"IPPs capacity payments dena chordengay tu wo bijli dena chordengay", Miftah Ismail

ARY NEWS

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Transcript

00:00On one hand, there is capacity payment.

00:02If a businessman wants to do business, he has to provide employment.

00:05If he provides employment, then the rest of the society will be dispersal of money, obviously.

00:10But now the businessman is complaining that 25% of the business is going out.

00:14If we do business here, then the electricity bill increases so much.

00:17Why does the electricity bill increase? Because we have to pay capacity payments.

00:20Why are there capacity payments? Because our leaders have not thought

00:23that in the coming times, if we have more electricity, then how will we pay capacity payments?

00:28We have made agreements in dollars.

00:30Now, please explain one more issue.

00:34All these IPPs or power plants have 22 government companies.

00:42They have a 48% share in the capacity surcharge.

00:47Can't we do anything in this? Any rescheduling? Please explain this.

00:51Thank you.

00:52If you give me half a minute, I will explain it in detail.

00:59The capacity payment that we talk about and the cost of electricity,

01:04which is the cost of electricity, is basically that if we lease a car,

01:08then we have to pay for the lease of the car and have to pay for the petrol.

01:12Now, it is obvious that if the leaser does not take money from us,

01:15then the car will become cheap and there will be an expense of petrol.

01:17But usually it does not happen that you take a car from someone and stop leasing it.

01:21When you stop giving IPPs or capacity payments to anyone,

01:24they will stop giving you electricity.

01:26And you have made these agreements and airtight agreements.

01:30Now, you come to the government companies.

01:32So, the government does not have its own money.

01:35The government companies also have 20-25% of the government's money.

01:38And the rest 75% of the money is loans that the government has taken from international banks.

01:43There is no electricity in Pakistan.

01:47There are generators, boilers, turbines, etc.

01:53So, you have imported them.

01:55You have taken a loan in dollars and a sovereign guarantee is given in front of it.

01:59Now, for example, Neelam Jhelum is a hydroelectric project,

02:04a run-of-the-river project, which started in the time of Musharraf.

02:08And then it was completed in the government of PMLN.

02:12I think Mr. Nawaz Sharif or Mr. Shahid Abbasi had opened it.

02:17Now, it is giving power of 18 cents.

02:19One of the most expensive powers in Pakistan.

02:21Because it kept getting delayed, expensive, delayed, expensive.

02:24But all this money was invested by the construction company that you took a loan from.

02:30Now, you do not return the loan. This is not possible.

02:32So, the government of Pakistan has built four plants in Bikki, Baloki, Haveli, Badur Shah and Timru-Tirmu.

02:40There are three G plants and one is of Siemens.

02:43Two are of the government of Punjab and two are of the government of Pakistan.

02:46Now, you have taken this loan from the Chinese banks and other banks.

02:50Now, you have to give money to the government because you have to give money to the government.

02:54So, that's why they are part of the IPP.

02:56Right. So, there is nothing that we can do about it.

02:58They are as is and they will remain there.

03:00So, now…

03:01Sorry.

03:02Yes, Mr. Mimtaz.

03:03Now, the problem is that the businessmen are also saying that it has become impossible for us to do business with such expensive electricity.

03:08Twenty-five percent of our industry has gone out.

03:10Manufacturing has gone out.

03:12In Pakistan, business, especially manufacturing and production, is going out of control.

03:17We are talking about increasing exports.

03:19Here, exports are going down.

03:21Will there be a solution to this?

03:22Will there be a solution regarding this electricity?

03:25Look, sister.

03:27This is not such an easy problem.

03:29A lot of mistakes have been made.

03:31A lot of governments have not been able to make a lot of long-term decisions.

03:35They have made short-sighted decisions.

03:37We have used more electricity.

03:39We have installed power plants, which were not needed.

03:41In such a poor country, there should not have been zero load shedding.

03:44We have installed electricity houses according to the heat.

03:48Whereas, in half a year, the power plants shut down.

03:51But we have to pay their capacity payment.

03:53Because of this, electricity is expensive.

03:55We have not even made such policies that our demand curve becomes smooth.

03:59We are not able to sell so much electricity in winters.

04:02Nor have we allowed so much industry to be installed in Pakistan.

04:04There are a lot of other problems.

04:06But the demand is that the average cost, which NEPRA has approved, is Rs. 34.

04:13If you sell electricity for Rs. 34 and take all the bills, then the problem will end in Pakistan.

04:18The problem is that the poor people, more than half of our domestic consumers buy less than 200 units.

04:24More than half.

04:25More than 55%.

04:27Now, those who are buying less than 200 units, you are giving them Rs. 15.

04:30Those who are buying less than 100 units, you are giving them electricity for Rs. 4.

04:33But your demand is Rs. 34.

04:36This means that those who are buying more units, 300, 400, 500, 700 or even more than 700 units,

04:41this is an industry unit, this is a commercial unit,

04:43you are telling them to subsidize these poor people.

04:46The government itself is not doing it.

04:47So, their rate increases from Rs. 34 to Rs. 60, from Rs. 34 to Rs. 70, from Rs. 34 to Rs. 45, etc.

04:54So, the rate is Rs. 34 for electricity.

04:56But because the government has given cheap electricity to the poor people,

05:00then you are charging more from the rich people, shopkeepers and industry.

05:05So, this is one problem.

05:06Now, there is no fault of any IPP in this.

05:08There is no fault of any Chinese government.

05:10If you put more electricity, then there is no fault of any IPP.

05:13You wrote a rate for NEPRA.

05:15When Shahid Abbas was the Prime Minister and I was his Treasurer,

05:18we changed a policy that there will be no electricity at fixed NEPRA rate.

05:22You come and compete.

05:24Do bidding and whatever bidding is less.

05:26But that policy was also changed in the time of Imran Khan.

05:29And what we did earlier was also at a fixed rate.

05:32We think that if you do price discovery and bidding, then the rate will be reduced.

05:36So, we have put electricity at a little expensive rate.

05:38We have put electricity on a little wrong fuel.

05:40We have put a little more electricity.

05:42We have made all these mistakes.

05:44Neither China, nor IPPs, nor America, nor any other country has made these mistakes.

05:48These are the mistakes of mine and your nation.

05:51These are the mistakes of our nation that we are suffering.

05:53But today, tell me that there is electricity for Rs. 34.

05:56We waste 18% electricity in transmission and distribution losses.

06:01NEPRA says that it should be 12%.

06:03We do 18%.

06:04This goes to 6% in circular debt.

06:07But if we do 8% instead of 18%, which we do in IASCO,

06:12then 10% of your electricity will be saved.

06:1410% you are not able to collect bills from those people,

06:17to whom you are giving electricity.

06:19They are taking electricity, but you are not able to collect.

06:21This is not anyone's fault.

06:23The money that he is giving, he is getting it.

06:26You are giving electricity for Rs. 4 in Kashmir.

06:28You are not collecting electricity bills from the tribal areas.

06:30The tube wells in Balochistan,

06:35how many hundreds of billions of rupees did you not get from them?

06:38So, the people who are non-intellectuals,

06:41or give less money,

06:43or for any political reason,

06:45the money that you are giving, I am giving,

06:48the bill that he is paying, he is giving.

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