A Q&A with Mark Murphy - #5 - Film and TV Director
Website: https://markmurphydirector.co.uk/
A Q&A with an award winning director, writer, and producer with over 20 years of experience. The fifth instalment of Mark Murphy Director Q&As.
A Q&A with an award winning director, writer, and producer with over 20 years of experience. The fifth instalment of Mark Murphy Director Q&As.
Category
🎥
Short filmTranscript
00:00Hello everyone, welcome back to another installment of our Q&A sessions with Mark Murphy, the movie director.
00:06Today we're just going to chat a little bit about the use of AI in the movie industry.
00:10Now, a lot of people are unsure about AI and how it's going to impact the movie industry, but what's your general opinion on it, Mark?
00:19Well, I mean, it is going to change the industry. I mean, in terms of, it's one of those giant leap forwards in the same way film to digital was.
00:30And every time there's change, there's panic, but also when there's change, there's opportunities.
00:37And, you know, you're either going to be on one side or the other.
00:40You're going to fear for your position in the industry, or you're going to find an opportunity to improve your position in the industry.
00:48Maybe because I've got somewhat of a producing background, I embrace it because it creates the opportunity to allow us to push further than we currently do.
01:04I'd say, well, at a very competitive price, because obviously you put in a few keywords in a prompt sentence, you get a result rather than having to give a brief and a committee's verdict on what the thing should look like.
01:26And then a month later, you get a product, but this is, you know, time efficient. You get a response immediately. And that's fantastic. It just, like digital did, it allows the whole system to move so much quicker, immediate results.
01:45If I want to see, for example, a film poster, once upon a time, I would have had to have gone to an agency who had their artists and said, right, these are the sort of ideas we're thinking, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
01:58A few weeks later, they've come up with some of our design suggestions, whereas I can now go on to chat G3T and say, right, here are a few bits of information about the film we've done, come up with a film poster, well, come up with a selection of ideas, and it will come up with them within 40 seconds.
02:24And a lot of them will be fantastic. Now, you may not want to use them, but it certainly allows you to then go to an agency and say, look, this is effectively what we want. You didn't have to commission or pay for a designer, which would have cost you thousands to do it, and you didn't have to wait the amount of time that you normally would.
02:46So, from a producer's point of view, that's where it works. Now, of course, from a designer's point of view, I get why they're panicking, because this is their bread and butter. On the flip side, of course, it does allow them to be more time efficient and cost effective, because they can do the same thing.
03:06But yes, there are going to be, things are going to change. But there's always going to be an opportunity for others to find a way for it to benefit them as well. As I've said before, I'm not too sure about actors, on the other hand, because I don't see how they will benefit from it, per se.
03:30For example, you can't go to one of the AI systems and say, right, here's a film I'm doing, give me a CGI or AI generated character to replace the one that I was going to do. It just can't do that. However, what it can do is it can replicate their voice.
03:55So, you are going to find the potential for a lot of actors to use that on ADR work, which stands for Additional Dialogue Recording, which happens at the end of a film when you think, okay, here's our final cut, but the sound's not very clear, there's some wind in the background or a car horn beeping, so we couldn't hear that person talking very much.
04:17We're going to bring Joe Broggs back into the studio and he's going to voice over his lines. Now, you'd be surprised just how much dialogue is done that way. I mean, in some Hollywood films, you're talking a large, large percentage of the film is done ADR.
04:37I mean, as anecdotal evidence, the film Flash Gordon from 1980, the American actor Sam Jones, who played Flash Gordon, who was probably better known to audiences as Flash Gordon in Ted, he looked great, but he sounded a bit dumb.
05:05So, 90% of what he actually, his lines on screen were actually dubbed by a different actor. The same with actually Andy McDowell in the film Greystoke, the Tarzan film from 1985. Christopher Lambert plays Tarzan or Lord Greystoke, and Andy McDowell played, I guess, the equivalent of Jane.
05:33But Glenn Close actually does all the dialogue. Now, the reason I'm saying all this is because there is so much ADR that goes over in the post-production in a film. And that's worth a lot of money to actors, because it's their time and, you know, usually within a contract, it includes a certain amount of ADR time, but not the complete performance.
06:00And also, in fact, some actors who are able to speak other languages, dub themselves into other languages. Now, with AI, that can give an amazing, indistinguishable, realistic replication of a person's voice.
06:23And I've tried it before on a test, and you could not tell the difference whether it was the actual actor saying it or the computer replicating it. And all it needed was one tiny, tiny sample of dialogue, maybe four or five words, and it had it. Absolutely down to, you know, the actor's mother wouldn't have been able to tell the difference.
06:46So, yes, actors, I can see a threat to what they're doing, but there's always going to be a need for actors, because a good actor brings something that most other actors can't bring. It's a unique feature and unique attribute.
07:01But yeah, so on the one hand, it's going to limit one area of potential revenue for them, but that's part of what the significant element of what the strikes were about last year was for the actors and the writers.
07:24For the actors worried about AI's influence on, well, stepping on their toes. So, I think what will happen is, and the agreements have gone out to the studios, is that the studios will not be allowed to replicate an actor's voice, either A, without their permission, or B, without compensation.
07:53So, either way, the actor will be like, okay, if you're going to do it, you do it, as long as it doesn't make me look like an idiot. But you still have to pay me, it's still my voice, it's just that you've decided rather than going into an ADR studio, you want to do it this way for time purposes, whatever it is, but you still have to pay me, it's my IP.
08:12So, they kind of nipped that in the bud early, which was wise. I think that was, I'm probably wrong here, but I think that was the significant threat, at least currently, that was posed to actors.
08:31But everywhere else, I think there were so many amazing opportunities. And the fact is, we always knew this was going to happen. I mean, look at any film set in the future, unless it's dystopian and it's Mad Max or something, it always features technology which has an AI element.
08:54I mean, the writing's been on the wall for a while, so it shouldn't come as a shock, especially to writers who've been writing about it for so long. But yeah, I think there are major leaps in a lot of industries, in all industries.
09:12And this is now a major leap that affects a lot of industries, but AI is obviously going to have a tremendous effect on the media industry. And like I say, I'm seeing the ways that it's going to work for us, not against us.
09:29Nice. Would you say that the advances in AI, the recent advances, obviously over the past few years, it seems to have gone miles into the future. Would you say it's changed the way you approach filmmaking at all?
09:45Okay, so I'll give you an example of how it can. Here's the thing. I mean, we're really, really, at the early days of it, AI is still not that good. Despite what people fear, it's really not that good.
10:06Yes, it can come up with an amazing photorealistic image. And I think there have probably been quite a few AI images put out there that obviously have made people think, hang on, is that real? Like the pope in that sort of, I don't know, what was it, a white parker jacket or something?
10:28So yeah, it can do those things. But when it actually comes to the element of motion, motion an element? It's not. But when it actually comes to motion, it struggles. Which is why we're not seeing any films out there that are AI generated. All it can do that I've seen so far, is it can take an image and put motion into it, which tricks the audience to think that they're seeing an open shot.
10:57What I'd suggest is, you go and Google some of the things like Star Wars trailer, 1950s, where someone has created a 1950s style trailer for Star Wars and it looks fantastic. It looks like a B movie from the 1950s with our Star Wars characters that we all know and love. And it looks great. But all of them are actually still images that have been generated.
11:26With a filter that's been applied. So there's a bit of movement. So for example, movement may be applied in the background, like in the sky. So you've got clouds moving, now you see clouds moving, you think you're seeing a moving shot. But in each of these, it's only like a slight amount of motion, either from side to side or pushing. There are no crane shots that move around the forest or anything like that. No, it's very simple.
11:53And there are AI generators where you can say, okay, motion on the eyes, I'll do a blink. But all of these small things are just little filters applied to a still image. That's all they are. You can't make a trailer for Titanic, as if the film was made in 1840 before film existed. It can't do that. Not yet.
12:20And obviously 1840 would be a terrible example, because it would predate the film camera anyway. But the point is, there are still limitations. But if you understand those limitations, then you can make it work for you. Now, I'll give you a specific example.
12:38I'm wanting to make a trailer, I've got some of the live shot footage, but I want to blend it with some other footage that will complement it. Rather than going out and spending a fortune trying to make it, to film it, I can just spend an afternoon with a big brain, creating maybe 15-20 shots that will complete the trailer, rather than up to a month or so of actually doing it.
13:08For real. Now, to give a better understanding of how AI can help a film, I'm going to use the Star Wars example, which is when George Lucas made Star Wars. He created his Lucasfilm SFX department, changed everything with model animation.
13:32So all of the Millennium Falcon and the X-Wing fighters and la la la la la. He created a new style of doing it. Well, he didn't personally, but he was behind the industrial arts and magic, etc, that did do it.
13:46Now, that was the final piece to go into the film, but he wanted to show and share the film with some of his collaborative friends like Spielberg, Coppola, Rhonda Palmer, Ron Howard and da da da da da. And get their verdict.
14:04Now, of course, they're watching the film. This is the first kind of film of its kind. If you go before Star Wars, there aren't any of those kind of weird cheese script 1940s matinee movie style films. This was what he'd done, but it was obviously what then led to the next 30, 40, 50 years worth of action film, fantasy film, sci-fi film genres.
14:32Now, so yeah, he showed them. It was already kind of weird for them anyway, but it was a good film, so they were enjoying it. But when it came to the end finale, the third act where they go to destroy the Death Star, he didn't have the completed shots for the VFX where the model Millennium Falcon and the Death Star and the big battle ensues.
14:56So he had to find a replacement or substitute to mimic the idea, the story, the pacing of it. And in fact, being the influence for him. And that was taking the footage from films like the Battle of Britain or other Second World War films with aerial battle sequences. So he literally harvested that footage, put it into his film.
15:22So you're watching all of this footage. You're watching C-3PO and Princess Leia and the rebel base overseeing the battle in the stars. They're watching on their computer system. And then you're cutting to some black and white footage of some Second World War planes attacking each other. And of course, you're watching that. For George Lucas, it wasn't a distraction because he knew what he intended.
15:48But for an audience person to watch it, they had no idea what was going on. Even though he explained to them, they were just like, this is really distracting. But for him, it was the missing piece. Now, this is where AI can help because AI could have filled in those missing pieces by coming up with something that was, here's a representation of the model you're building.
16:10So we can actually create something that may not look overly realistic or a little bit animated, but it makes sense to the viewer's eye and the mind that, okay, that's the Rebel Alliance's ship attacking that ship. It all makes sense. And therefore, it doesn't disjoint the whole thing.
16:37Now, for George Lucas, no, that wouldn't make any difference. I mean, he could get his blind neighbor to do an animation for it that looked awful and no one would question it because it's George Lucas. But back then, he was George Lucas, the guy that hadn't made the most successful film of all time. So he didn't have that latitude.
16:57He had to find ways of portraying his story, convincing people of his story that would get them on board and behind him. And in fact, it works well for him in a funny sense that it didn't because 20th Century Fox felt that he was making an absolute turkey. It was going over budget. And they said, we want to pull the plug.
17:22And he goes, I'll tell you what, I'll give you everything, all of my fee from this film. The only thing I ask back in return is I keep the rights to the sequels and any merchandising rights. And for them, it's like, well, there's never going to be a sequel. It's absolutely fine. And what do you mean merchandising rights? Because films never did merchandising rights in those days. And of course, it became the biggest merchandising...
17:44The guy became one of Hollywood's first billionaires, in fact, the first billionaire because of it. Anyway, point being, he lucked out in a weird way. But now, I would be able to create those shots to show a financier, a studio, an exec, whoever it is, when I say, okay, I need your support on this.
18:08And this is why I can then show them something that theoretically, a few years back, I've had to spend maybe a million or more creating to have the same product, maybe a tiny bit better, but essentially the product that they can understand, they can now have. And then I can take it to the next step.
18:32A shorter, sweeter version of this, if you want to delete everything I just said is, you're a filmmaker who has a story you want to tell, you don't have any money, you can't make a short film version of it because you don't have the money for that, even though that's so much cheaper now anyway, because you can shoot on your phone. You can just spend a couple of days and a week, whatever, on your computer, come up with a trailer, come up with an idea, and then have it.
18:59And say, this is what I'm trying to sell you. And people can understand that. People are bored of reading. And that's the people who should be reading, who sign checks. Obviously, checks don't exist anymore. And that's the whole point. But AI is creative. AI is scared of a lot of people, I get it. And there are areas that are going to have to change. But at the same time, it's opening the door for so many people who wouldn't have the opportunity otherwise.
19:26If we take an example of the 747 plane, when it became the 747-400, this is the jumbo jet plane. It was so advanced, it didn't need the engineer. So a cockpit, I know this is so random, my dad was a pilot, that's why I'm using it. But it's all about the meaning and sacrifice of evolution, in a sense, and progress.
19:49Before it was a three-man crew, then it became a two-man crew. Of course, one person lost his career. But at the same time, you ended up getting a much safer plane. So in the long run, it was worth it. And of course, it's not instantaneous. That's the other thing.
20:04So that third person who, let's say, represents the people that will lose out in the industry because of AI, they don't lose their job overnight. It's just a job that won't be replaced. It will be phased out. So when they're done, there won't be others to replace them. And if you're thinking, oh, dang, I really wanted to do that job. And now that's not going to be a job in the future. Don't study for it. Don't train for it.
20:30And if you do, that's your own fault. I have no sympathy for you. But in the long run, this is going to create a level playing field for so many people. In the same way that digital filmmaking did, that people could suddenly take a cheap £1,000 camera or £4,000 camera that had great film-looking qualities, and go and tell a story that opened them up to the same prospects that people had gone to film school 20 years ago.
21:00And having spent thousands for that privilege, it made it a level playing field. This makes it even more so. That's evolution. That's progress. So if people are scared of that, they're missing the bigger picture.
21:12So just one last thing to finish up.
21:14Oh, great.
21:16Is there any advice you would give to aspiring filmmakers about using AI in their work?
21:22Well, again, I mean, I wouldn't suggest they... I mean, look, I mean, it's tempting to try and make a whole film using AI to see if it works. But don't think you're going to sell it. You won't. And I don't think there'll be many execs that will be particularly keen on spending an hour and a half watching some AI-generated feature film unless it's done amazingly well.
21:43However, it is a great shorthand tool that you can use to make your point across clearly.
21:50The other thing I would suggest is really understand how to do it. Because like everything, it sounds easy, but it's not. And the generations that are younger than me seem to be able to embrace this side of things a lot easier.
22:10So, you know, doing special effects on computers has become... it's no longer the exclusive domain of big, expensive post-production houses. A lot of people can do fantastic stuff on their home computers.
22:24Likewise with this, it's not, as I've been finding, not just as simple as going to one AI program and saying, I want to see a gothic castle in a thunderstorm in the middle of a forest, blah, blah, blah. It's actually a case of, right, you have to come up with the first prompt, then you've got to put it into an image generator, then you've got to put it into another generator to create the illusion of motion.
22:52Then you've got to put it into a post-production editing. So it's not easy is what I'm saying. There is a discipline and a process. But my only advice would be study it. Because you know what, it's here to stay. It's not going. Nothing goes when it makes life cheaper and more efficient just because people protest it.
23:14It's not going. So embrace it and make it work for you, is what I'd say.
23:23Lovely. Well, thank you very much for your time. I'm sure you're eager to get back to the beach. And I'm sure we will be speaking again very soon.