Street debate: What's life like when you 'japa' to Germany?
What's life like, when you go to study or work in Europe? In this Street Debate, Edith Kimani is in Hamburg to talk to young African working professionals. She finds out what drew and kept these highly skilled workers in Germany, the challenges of finding well-paid jobs back home and whether they feel they can give back to their countries of origin.
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00:00Hello and welcome back to the 77% Street Debate. My name is Edith Kimani and this week we are in
00:05unfamiliar territory. We are in the second largest city of Germany, Hamburg. Now in recent years,
00:10it's come to be a home for experts looking for better opportunities abroad. Among those of course
00:16are Africans. The reasons why they're here, they will be telling us shortly, but also the
00:20implications that their absence at home has on their economies there. And we're going to begin
00:25with Abubakar. You're a Nigerian and you came here in 2020, but you didn't stay very long because you
00:31were here for your master's. Went back to Nigeria and then decided to return. Tell me a little bit
00:35about that. I think as someone who has master's, I have better opportunities here in Germany.
00:41If I am to be paid the same salary I'm getting in Germany, in Nigeria, I would gladly move to
00:47Nigeria, but because I don't have such opportunities, then I am left with no other option than to
00:52move back to Germany and look for a job. Yeah, but you're not speaking theoretically because when
00:57you moved back to Nigeria, you actually attempted to find a job. How did that work out for you?
01:02Yeah, to be honest, I couldn't get the job I wanted because as someone that studied mathematics,
01:07everybody thinks, everybody from the community thinks I'm supposed to teach or work somewhere
01:12in the banks, which was where I worked before I moved to Germany for my master's. So I had to come
01:17back and look for a real job. Yeah, somebody else who has a similar experience is precious. He's
01:22actually Dr. Precious. Like Abubakar here, you also moved back to Nigeria hoping to get employment,
01:28but you only stayed there for eight months. Yes, it was quite challenging. I made a lot of
01:33applications to different institutions, companies, universities, and at the end of the day, you get
01:38nothing back. Of course, there's the need for people like me back home in Nigeria, but the question is,
01:43is the infrastructure there? Somebody else who definitely needs infrastructure and facilities
01:48is Hawa. You are a maritime engineer, the first one I have to admit that I've ever spoken to,
01:53and you also tried to get a job in Nigeria, but that didn't go down quite as planned.
01:57I started looking for a job, but it was pretty difficult for me. So many people told me,
02:02okay, you're female. Some said, okay, you're willing to and all of that. And when I eventually got a job,
02:08it was pretty hard for me because I had to do, you know, double the effort. I have to put in
02:13double the effort to be seen as someone who is capable of carrying out the job.
02:17So we're going to come back to some of the issues that played your different industries in a short
02:22while, but I want us to get grounded in some statistics first. And Roger here actually works
02:26with a company that brings workers to Germany. And you tell me it's because somebody was
02:31desperately looking for workers. Yeah, actually somebody in Hamburg, and it was a bus driving
02:36company, one of the two largest bus driving companies in Germany. And now the first
02:40five bus drivers, one group for integration reasons, not to be so lonely, to help each
02:45other out, this kind of thing. We'll start in Flensburg, which is even farther up north than
02:49Hamburg, and the next five will probably come to Hamburg also this year. So you're still very
02:54much in the early days, but somebody might listen to you and say, well, Germany also has an
02:59unemployment problem. Why not hire German drivers to drive those buses? Who said that Germany,
03:04Germany has an unemployment problem? Well, statistically, there is a figure there when
03:08you look at Germany unemployment. Yeah, okay. Statistically, there is a figure, but this is very,
03:13very low. So there is a demand for skilled workers in every field. We are speaking not only
03:19about bus drivers, we're speaking about doctors, lawyers, judges, architects, name it. Yeah. So
03:26these are essentially known as deficit professions, the ones that he's just mentioned,
03:31including engineering. And Germany, specifically, according to the latest figures by the Chamber of
03:37Commerce and Industry, is apparently falling short by 2 million positions. Is that how you
03:42felt when you came into this country again? Not really. Because there are lots of people in
03:50Germany, both indigenous and foreigners who come to Germany to work and these people don't even
03:57find the jobs that we keep hearing in abundance. Although yes, so many people do find these jobs,
04:04but you still find even much more people not finding these jobs. So sometimes they end up
04:09going back home to then look for a job at home or they might come back again. Let me come back to
04:15Roger because while we were speaking earlier, you did mention to me that one of the biggest
04:19challenges, which I thought was interesting, is that people don't stay. I just can tell you that
04:23our clients or possible clients say this is the greatest challenge. People come and they leave
04:28after a year. So the key word here is integration, I think. But I also believe like when I see
04:34everybody here around, they come for university or something alone, and they have to find their
04:39way. And if they come in winter, that is even worse. And they don't know, because nobody really
04:43expects coming from an African country that we have four or five or six months of shitty weather,
04:48you know, I mean, shitty weather. And you can explain that to people from Kenya, wherever I
04:53can, as long as I want to, you have to experience it. Otherwise, you won't believe it. If you
04:58survive in Germany for one or two years, and maybe you even a family and you can bring it over,
05:02I think you will stay for a long time. Okay, we are, you know, we are not very
05:08joyous people. Okay, when you get to know us, I think everyone is laughing because they recognize
05:15exactly what you're saying. But because you mentioned the idea of being integrated, and
05:19perhaps one day hoping to go back home, let me just see by show of hands, how many people here
05:24have an agenda to relocate fully back into their motherland in the next, say, five years.
05:29Wow. 10 years, maybe. Maybe, maybe for 10 years. Okay. So but Philip, let me ask you something.
05:40Do you feel beholden? Are you responsible for building Ghana? I mean, I was born a Ghanian
05:47for a reason, I believe. So I have to contribute whatever quota I have to contribute to Ghana to
05:52help build it. But currently, I don't see myself having the capacity, the money, you know,
05:57experience to do that. So I would want to get all of these here or somewhere in Europe,
06:03developed country to... But how does Africa develop if all the skilled people are coming
06:09to the developed world? Yeah, so exactly like me, I come to get the knowledge and then go back and
06:13then create a business or establish a business and then help the economy grow. Okay, so you
06:19don't feel like you have or you owe your country anything at this point? At this point, sometimes I
06:26try to convince myself I don't owe them anything. But within me, I feel I owe them something.
06:33Okay, so Philip is convincing himself he doesn't owe Ghana anything. Emanuela, do you need to
06:38convince yourself that Cameroon doesn't need you? Actually, I don't need to convince myself.
06:44And I think we are not the ones to answer that question, unfortunately. So now that we are doing
06:49this, I hope the government is watching and they should answer this. And this is not just about
06:54jobs. We've had people for, for example, in Cameroon will think, okay, if I can't get a job,
07:00I can do a business back home. And then they go and the taxes are crazy. And sometimes maybe you
07:07have to bribe your way to do a business that is going to benefit your country. If we all carry
07:13ourselves back home, because we think we owe our country something, and then we have to stay hungry.
07:19That's really been, sorry, foolish. Okay. Abubakar, I know that you have some very strong opinions
07:26about this. Do you think your country has let you down? Are they creating the infrastructure,
07:30the frameworks for you to be able to thrive back in Nigeria? So to be honest, I would say,
07:37sometimes it's not even that there is no job. Sometimes there is job both for some certain
07:43people. What do you mean? Like for some, for some people, for people that are connected for people
07:48that know someone who is at the top. Okay. Hold on. This guy just shouted nepotism. I have to come
07:53here. Yeah. I mean, what Abubakar said was correct. There might be jobs, but chances are,
08:01they will just give it to someone who is related to them rather than give it to some set of people
08:06who are qualified to do that. And that eventually has like a domino effect because if you put the
08:11wrong person with the wrong skills for a job, then they don't know what to do. They're just
08:16picking the salary and not adding value to the society that they are to. There's nepotism,
08:22there's corruption and the industries are simply not developed. So because I want us to wrap this
08:27up, I do want to find out, you know, how do we make this sustainable? Because Europe will continue
08:32to need workers and workers will continue to come to Europe or other developed nations.
08:38How do we do that while still taking care of African economies? Any takers? Abubakar? So I
08:45would say almost everybody you see here is contributing to the Africa's economy because
08:51at the end of the day, we are sending money back home. I feel like I would want to contribute more.
08:56Maybe some of us feel like we're contributing less because I think Nigeria owe me a lot. So I
09:00would want to contribute more in the future. So all right, Emanuela, let me hear from you because
09:05I know that you told me that you usually advise people unless you have found some firm ground
09:10here, do not attempt to go back home. Sure, and I do that all the time. Unless you have a job back
09:17home, do not go back home. So if you have a better job here, stay and be established before you can
09:25go back home. You know, we asked at the beginning why so many skilled workers are leaving their
09:29mother countries to come and work in Europe. The answers are many. One, Germany needs them and two,
09:35they definitely need the money. How to be sustainable? You've heard all the answers
09:39there. Thank you all for watching. Bye-bye.