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00:00:00Good evening, everyone, and thank you for being here with us. Welcome back to our fourth
00:00:07season of Dog Talks with Dr. Forrest Tennant and Friends. This is an exciting time to be
00:00:13here. We're so thankful all of you showed up. And before we get started, I want you
00:00:19all to have something in your hands. It's worth about $10 billion. This is Dr. Tennant's
00:00:26newest book, The Ehlers-Danlos Arachnoiditis Connection. It's the very best book he's ever
00:00:33written, in my opinion, my humble opinion. So with that, I will give the mic over to
00:00:38Dr. Tennant. Please do. It's all yours, Doc. Thank you so much.
00:00:42Well, thank you. And a real big thank you, Jamie. If it weren't for you, we wouldn't
00:00:49be here tonight. All of us know that. You started this show. You've now kept it going.
00:00:58Let's face it, we had some detractors who hasn't liked. I'm not sure whether they, I
00:01:06hope they just don't like me. I'm afraid that they may not like you too. But whoever they
00:01:12don't like or whatever our message is, we're going to keep it going. I know Dr. Ibsen's
00:01:20here, Rhonda's here, my partners. And we have a guiding light, if you will. And that is,
00:01:31we believe that people should live in this world without suffering. Suffering goes along
00:01:37with humanity to a great extent, both mental, physical, and emotional. But physical suffering,
00:01:44we can do something about. And we're going to continue to do that despite any detractors
00:01:50that we may have out there. This absence has made me realize something. First off,
00:01:58I didn't realize how many people we were touching. The outpouring has been amazing.
00:02:05The, and let me tell you the thing that has struck me the most about our show, who you are,
00:02:13and what we're doing. And that is, being a physician, I'm very well aware that education
00:02:22for physicians who have graduated has almost evaporated in this country. The government bans
00:02:29pharmaceutical companies from putting on education. The hospitals don't do it anymore.
00:02:35In other words, I've heard some of the greatest things I've heard from in the last two or three
00:02:41weeks have been from physicians, because a lot of you are taking them education that they're
00:02:46happy to get. And if we don't keep the show going, there is none. And I think that's a little sad.
00:02:54And, and what, and also what's made me realize in spades, and that is those people who have
00:03:04mild forms of chronic pain are looked after too much. Too many ads, too much fraud, too many
00:03:13stories, too many deceptions. But who's left out? Practically everybody watching this show,
00:03:19the severe chronic pain patient. You're the ones that have been left out. The doctors who try to
00:03:26treat you are looked down upon for the most part. And that's changing a little bit, thank goodness.
00:03:34So we've seen a lot of things in the last few weeks. And whatever it takes,
00:03:40Noah and Jamie and some of you, we're going to keep going regardless. To get started,
00:03:45or restarted, if you will, I've jotted a few notes down on what stimulated me to do this show
00:03:53in the first place. And then I'm going to call on Rhonda Posey and Dr. Ibsen to say a few words
00:03:59about being back, if you will. First off, I wanted to start this show because quietly behind the
00:04:07scenes, actually in hardcore medical science, among a lot of great researchers, we've learned
00:04:13a lot of things, little things that have added up to where we can at least help most people with
00:04:20severe chronic pain get some relief, some quality of life. In other words, they've been real small
00:04:28little steps, but we're getting somewhere. And we want to continue to build on it. Frankly,
00:04:33this show has been an inspiration to me to keep working. And so I'm grateful for all of that,
00:04:38because I recognize the names out here. And I do want you to know that you've had an impact on me
00:04:45and all positive about that. If it wasn't for you, I'd have quit a long time ago. Anyway, I want to
00:04:50say a half a dozen things about kind of overall advances. We've talked a lot about some of these
00:04:56things in the past shows, but let me just cover a half a dozen things that we've talked a little
00:05:03about before, but where we're going to focus on this show. Now, one thing might surprise you.
00:05:08So we've called severe chronic pain a lot of names over the centuries. They called it persistent pain
00:05:13in the 17th century. They've called it high impact pain. They've called it a lot of things.
00:05:19We've kind of adopted the name intractable pain in recent years in this country. But there's a
00:05:25part of that that I want to emphasize for a moment. It's so simple, I guess we just missed it.
00:05:33And that is, do you have constant 24-7 pain or do you have pain that comes and goes
00:05:40or is somewhat intermittent? Let me repeat that. Constant 24-7 except when you're asleep
00:05:47or does it kind of come and go? Now, if it's constant, what you've done is automatically
00:05:55put yourself, said you've diagnosed one of three situations in the human body that has given you
00:06:04pain that doesn't go away. Now, one of those is that you have what they call, like to call
00:06:10centralization these days, and it's a good term. What it means is that in the central nervous
00:06:15system, meaning the brain and the spinal cord, you have knocked out, you have, you know, dismembered
00:06:23if you will, or rendered dysfunctional some of your neurotransmitter receptor systems. And so,
00:06:30it won't shut your pain down. Now, incidentally, this is all documented even on MRIs. I see MRIs
00:06:36all the time with the little fibrous areas that have been knocked out. And so, when that pain
00:06:44doesn't go away, that means that you may have centralized it by wiping out some of your nerves
00:06:51in the central nervous system. Now, tangential to this, the second thing
00:06:58you may have if your pain doesn't ever go away is what we now call small fiber neuropathy.
00:07:04Now, in the past, we kind of always thought neuropathy meant that you had some kind of
00:07:10infiltrate, some kind of coding, some kind of damage. We now know that a great deal of small
00:07:18fiber neuropathy is a total absence of nerve fibers, and usually right under the skin or right
00:07:24in the joint. And we've discussed a couple of terrible problems with small fiber neuropathy.
00:07:31I can't think of anything much worse than pudendal neuropathy, for example.
00:07:36It also turns out that those people who've got to have a hip transplant or a knee transplant,
00:07:41that in the joints, some of those nerves have disappeared. And therefore, when you get bone
00:07:46on bone, you've got nerves that may not exist that are rubbing there on each other. Now,
00:07:53so what causes the pain? It turns out the body is a battery, a great big huge battery generating
00:08:02all kinds of electricity. And it's kind of nice to refer to it as bioelectricity,
00:08:07because it's a little different in some parts of the body than real electricity. But it's
00:08:11electricity nevertheless. It's got an electrical discharge of a negative, a positive. And at any
00:08:18rate, if that, if those small nerve fibers can't take that electricity on out through the skin,
00:08:24you're going to hurt. You're backing up electricity, and it hurts. Okay, it hurts.
00:08:31Now, the third thing that you might have if you have constant pain is an entrapment, meaning
00:08:38something has packed around the nerves. Maybe you started off with a tear. Maybe you started
00:08:43off with too much cholesterol in diabetics, for example. Maybe you had a crush injury.
00:08:51But something has entrapped the nerves, so the electricity can't pass. Now, in adhesive
00:08:57arachnoiditis, we have a real problem, because it's an entrapment disease. It backs up the
00:09:03electricity inside the spinal cord. That's why it's one of the reasons why it's such a terrible
00:09:08condition. So, constant pain, we want everybody to think in terms of, is that what you have?
00:09:18Incidentally, have we lost everybody? You're still going. Oh, good. Okay. I had a little glitch in
00:09:25mind. Okay. Now, the second big thing that we've learned, and you mentioned it in the book,
00:09:33we never used to take inheritable or genetic collagen disorders very serious.
00:09:39Okay. Ehlers-Danlos syndrome was always thought to be sort of like the rubber man where you
00:09:44could stretch your skin, or you could disjoint your joints. But it's far more than that. It's
00:09:49a deficiency in collagen. Okay. I'm going to ask Rhonda Posey to say a few words about it,
00:09:57because she has really pioneered in what you do about this. At any rate, collagen
00:10:05is a protein made up of a couple of amino acids, and it holds the tissues together.
00:10:11Now, they have liked to call Ehlers-Danlos syndrome and Marfan syndrome and any of the
00:10:16variants now called hypermobile spectrum disorder as connective tissue diseases. Well,
00:10:22I don't like that term. And the reason I don't like that term, the poor connective tissue
00:10:28underneath is poor because it doesn't have any collagen. So, the basics is really collagen
00:10:34deficiency that affects the connective tissue disease. So, collagen deficiency is something
00:10:40that everybody needs to know. And it turns out that a lot of people are born with either with
00:10:45a mild collagen deficiency that doesn't even show up in their disease state until they're in
00:10:51their 50s or 60s. So, just because you made it to 50 or 60 or 70 doesn't mean you don't have a
00:10:58collagen deficiency that may go back to your date of your birth. And so, collagen deficiency is very,
00:11:04very important. And now that we know that, I can say I've recently upgraded my nutritional
00:11:13recommendations. And we're going to talk a little bit more about the collagen in just a minute.
00:11:18But finding that collagen deficiency, both quantitative or qualitative,
00:11:23is terribly important when it comes to pain. Because when those collagen fibers either don't
00:11:28exist or are weakened or not strong enough, whatever, you're going to have viruses invade,
00:11:36bacteria invade, autoimmunity can take a bigger hold. You're going to have some difficulties.
00:11:43And you need to know you've got that collagen deficiency and do something more about it,
00:11:48which I'm going to say a couple more words about peptides in a minute. So, another thing.
00:11:55We've wondered for years about adhesive arachnoiditis. How do you get adhesive arachnoiditis?
00:12:03And people thought that it was the dyes of the old days, the myodols, and that certainly would do it.
00:12:11And then we thought about too many epidurals. Yeah, that'll do it.
00:12:15But then we started seeing people who got electrocuted, people who had accidents. A lot
00:12:21of people with EDS got it. A lot of people who had scoliosis got it. We didn't really
00:12:29understand all of this. There didn't seem to be any uniformity. Now, when I talk about adhesive
00:12:34arachnoiditis, and that, of course, is my biggest interest, because when you get to that stage,
00:12:41a lot of bad things have had to happen. You don't just stand around and get adhesive
00:12:45arachnoiditis. You've got to start off with probably an inheritable problem,
00:12:49and you've got to have what we call risk factors. Okay? Now, in the field of pain medicine,
00:12:56the concept of a risk factor is foreign. It's new. What does that mean? It means you've got
00:13:03something that's happened to you or you were born with that puts you at high risk. And frankly,
00:13:12we want a lot of people to know that. For example, every family who's got EDS, I want their
00:13:17children to be in a prevention program so they don't develop AA when they're 50 years of age.
00:13:22Okay? So, we know that's a risk factor. You're born with EDS or a collagen deficiency. You've
00:13:29got a risk factor. You've had a terrible auto accident. Okay? You got rear-ended. You got
00:13:36T-bone. Whatever. Let's say you were in a domestic violence problem. You were in the
00:13:42military. You got shot. You got a roadside bomb on your case. Whatever. You got trauma.
00:13:50You have a stroke. You've now got a risk factor for adhesive arachnoiditis, believe it or not.
00:13:58Even though that trauma occurred in your head or on your foot or on your shoulder,
00:14:03you have a risk factor. You got scoliosis. You're born with a genetic problem like ankylosing
00:14:09spondylitis. That's a risk factor. Okay? You caught infectious mononucleosis or you had meningitis
00:14:15when you were a kid. That's a risk factor. So, we now are going to be looking at the concept
00:14:22of risk factors, frankly, to keep people. Let me put it right where you'll understand it. So,
00:14:28you don't have to watch this show when you get older. Okay? Maybe we can prevent you having to
00:14:34be here. Okay? So, if you got to be here, I'm happy about it in one way, but I'm unhappy you're
00:14:40here. I mean, it's not good to be watching my show, quite frankly. All right? So, we go on.
00:14:46So, what happens to you if you have a risk factor? Well, it looks like you get an intermediate
00:14:51problem, and that's where we now think the Epstein-Barr virus is the main virus, but there's
00:14:58some others. Everybody that we've tested that has a high Epstein-Barr antibodies also has
00:15:05cytomegalis, herpes 6, has Lyme, maybe herpes 1 or 2, mycoplasma has been a big one,
00:15:13some varicella. In other words, the body has about 200 parasites. Now, it's a little tough
00:15:19for us humans to understand that we have that many germs naturally floating around our body.
00:15:26Now, most of them are in our intestine, but some are in our saliva, some are in our lymphocytes,
00:15:31some are in our tissues, and they live happily ever after and don't bother us
00:15:36until you have a risk factor. Okay? You get that trauma, that virus can reactivate.
00:15:45And when it does that, we're not quite sure how it does it, but Epstein-Barr, in particular,
00:15:51seems to interact with bad collagen, seems to enter the lymphocytes and go into the
00:15:58central nervous system and give you that centralized constant pain. Seems to knock
00:16:06out or do away with your small fibers. So, we now have a situation in which we recognize,
00:16:14and this is a brand new thing now for medicine and the public, and in some ways, it's an 800-pound
00:16:20gorilla. Nobody wants to talk about it. And that is, we've got a parasitic virus, or two or three,
00:16:28that under certain circumstances will reactivate and cause a form of autoimmunity. Now, the term
00:16:34autoimmunity is a little bit of a misnomer. It just means that it produces some mechanism
00:16:39to give you inflammation and wipe out your small nerves or your cauda equina or your discs,
00:16:47or it'll start off giving you fibromyalgia, then a tarlof cyst, and maybe a tethered cord,
00:16:52the spinal fluid leak, migraine headaches. So, all kinds of people out here are going around
00:16:57with rather severe pain, and every one of those can progress on to a spinal disease
00:17:03like cauda equina inflammatory disorder, multiple sclerosis, or easy arachnoiditis,
00:17:09and it's because you've got risk factors plus an activated or reactivated virus, mainly the
00:17:15Epstein-Barr. So, these are new concepts, and the nice thing about it is we're learning how to deal
00:17:20with it, okay? Remember, understanding brings action, and then we're there. We've got some
00:17:28action going. All right, we'll come back to it in a second. I want to conclude here by another thing.
00:17:36We've talked a long time about the three big components on treating, and we started off just
00:17:43talking about adhesive arachnoiditis, but if you've got constant pain, these three components apply to
00:17:50you, okay? And number one component, we've got to suppress inflammation and maybe autoimmunity.
00:17:59Inflammation's got to be suppressed because it's inflammation that wipes out your small fibers,
00:18:05gives you adhesions inside the spinal canal that then glues to your lining, which is the arachnoid.
00:18:12It's the thing that inflammation causes all of a sudden you to wake up one day and you've got a
00:18:18leak in your neck, or you've got a disc or two out in your neck, and there's nothing worse than
00:18:25cervical neck pain, or you may have given you a migraine, a funny kind of migraine. So, we do know
00:18:34that this is kind of the way it works. You've got to suppress inflammation, okay? That's step one,
00:18:42and there's nutritional ways, there's physical measures, there's medical, there's herbal. We've
00:18:47got a lot of ways now to do this. Now, the second thing we've got to do is we've got to do what I
00:18:52call the counterbalance, the counterbalance. Unfortunately, we have known, and it's well
00:19:01written since the 40s, that rheumatoid arthritis and systemic lupus are not curable diseases.
00:19:08Now, the public took a little hard, it was a hard sell back then. I wasn't around, but
00:19:14going clear back to those days, doctors always hated to tell somebody,
00:19:20your disease is not curable, but maybe we can control it, okay? And if you've got constant pain,
00:19:28that's about where we're at. I don't know whether any of these conditions are totally curable,
00:19:35but we're here to say we're going to develop better and better control measures so we
00:19:40stop all the terrible suffering, give people a quality of life, and have control. Now,
00:19:46we can do that. Now, what I'm getting at is when you develop this inflammatory process,
00:19:52and that's the trouble with rheumatoid arthritis or Sjogren's or Hashimoto's or lupus or scleroderma,
00:20:01we can't, we can control those diseases, but we can't stop them.
00:20:05T-cell arachnoiditis is the same thing. A lot of migraines also the same way. RSD is certainly
00:20:12about the same way. So, if you've got constant pain, here, we're just going to have to live
00:20:19with this, folks. We can control it. We can't cure it. Now, let me say one other thing about it. I am
00:20:25constantly bugged each day now. What's the best stem cell therapy? What's the best electromagnetic
00:20:32therapy? What's the best product? What about this surgery? Those are all one-time gimmicks,
00:20:40okay? Control is lifetime. Now, go get stem cells if you want. Go get FSM if you want.
00:20:48Go do those things if you want to try them, but remember, you didn't cure it. It might reduce
00:20:54your symptoms for a while, but you've got a disease that's not going to go away, okay?
00:21:00And so, you've got to go back to the basics. So, you're going to hear me harping on everybody I can
00:21:06get my hands on, doctor or patient, and let them know we can control it, get a lifetime,
00:21:14get you a three-component program. Now, you want to try some stem cells. You want to try something
00:21:20fancy. Be my guest. But gosh darn it, get on a program that's going to keep you alive for a while,
00:21:28okay? So, that's what we're going to preach here. Try all these one-time things. Everybody
00:21:35wants the cure, and they all have a place. But remember, control, not cure, is where we're at
00:21:43at this time. Now, when I said the counterbalance, that means, well, we've got maybe viruses and
00:21:51autoimmunity and inflammation tearing your system down. You've got to be rebuilding it,
00:21:57okay? You've got to be offense and defense, okay? When that offense is trying to give you
00:22:04inflammation and tear down all your small fibers, you've got to be rebuilding them to counterbalance
00:22:10it. Pain medicine is not a counterbalance. That's just to keep you comfortable so you can
00:22:15fight, okay? Now, what do I mean by regeneration? This is going to be a big part of our show. It has
00:22:21been already, and that's been, I think, our best accomplishment on this show. And we mean by
00:22:27regenerating these nerves. Now, you're going to read some things that says you can't regenerate
00:22:31nerves. You can't regrow brain tissue. You've got to just live with this damage. No, you don't.
00:22:38We have learned that to some extent, we can regrow almost all tissues in the body,
00:22:43maybe not totally, but you can regrow enough, okay? And this is why here on this very show,
00:22:51I believe we literally, for pain patients, pioneered the whole concept of peptides,
00:22:57all right? And there's about 60 peptides on the market, and three of them have emerged,
00:23:03and I hope all of you are at least taking a look at trying some of them, the KPV,
00:23:08the BPC-157, particularly if it's with thymus and beta, and then the ARA-290. Now, those three
00:23:15peptides, people are getting a lot of use out of them, okay? And I want everybody watching this
00:23:21show who's got constant pain to be talking to their doctors or nurse practitioners or their
00:23:25chiropractor on getting any of these peptides to give them a try, okay? Also, hormones. I'm going
00:23:32to talk a lot more about it because one of the things I've had time to do is develop what I think
00:23:36should be in the hormone panel. I've shrunk it down to only four hormones you need to be tested
00:23:41for, three in some cases, and you're going to need to know what your hormone levels are,
00:23:47and you're going to need to replenish those that are low, and I'm going to talk about which ones
00:23:51there are. Almost all of you need to be probably on one of the hormones. Why? Constant pain
00:24:00drives out certain neurotransmitters and hormones, and so you're going to have to replace them. Now,
00:24:06if you don't, you're going to just get worse and worse and worse, and your pain is going to get
00:24:09worse, worse, and worse. We're doing a study now called How to Stop the Deterioration of AA,
00:24:15and none of those people who are in the study are taking the hormones they should be taking,
00:24:19so we're going to cover some of that as we go along. And lastly, I regret very much,
00:24:28and if I could turn the clock back, for those of you out there who are spending most of your time
00:24:33in bed, you're already in a wheelchair, you're already on two or three opioids,
00:24:40I wish you weren't in that situation, but we're not going to forget you, okay? Dr. Ibsen I have
00:24:46with me because he is a pro at palliative care and believes in it, and so do I, and what we call
00:24:53maximal medical care, and we're going to try to do what we can, both on the political advocacy,
00:24:59human rights front, as well as on the medical front. So, palliative care, we're not throwing
00:25:04out the window, so those of you who are in bed, we still want to see you have some comfort and get
00:25:09some quality out of your life, and so we're going to keep pushing for that, and also I've recently
00:25:15written some guidelines, bringing back the old Brompton cocktail for what we call maximal medical
00:25:21treatment, so yeah, we want palliative care, we want some comfort out there, and if you've already
00:25:26sort of passed the control stage, okay, we haven't forgot you, you're with us, all right? And in some
00:25:34cases, you're going to have some ideas on what you wish you'd have done, or could have done, or maybe
00:25:38did do to help yourself, and maybe you can pass some of those tips along. Anyway, that's an overview
00:25:44of where we've been, and kind of some of the things we're going to do. Dr. Ibsen, are you out there,
00:25:51I don't see your name, and I know that you hide out a lot. Now, here I am, I'm right here.
00:26:00You're a pain doctor, you gotta hide out a lot of times, anyway. Well, I do wear a disguise often.
00:26:10I love it. Anyway, you've had a few weeks now to think about where we've been,
00:26:17what we've done. You and Susan are doing some great stuff.
00:26:22Give us an update on advocacy, and on rights, or even clinically, where do you think we're at?
00:26:31That's a big one. So, I've been doing my own self-care lately, in terms of recovering from
00:26:39a GI bleed that I had. I lost half my blood volume, and so I've been preoccupied with
00:26:44patient care and self-care. So, my main advocacy lately has been for the individual patients I've
00:26:53been seeing. I'd like to tell you a brief story about someone who was in our group,
00:27:01and I hadn't heard from her in a while. Her name is Serafina, and she's in Australia,
00:27:07and she found me through this podcast, the previous one, and
00:27:16just a worse story than we encounter in America.
00:27:25There's nothing I can do for her to advocate for her, other than recommending she talk to the
00:27:30United Nations Human Rights Council, but a similar thing, CRPS, and my conversation with
00:27:40her made me realize that we may be, I've been complaining that we've taken a first world,
00:27:49or the best pain management system in the world, and disassembled it in America,
00:27:55and I think I was wrong. I think other countries are further ahead in terms of going back to the
00:28:01Tarkages. So, what we're doing here is not being done elsewhere, and hopefully,
00:28:12those of us who are, and I'm one of them, who's complaining about access, and
00:28:18we're working on getting the supply chain back, so that people can actually get their prescriptions
00:28:27filled, and battling that, and doing prior authorizations, and we just have an uphill battle,
00:28:36but I can tell you, having talked to this lady in Australia for about 70 minutes the other day,
00:28:41she's in a world of hurt, and way worse off than we are. So, I guess it's a matter of perspective
00:28:51when you run into someone who's, I mean, I couldn't think it could be worse than what's
00:28:55going on in America these days, but this one patient is, you know, she's definitely fallen
00:29:01through the cracks, and I think part of our obligation, in terms of Hippocratic approaches,
00:29:07in terms of Hippocratic approaches, and doing no harm, is to get the right therapy for the right
00:29:13patient at the right time. I've just taken on a couple of patients who used to see you,
00:29:20Dr. Tennant, and it's remarkable that they're alive. They went without pain management
00:29:27for several years, and it's kind of a Lazarus moment for some patients when they
00:29:33go from bed to being able to garden, and that's the kind of thing we're looking for.
00:29:40You have to be able to get your pain relieved in order to engage in the other two aspects
00:29:45of the three-legged stool of managing these illnesses, including tissue regeneration and
00:29:53control of inflammation. So, that's my summary. Susan has been really busy communicating in the
00:30:01political realm. She's not available today to talk about that. She had a cataract out today,
00:30:08so we're going to be traveling. I'm going to go down there to help her with her other
00:30:14cataract surgery, and then we're going to be traveling in August, and then we'll be back to
00:30:18the political stuff in September. Can you give us a quick rundown on, I know that a lot of people
00:30:27are trying to remedy this problem that you had with the opioid injunction, which ended up limiting
00:30:34people's supplies. Are we making any headway on that front? Sadly, no. David Smith is a gentleman
00:30:44who's working on a project called the Pain Lawsuit. That can be found on Facebook, and he's basically
00:30:53working on coming up with something to ask for injunctive relief. I've been in conversation,
00:31:00and so has Susan, with Dr. Jeff Singer from the Cato Institute, and he was planning on a September
00:31:09podcast or meeting, and the Cato Institute is in Washington, D.C., and he just said,
00:31:17just got to wait till after the election. So, something in November, December,
00:31:22he's going to organize a confab, and we're going to hopefully publicize this more.
00:31:29Pat Irving and Monty Goddard, who you both know, Monty wrote a great couple articles about this,
00:31:35called The Two-Headed Monster with the DEA and the Opioid Settlement Injunction. The key thing
00:31:43about the Opioid Settlement Injunction is they basically had a judge take all of the cases of
00:31:51the lawsuits against the pharmaceutical companies, and the pharmaceutical companies made a practical
00:31:56business decision to stipulate to these complaints against them. They didn't fight them,
00:32:02they just surrendered, and it's a sad thing that they did, but all of these cases ended up being
00:32:08piled together into one settlement, and essentially this judge
00:32:18was trying to come up for a fair way to pay everybody out of the $26 billion that are
00:32:24generated by the settlement, which is not nearly as much as was generated in the cigarette settlement.
00:32:30That was like $120 billion. So $10 billion to be distributed, it's all going towards
00:32:40hunting doctors, it's all going towards forcing people off of opiates and onto
00:32:46buprenorphine or something. It's all misinformed, uninformed, and it's a juggernaut, and it's got a
00:32:54lot of momentum, and I'm praying that again, you know, maybe at some point we'll have congressional
00:33:00hearings about it, but it has given us a second challenge, not just the DEA
00:33:08controlling access to medications and the manufacture of it, but now the opioid settlement
00:33:14agreement essentially deputized the opioid distributing companies who have expertise in
00:33:19shipping, they don't have expertise in medicine, and they essentially delegated to them the policing.
00:33:26These are the people who hold the hall passes for the pharmacies now, and so the pharmacies
00:33:31are now terrified of losing the ability to fill prescriptions that are scheduled.
00:33:36It's a mess, very little bit of awareness, but we need much more awareness, and
00:33:45you know, with the political environment we're in right now, the news cycle is just not
00:33:51letting in any other kind of newsy things other than whatever's going on in politics, so we are
00:33:58kind of shut out from that until we can, as a nation, take a pause and deal with this human
00:34:04rights issue. Yeah, well, thank you very much. We'll want to stay attuned and let everybody know
00:34:12that we're behind them, and whatever we can do, we'll want to go on. The next thing I want to do
00:34:19is, first off, I see where my good friend Donna Corley has made a few notes and some other people
00:34:24here on the screen about KPV. Yeah, that is a peptide, and if you've got anything, not just this
00:34:30show, but future shows that you want to throw on the screen as a tip or idea, be our guest. We love
00:34:37it, okay? We're here to help and share. Let's see, Rhonda Posey, are you out there hiding?
00:34:45She was here. Have we lost her? There she is. There she is. Oh, you got her? Hi, Dr. Posey.
00:34:56There you are. Thank you, Jamie, for that. Oh, there you are. We got you. All right.
00:35:02That's great. Rhonda, you were one of the first people to come on the show and talk about
00:35:08collagen, and you've talked about it a lot, and you had a journey of your own, which is,
00:35:16to me, somewhat miraculous, and you've tried a lot of things. Let's go back to this whole idea
00:35:24of collagen and supplements and the idea of the counterbalance. If those viruses and that process
00:35:35in your body has got to wear down your nerves or your cauda equina, you got to rebuild. So,
00:35:42we're really talking rebuilding. What's your thoughts about collagen since you started talking
00:35:46about it? What it does? What do you recommend? Let's give the folks a good tip on it.
00:35:55Thank you, Dr. Tennant, and hello to everyone. It's really nice to see everyone,
00:36:00Jamie, Dr. Ibsen. Collagen, I cannot say enough good about collagen for what it has done
00:36:16for me personally in a relatively short period of time, and then not only for myself, but
00:36:26from what other people are reporting back to me that now that they're taking collagen, they say
00:36:32it's just, you know, some people have said night and day. Those are my words, and some have agreed
00:36:38with that. Some have said that it's just a very important part of their daily treatment plan now,
00:36:49which I agree. As far as this counterbalance goes with the treatable, arachnoiditis is not curable.
00:36:58It is treatable. Collagen is a very important structure in my personal daily
00:37:09protocol, self-care protocol, and it is a commitment to every single day you have to
00:37:14do these things for yourself, and it does take time to load up all your supplements in a bowl,
00:37:20you know, drink your collagen or mix it in your coffee, however, you know, whatever collagen
00:37:25product you're taking. It is a commitment, but it is so worth it to do every single day. It takes
00:37:32five minutes, ten minutes, you know, whatever, and I would like to emphasize that what I have found
00:37:39out about collagen is if you can find a marine collagen, which is the one that I take, I will
00:37:47gladly recommend this to you if you want to reach out to me. If you want to go searching for one,
00:37:53search for a marine collagen. Marine collagen is most similar to the human body's collagen. It is
00:38:03upwards of one and a half times more bioavailable to our system, and it's a type one collagen,
00:38:11which is the most predominant source of collagen for connective tissue, cartilage,
00:38:17bones, tendons, and skin, which is the largest organ. So, not only are you going to feel an inward
00:38:25difference of, say, joint pain relief, which that was the first thing I experienced, and it was
00:38:32pretty impressive, just a light bulb moment when I realized that joints weren't hurting anymore,
00:38:38but the more I kept with it, it decreased the AA pain as well, like the way your hips hurt,
00:38:49especially like in the mornings. My hips don't hurt as badly in the mornings getting up.
00:38:55My mornings are easier going. It's just a lot better, but not only will you get that
00:39:02inward benefit, you're also going to get the benefits of seeing your skin look healthier
00:39:09and your hair growing like crazy, your nails growing like crazy. To us, that's an icing on
00:39:17the cake, right? I mean, we're signing up for the inward stuff, but you're also going to see
00:39:22the outward stuff too. So, I highly encourage everyone. Also, an important thing to remember
00:39:28when you take collagen is vitamin C is a very important cofactor in taking collagen. It's a
00:39:36must. Think of it as like the mortar that holds the bricks together. That is going to help that
00:39:44vitamin C synthesize in your body and help it be more bioavailable to yourself. So,
00:39:52you know, don't take collagen without vitamin C. Yeah, thank you very much, Rhonda.
00:40:00One thing about vitamin C, it's very interesting. Vitamin C has been an old, old remedy used by
00:40:06doctors for maybe a century or two for all kinds of virus infections, and there are two investigators
00:40:14have done studies on what herbal and natural compounds suppress the Epstein-Barr virus the
00:40:19best. Vitamin C is right up there at the top. So, I think vitamin C should be a daily thing along
00:40:28with collagen and a plate of multivitamins, a good place to start dealing with any of these
00:40:33conditions. Jamie, I think you have a guest that we'd like to at least have. We've got a little
00:40:39time left. We would like to introduce her. Yes, sir. Can you do so? Yes, sir. We have a very
00:40:45special guest named Ann Turner. She's a wonderful friend. She's a great advocate, and she has been
00:40:52on a journey like none other. Ann, welcome to the show. Thanks for being with us, as you have been
00:40:59most weeks that we've had our show. So, thank you. Yeah, sure, Jamie. Yeah. Can you hear me?
00:41:07And thanks for being with us, and we're so glad you've come on the show, and I know you've been
00:41:12with us a long time. Can you give us a couple of quick things about yourself? Where do you
00:41:19live, first off? I live in Northeast Ohio. Northeast Ohio. I'm 63. You're 63. You got
00:41:26grandkids, kids? What do you tell us about that? No, I never had kids, so I don't have any grandkids.
00:41:33A lot of people are going to say that's a good way to go. No, it's not. I wish I would have
00:41:42five kids at this point. I see. Okay. What's happened to you medically? Well, originally,
00:41:51I had an accident. It was July 31st of 2017. I had a fall at a pool, and they were on the stairs
00:42:01going down to get in the pool. It was an above-ground pool. So, anyways, the railing went to
00:42:07break, and I fell into the pool and pulled my arm really, really bad. I mean, so bad that I knew
00:42:15instantly that this was going to be devastating, and I couldn't even move for about 15 minutes.
00:42:23I just had to sit there in the pool, and the girl that I was at her house really didn't.
00:42:29She really didn't understand how much pain I was in. It's amazing how people just ignore you,
00:42:37but anyway. I went to the emergency room, and of course, they couldn't do nothing but an x-ray,
00:42:45and it wasn't broke. It's your shoulder. Well, I'd already been on disability for my right shoulder
00:42:55since 2013. So, therefore, I was working at a deficit anyway, having a really bad right shoulder,
00:43:03and you know, everything's a long story, so I don't want to go into it, but
00:43:07I used to depend on my left arm because my right one was, you know, not too great. So,
00:43:15after I had this fall, I finally went to, well, I went to my doctor then, and after everything
00:43:24I went through with the doctors and trying to get, I needed an MRI. Well, they wouldn't let me have
00:43:30one until I went to physical therapy, and I'm like, I have my arm practically hanging off my body. I
00:43:37mean, I ripped the rotator cuff and the bicep muscle off the bone, and they made me go to rehab,
00:43:47and that was, you know, four and a half months till I could get an MRI, and that showed what
00:43:53happened with the complete tear of my rotator cuff and the bicep muscle. Well, I had surgery.
00:44:02I had my first surgery in January of 18, and that was to try to repair it,
00:44:08and I kept telling them over and over, something's not right. It's not right. I'm in 24-7 pain,
00:44:15and nobody would listen to me, and I had been on Percodans for years for my right shoulder.
00:44:23You know, I'm not opiate naive, and when they gave me pain medicine after the surgery,
00:44:31they gave me some kind of long-acting, and I was still taking the Percodan that I've
00:44:36always been taking since 2009, and I kept telling them this medicine's not working,
00:44:42and well, that's all they'd give me, and I just couldn't understand it.
00:44:47Well, here I come to find out about the 2016 guidelines. I knew nothing about all this. I
00:44:53had no idea this was going on in the country with pain medicine, and that was the middle of
00:45:002018. That's when I started reading and researching and finding out what was going on,
00:45:08and so from there, I had another surgery in December of 2018, and they did a TSR.
00:45:18Well, it's complete total shoulder replacement in my left shoulder,
00:45:24and of course, again, I'm in constant pain, excruciating pain 24-7,
00:45:31and again, nobody would listen to me. Nobody would give me any higher pain medicine, nothing.
00:45:38And I just couldn't believe what was going on. I never had any
00:45:44improprieties with medicine, or I've never gotten in trouble for anything like that,
00:45:52and so it's just led me down this road, Dr. Tennant, till the point where I was ready to
00:46:00unalive myself until I got a unicorn doctor on March 29th of this year,
00:46:08and that's Mark, because he told me I can mention it was him. It was Dr. Ibsen, and he was,
00:46:19well, I'd known you guys for years. I'd watched you and him for years. I've known all about you
00:46:24and him for probably four to five years. I know about, I have your book, and I have Dr. Mark's
00:46:31book, but Dr. Mark is my second savior, because if he hadn't started helping me,
00:46:40I really wouldn't be here anymore. I can't take the pain anymore.
00:46:45Very good.
00:46:46Yeah, so it's, you know, it's a very long story, Dr. Tennant, but I had a severe car accident in
00:46:571976 when I was 16, and I had a whiplash and a broken nose, and my neck had hurt me
00:47:05ever since then. All my life, I'd gone to chiropractors, and then after this accident,
00:47:12my neck took backseat to the shoulder, you know, because the shoulder was just like
00:47:18unbelievable pain. So here, I had an x-ray and MRI of my neck last year. I insisted on it, and
00:47:30C5 and C6 were impinging the nerves to my spinal cord, and here, this had probably been going on
00:47:38at least six years, and nobody would ever look at it. Nobody ever, nobody even mentioned it might
00:47:44be coming from my neck, right? So I had the surgery, the ACDF surgery. They go in through
00:47:51your neck and go back and put like a cage in your cervical spine, and of course, that surgery,
00:48:00the neurosurgeon said that he was just helping me prevent it, not get worse, but of course,
00:48:07he couldn't guarantee that it would get, my pain would get better either, and I've actually,
00:48:14I've gotten worse is what I was going to say. So let me just, I want to stop right here, because
00:48:20you just said one of my major concerns about medical practice, and that is, you're talking
00:48:30about, you said you had two discs in your neck that had degenerated to the point you needed
00:48:36surgery. Here's my question. What did they tell you caused them?
00:48:45They didn't tell me what caused them. Did you ask them? Well, I just thought maybe it was deteriorated
00:48:54from that wreck that I was in in 76. Why would you think it would do that? Why would you think
00:49:01there was a lot of years, wasn't it? Yeah, well, I just figured over what, 40-something years,
00:49:07I just figured I hurt my neck really bad back then, and I just thought, well, maybe that's
00:49:14what that was from. I was being my own doctor and guessing, because nobody else seemed to care.
00:49:19Well, I think you were probably right, but what you probably don't know, but what we know now,
00:49:27and here's one of my admonitions for everybody watching this, if you have a disc in your neck
00:49:34or in your back, you better ask why you got it, what caused it, and until you get that answer,
00:49:43don't ever sit for an epidural or for surgery or for anything. Here's what I'm getting at.
00:49:51The biggest fraud, in my opinion, we have, fraud is too much worse of a term. It's really
00:49:57ignorant. Discs are very soft tissues made of a lot of collagen. They become inflamed.
00:50:08Guess what causes the inflammation? Viruses, okay? Lack of oxygen, lack of exercise,
00:50:17you may be a contributor, but the point I'm getting at, you were probably right.
00:50:21That accident you had clear back then probably activated an autoimmune response through your
00:50:29parasites. You end up in trouble 20 years later, so people are going to need to start rethinking
00:50:37what severe trauma does mean, okay? In other words, you have severe trauma when you're 15
00:50:43years of age, look out. Everybody knows you might pay a penalty when you're 40, but why?
00:50:50We have in America today, hundreds, thousands of people have discs that have degenerated,
00:50:58and they're not forcing their doctors to tell them why. Start forcing your doctors to tell you
00:51:05why your disc has degenerated. Force your doctors to tell you why you have spinal stenosis.
00:51:12Force your doctors to tell you why you have cauda equinae inflammation. This idea of,
00:51:18oh yeah, you've got two discs in your lumbar and one in your cervical, so let's throw a few
00:51:23epidurals in there, maybe some PRPs. You see what I'm getting at? This has got to go, okay?
00:51:34I'm not being critical of anybody because I don't think they knew, but going forward,
00:51:40I want you and everybody else, don't take this that your disc is just the way it is and we need
00:51:45an operation. Don't take that anymore. I never had any epidurals or anything like that. I've had
00:51:56injections of steroids and that stuff, but I've never had. I've learned about the epidurals,
00:52:02luckily, before this surgery happened that I would never have those.
00:52:11Well, again, I want to make it, it's your body, it's your life. You not only have it right,
00:52:18but you have a responsibility to have your doctors tell you why you have something,
00:52:24not what it is, and recommend treatment. Why did you get it? Okay? Because the studies on
00:52:32what causes discs to regenerate are very clear. You've heard me on this program talk about
00:52:38cytokines and interleukins and viruses, and these things are well documented in the literature,
00:52:45but in my opinion, everybody wants to avoid the issue of talking about why your discs have gone
00:52:52bad. Yeah. So now, it's not like I can go back and ask him now, could I go to the neurosurgeon
00:52:59and ask him? I would. Okay. Tell him you were on this show and the doctor on the show was
00:53:06raising a holy net about you not knowing why your discs are going bad. This way they can shut this
00:53:13show down. This is a national problem. Discs are a huge, huge problem, and the public has just sort
00:53:24of taken it as, this is life. No, it's not life. It's a disease. Disc degeneration represents some
00:53:33problem, a severe problem that's gone on with your immune system, your hormones,
00:53:39your metabolism system. Discs don't just degenerate. There's a reason why they degenerate,
00:53:46and you have an obligation to know why, and don't accept any treatments until you get a full
00:53:52explanation, your blood tests, your MRIs, to know why your discs have degenerated. So I should go
00:53:59back to him and find out. I want to know why. Yeah, find out why. Now, you bet, and it's not too late,
00:54:07because I hate to tell you this, if you don't, maybe you're going to get more. Yeah, yeah,
00:54:15yeah. In my opinion, there's certain blood tests you ought to have at this point,
00:54:19and certain things you probably ought to be doing at this time, based on new information.
00:54:25Well, I've watched you a lot, so I probably need the hormone level checked and all that, you know.
00:54:32Absolutely. In other words, you've still got a little life left. You're still
00:54:39reasonably young, okay? We might get you to 80 yet.
00:54:49Okay, all right. Well, thank you so much. Your story is instructive. It's a long, long story,
00:54:55but I just said, you know, we only have a little time, but yeah. You know this young lady,
00:55:02do you want to ask her any questions? I've been on her case long enough, okay?
00:55:10Well, all I want to say is that it takes a lot of courage to deal with a chronic debilitating
00:55:17illness. Pain is an effing terrorist, and it can wear away our souls. And yeah,
00:55:28I want you to make it to 80, because I want you to be able to create a life that's worth
00:55:32living between now and then. Not a life that you're surviving, but a life that you can actually
00:55:39say, I'm so glad I'm still here, and that's my commitment. That's all I got.
00:55:45Thanks, Dr. Ibsen.
00:55:49You want to ask her a question?
00:55:52She doesn't know me, Dr. Tennant. Jamie knows me, but I don't really know any of the other ladies.
00:55:59Sure, I would just have a question for you, Anne, is what do you think that your biggest,
00:56:06and this is personal, and of course you don't have to answer, and we can cut this out,
00:56:10but I'm just, I know only a percentage of what you've survived, and that percentage is
00:56:19mind-blowing. I would like for you to share, if you will, what is your number one source of,
00:56:30how do you get through all of this, is what I'm trying to ask you, especially all the years
00:56:36before you had care, how did you get through? Was it sheer willpower? Was it faith? What was it? How
00:56:42did you get through? I just have a very strong will to live, and I am a Christian, and I believe
00:56:53in God, and I believe we're all here for a reason, and my reason was always rescuing animals and
00:57:00helping animals, and I've not been able to do that for seven years now, and I've just always
00:57:08loved doing that, and it's a sheer will to live. I love life. I used to, I mean, I love life.
00:57:19I mean, who doesn't love life, unless you have a terrible life, but
00:57:24I guess that's it. It's just, we're only given a precious little time on this earth,
00:57:31it's like, you know, a firework that goes up and goes out, and I just wanted to live it.
00:57:40Well, I was given this life for a reason, and to fight for my life, I guess that's my reason right
00:57:48now. Beautiful. That's beautiful, and that helps all of us, too, as well. It helps others. Yeah,
00:57:58and, you know, with losing my mom over all this, Jamie has really done it in for me.
00:58:04I couldn't be her caregiver, and my mom died needlessly, because I had to put her in that
00:58:10care center, and if I'd have been my normal self, or with some kind of pain management,
00:58:18she would have lived longer living with me, you know, but that's a whole other story, and,
00:58:24you know, it's just, we all have very long stories. Yes, but that's all. That's all. Thank
00:58:32you for sharing what you shared. We really appreciate you being here, and I really,
00:58:38really look up to you for your courage, your will to live, your will to just keep fighting,
00:58:45and the fact that you have somehow, some way, found the strength to look outside of your own
00:58:51pain, your grief, everything that you've gone through, which is insurmountable in my eyes,
00:58:57but then you look outside of yourself to others, and you try to help others,
00:59:02and that's such a beautiful thing about you, and I hope everyone can adopt from you. I hope so,
00:59:08too, because it takes some strength, but I was always very strong. I was always strong mentally
00:59:16and physically, always my whole life. I was just raised the way I am. It's just in me,
00:59:24but thank you also, Jamie. You've been very kind and sweet to me, and
00:59:29I needed somebody like you in my life, so I appreciate you, and I, like I say, I've watched
00:59:36Dr. Tennant, Dr. Ibsen for years, and Dr. Ibsen is trying to save my life right now,
00:59:42and he's my second savior, because without him, I wouldn't be here right now. I couldn't take the
00:59:53pain anymore. I just couldn't. I mean, seven years was enough. It was enough, you know.
01:00:03And keep up the courage, and also your words of instruction and hope. Jamie, thank you so much
01:00:10for bringing us back. Rhonda and Mark, thanks again for being here. We're out of time. We will
01:00:16be back next week. Good night. Thank you. Thank you. Good night, everyone. Good night, everybody.
01:00:26Thanks for being here with us. Good night. Love you guys. God bless you all. Thank you. You're
01:00:32not alone. That's right. Good seeing all your faces. It's great to see you all again.
01:00:42Great to see everyone. Good night, everybody. Bye-bye. Good night. See you next year. Bye,
01:00:49everyone. And look at it. Someone was trying to ask a question, and I'm not sure that either of
01:00:56the doctors or docs. Go ahead. Speak up. Well, there you are. In 1997. Yes, ma'am. Have you got
01:01:07it? Can you hear me? We can. It might be a little hard to hear you, and I don't know if either of
01:01:13the docs are still here. I know neither one of them are here anymore, but you're welcome to,
01:01:18of course, you're welcome to speak. Please do. Okay, Jamie, you know my story. Everybody that
01:01:25probably does by now. From 1997, when I fell, they have told me that my disc going bad,
01:01:36that I have a degenerating disc disease, and they're still writing that. Now, my husband
01:01:43has had his whole neck from one to seven to use. When they went in to do L5-S1, they were supposed
01:01:50to do L3, L4, and L5, but he has a main artery connected to L4, and they said if they'd nicked
01:01:57it, he would have bled out. So, they did L5-S1, shut him back up. Well, he's got four more ruptured
01:02:06discs in his thoracic and his lower back, and they're what makes these sessions again,
01:02:15and I'm petrified. He can barely go from over to the living room, you know, and I'm laid up. So,
01:02:23he tells him the same thing. You have a degenerating disc disease. There's got to be
01:02:29another way to get to the truth of where, why our disc is going bad, and especially
01:02:36so young. I was 42. Right, and I have something similar. Like when I was in my 30s, they told me,
01:02:43oh, you have DDD, but everyone has DDD is what I was told, and then they said,
01:02:49they said, you're too young to be in pain, and they said, there are so many people that have
01:02:54this, and they have no pain, and so I guess I was supposed to have no pain, and then when I got
01:02:59older, they told me, well, you're older now. Of course, you have pain. Of course, you have DDD.
01:03:04You're older now. Everyone has that. So, it's like, make up your mind. Which is it? I know,
01:03:11Dr. Tennant is telling you, you've got to ask these questions. How do you get further than
01:03:16what's written on the paper, having degenerative disease? That's all they'll tell us. Yeah,
01:03:22the closest thing we could do is just say to the person that diagnosed us, could you tell me how
01:03:27this happened? I respect when they say, I don't know, more than they just throw a diagnosis at
01:03:34me. I would rather them say, I have no idea. I respect that, but to just label me with some
01:03:40other thing that I might not even have. You know, I had the same pain doctor for five years,
01:03:46and he deserted me, just let me go after all the tears. Well, I googled him the other day,
01:03:53and he's fat, treating pain patients. How does that happen? How can they get back to their
01:04:03regular lives, and we can't get back? Honey, if I were you, I'd be walking through that front door.
01:04:09I'm not quite sure what I'd say. Go ahead. I'm sorry, guys. I'm done. Go ahead, Brandon.
01:04:27I was talking the other night with a friend of mine, and we're trying our best to get him
01:04:31palliative care, hospice care, so we decided, you know, we're going to go into pain management. So,
01:04:36the day I get a message on my phone from this dealing with neuropathy pain,
01:04:44tingling in front of your toes and feet, and I thought, would you like me to make your appointment,
01:04:51and I thought for a second, and he's like, you know what? Sure. So, I got with him today, so now
01:04:57I have an appointment at 1130 in two hours and 45 minutes from my home, and I'm going August 1st
01:05:05to Huntsville, Alabama, and I'm going to go there, and I'm going back to pain management.
01:05:11Enough is enough, and when I read their mission, they're elicit doctors, and they also include
01:05:22metabolism rates, so I think this is God sent, and that's where I'm going. I'm sorry. I believe
01:05:31the panels have come back the other day, the panels. I believe my panel is going to show above
01:05:3630 because I've been doing the protocol, and I called, and yep, I'll be there at 1130,
01:05:45and I'll be taking my notes. I just wanted to share that with y'all, just let y'all know.
01:05:51Thanks, Brando. I'm glad to hear that. I know you were really battling this week with that,
01:05:55and I know they say that we won't dump palliative care, but I've seen
01:05:59three different instances in the past week where palliative care was nothing more than a bridge
01:06:06between a physician, and it was more like home health care with a prescriber that could not
01:06:15prescribe. It made zero sense, zero, so yeah. They expect you to die. They say that, well,
01:06:25I have one of the patients, they weren't dying quickly enough. I'm like, how do you put someone,
01:06:33this person was put on hospice, not palliative, hospice, and they did a three-month review,
01:06:40and all of a sudden, they're not dying fast. They're not deteriorating quickly enough,
01:06:46and so they were dropped off of hospice completely. It's crazy.
01:06:52Jamie, I was on palliative care in Maryland. I came to Florida in November.
01:06:59They're telling me here in Florida that they don't have palliative care. They only have
01:07:06end-of-life care, because I was wondering why I can't get it transferred. I have all of my
01:07:13records. I have 25 years worth of records. Yeah, if anybody would get it, you definitely
01:07:19would be qualified for it. Well, they said they don't have it, and that was at the hospital. They
01:07:26had set up out front trying to get people to buy extended insurance for end-of-life care and stuff,
01:07:34and they said that they don't have it here in Florida. Now, I had talked to,
01:07:40I think her name was Cora at one point. I don't, if she's listening, could you give me a call if
01:07:48you have my number anymore? I don't have hers, and she was talking about some kind of care that
01:07:53is not end-of-life care, that is not hospice, so I'm not exactly sure now. I don't remember. I can't
01:08:02remember anything, but anyhow, I just took up all y'all's time again. No, you totally didn't.
01:08:08No, no, you didn't. Well, I heard in my state, in Alabama, the hospice care has changed,
01:08:16that you no longer have to show that you're six months, you're going to die. Right. You just have
01:08:22to show, yeah, but then when we got on the phone and discussed, you have to have this and this and
01:08:31this, and you're not even guaranteed you're going to get your pain care. Yeah, like they can treat
01:08:37a person and say, oh, well, we can take you in with palliative care, and that will be for
01:08:42nourishment because the person may have lost 15 pounds in three months, but they'll just put you
01:08:49on the protein pump. They're not going to, that doesn't mean that they're going to put a person
01:08:52on pain medicine, so it's just, to me, now maybe Dr. Tennant and Dr. Ibsen have a totally different
01:09:00view of this because maybe they know something or see something that I don't, but just I'm only
01:09:06speaking from my own personal experience, so there may be a whole world of palliative care
01:09:11out there that's excellent. I just happen to not be a person that's found that yet.
01:09:16Me neither. Me neither. Okay.
01:09:20So, I just, and I also am looking forward to this MME thing to go out the window because that's
01:09:28really, that's been a huge barrier as well, so we're trying, guys, but we are out of time for
01:09:34tonight, and Jean-Marie, I will save that number, definitely, because I've been texting your
01:09:40landline, so I will definitely get a hold of you, and thank all of you for being here,
01:09:48Karen and Kenneth, just every person that's here, everybody that has stayed behind afterwards,
01:09:54and we will see you again next week. Please invite some friends so that they'll hear the news too.
01:09:59This will be uploaded to rumble.com forward slash DocTalks. Thank you all, and have a great night.
01:10:05You're not alone. Night, Jamie. Night, everybody. Love you, Jamie. Love everyone.
01:10:12Thank you all so much. Love you. Bye, guys. Bye.