.
00:27:07We, well, I was terribly excited because it's very hard to get photos in the Atlantic Ocean.
00:27:13The sand covers up everything before you can get the photo, and the ruins were embedded
00:27:18in blocks of clamshells that had frozen together, and Paco had to hack them apart.
00:27:25But when I finally saw the photos, we had a city about two and a half miles wide by
00:27:29two and a half miles long.
00:27:31We could see fireplaces.
00:27:33We could see remnants of buildings.
00:27:36We could see pottery, all sorts of things, 120 feet down on the continental shelf.
00:27:42That's fantastic.
00:27:44Now, describe what the civilization was like back in those days, when it was flourishing.
00:27:51It's my hunch, and you have to go on a hunch, that the Atlanteans were typical Mediterranean
00:27:56people.
00:27:57If you look at ancient Crete, you look at ancient Cyprus, all of the civilizations in
00:28:03the Mediterranean, they're all reflections of Atlantis.
00:28:06These were Mediterranean-style people, and they, according to the scientists, don't really
00:28:14know about them, but the psychics, like Edgar Cayce, tell us that they were very advanced,
00:28:19and in fact, they had a giant crystal that they used for power.
00:28:23Now, originally, we thought that was not true, that that was something made up, until I discovered
00:28:30that there were pieces of shattered crystal very close to where we found our photographs
00:28:34that had come from a great cataclysm.
00:28:36In 2004, I got a call from Spain that said, Maxine, the BBC has just announced that satellite
00:28:44photos of Atlantis have been discovered.
00:28:47When I saw the BBC article, I realized, my goodness, these photos were only 20 or 30
00:28:53miles from where we got our undersea photos.
00:28:56And so, I went to Spain immediately to do some television work, and I got a copy of
00:29:01the satellite photo, which was written up in Antiquity magazine, and a lot of work on
00:29:06this was done by Professor Kuhni in Germany, and lo and behold, the satellite photos reflected
00:29:13Plato's story and our photos.
00:29:15So we got a lot of corroboration for what we were working on.
00:29:19Okay, that's great.
00:29:21Now, what do you think the climate was like back then, when they were flourishing?
00:29:26I believe the climate in those days, 9600 BC, maybe a little earlier, was very similar
00:29:32to today.
00:29:33It was global warming.
00:29:35Even geologists will tell you that, climatologists will tell you that.
00:29:39And so, the ice began melting at the poles, and little by little, there's evidence that
00:29:43water was drifting down into Europe in big puddles.
00:29:46Well, just as you defrost a refrigerator, it drip, drip, drip, drip, and suddenly there
00:29:50was a huge break, and everything came tumbling in at once.
00:29:54Look at the Bible.
00:29:55It rained for 40 days and 40 nights, and everything was flooded.
00:29:59Today, we still have evidence of the flood in Spain.
00:30:03We have 35 miles of water where you cannot go from Portugal through the Cádiz because
00:30:08of an area called the Marismas, which is still evidence of that great flood.
00:30:13So, look at what is happening today.
00:30:16Places like the Maldive Islands are going to go underwater.
00:30:19Look at the piece of ice that broke off from the South Pole.
00:30:23We're in a global warming.
00:30:24They were in a global warming, too.
00:30:26Okay.
00:30:27Now, describe the seafaring abilities of that civilization.
00:30:33We have a hunch that the Atlanteans were able to navigate the seas.
00:30:39Remember, Atlantis at one point was a series of islands which spanned the entire Atlantic
00:30:43Ocean at one time.
00:30:44The story of how they got up there has to do with the platelets at the bottom of the
00:30:47ocean.
00:30:48They were able to go from island to island by boat.
00:30:52How do we know this?
00:30:53We have great similarities between Mexico and Egypt.
00:30:57You turn an Egyptian sideways, he looks like a Mayan Indian.
00:31:01You have the same pyramids.
00:31:02You have commonalities in the languages.
00:31:05There are Mayan characters in the Egyptian language.
00:31:09How did that happen?
00:31:10Well, they had to have a way to get across.
00:31:12We don't know how they navigated the waters because, obviously, that was long before compasses
00:31:17and other things were invented.
00:31:19A lot of it was done by experimentation, by hunch.
00:31:24The other day, there was a show on one of the channels that showed that Noah's Ark,
00:31:29when it took off, Noah didn't even know where he was.
00:31:32He was surrounded by water, but suddenly, he ended up, believe it or not, and the Ark
00:31:36is connected with this.
00:31:38The Ark ended up in what is now the country of Bahrain, according to this show, but Noah
00:31:44was at a loss to know where he was for a long period of time.
00:31:48That's probably true.
00:31:49You remember, there was a mistake.
00:31:51Columbus thought he was finding America, and he found Santa Domingo.
00:31:56We don't know.
00:31:57We think they guessed a lot.
00:32:00Anyway, could you describe the time frame for the sea level rise that engulfed Atlantis?
00:32:11Yes.
00:32:12We have evidence from cores taken from the ice in the poles.
00:32:17They measured the different sea levels, and I have this all scientifically documented
00:32:23in my new book, The Scientific Evidence for the Existence of Atlantis, that those cores
00:32:27showed that there was a 200-foot rise in sea level all over the Atlantic Ocean in 9600
00:32:32B.C.
00:32:33Look at the flood stories.
00:32:34The Navajos have flood stories.
00:32:36The Mayans have flood stories.
00:32:38There were floods everywhere.
00:32:40Big rise in sea level, 9600 B.C., yep.
00:32:46Okay.
00:32:48Do you know how quickly it rose?
00:32:52The seas rose quickly because of the fast ice melt.
00:32:58There's a book called Worlds in Upheaval.
00:33:02Emanuel Velikovsky wrote about catastrophes, and this particular catastrophe, the seas
00:33:08rose fast.
00:33:09The Bible says 40 days and 40 nights, and suddenly—but we know they rose very fast,
00:33:14and people rushed to make arcs.
00:33:17We have evidence at Gibraltar near Cadiz of people escaping a great flood in boats, petroglyphs,
00:33:24but they didn't escape.
00:33:25Only 1% of all the people probably escaped that flood.
00:33:29Okay.
00:33:30Do you know or have any idea how those ancient civilizations first got their knowledge to
00:33:37build their city and flourish and explore other islands?
00:33:42Well, we don't know how the ancients got their knowledge, but we do know from our studies
00:33:46now of the intuitive right side of the brain—I've done a lot of that in the schools—that
00:33:51the people had this creative ability.
00:33:54It is said that all the knowledge of the universe is right around us all the time, only our
00:33:59minds aren't trained to receive it.
00:34:01We need a long-distance radio in the brain.
00:34:03Well, the ancients weren't cluttered up with computers and all sorts of physical things,
00:34:09and so they were able to draw knowledge, in my opinion, to themselves.
00:34:13An example would be the Great Pyramids of Egypt, and they did remarkable things.
00:34:18Today, I think we've blotted out that side of the brain, and we need to restore it again.
00:34:23We're out of balance.
00:34:24Okay, well, that's great.
00:34:28Okay, now briefly discuss the status of Atlantis in the context of many other sites worldwide
00:34:36that are now underwater, such as those found off Malta, Egypt, Lebanon, India, Japan.
00:34:41Are there other cities still to be found underwater?
00:34:45Yes, there certainly are other cities to be found underwater, and we have evidence of
00:34:49that every day.
00:34:50In fact, a city was found recently in the Black Sea that was 8,000 years old.
00:34:55Now, the most important thing is that there's a book called Atlantis, Mother of Empires,
00:35:01and I think that Stacey Judd is the author, I'm not sure, but in any case, you see similarities
00:35:08among the cultures, similarities between Ireland and Wales, similarities between the
00:35:15Basque language and the Irish language in their music.
00:35:19It's all sorts of commonalities in these cultures that were influenced by Atlantis.
00:35:24So Atlantis influenced certainly all of the Mediterranean cultures, certainly those on
00:35:28the other side of the ocean.
00:35:30We talked about that earlier.
00:35:34Atlantis was the mother of empires.
00:35:37It was the first truly civilized place in the ancient world, but it was demolished.
00:35:46And I'd like to mention that between Atlantis and the time Egypt started, around 5,000 BC,
00:35:51there were many upheavals, many cataclysms.
00:35:55They got the knowledge, they lost it.
00:35:56They got it and they lost it.
00:35:59And so it didn't get solidified until Egypt started.
00:36:03Well, we know there were civilizations certainly off the coast of Egypt, Alexandria.
00:36:08We know that there were civilizations, certainly we've seen underwater cities off Malta, off
00:36:16Crete, off Ireland.
00:36:19There was a place called St. Brendan's Island that was on an earlier map that is no longer
00:36:24there.
00:36:25A good book is Maps of the Ancient Sea Kings by Charles Hapgood, shows you where the land
00:36:29was and it's not there anymore.
00:36:31Well, where did it go?
00:36:32It's obviously underwater.
00:36:34So everywhere in the world, the whole history of the world lies underwater.
00:36:38If we'd get off the space shot for two years and use the money for underwater research,
00:36:43the whole history of the world, our origins would be discovered, in my opinion.
00:36:48You asked me about the Great Pyramid of Egypt and where did the technology come from where
00:36:54they were able to build a pyramid in perfect dimension without any mortar between the bricks,
00:37:00that they were able to form acoustical sounds in the pyramids.
00:37:04How do I know?
00:37:05I was there.
00:37:06I was in every chamber of the pyramid.
00:37:08I went with Paul Horn who made a flute concert in the pyramid.
00:37:12We did biofeedback in the pyramid to see what kind of properties it has and they're huge.
00:37:19And so I think your question to me was, how did they get this knowledge?
00:37:24Well, if you read Peter Tompkins' book, Secrets of the Great Pyramid, his thought is that
00:37:30it was just known to them.
00:37:31They just knew how to do it because the Great Pyramid parallels astronomy.
00:37:37In other words, it has an astronomical alignment that's absolutely perfect.
00:37:42And so obviously they didn't know about astronomy in those days so they must have experimented
00:37:47until they got it right.
00:37:48You have another area in the world, Newgrange, Caves of Newgrange in Ireland, where the sun
00:37:53shines through on a certain day every year.
00:37:56They knew to build the cave just so they picked up the sunlight at that time.
00:38:00Stonehenge too, in England, has the same properties.
00:38:04So the ancients in many places knew how to align things astronomically for their benefit.
00:38:11Okay, now then following up on that, could the ancients have developed advanced maps
00:38:21and used devices like our current sextant to navigate the world with this knowledge?
00:38:29Yes, I think the ancients had some marvelous maps.
00:38:31I referred earlier to Hapgood's book, Maps of the Ancient Sea Kings.
00:38:34They were remarkable maps considering the state of cartography in those days.
00:38:41We don't know how they knew it except maybe from traversing the islands they figured it
00:38:45out.
00:38:46As far as navigational instruments, those were not in place until the Middle Ages.
00:38:51So they didn't have those.
00:38:53But they must have had some makeshift...
00:38:56I think they used the winds a lot to determine things when they were out, the directions
00:39:02of the winds.
00:39:04I'm not a sailor, unfortunately, but my hunch is they simply knew.
00:39:11And I want to say one more thing.
00:39:12From teaching school, children would come up with things that were never in the books.
00:39:16And I would say to this child, Johnny, how did you know that?
00:39:21I don't know, Dr. Escher.
00:39:22I just knew.
00:39:24So kids have that intuitive knowing as well.
00:39:27Was there a connection between Atlantis and all of these other ancient civilizations around
00:39:31the world?
00:39:32Probably, but not constantly.
00:39:35There was obviously, there was communication, but there was disruption either due to catastrophes,
00:39:41other catastrophes, or the fact that nobody was traveling during those periods.
00:39:46But obviously, if we look at the pyramid at Tikal in Guatemala, and we look at the pyramids
00:39:50in Egypt, we see tremendous similarities.
00:39:53Tikal is a lot like the pyramid at Saqqara in Egypt.
00:39:57As I said, there are 25 Egyptian characters in the Mayan alphabet.
00:40:01How in the world did they get there?
00:40:03So yes, they were in touch.
00:40:05And I also visited with the Navajo Indians.
00:40:08And the Navajo Indians in our country have a flood story.
00:40:12And they have a language that is unusual.
00:40:15During World War II, they had the Navajo code talkers.
00:40:17But that language too is related to certain ancient languages.
00:40:21I worked a lot with Cyrus Gordon from Brandeis University.
00:40:25He wrote a book called Riddles in History, where you get into all these connections between
00:40:30words.
00:40:31If you trace words, you trace the history of the world.
00:40:35The oldest sounds in the world are ash, ava, ag.
00:40:41And those can be found in certain places.
00:40:43And that's how you can tell the routes that civilization took.
00:40:46That's all other subject linguistics.
00:40:48Fascinated by it.
00:40:50Okay.
00:40:51Now, go into a little bit, describe how the southern Spanish town of Cadiz got its name.
00:40:57Well, I was absolutely amazed.
00:40:59Of course, I just love Cadiz.
00:41:01And I started asking people, and then they said, oh, the old name for Cadiz was Gadiz.
00:41:06And I said, okay.
00:41:08And they said, and the other name was Kaddish.
00:41:10I go, wait a minute, Kaddish is the prayer for the dead in the Jewish religion.
00:41:16Listen to this, Kadiz, Gadiz, Kaddish.
00:41:19The sound is the same, not the spelling.
00:41:22Well, my question to myself was, if everybody died at Gibraltar, which we believe they did,
00:41:29that's right near Cadiz, is that why Kaddish is the prayer for the dead?
00:41:35And there's another thing.
00:41:36A lot of the cities that were in the Holy Land were first in Spain.
00:41:41We have proof that Tarshish was Tartessus of Spain and later was renamed in the Holy
00:41:48Land.
00:41:49The people went across after the flood.
00:41:52So I spent a lot of time on phonetics, acoustical phonetics, to figure out where people came
00:41:59from by the sounds and the words.
00:42:01It's fascinating.
00:42:03The advanced knowledge that the ancients had, according to what I understand, was placed
00:42:08in the libraries at Alexandria in Egypt.
00:42:12But the libraries were destroyed in 396 A.D. and also in another time.
00:42:19So we lost them.
00:42:20When the libraries at Alexandria were destroyed, we lost a great deal of that knowledge.
00:42:27One of the greatest ladies in the world, Queen Sophia of Greece, and some people from
00:42:32the Middle East, they were going to rebuild the libraries at Alexandria in order to see
00:42:36if they could restore some of the ancient knowledge in our time.
00:42:41The procession of the equinox is the movement of the stars over vast periods of time.
00:42:55You can notice that by looking due east on the equinox.
00:43:03Astronomers have noticed that a different constellation will come into view.
00:43:08So if Aquarius is dawning at the spring equinox right now, Pisces has been there for the last
00:43:172,000 years.
00:43:18Before that was Aries, et cetera.
00:43:22And so it takes about 24,000 to 26,000 years to actually see all the 12 zodiacs along the
00:43:31ecliptic pass through the equinox.
00:43:35The ancient Greeks had believed in a heliocentric system, sun in the center, planets go around
00:43:42it.
00:43:43Aristarchus of Samos had talked about this, Phileos, Archimedes.
00:43:48That knowledge was lost as we went into the Dark Ages.
00:43:52And their thing stood with the Catholic Church and Ptolemy supporting this geocentric view.
00:44:02And it wasn't until Copernicus came along in 1543 when we sort of got back to a heliocentric
00:44:11view.
00:44:12And so he said the Earth has three motions.
00:44:15It spins on its axis, and that's why we see the sun appearing to go around the Earth,
00:44:20but it's caused by the Earth spinning.
00:44:22And the Earth goes around the sun, and that causes the seasons.
00:44:27And he needed a third motion to explain the procession of the equinox.
00:44:31So he said the Earth wobbled.
00:44:33I really don't think procession is a mapping-the-globe issue.
00:44:41It's a device that the ancients used to sort of keep time, where we are in this great cycle.
00:44:47So you have the age of Taurus, and you find a lot of bull icons and artifacts of that
00:44:56era.
00:44:57Same thing with the age of Aries, et cetera.
00:45:01So that wasn't really the purpose of procession.
00:45:06But to kind of get back to the science point, Copernicus, again, had said that procession
00:45:14of the equinox is caused by the wobbling Earth.
00:45:17Newton then came along and said, well, if the Earth wobbles, it must be due to the forces
00:45:22of the moon and the sun.
00:45:24So we kind of came up with this lunisolar theory.
00:45:28And that's sort of the theory that's in existence now.
00:45:34However, we've found evidence at the Binary Research Institute that the Earth's axis does
00:45:39not wobble relative to objects within the solar system-sun, moon, Venus.
00:45:48It only appears to wobble relative to objects outside the solar system, about 50 arcseconds
00:45:54per year.
00:45:55Thus, we think the reason for the procession of the equinox is the whole solar system is
00:46:01curving through space, not just an independently wobbling Earth.
00:46:07All around the world, we find evidence of advanced cultures in the very distant past.
00:46:14And those cultures decline.
00:46:16So in the Indus Valley, we have Mohenjo-daro, Harappa, and very complex cities, indoor plumbing,
00:46:26sewage systems, et cetera.
00:46:29And not only do those cities go away, but those technologies sort of disappear around
00:46:34the rest of the world.
00:46:35Ancient Mesopotamia was much the same.
00:46:37And not only did they have those technologies, but we found great knowledge of astronomy.
00:46:43We found that they have trepanation devices.
00:46:46These are devices used for brain surgery.
00:46:48And they found skulls with perfect little circles in them that healed up.
00:46:53And yet all that knowledge goes away as Sumer, Akkad, Babylon just go to dust.
00:47:00And of course, the whole Mediterranean cultures went away with Egypt declining, Greece, Rome,
00:47:09and finally this Dark Age.
00:47:12And Western science tends to believe that, well, that just happened here in the West.
00:47:17But if you look at the archaeological record closely, it appears that it also happened
00:47:22in China and the Americas.
00:47:25So civilization collapses.
00:47:28And the question is, why do we have this worldwide collapse?
00:47:34And the ancients would tell us that it has something to do with procession.
00:47:39They had a myth that was prevalent throughout the world that life moved in cycles with a
00:47:48golden age at one end and a dark age at the other.
00:47:53And they knew that they were in a declining age.
00:47:56As a matter of fact, Stephan Mahle, one of the foremost Assyrianologists, has been interpreting
00:48:04some of these cuneiform clay tablets and found that they seem to revere the past and refer
00:48:11to it as a high time.
00:48:14And they fear and dread the future.
00:48:20Greeks said the same thing.
00:48:22So they knew they were declining, and it has something to do with procession.
00:48:28How they knew these things, we don't know.
00:48:31That's the big mystery that we're all working on, not just here at Binary Research Institute,
00:48:37but Graham Hancock, John West, and all these independent researchers all around the world
00:48:42that have sort of come together to spontaneously collaborate and write books on this subject.
00:48:52And so some theories are that there was a mother culture, such as Atlantis, and that's
00:48:57where the knowledge came from.
00:48:59Others like Sitchin say, well, no, the Earth was hunter-gatherers for millions of years,
00:49:05and then aliens came, and that gave the knowledge.
00:49:09I tend to believe the Greek, the story of the great year, that it's cyclical, that knowledge
00:49:18ebbs and flows like the celestial cycles, day and night, the seasons.
00:49:24And it's caused indirectly by this great year movement that we see as the procession of
00:49:30the equinox.
00:49:31You know, they seem to be at their height near the beginning of the archaeological record,
00:49:36and they decline, and they lose the ability to build pyramids completely, and then the
00:49:42civilization pretty much goes away and buried under the sands.
00:49:47And this has happened all over the world.
00:49:49And so why does this knowledge go away?
00:49:53And we think that it has to do with the way the Earth is affected as it goes through various
00:50:02cycles.
00:50:03For example, as the Earth spins on its axis, you have the cycles of day and night, increasing
00:50:10light and darkness.
00:50:12As the Earth goes around the sun, it affects, it causes the seasons, and, you know, plants
00:50:20spring out of the ground, bears hibernate, fish spawn, et cetera, it affects all life.
00:50:26So too, if there is a third motion, if our sun is indeed going around another star as
00:50:33we postulate, then you would have the same electromagnetic effect interacting with the
00:50:40Earth, the magnetosphere, ionosphere, and we believe, indirectly, consciousness.
00:50:46But let me just try to clarify one point.
00:50:49I think, you know, if we're looking for evidence of cycles, we tend to see things through our
00:50:58own lens of what is a modern age.
00:51:01So we think that, you know, cell phones and computers and big buildings are the sign of
00:51:06a high age, because that's what we've developed in the last 50 years, 100 years.
00:51:12And I believe that the ancients have a much different view of what an advanced culture
00:51:18is.
00:51:19Indeed, I would think we would perceive it more as a hunter-gatherer style, whereas they
00:51:25would view living in closer attunement with nature as a beneficial thing.
00:51:34And so I don't know that we're going to find, you know, all this technology and big buildings
00:51:43and stuff.
00:51:44I think ancient man was much wiser than that.
00:51:48I don't think he was mucking up the Earth.
00:51:51The Great Pyramid is an amazing artifact of a higher culture.
00:51:57It's made of two and a half to three million blocks of stone.
00:52:02The smaller ones are several tons, and the larger ones are dozens of tons.
00:52:08I think there's one that's about 70 tons in the king's chamber.
00:52:13And supposedly, it was built during Khufu's reign, a period of 20 to 30 years, something
00:52:19like that.
00:52:21And it just is inconceivable how you could put that many large stones into place in that
00:52:28period of time.
00:52:30Because if you think about it nowadays, trying to move a 50-ton stone, you know, that's a
00:52:35– you'll plan that for several weeks and then get your whole crew together to move
00:52:40one stone.
00:52:42Here we are in the year 2005, 2006, trying to look back and interpret what the ancients
00:52:51knew.
00:52:53And we tend to filter that information, consciously or not, through our own biases, our own context.
00:53:01And the principal context we use is that evolution is fairly linear, that we went from caveman
00:53:09to modern man and a few bumps along the way, but we're progressing.
00:53:14We should be much better now than we were, and therefore ancient man is primitive.
00:53:19However, if you use the ancient context, that life is cyclical, just as the day and the
00:53:28seasons are cyclical, then if you go back far enough, actually prior to about 1500 B.C.,
00:53:36you would expect to start to see things that reflect a higher consciousness.
00:53:42And so it presents a whole different way to look at the archaeological record.
00:53:48There's some ruins in Turkey that go back to 9,000 or 10,000 years, 50-ton poles, shafts.
00:54:01They appear to be the residue of a great building, and they're carved.
00:54:07And it's completely out of context with the notion that we all learned in school that
00:54:12anything prior to 5,000 years ago was just hunter-gatherer.
00:54:17And so they're finding more and more of this, but it's buried, it's deep.
00:54:22The ancient structures in Egypt tend to be the lowest down, whereas the new ones are
00:54:2920 to 40 feet above current levels.
00:54:32Personally, I was looking for an answer to history.
00:54:35We were taught that it was linear.
00:54:38The ancients taught that it was cyclical.
00:54:40All the evidence I see is that you had these great cultures all around the world that declined
00:54:44into a dark age, and now we're going back up.
00:54:47So I was trying to find some reason for a cyclical record.
00:54:53And I found several books that made reference to a possible dual star or dual suns and found
00:55:03this also in the myth and folklore.
00:55:06And so began a search in earnest about five years ago when I formed the Binary Research
00:55:12Institute to really zero in, could our sun have a companion star?
00:55:19And we've hired mathematicians, astrophysicists, consulted with them, talked quite a bit over
00:55:26the internet, and it turns out that about 80 percent of all stars are either in binary
00:55:36or multiple systems.
00:55:38So why wouldn't our own sun also have a partner if that's the majority?
00:55:44And if so, could that produce the phenomenon that we call the precession of the equinox?
00:55:49Again, all these myths and folklore are tied to the precession of the equinox.
00:55:55And so we really began to examine the current theory of precession and found out that there
00:56:04are some big problems with it.
00:56:07One is that the Earth's axis does not appear to wobble relative to local objects, sun,
00:56:14moon, Venus, et cetera, whereas it clearly wobbles relative to the distant stars, quasars
00:56:20that we measure against.
00:56:22And the only way we can see that phenomena happening is if the whole solar system itself
00:56:29is curving through space.
00:56:31And the only reason the solar system would curve through space is if it's going around
00:56:35another very large mass, meaning we're in a binary star system.
00:56:45What is the Milankovitch cycle and could that have been the cause of an ice age?
00:56:50Milankovitch was a geophysicist, I think a good hundred years ago, I don't remember for
00:56:55certain, who speculated that changes in the orbit of the Earth or in the inclination of
00:57:05the axis of the Earth might have an effect on the climate of the Earth and in particular
00:57:10might cause ice ages.
00:57:12He was viewed as a crank in his day.
00:57:15No one expected that that would be a legitimate argument.
00:57:21And then about the same time that seafloor spreading was demonstrated to cause continental
00:57:27drift, so in the 60s, the 1960s, people found evidence that in fact there were cycles in
00:57:36the ice ages that corresponded to the Milankovitch cycles.
00:57:40There's three main cycles.
00:57:43The ellipticity of the orbit of the Earth varies on about a 100,000 year cycle.
00:57:48So it gets more circular and then it gets more elongated.
00:57:53The inclination of the axis changes its time of precession, it changes the precession,
00:58:02and so you get different amounts of sunlight at different times of year and different times
00:58:08of the cycle, different periods of the cycle.
00:58:13Nowadays it's fairly generally accepted that there's some relationship between these cycles,
00:58:21the Milankovitch cycles and ice ages.
00:58:25It hasn't been proven so far as I know.
00:58:29In order to prove this, you would have to have a realistic model of the Earth's climate,
00:58:32a mathematical model that could reproduce the climate correctly, which would also, if
00:58:39you gave it the appropriate changes in solar input, reproduce the ice ages.
00:58:45To the best of my knowledge, that hasn't been done yet.
00:58:49It's an extremely difficult problem to model the full climate system, and I do expect that
00:58:55eventually they'll manage this.
00:58:57The coincidence between the timing of the ice ages and the Milankovitch cycles is pretty
00:59:03convincing, but I would say it's still a theory, it's not a fact, it's not a demonstrated fact.
00:59:10There's a factor that we always have to consider when you think about the history of civilization,
00:59:16which is that when you get more and more people in an area, they tend to use up things that
00:59:21make an area temperate, like trees and water.
00:59:28You'll find that areas where people have lived for a long time often become desert, it's
00:59:34desertification referred to, and there's some involvement of civilization.
00:59:39If you cut down all the trees and you don't let more grow, and if the soil erodes, you
00:59:45get less plant cover, plant cover holds moisture, and so places become more arid simply because
00:59:52people live there.
00:59:56We, I think, know a little bit about how to prevent that nowadays, and you don't see it
00:59:59quite as readily, but we think that in the Fertile Crescent in Samaria and in India and
01:00:09in Egypt, it's likely that that did play some role.
01:00:13It's also likely that the fact that 10,000 or say 20,000 years ago, we were in the depth
01:00:20of a cold period, an ice age, meant that the storm tracks that occur in the winter
01:00:28in the northern hemisphere were further south than they are now, and so those storms would
01:00:34bring rainfall to northern Africa, and there is some evidence that, for example, the Sahara
01:00:40Desert was more moist, had running streams and rivers, had lakes that were larger, had
01:00:47wildlife that was consistent with a more humid environment, and it's pretty reasonable
01:00:52to guess that that was also the case in eastern Africa where Egypt is.
01:00:58Egypt is such an unusual situation with the Nile and its regular floods that it may not
01:01:05be a perfectly safe conclusion to draw, but northern Africa in general does seem to have
01:01:12been wetter, more humid, probably cooler than it is in the present day.
01:01:17The most recent glacial epoch seemed to peak about 18,000 years ago, and the warmest period
01:01:27since then was about 8,000 years ago, so a reasonable statement would be that it ended
01:01:34between those two times, between 18,000 and 8,000 years ago.
01:01:40You could also argue that it hasn't ever completely ended because we do have ice caps
01:01:45now, and so by some reasonable definitions, we're still in an ice age, however, clearly
01:01:52we're not anywhere near the cold conditions we were 18,000 years ago.
01:01:58The meltdown took place over that 10,000-year period, I believe, if I remember correctly,
01:02:10since that climatic optimum 8,000 years ago, the ice caps have been relatively stable.
01:02:17We haven't had big advances or decreases.
01:02:20There's been some change, but it's been sort of level since then.
01:02:28It wasn't a uniform meltdown.
01:02:30It was the sort of thing where it was 18,000 years ago, it was very cold and very extensive
01:02:36ice 15,000 years ago.
01:02:38I think it was still pretty similar, and by 12,000, it was melting quickly.
01:02:45I guess I do remember that the North American ice cap, for example, didn't fully melt away
01:02:52until even after the climatic optimum, so we still had ice caps in Labrador and northern
01:02:58Canada even after that 8,000-year-ago period.
01:03:03We know from observations in the last 30 or 40 years that some volcanic eruptions have
01:03:10a fairly significant effect on the climate over a several-year time scale.
01:03:18Eruptions like El Chichon and Pinatubo, which put a lot of sulfuric acid and particulates
01:03:26into the high atmosphere, into the stratosphere, where it stays for a long time, have an effect
01:03:31on the amount of sunlight that makes it to the Earth's surface.
01:03:34They act like a sunshade, and they tend to cool the summers.
01:03:40They don't cool the winters very much, because in the winter, there's not a lot of sun anyway,
01:03:45and so it's not as strong an effect.
01:03:47But you'll have cool summers after a big volcanic eruption.
01:03:51I don't know of any evidence that there were big volcanic eruptions, and by big, I mean
01:03:57much bigger than Pinatubo or Chichon, gigantic, the sort that created the Deccan Spills in
01:04:05India.
01:04:06There are some eruptions that are known to geologists to have been so enormous that it's
01:04:13thought they would have an effect on global climate that would last for hundreds or thousands
01:04:17of years.
01:04:18Nothing like that seemed to have occurred during the last 100,000 or a million years.
01:04:25The biggest eruption that I've even heard reference to is one of the Yellowstone eruptions.
01:04:33I've never heard anyone claim that they thought that had a big effect on the Ice Age timing.
01:04:40Sea level rose at the end of the Ice Age for the really simple, obvious reason that we
01:04:45had a lot of ice tied up in the ice caps on land.
01:04:49At the end of the Ice Age, they melted, and that ice turned into water and flowed down
01:04:54to the ocean.
01:04:57The water in the ocean rose, I believe, by a few hundred feet, a hundred meters or more
01:05:06comes to mind.
01:05:08You had things, for example, during the Ice Age, North America was connected to Eurasia
01:05:15across the Bering Straits.
01:05:17That was dry land, and that got flooded.
01:05:21England and Ireland were connected to Europe, and as the water rose, that got flooded.
01:05:28The Mediterranean Sea was dried out because the Straits of Gibraltar were closed off,
01:05:34and that got flooded.
01:05:36The Black Sea was flooded at some point.
01:05:41All these things happened as the sea level rose.
01:05:44There's another factor, which is that water expands when you warm it.
01:05:51If the water in the ocean became warmer by several degrees, it would expand and sea level
01:05:57would rise a bit because of that alone.
01:06:00We're actually seeing that now, but compared to the water that came from the ice caps melting,
01:06:06that was a very small effect then.
01:06:09Certainly, this recent Ice Age, there's no evidence that ice and snow covered the whole
01:06:15planet.
01:06:17There is speculation there was a period in the past, much longer ago, where you had snowball
01:06:24Earth that's been referred to, the entire planet covered with ice and snow.
01:06:30This more recent Ice Age, the last million or ten million years, nothing like that has
01:06:36happened.
01:06:37As the ice caps expanded, they stopped at an area, like in North America, Long Island
01:06:45is a terminal moraine.
01:06:48It's the edge of where the ice cap was.
01:06:50You'll see the same sort of thing across, I believe, Pennsylvania and into the Midwest.
01:06:57Wherever the ice cap ended, you tend to see these lumps of sand and gravel that got carried
01:07:03within the glaciers and dropped there as it melted.
01:07:08We can actually tell fairly effectively where the edge of the Ice Cap was.
01:07:15The animals would migrate, plants and animals.
01:07:20These things moved, it took thousands of years for them to advance hundreds of miles or even
01:07:27tens of miles in some cases.
01:07:30There was enough time for especially animals, but even plants could move to keep pace with
01:07:38their preferred climate zones.
01:07:41In some cases, they would get trapped.
01:07:43I've heard of examples where, for example, a population of maybe squirrels would retreat
01:07:52instead of retreating, say, during the warming, the ice caps melting.
01:07:58Instead of retreating north, they would retreat up in, say, the Rockies or the Appalachians.
01:08:03Of course, they couldn't go terribly far because it only goes so far up.
01:08:10They might die out if it got too warm, or they might be trapped there.
01:08:14They couldn't leave the mountains they were in because in every direction it was too warm
01:08:20for them.
01:08:21You get both plants and animals into that sort of situation.
01:08:24For the most part, animals would migrate north or south, poleward or equatorward, to
01:08:33stay in their preferred climatic zone, both plants and animals.
01:08:38Large mammals are a little bit of a special case because most large mammals are quite
01:08:43adaptable and can move rapidly.
01:08:50For example, they certainly wouldn't be trapped on a mountain range.
01:08:53If you get an elk, elk like to live in relatively cold climates.
01:08:59If they retreated up a hill where it was cooler and they found it got too warm, they'd set
01:09:04out and they'd go somewhere else.
01:09:06Enough would make it to the north that it would not be a problem.
01:09:12Large mammals would be reasonably safe in either case, but if their food sources changed
01:09:19enough, that might cause them significant trouble.
01:09:21We don't really know what the cloud cover was during the ice ages, but if we did have
01:09:27more extensive cloud cover, certainly clouds tend to warm the surface, especially in cold
01:09:36regions.
01:09:37They tend to trap.
01:09:39Cold regions are cold partly because when the sun goes down, the earth radiates heat
01:09:46out into space.
01:09:48So if you have cloud cover, especially low clouds, it acts like a blanket and it traps
01:09:52that heat and keeps the surface warmer than it would be otherwise.
01:09:56So that certainly would happen, but we don't really know.
01:10:01Nowadays, ice caps tend to be dry and clear areas.
01:10:06Antarctica has few clouds and the Arctic in winter tends to be relatively clear, so it
01:10:14gets colder in fact because of that.
01:10:17There's also, while there is an association between clouds and rainfall, it's not a perfect
01:10:23one.
01:10:24It doesn't always rain just because you have more cloud.
01:10:27Some cloudy areas like Southern California, especially if you go offshore, it can be pretty
01:10:33cloudy a lot of the year, but it's the sort of cloud cover, it's called stratocumulus
01:10:38that really doesn't rain significantly.
01:10:40You may get a little drizzle, but it can be very, very dry in some areas.
01:10:45It doesn't take a lot of snow to create the ice caps, it just takes snow that lasts through
01:10:50the summer.
01:10:54Antarctica is ice covered, snow covered, and has been for millions of years, but from what
01:11:01we can see now, it doesn't snow very much there at all.
01:11:04It's just that what snow falls stays, it doesn't melt.
01:11:09But the fact is, we don't know what the beginning of an ice age is.
01:11:14We really don't know how the ice caps, say, over North America begin to grow.
01:11:22It's certainly possible that an argument was presented many years ago that suppose the
01:11:29Arctic Ocean melts, instead of having permanent ice cover, you have open water.
01:11:34Well, then you would get more evaporation because ice doesn't evaporate anywhere near
01:11:39as much as water.
01:11:40You would get more cloud, and you'd probably get more snowfall.
01:11:46Maybe an ice age begins with heavier snowfalls associated with open water.
01:11:53It can't last forever, and it can't account for the entire growth of the ice cap because
01:11:59before the ice cap was finished growing, the ocean would freeze over.
01:12:03But maybe there's some role in the beginning.
01:12:05We absolutely have no idea what really happens at the beginning of a glacial expansion.
01:12:10Okay, thank you.
01:12:12Just one more question.
01:12:13Can you explain the presence of elephants in Siberia and hippos in England during the
01:12:19ice age?
01:12:20Might these have been temperate zones?
01:12:23No.
01:12:25Elephants are actually pretty well adapted to cold temperatures because they're large.
01:12:30Large animals retain heat better.
01:12:36The elephants, the mammoths that were found in Siberia, were actually pretty heavily haired.
01:12:43They have lots of hair, lots of insulation.
01:12:46They're well adapted to cold temperatures.
01:12:50There's also speculation that they weren't there during the coldest part of the ice age,
01:12:56that they were there sort of during the interglacial periods.
01:13:00When it got really cold, they would migrate south to get away from the actual glaciers.
01:13:06If you have the ice ages, the coldest periods are really identified by extensive ice caps,
01:13:15and that's completely inconsistent with having temperate zones.
01:13:18Now the hippos is a different story.
01:13:21I don't actually know anything about hippos in England.
01:13:26They live in water, and they spend virtually all of their time in water, and they eat aquatic
01:13:32plants.
01:13:33You have to have liquid water, but I have absolutely no idea what sort of temperature
01:13:39it would have to be.
01:13:40You have lots of marine mammals that live in very cold water.
01:13:47It's not immediately obvious they couldn't live in cold water.
01:13:53Hippos, they have lots of fat for insulation, but nowadays they don't seem to live in cold
01:13:58water, so maybe there's a connection.
01:14:01Out of my area, I'm sorry.
01:14:03Thank you.
01:14:04Tell us a little bit about your background and how you heard about the underwater site.
01:14:15I lived on Okinawa for a period of seven years, from the time of 1995 until 2002.
01:14:24At that time, I was on active duty in the Marine Corps, and I was also an underwater
01:14:30photography instructor and a professional scuba diving instructor.
01:14:36I was really tuned into the scuba scene, if you will, of the Okinawan islands.
01:14:42Okinawa has got a nice chain of islands stretching from southern Japan almost to Taiwan.
01:14:49It was in about 1996 that the scuba scene, the folks in the know started really chatting
01:14:56it up about this finding that was down on Yonaguni Island.
01:15:01Yonaguni Island is almost 1,200 miles south of Tokyo.
01:15:06It's about 400 miles south of Okinawa.
01:15:10It's really closest to Taiwan, where it's only about 135 miles east of Taiwan, just
01:15:17off the northeast corner.
01:15:19We heard about it, and I thought, what a great adventure.
01:15:25Because I was an underwater photography instructor, I also have also been a photojournalist, which
01:15:31I really enjoy a lot.
01:15:33I like to scuba dive.
01:15:34I love photography, and have certainly made it more than a passion as a profession.
01:15:40I thought that it would be great to go down and cover this, and then publish my findings
01:15:46from a trip to Yonaguni.
01:15:49Describe where the Yonaguni site is.
01:15:53The island of Yonaguni, like I say, is closer to Taiwan than it is to mainland Japan, significantly
01:15:59closer.
01:16:00135 miles north-northeast of Taiwan is where the island of Yonaguni sits.
01:16:07That's about 350 miles south of Okinawa, and about 1,200 miles south of Tokyo.
01:16:14So it's real close to Taiwan.
01:16:16The monuments are found on Iseki Point.
01:16:19Iseki Point is on the northeastern corner of that island.
01:16:28Do you think the site is man-made or natural?
01:16:32Well, I'll tell you, I went into this open-minded.
01:16:35I went into it as a photographer.
01:16:36I'm not a geologist.
01:16:38I'm not a specialist in these things.
01:16:42My first trip, I kept an open mind and photographed it, but as I developed the photos, as I worked
01:16:49with the photos, and I did more research on the articles that I was writing for publication
01:16:56in scuba diving magazines and things like that, I started to lean towards man-made.
01:17:02It just started to really stand out that this had to be touched by the hands of man.
01:17:10I'll describe this as you descend onto the monuments at Iseki Point.
01:17:16When you roll off the boat and you begin to descend, you descend into about 75 to 80 feet
01:17:23of water.
01:17:24It's very clear, very, very clear water.
01:17:29The discoverer, Arataki, will take you to a certain point.
01:17:36You're very disoriented.
01:17:39You've splashed into the water.
01:17:41There's a lot of current.
01:17:42The water's moving fast, and you're sounding as fast as you can to get to the bottom and
01:17:47equalize and get ready for the dive.
01:17:51Then you go through an opening.
01:17:54This opening is through solid rock, and it's a square opening.
01:18:00You scoot through this opening, and then you come out into a clearing.
01:18:05The opening is much like a gate.
01:18:07It's been described by one of the professors from the University of Ryukyu, Professor Kimura,
01:18:14as a gesuku, Japanese for gate.
01:18:17You go through this gate, and you come into an opening, like a courtyard.
01:18:21At that courtyard rises up this, I call it an obelisk.
01:18:27It's a large square column rising up from about 60 feet of water to about 20 feet, 15
01:18:34feet of water.
01:18:35It's huge.
01:18:36It would weigh tons and tons and tons.
01:18:38It's that big.
01:18:39It's just cutting away from this large hill of limestone.
01:18:47This large hill is some 75 feet to about 15 feet.
01:18:51That's where you first see the iseki point, the monuments, as they're called.
01:18:57You've gone through this gate.
01:18:58You've come to a clearing.
01:18:59There's this huge obelisk.
01:19:03Then the dive master will have you turn to the right, and the current begins to pick
01:19:08up.
01:19:10The current literally blows you around the side of these monuments.
01:19:15Around this corner, that's when you start seeing the terraces.
01:19:20They're 90 degree terraces, and they terrace up from the bottom up to about 15 feet under
01:19:26the surface of the water.
01:19:29They're stair-stepped, plateau-like, almost looking like Mayan ruins.
01:19:35It's dramatic.
01:19:36They're huge.
01:19:37It's wide open.
01:19:39By the way, you're probably going about two and a half to three knots in this uncontrolled
01:19:42push of current.
01:19:44You're swimming around to get out of the current, and then you just want to hang on to something
01:19:47to catch your breath.
01:19:49Then you gently work your way across these flat spaces, flat with a 90 degree wall, and
01:19:56it terraces up.
01:19:57You can choose to go down, or you can choose to go up.
01:20:00This is about 35 to 40 minutes into the dive.
01:20:05You've gone across the terraces.
01:20:07You've seen the things that are, to me, obviously man-made.
01:20:11I just can't see nature carving at right angles repeatedly like this.
01:20:16But then at the end of this, in a clearing, very wide open space, but it's at the very
01:20:24end, in about 45 to 50 feet of water, sets a round granite ball, 15 feet in diameter,
01:20:3310 feet high, and this round granite ball sets on a square pedestal on a flat rock.
01:20:42The round ball is obviously not contiguous to the square platform.
01:20:49That was impressive to me.
01:20:50I would say that after photographing that for a morning, I pretty much went with the
01:20:55man-made theory.
01:20:57One of the things that always stood out to me was the lack of rubble.
01:21:03If it had been carved out by nature, I would have expected to see on these terraces debris.
01:21:12Because it's coming up from about 90 feet of water, and it terraces up, and again, much
01:21:17like a Mayan ruin, but each terrace is clean.
01:21:21Each terrace has clean 90 degree angles as it comes up, and there's no rubble at the
01:21:25bottom, and there's no rubble on any of these flat terraces.
01:21:29At the top, in about 20 to, I'd say, 15 feet of water, at the very top of what is referred
01:21:36to as the monuments, there's a small staircase carved out of little, small stairs.
01:21:43Maybe the risers are like six to eight inches each, and it goes up in a little hallway,
01:21:49and these stairs are at the end of this hallway.
01:21:52There's no overhead in these stairs, because now you're at the top of the monument.
01:21:56What's also interesting is at the top of the monument, when you raise up and look down
01:22:00at it, there are these holes that have been carved into the rock in almost perfect circles,
01:22:06about the size of a 55-gallon drum, in a line.
01:22:11It's hypothesized that that is where they would put poles for tents or for structures,
01:22:16wooden poles.
01:22:17It was very interesting to see that, and again, that's when I started leaning more
01:22:21towards the not-nature theory, but more of the man-made.
01:22:28I did see structures above the water that are on the land, and these structures were
01:22:36in vicinity of Iseiki Point, but closest to where the underwater face is.
01:22:44It's on the north side of the island, and these rise up about 70 feet above the water's
01:22:49edge, and they are carved almost identical to the monuments at Iseiki Point.
01:22:56It really makes you feel, if you've dove Iseiki Point, and then you walk to these monuments,
01:23:02you feel like you're underwater again.
01:23:04If these underwater offshore objects were caused by natural causes, I would really be
01:23:12surprised.
01:23:13I'm not a professional geologist, I'm a professional photographer, but you can see the similarities
01:23:22between what's on land and what's underwater.
01:23:25Now, it's obviously been underwater for a long time, just by the depth, but they're
01:23:31carved the same way as it is on land, and conversely, what's on land is the same as
01:23:36what's underwater, and what's underwater is the same as what's on land.
01:23:40I would have to say that I just can't go with the nature theory.
01:23:45I would agree that this site was carved out by humans, and not a natural phenomenon, and
01:23:53I would agree with those people for these reasons.
01:23:57What's underwater is so similar to what's above land.
01:24:01They're in vicinity of one another.
01:24:04If the water had infiltrated because of the end of the Ice Age, and as I've read, and
01:24:12other people have told me and supported it with findings, is that the water has risen.
01:24:17I would certainly ascribe to the theory of the oceans rising, that caused people at a
01:24:24certain time and place to leave this site, these monuments, if you will, and possibly
01:24:31begin to work on new monuments that are in vicinity of Aseki Point.
01:24:35Now, there's one thing that Professor Masaki Kimura, who is a professor in residence at
01:24:42the University of Ryukyu on Okinawa, and he's done extensive published research on these
01:24:47monuments of Aseki Point.
01:24:49There's one thing that he also takes you to that I've photographed in another location
01:24:52of Okinawa that gives credence to this rising water theory.
01:24:58That is on the northern point, or Bolo Point, they call it.
01:25:02I'm sorry, it's not Bolo Point, it's called Heido Point on Okinawa.
01:25:06It's the northernmost point on Okinawa.
01:25:09Just around the corner from that, they've discovered, and I've photographed, underwater
01:25:15cave structures.
01:25:18What's interesting about these underwater cave structures is there's stalactites coming
01:25:22down, which means stalactites are only formed by fresh water above the surface of the water.
01:25:29These stalactites formed on land.
01:25:31These stalactites were above water for quite some time, and they're huge stalactites.
01:25:37Some of these stalactites are that big around, hanging down from the ceiling.
01:25:41It almost looks like a Christmas tree farm upside down.
01:25:45I've dove on these several, many times and photographed them.
01:25:50This is some 350 to 400 miles away from Yonaguni, and here we have evidence that the water table
01:25:56has risen, infiltrated caves, and there's stalactites in these caves.
01:26:04That really made me go over to the man-made side, and that these man-made structures were
01:26:12infiltrated by the rising waters of the oceans over time.
01:26:18One other thing to report to that, too, was that Kimura, in his report to a professional
01:26:23agency in Japan, reports that they actually found man-made tools in these caves on the
01:26:28main island of Okinawa, underwater.
01:26:32I find the credence to it.
01:26:34I find the credence to it, and it was very exciting to see these things as well.
01:26:37Professor Kimura shares with me his findings that he presented to a Japanese forensic society
01:26:45that studies these kinds of things.
01:26:47He shared his report with me while I was doing research for these articles.
01:26:52It seems that they hypothesized that the civilization that was living on Yonaguni at
01:26:58the time, some 10,000 years ago, could have built these monuments, and that as the water
01:27:05tables began to rise, that they had to shift from the monuments that I dove on in Aseki
01:27:11Point, and they had to shift because the monuments were infiltrated with water.
01:27:16They had to shift to another site on Yonaguni.
01:27:20Those are two sites that I photographed and I understand.
01:27:23Kimura thinks this shift came some 4,000 years ago, which makes sense to me.
01:27:29I could see that the monuments at Aseki Point closely resembled the same rock formations
01:27:35that are just around the corner.
01:27:38In between the Aseki Point monuments, there's been another find of recent years that I photographed,
01:27:43and that's where the face monument is.
01:27:47You've got the Aseki Point, this face monument, and much similar carving and man-made type
01:27:53things that I think are there, and then you have above land and well above water, very
01:27:59similar formations that look very much man-made.