Outlook Talks | Chinki Sinha in conversation with Actor, Filmmaker & Playwright Rajat Kapoor - video Dailymotion

OutlookIndia

“You will burn and you will burn out; you will be healed and come back again.” - Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov  “Is there despair?”  “Yes, but also faith,”  Rajat Kapoor, actor and filmmaker and also, a man who is passionate about theatre, was reading The Brothers Karamazov on a flight when the idea came to him to adapt the book by the Russian writer Fyodor Dostoevsky into a play. The book was published in 1880. The play frees itself of the location and the time and yet, remains faithful to the emotions in it, he says.  There are too many plots in the book. Emotion, crime, erotic, social and ideological and Kapoor says it was a task to do it. But Kapoor is known for this kind of audacity. He has adapted several of Shakespeare’s plays and has even used gibberish in his adaptations which is unconventional.  He sticks to the themes. The rest is all his way of looking at a story.   The Brothers Karamazov’s adaptation is called Karamjale Brothers and will open to the public in August first week.   He talks about adapting the book into a play with Outlook.   Karamjale Brothers is set in Old Delhi, which is also where Kapoor hails from.   Follow us: Website: https://www.outlookindia.com/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Outlookindia Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/outlookindia/ X: https://twitter.com/Outlookindia Whatsapp: https://whatsapp.com/channel/0029VaNrF3v0AgWLA6OnJH0R Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@OutlookMagazine Dailymotion: https://www.dailymotion.com/outlookindia  #Novel #Play #Films #Actor #TheBrothersKaramazov #KaramjaleBrothers #Rajat Kapoor #VinayPathak #PrithviTheatre #Delhi #NewDelhi #Theatre #Dostoevsky #Novels #August

Transcript

00:00Hi, this is Chinky Sinha, welcome to Outlook Talks and we are with Rajat Kapoor.

00:29He doesn't need an introduction, but he is a filmmaker, playwright, actor.

00:33Why do people say he doesn't need an introduction and then start giving introduction?

00:36Either you or you don't. Make up your mind.

00:40He doesn't need an introduction, so I'm not going to give.

00:43Okay, so Rajat Ji, as I call you, you know, you have been working on this adaptation of brother Karamazov of Tostaveski,

00:53who has given us so much despair since childhood, I've been reading him.

00:57And I saw the poster at Prithvi Theatre, Karam Jale Brothers. Now, you should tell us a little bit about that

01:05because you know, Tostaveski is known to all of us as this despair giving person.

01:10Despair giving? I don't know. Yeah, for sure he is stressful.

01:16Yeah. And you know, it's very funny. I read The Idiot. Oh, you managed to?

01:2230 years back. And it was one of my favorite books. And of course Crime and Punishment, but I had never read Brothers Karamazov.

01:29Which I read last year. And I said, okay, this is what I'm going to do. But in all Crime and Punishment and The Idiot and Brothers Karamazov,

01:38how many times do you think they say, he says, he was suffering from brain fever, as if he was in a delirium.

01:47All his people are suffering from brain fever and in a delirium and running from this to that.

01:55And talking to themselves and generally going nuts. That's a big part of his world, of course.

02:04And yet there is, there is so much faith. There is. And there is a lot of this to and fro in the court rooms and things like that.

02:15But I'm not saying, overall as a vision of mankind, let's say. So, there is this suffering, immense suffering.

02:26And hope in spite of that. So, there is never, so that suffering is never.

02:35Absolute. Sorry? Absolute suffering. It's not an absolute suffering. There is always hope, there is always a way of overcoming that suffering through

02:44suffering. So, isne ek bahut acha hai, his, the priest or the starlets that he is working with in the monastery.

02:53He asked Alosha to go. So, he is going to the world. And before he come back to the monastery later.

03:00But now, you need to live in the world to suffer. And to be compassionate towards the suffering.

03:09And learn to find joy in suffering. That's his, that's his job, Alosha's job in the world.

03:19To find joy in the suffering. And then with all that, then come back, then he will be ready for the battle.

03:26The other thing you see, there is this one line, I think in this book, that they had their hamlet and we have our karamazors.

03:36We only have our. So, you have done the adaptation of Hamlet as well. And there is something to an adaptation which has been a long

03:44debate also like when you adapt a book into a film or a book into a play, there is, you also have done a lot of Shakespeare

03:52in terms of like adapting it to the current context like I have seen King Lear for instance.

03:58And Macbeth. –Yeah, and Macbeth. And they are all, you know, when you do them, when you perform them here, it's very different and it makes a…

04:06It should be. –You know, it collapses that time in the sense when he had written and then bring it to the current… –Sure, it should be.

04:12Exactly. –Otherwise what's the point of doing a play set somewhere else in another time? The fact that we are doing these plays or these books,

04:20adapting them into plays or films means that they have something of value for us, right? Why would I…

04:26So, how is it like a… How do you do it? Like how do you get this idea? How do you… Do you feel a sense of this thing?

04:32Can I… Like because when we do it sometimes like even to reveal… Am I going too far from this or am I betraying the…

04:40Correct. You are right. So, of course, it's a leap of faith. You hope that you will be true to the text in some way.

04:48Yeah. –So, what one is trying to do is to not get away from the essence of the thing. To find the essence of the thing first.

04:56That is the first job. To deep… To dive deep enough into it to really find what the text is about.

05:06And then to delve in that and to bring that to the best of your abilities. So, I am not interested when I am doing Shakespeare for example,

05:14I am not interested in the plot of the things. I am not interested that Fortinbras is coming from Norway to wage a war.

05:21So, we throw all that stuff out. What is not… The plot is not interesting for me anymore. It is something beyond that.

05:29Where we can get into the characters, into their dilemma and into the existential aspect of their suffering, you know.

05:39Because if you feel that Shakespeare is… That's his point of writing this play or this is why Dostoevsky has created these people.

05:48What is he looking for, you know, through this story? He is not looking for a story where father and son are in love with the same woman.

05:55That's not important. That's just a ploy to go somewhere else with it, you know. –Yeah. –So, that somewhere else becomes interesting.

06:03Yeah, and you try and you hope that in spite of going away from that time and that place and that language

06:15and to find this in your surroundings somehow, you still will not betray the very essence of the thing.

06:24And you will be able to… And also in another format. You are doing a play. It's not… –Yeah, it's not… –This was a book.

06:30So, when you are doing a play, anyway you are taking a leap, you know. And you are trying to find theatrical means of bringing it to life.

06:39Yeah, that's pretty much it. So, now this Karamuzo Brothers which is now Karam Jale Brothers. –Yeah. That's very interesting actually.

06:52We tried to set it in Delhi. The family is Karam Joods. And so, it's winter in Delhi and these are people that we could meet actually.

07:07Yeah. All of them. Even that crime and punishment guy actually. –Yeah. They are all around us. So, you know, nothing much has changed. –Not really.

07:15In terms of human psychology or emotional journey. We are the same people that we were 2000 years back more or less, you know.

07:22Surroundings have changed. –Yeah. –But you read Greek tragedy or you read text from there, we are the same. –It's the same.

07:29Like you suffer. That's why you go to literature all the time. –Exactly. –But also there is something very interesting which I find about your plays

07:36which I have been watching because you guys keep giving me free tickets to come. So, about how do you go about choosing?

07:42You know, like the way you have chosen even Shakespeare for instance and the particular plays. It's a very interesting selection.

07:49And the other one is how did you come to Dostoevsky? And again back to the same line, you know, they have their Hamlet and we only have our brother's Karamazov.

07:59I don't know how, it's something that attracts you like I said in that text and you think you want to deal with it at that time, you know.

08:09Hamlet though came because before that we had done C for clown and I had this bright idea that if clowns were to do a classical text like Hamlet, what would happen?

08:18So, we tried that. And Macbeth is all about greed and ambition. –Yeah. –And guilt that comes with it which is also very contemporary.

08:29Then I did As You Like It which is about the gender thing which is also very interesting in today's time.

08:37King Lear. –King Lear was for me a play about old age and love of your daughters and betrayal and loss of power. So, many things.

08:50Funny thing with King Lear for example, when we started Lear, I said, I am not interested in text at all. So, we sat down, Atul, Vinay and I, we started rehearsing.

09:01And we said, okay, what are the themes of the play? So, we started looking. Loss of power, blindness, betrayal, father and children, old age, delirium.

09:15So, like that. And every day we would improvise around that. And it's very funny that Vinay had two daughters, I have a daughter, Atul had a daughter.

09:24And we started talking about our daughters. And for example, when they were born and all that. And we started talking about our relationship with our fathers.

09:33And the play emerged out of that somehow. So, it was, it was really our experience. Shakespeare, King Lear through us, you know, really. –Yeah.

09:45Filtered through us and our lives and how we have lived. –So, there is also, the other question is about translations. So, for instance, Dostoevsky is in Russian.

09:54And Vinay was telling me the other day ki das translation padhe. Matlab alag-alag. –Correct. –Because a lot of people will, I mean, translation is also not just a mechanical thing.

10:04It's a very… –Creative. –Yes. And also your own experiences come in the way you look at a word for instance. And so, how did you find…

10:13We are doing it in Hindi. –Yeah, that's what. –So, we are translating it all over again. Again, we are not translating it, we can't.

10:20So, we, you know, my process has been to not write things. We rehearse. –Yeah. –And we play the situation.

10:30This is the situation. How would you react to it? And actors start reacting. They create their own text. They start talking.

10:37I pick up words from that. I add some of my own. And so, we write that text. So, again, it's not like sitting, usne ye bola tha. –Yeah. –Humko in chabda mein bolna aisa nahi hai.

10:46We are talking and creating it as we go along. And we arrive at it. –Yeah. –And then we have to be aware that

10:55A, it takes the story forward. The narrative has to continue. And it has to have the emotion intact.

11:05And try and be true to the character who is speaking these lines, you know.

11:14So, all of that. But it's not like a mechanical thing. It's not something that you… –Yeah. –So, for example, in this, there is a character

11:25who is the bastard child of Fyodor Karamazov. And he is a servant in the house. So, the actor who is playing it is brilliant.

11:35He is brilliant. –Yeah. –He is from Delhi. And he just finds these beauteous words, you know, which just make so much sense.

11:46And then it's the language that we speak. So, adaptation is every which way, you know. So, in the text he is saying, don't go to Moscow, go to

11:54Chermashniya. –Yeah. –So, we are saying, don't go to Bombay, go to Meerut. Why did he want me to go to Meerut?

12:00Sir, wo Meerut nearby hai na? That's what he is saying. He is just, you improvise and you arrive at something. –And you arrive at something.

12:09Also, the process of, let's say, when you decided to do this Dostoevsky. So, if you can tell us about your introduction to Dostoevsky when you started.

12:17It was in 1990, when Manikwal was making The Idiot as a film. And I had worked with Manikwal the year before that on Nazar.

12:26And next year he was going to start The Idiot. And I had worked initially on The Idiot and then I had to quit. But I read it that time and wow!

12:34Wow! –That was your first Dostoevsky book? –First Dostoevsky. And when our son was born, I wanted to call him Mishkin.

12:42And the bizarre thing is, Meena wanted to call him Alyosha. –Yeah? –Because I had not read Karamazov and she had not read The Idiot.

12:49Then of course, now I tell Vivaan that, our son, and I tell him that Mishkin was The Idiot.

12:58He said, why do you want me to call by that name of an idiot? He is not an idiot. He is a free soul. –Yeah. –He is a spiritual one.

13:09So, that was my introduction in 1990. I was also going to or shortlisted to play that role of Mishkin. –Okay.

13:18The only regret as an actor that I didn't play that role. –Do you not want to make a film now or a play now where you could play that role?

13:26No, no, no. It was that film with money that I wanted to do it. –Yeah? –Yeah. So, then I started, I thought I will do The Idiot as a play.

13:35And I started writing it in India. I didn't have this process then. I wrote it for about 3-4 months and then I gave up.

13:44But it was always very special that book for me. And you know, last 2-3 years I am thinking, okay, I don't want to do a play with clowns anymore.

13:53I want to do a play which is kind of a realism. What should I do? What should I do? Then I thought I will do Sara Aakash. –Yeah.

14:01Which is a book by Rajendra Yadav and I was excited. I got the rights for that. Then I started reading it. I said, no, it doesn't excite me now.

14:08Then last year on a flight, I started reading Kara Mojave. I said, this is it. This is it. –This is it? –Yeah.

14:18I read the first book was Poor Folk, you know, which in the edition that my grandfather had, a lot of these illustrations also in those days used to get.

14:27And then I read this Crime and Punishment, which was a little bit later. But I didn't understand much actually.

14:34I am like, what is this book? What is happening in this? Then I re-read it. And in fact, that led me to go to Kamatipura actually.

14:40Because I didn't understand that Sonia and this guy's thing. So, I mean, Russian literature actually, if you ask anyone in Bihar, Allahabad, those days,

14:48there were all these books, you know, like I still remember Chestnut Grey, you know, they had all these fairy tale books also from Russia.

14:54It was a, I want to do one story but hua nahi kabhi. But there was this influx. Even now if you go… –I remember reading as a child a book called

15:02Teen Mote Aadmi, Three Fat Men. Like a novel only with a hard cover they used to give for 20 rupees or whatever.

15:09And I remember that with illustrations. I remember the stories. –Yeah. And very beautiful illustrations. They are not expensive at all.

15:15They used to come to the book fairs to give. So, there was this huge, like whole world which was so unknown to us in the sense,

15:21there were these stoves where people would lie down uske upar. I was like yaha pe kaise stove ke upar koi sohega.

15:27And there was like this Siberia and mink fur and all this and we had no idea. So, that led us to imagine a lot which helped in terms of

15:37later on because that's where we went eventually. We didn't go to other jobs. So, I also wanted to ask you like how do you imagine?

15:45Like, you know, you are also imagining a whole world out of that world which existed at that point in time.

15:51And as a creative person then how do you kind of bring that to fit, like brother Karam is off to fit it in Delhi?

16:00It's, well, that is a process of adaptation. It's not, again, it's not that hard. You see similarities. And again, the world is not changed.

16:11And Russia 150 years back is not very different from India now. I mean, you can easily. There are of course things which have changed drastically

16:19like Katrina going to Mithya's house for money was such a scandal. Now it will not be such a scandal. What's the big deal?

16:27Yeah. Now nothing is a scandal actually. So, that kind of thing. To some extent things have changed but not by and large.

16:35We still find it very very relevant. And the whole thing about faith and we are not going that deep into it.

16:45We are not delving into it so much because Dostoevsky is too religious for me. He has very very strong faith and I don't.

16:57So, yeah, but we can't run away from that either. Because that's a big part of the book.

17:03Well, I think he went through also a lot of this trauma and turbulence.

17:08But you know there is nobody who writes like Dostoevsky. Nobody in the world. There is nobody who constructs a sentence like that.

17:14Forget the story and characters and suffering and existentialism. But just that the sentence itself leads you to fucking brain fever.

17:23Yeah. He creates in one sentence which goes on for you know two paragraphs. Sometimes on pages when you are reading Crime and Punishment

17:34you are feeling this brain fever when he goes and kills the landlady you know like why is he like what is going on.

17:40And he does it with the rhythm of his sentence. Exactly. He is a beautiful writer though. But then the thing is translation again.

17:47We only know from translation. And the other thing when you touch upon this faith aspect and I wanted to also talk about artistic freedom.

17:55Like how much freedom do you think we have now vis-a-vis when you started out.

18:02You know because we also have that. I mean you keep navigating on an everyday basis, right?

18:08You test this. Then you test this. Then you figure out a way. And then you either become more creative or you become complete loser because you just can't.

18:16But in terms of staging plays and things they have always been very dangerous kind of terrain.

18:22I don't know. I am sure they have. You know every time we talk about censorship and this that and how things are becoming worse

18:34which I suppose they are. And I keep coming up with this idea of Iranian cinema you know. Why is that so good?

18:44In spite of. All the censorship. Nothing is allowed. Nothing is allowed. And still they make great films.

18:51It's bizarre. And you know I met an Iranian filmmaker sometime back and I asked him how many films you make in a year.

18:57He said 14. 14 films. And we make 14,000 films a year. And we make crap.

19:03And then we say that we can't show kiss. Come on man. Are we making bad films because there is censorship on us?

19:09But you are showing so many kiss right now. You know what I am saying. For years we were crying that this can't happen.

19:15That's why we are making bad films. What can we do? We have to show Gulab like this.

19:19Or whatever reason or political censorship or anything. But you are not making bad films because of that.

19:25You are making bad films because there is nothing better you know. So why do you think we are making such bad.

19:30There is too much. Because nobody cares. Nobody cares. Nobody is interested. Why do we write such bad books.

19:36Forget films. Why aren't we doing better theatre? Country of 1.4 billion.

19:41You are telling me there are 6 people who do theatre that you want to watch. In the country of 1.6 billion.

19:47Come on. Give me a break. So what happened to theatre? You guys are very passionate about it. I know that you guys keep doing it.

19:53And we come to Prithvi then we feel like okay people are still watching. People are watching theatre. That has become better.

20:00There are more people watching theatre now than there were earlier. For sure.

20:05Because people I think more disposable income at least in big cities. People want to go out.

20:10People want you know some kind of. Forget theatre. Stand-up comedy you know which was non-existent 10-15 years back.

20:17And it sometimes surprises me that people want to spend 1500 rupees to go and watch somebody tell jokes.

20:24Because you can't joke yourself. People have money for that and people have a desire to go out and be entertained.

20:33So audience for theatre is great. But the work I don't know. And why do you think that has happened? No idea.

20:42I think we are very easily satisfied with our mediocrity. I think by and large as a country.

20:49Anybody does something little and they say oh great. Breakthrough and amazing and genius.

20:58Yeah, yeah, yeah. 5 stars, 4 stars. Please. For mediocre bloody shit. You know. And then the creator is happy.

21:05That oh great. You are doing so well. And that's it. So you stop yourself. People don't push themselves.

21:13And I find it bizarre. Not in art maybe. In art our artists are pushing themselves.

21:21Maybe not in class. Also that might be the other reason. Because a lot of our good rigorous people and disciplined people go into classical arts I suppose.

21:31Yeah. So that's where the serious ones go and spend their time and talent.

21:37And another I wanted to ask about story. Like storytelling for instance. What kind of stories generally people are telling?

21:44Like you have done films as well. And you do very interesting kind of films where you touch upon a lot of complex situations.

21:52Like Aankho Dekhi for instance. What has happened to storytelling in terms of like you know you are there and you are also doing theatre.

22:02You are also doing films. So writing, acting. Any changes that you have noticed? Like what?

22:07I mean I feel that there is a certain insistence on this gang type situation now. You know like this Gangs of Wasseypur ke baat hai.

22:15That is so fad. That kind of thing comes and goes. This won't last. Kuch aur interest ho jata hai audience ka.

22:23Toh sab uss tarah ki cheez banane lagte hain. Woh toh bhed chaal hai. Phir koi ek aur hit ho jayega toh sab uss tarah ki cheez banane lagte hain.

22:28Yeah. But we thought that with OTT things will get much much better. That has not happened. OTTs have.

22:34Yeah. Because now you watch OTT and it's. No they have really I think at least at this moment.

22:41They have not been kind to independent kind of cinema or innovative cinema at all.

22:48They are doing their own thing. Well everybody is in to make money I suppose.

22:54And so they have their own way to make money. But there is also that whole thing na ki like when I was in journalism school one professor told me that

23:01you know you feed people with this kind of you know crab. So you know it's like chocolate.

23:08Toh chocolate hi mangega toh chocolate dete ro health ke liye thekh nahi. Sometimes you have to be cautious.

23:13Yeah.

23:19Yeah.

23:23Haan. Haan.

23:27Toh aap kya obstacles?

23:34Haan. I know.

23:43So that has happened. And I suppose then you. Is there like a way out? Then you get what you deserve.

23:51Films or government. You know you get what you deserve. This is what you chose. Live with it.

23:59Yeah but you can't live all the way. You know you have to. Because you know you are making it right.

24:04But is it a struggle like to do it? It's a struggle to find an audience and it's a struggle to find money to make a next film.

24:10Does it get disappointing at times? It gets disheartening. Yeah. For about two weeks.

24:15After every release. Then I will screw it. Then you get more ready to do your next thing.

24:21I am actually chinky. I am only interested in making my next film. Yeah. I am not.

24:25Pichla picture release hua toh bahut achi baat hai. Logon ne dekha toh bahut achi baat hai.

24:30Nahi dekha toh bhi. Because I know it's made. It's out in the universe. You have seen RKRK. Yeah.

24:3550 other people have seen it. I am okay. Yeah. I can live with that. As long as I get to make my next film.

24:41That's the important thing for me. But does it ever get to the point where you kind of. I don't know how you.

24:48Because it gets disheartening. Like let's say we keep doing these issues right. And if we don't.

24:54You know it's just sometimes you feel like. Are you going to give up? Chhodo yaar. Are you going to give up?

24:59Of course you feel. I have said so many times. I was going to study. Then I stopped. Correct.

25:04Everyday I feel. You think. Everyday you feel. But you don't give up na. That's what I am saying.

25:08May be soli soli I am giving up only. What do you do? Idhar, udhar. You know there is so much pressure.

25:14But also see our work is little bit different in the sense that we are in Delhi. Bombay when I come.

25:20I feel that there is so much like competition, ambition, yeh, woh. You know.

25:25You are with your. I mean at least I am lucky in that sense. I have friends.

25:29Yeah. How do you manage to live in this whole glitter world and still be. There is no glitter. For me where is the glitter?

25:35We come here and we say come. Aap logon hai light lagaya toh glitter hai. Nahi toh kahan hai glitter.

25:39Nahi. Bombay mein nahi hai. Like in the film world itself. It's just shiny, glamour. I am not in the film world like that yaar.

25:44So, you know we are not. We are. In your daily life you are not saying glitter glitter na.

25:49In your daily life you are with your family, you are with your friends. And luckily you know.

25:54I will tell you something. I spoke to Kumar few couple of months back before he died.

25:59Before he died. And he was not sounding good. He was quite low at that time.

26:06The only time I have heard him low on the phone. And he was in Calcutta and he said I don't want to be here.

26:13I want to be in Bombay. And he says you know Raja there is nobody to talk to.

26:20Who do you talk to now? Also he was 82 and I think Vivaan Sundaram passed away who is a dear friend.

26:27That also affected Kumar a lot. And then he was like there is nobody to talk to. Who do you talk to?

26:33And I was telling him Kumar you know that way. I am lucky because I do theatre.

26:38And there is this theatre community or at least this group of friends that we meet regularly.

26:45And we are able to create together. And we are able to travel together. So, even when you are not making a film at least this.

26:52At least you are not isolated in terms of. But Bombay also feels, I mean I am sure it's the same case with Delhi.

26:58Because this isolation is also kind of becoming huge. And this whole culture also is making us.

27:05That's why. Friendship and more than friendship people you work with. People with the same ideology, same belief system.

27:13I don't know. Don't you get like trust issues with people? What issues? You know trust issues with people.

27:18Oga. Eka chala jayega. Toothra koi aajega. But you know that community remains.

27:22No you are the. It's very nice because I have been to some of the gatherings. People are the same.

27:27The same level of excitement. That community is important you know I feel. Yeah. For everyone.

27:31And specially for us and in bad times the community keeps your faith alive, keeps you alive,

27:37keeps hopes alive. In spite of Dostoevsky. No, I like Dostoevsky. It's quite fun also sometimes by the way.

27:46Just to even Google his quotes and just to see okay what was he thinking at that point in time.

27:51And maybe if he lived with that kind of trauma then maybe we can also live through this kind of trauma.

27:56And that time he didn't even have a therapist at least. I mean I have access to a therapist.

28:02Writing. Writing must have been his therapy no? Yeah probably yeah. I think writing a lot of people also recommend this journaling and all that.

28:09So I don't know maybe that was journaling for him. Because does it make creative people like you let's say

28:14who are thinking very alternatively you know. Is it difficult because you know then you kind of

28:20you can't blend in. You can't like go away. You still have to. Who would have thought of brother Karamazov in today's time?

28:29Like that. But we will see. I think the play. I think these things have value you know.

28:37It's very hard book to read. Very. Very hard book to read. But I don't think it will be a very hard play to watch.

28:42Yeah. I think at least we are trying to you know like I said bring the essence of it within 90 minutes, 100 minutes.

28:49That itself is hard to take a bloody 1200 page book. How do you do that actually this compression?

28:55Like I said earlier that you try and stick to the essence and take out the frills which may have been important for him

29:03or to Shakespeare about the war and plot. I am not interested in that. So I am going attacking the meat of the situation.

29:12And the other thing, one of my last two questions is that see like if we were to look at Rajat Kapoor.

29:18You do a lot of things. You are doing film, you are doing a play, you are also reading, you are writing.

29:22You are also making a, I think a ghost film. Remember? Horrific. I want to. Yeah. Yeah. I mean like this.

29:29I don't know if it will have zombies but then. There is. But we try to write it. I can't crack it yet.

29:34You can't because in zombies like you don't have the concept of undead in India. No.

29:39Yeha aatma hai. I don't know. I have been watching so many zombie films. That's why I am like little bit.

29:45Correct. Correct. Correct. But how do you like manage to, you know, because it's very difficult for us.

29:52Like we are now doing this God men, God women, right? Completely immersed in it. Now we can't get out of it.

29:58We go to satsang and all. How do you manage to get away, detach? Do you detach? Do you not detach?

30:03How do you keep sane? Do you like, how, what do you do? I don't, this also I don't quite understand.

30:08How, you are doing a, for example, now we are doing Karamu. So, when I am completely into Dostoevsky

30:16and reading that book every day, which is also stressful by the way. Yeah. To keep dipping into that madness.

30:23But once the play is ready then the play exists outside of you, you know. You went through that journey and it happened.

30:33But then it becomes an entity on its own. Yeah. And then you are away from it. Then you are not.

30:39Then if you are juggling two, three things, like let's say a film which is a different medium, writing a different medium.

30:44But it's not everything happening at the same time, right? So, right now I am not doing anything else except the play.

30:49Once the play opens, maybe I will take two months off and write a new script. When I am making a film, I am only making that.

30:56Oh, so you do that. Yeah, it's not like I am doing everything on the same day.

30:59Oh, we thought like us, you know, everything on the same day. Yeh bhi karlo, yeh karlo, sab kuch karlo ek dir mein.

31:05No, another thing is, what is your dream? In the sense, in terms of what you do.

31:12I want to be making films when I am 95. That is my dream. Yeah. Another 30-35 years I want to be still making films at the age of 95.

31:21I don't want to. That is my dream. I want to be directing in a director's chair at the age of 95.

31:28If I can achieve that, I will give you a party on my 96th birthday.

31:32And one favourite line from Brother Karamazov, if you have anything.

31:37Yeh bhagwan. Maybe one or two or anything that, any scene that kind of moved you, which was?

31:43Arre yaar. On the flight itself. First time I am reading it.

31:51And there is a scene where Zosima, the star, people are coming to see him.

31:57And there is a woman who is crying and she has her hands on her cheeks and she is moving her face like that.

32:02And she is saying, my child, my three-year-old child, he died.

32:09I am moved just telling you this and I want him back. I won't even touch him.

32:14Just let me see him play in the yard once again.

32:19And Zosima tells her that he is happy and he is playing in the God's garden right now.

32:27Don't cry. And she said, my husband also said this and I don't want to hear this.

32:31I have left my husband. I don't want to hear this. I want him back.

32:36And he says that, go back to your husband.

32:40Because when a child sees from there that you have left him, how bad will he feel?

32:45But not this, but when the woman is crying about the lost baby, oh my God, it's so fucking moving.

32:51So, we have been now rehearsing for 35 days. For the first 15-20 days I was traumatized because I didn't know how the play will end.

33:01Where does it end? Does it end with a trial? What happens in the end?

33:04Because the book goes on and on. So, I didn't know how it will end.

33:09And that was quite traumatic for me. And then we thought, this scene in the beginning

33:17where Zosima tells her something but we don't hear it in the beginning.

33:21Now we will bring it back to the end. And then Zosima tells, that became the thing.

33:27Zosima says, bohot dukh hai maa.

33:33What?

33:35Bohot dukh hai.

33:36Bohot dukh hai.

33:37Sab samayit le apne andar.

33:39How do you do that? That's exactly what we asked yesterday.

33:42I said, woh toh hai. How?

33:45You have to contain it. Like he tells earlier, you should find joy in your suffering.

33:49Yeah. Do you find the joy?

33:52Every day. Every minute.

33:56So, I think we should also find joy like this. And I hope people watch Brothers Karamazov.

34:05Karam Jale Brothers.

34:07Because I could never finish that book actually. I tried. It's so thick.

34:11Good. So, now you know what the book is about.

34:13Exactly. Crime and Punishment is enough for me after the trauma.

34:18You know, actually somebody wrote to me an email saying that after reading this book, my innocence is killed.

34:25Like it's been murdered. I didn't know what to say. I said, good for you or whatever. I really feel sorry.

34:32Good for you or sorry for you.

34:34And sorry also because I don't know how to because it's good also.

34:36That kind of innocence shouldn't exist also. It's a great book actually.

34:41Because this whole thing and it helps you understand many other things like serial killers for instance.

34:47But yeah, thank you so much for talking to us and we will be there to watch your play.

34:53And cheer as cheerleaders.

34:56Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Always such a pleasure to talk to you Chinky.

34:59On and off camera.

35:01Always.

Outlook Talks | Chinki Sinha in conversation with Actor, Filmmaker & Playwright Rajat Kapoor

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