NSW government tells public sector to return to office

ABC NEWS (Australia)

The New South Wales government has directed public servants to return to the office marking a change from Covid-19 flexible working arrangements. While the move has been praised by business groups unions say it’s not the end of working from home.

Transcript

00:00They are out of step, though, with other state governments,

00:04other organisations in other industries.

00:06And so it will be interesting to see how this actually plays out.

00:09We've seen in other industries and other countries

00:12where a return-to-the-office mandate has been put in place

00:15that it hasn't worked well and it's caused turnover

00:18and it's caused increased staff dissatisfaction.

00:21We should be clear on this with this New South Wales government advice.

00:25It's not, like, you must work five days from work.

00:27It's the directive is principally...

00:30..you have to work principally from the office.

00:34Mm. So it's not really clear,

00:35and I think they talk principally, you know,

00:38quite a number of times in that release.

00:40And what we know from the research is that the model of three-two,

00:43so around three days in the office, two days at home,

00:46is the ideal for most people.

00:48That sort of covers off a range of outcomes

00:51that employers are hoping to achieve

00:53and individuals actually appreciate in terms of not coming in.

00:56And that flexibility, that model,

00:59has been shown to produce a 3% to 5% productivity increase.

01:03So that research is there. It's very clear.

01:05And so I think there is a lot of ambiguity at the moment

01:08in terms of, well, principally, what does that mean?

01:10How many days exactly in the office?

01:12Yeah, well, technically, I guess, principally, it could be three-two.

01:16It could be, and that's, you know, I think it would be great

01:18if they came out with greater clarity around this,

01:21because I think then it wouldn't be as much of an issue.

01:24Look, most people don't want to work from home five days a week,

01:27and those that do elect to do that in jobs that support that,

01:31the research shows that they tend to do that effectively.

01:33So I think we need a little bit more clarity here.

01:36OK, so you've touched on this a couple of times,

01:38but I'd like you to go into more detail on this now,

01:41because this is vigorously debated around the countries.

01:46What is the actual evidence that you refer to there

01:51on what happens with productivity and working from home?

01:55There have been a number of studies, obviously, in fact,

01:57hundreds that have been done around the world now since the pandemic.

02:01And on the whole, what the studies show is this three-two model

02:04supports a productivity increase of around 3% to 5%.

02:08But there are also studies that have been done previous to COVID

02:12that showed that working from home

02:14had a dramatic effect on productivity, far more than that 5%.

02:19So what we need to be really conscious of

02:21when we're looking at these types of policies is what's the industry,

02:24what's the type of work that's being done, and who are the workforce?

02:28Because we know that flexible work policies

02:30increase participation in the workforce

02:32for a number of people who wouldn't otherwise be able to participate.

02:36It reduces the cost of housing employees for employers in the city

02:41and a whole range of other benefits as well.

02:43So I think we need to be really conscious of that

02:46rather than just a one-size-fits-all mandate.

02:49Some people might be a bit sceptical.

02:51You mentioned kind of studies have shown a 3% to 5% increase.

02:54Can you go into any more detail on that

02:56and give us some specific examples?

03:00What people find when they work at least some of the time from home,

03:04and we've seen this, you know, across a number of...

03:07..you know, hundreds of studies now,

03:08is that they can focus and concentrate better.

03:10A lot of employees now are working in open plan offices,

03:13which have also conclusively shown have a very deleterious effect

03:18on productivity, on the ability to concentrate,

03:21and in fact can lead to less collaboration,

03:23which was not their intention in the first place.

03:25So you've got people who are commuting less,

03:28you know, there's less interruption, less distraction

03:30and a greater ability to focus.

03:32And for a lot of knowledge workers now,

03:34that is the key part of your job.

03:36And my own research has shown

03:37that when people can't focus and concentrate

03:40just to get their job done,

03:41then there are a whole range of negative outcomes

03:44for both that individual and for the organisation.

03:47And is it your observation

03:50that a move by New South Wales like this,

03:53if it's more than 3-2 and it's not exactly clear,

03:56it might actually open an opportunity for other states to step in

04:00and try to take that workforce from New South Wales?

04:04Well, I think we've seen Victoria have already come out

04:06and made a comment today about that, haven't they?

04:08And in other industries, we've seen this happen as well.

04:10When Apple put out a return to the office mandate,

04:14Atlassian came out and said,

04:15well, hey, any Apple workers, if you'd like to come and work with us?

04:18So, this has become already a competitive point of difference

04:22for employers in terms of being able to offer location flexibility

04:26or time-based flexibility for their employees.

04:29So, I expect that will continue.

04:31What about the arguments about workplace culture,

04:34encouraging a really good workplace culture with your team

04:38if people aren't actually coming into work,

04:40and the benefits for younger workers

04:43if they're in closer proximity to older workers

04:46that you would not get with working from home?

04:50Yeah, there are clear benefits for being in the office

04:52around team cohesion, networking,

04:54learning opportunities, relationship building.

04:56And as I said, most people don't want to work from home five days a week.

05:00But what we know is that to get those benefits,

05:02we don't need to be in the office five days a week.

05:05So, if you're a younger employee,

05:07I would certainly recommend that you spend more time in the office

05:09for those learning and relationship-building opportunities.

05:13But again, there's a wide variety of people in the workforce,

05:16and coming in some of the week is enough to achieve those outcomes

05:20without it being every single day or four days a week.

05:24OK, and so can you see things changing significantly in this field now

05:29with a push like this on from New South Wales?

05:32Or do you believe that the work-from-home situation

05:36will continue to be a pretty noticeable aspect

05:42of the employment scene in Australia now?

05:46Absolutely, and I think that will continue.

05:49We've already seen different types of mandates like this

05:51around the world over the last couple of years

05:53haven't worked effectively.

05:55There was a large study done in the US

05:57on companies that did mandate a five-day return to the office last year,

06:01and those companies did not perform any better

06:04in terms of their performance and their stock price outcomes.

06:07So, this is a competitive difference for employers.

06:11People want this.

06:12There are many advantages,

06:13both for individuals, organisations and for the environment.

06:17And so I don't think it's going to change anytime soon.

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