Prior to the Congressional recess, during a Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing, Sen. Cory Booker (D-NJ) questioned Deputy Secretary of State Kurt Campbell about efforts to negotiate a treaty with Saudi Arabia to outcompete China in the Middle East, and struggles to fill ambassador roles.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Senator Booker.
00:01Thanks so much.
00:02I want to pick up on some of the themes that my friend Tim Kaine brought up, but Mr. Secretary,
00:09so grateful that you're here.
00:11But I just want to pick up on something, because this concern about China and its dealings
00:17with Saudi Arabia.
00:18Can we just be specific for a second?
00:19We are in negotiations with Saudi Arabia on a treaty right now, correct?
00:26So I think it'd be fair to say that we're in deep negotiations with the Saudis.
00:34The ultimate manifestation, there are many features of this.
00:37Many permutations.
00:38I understand.
00:39I don't want to take all my time doing that.
00:40I guess what I'm trying to say is, when I'm in the region, when I'm sitting with leaders
00:44there, they want to deal with the United States of America.
00:48They want deeper ties, deeper relationships.
00:51They know that from technology, to economy, to military, we're their preferred dance partner.
00:57But when we don't engage with them, they're looking for other dance partners to hedge
01:02their bets.
01:03That's a fair statement, correct?
01:04Now when it comes to our competition with China, if we find a way to move forward with
01:09Saudi Arabia, we get a lot of advantages by locking them in to things that benefit us.
01:19While China and Russia are trying to undermine our currency, we secure the dollar being used
01:24for oil trade.
01:26While we have a fierce competition going on militarily, we have shown that when we lean
01:32into partnerships, not only with our competitors in Russia or China, but even with our competition
01:37for military sales with European countries, we lock Saudi Arabia in.
01:40And then when it comes to the economy or technology transfers, we've been able to use our partnerships
01:47with other countries to box out the Chinese.
01:50And so this is a time that I see, if we're really talking about a global competition,
01:56to pick our partners and further lock in American advantages.
02:01Wouldn't you say that that's the opportunity that we're at least seeking in these negotiations?
02:06Senator, that's exactly the strategy that we've attempted.
02:10I think it has borne the most fruit in the Indo-Pacific.
02:16We talked about this earlier, that's the Quad, that's AUKUS, that's the trilateral with Japan
02:22and South Korea, mending fences, it's bringing the Philippines in, it's working with Southeast
02:28Asia, with Thailand, with Vietnam, with India.
02:30So whether you're talking about India, whether you're talking about Japan, whether you're
02:34talking about Australia, whether you're talking about European allies, whether you're talking
02:39about Africa or South America, people are looking for strong partnerships.
02:44And when we step up, people prefer to deal with us because China has a really bad reputation
02:51in these countries.
02:53Is it correct?
02:54So, look, I would say that, you know, a job like mine, probably a job like yours, there's
03:01lots of stuff that could get you down.
03:05But I will tell you that the thing that has encouraged me everywhere I've gone is that
03:10the demand signal for American engagement is high.
03:14And even though they have doubts, sometimes I can, I sometimes sense you walk into a meeting
03:19with a leader, he's trying to size up, like, you know, are these guys committed and are
03:24they going to be there?
03:26If you're able to show them that you're going to engage with sincerity and that you're not
03:30coming alone, you're working with other agencies in the U.S. government and with other partners
03:36globally that believe in the things that you are advancing, you can have a real impact
03:43on the ground.
03:44And I've seen that throughout all the, one of the things that, in my confirmation here,
03:48you asked me, you said, Kurt, don't just do the Indo-Pacific, go to Africa.
03:53So I've been twice.
03:54I have found those countries are thirsty for a deeper American engagement.
04:00I intend to do everything I can to support that.
04:02So I do think we tend to underestimate ourselves.
04:06Our value proposition is strong, military, technologically, education, everything.
04:13And I just think our most important thing is to have confidence.
04:17And my time is running out, and music to my ears to hear you say all that.
04:22I guess two frustrations, one not on you, on us.
04:26I have seen the power of great ambassadors in the global south to extend the American
04:33influence connection opportunity.
04:36I mean, if you look at Kenya, it's a great example of what an ambassador can, so the
04:40fact that we have so many vacancies is to me stunning.
04:45It is shooting ourselves in the foot in many ways, undermining our ability to compete.
04:51It's like trying to, Stanford trying to play Notre Dame and benching three or four of its
04:55players and playing with a shorthand.
04:57I just want to add to that because I know other people have said it.
04:59But for the final point I want to bring up here is what is frustrating me when I do travel
05:06to Africa is to see how obviously important we see our military strength in trying to
05:13counter what we're seeing in the Sahel, terrorism, like nobody can argue with that.
05:18But the thing that inspires me the most is when I visit and see the power of U.S. investments,
05:25not just in Feed the Future or PEPFAR, but business investments and infrastructure investments.
05:32The unbelievable, just the libido corridor investment is to me how you really do counter
05:41what China is trying to do and the urgencies for that.
05:45And so I guess what I want to just have you finish on is something as simple as the Development
05:51Finance Corporation, which is an incredible tool to compete with, and Congress is going
05:57to be considering reauthorizing the BUILD Act, which created the DFC.
06:02Just for the record, are there key, can you express the urgency for something like this,
06:07as well as improvements that we could be making in the program as it stands right now?
06:10Great.
06:11Thank you and great questions.
06:12Can I just build on a point that you made?
06:15When you're in a job like mine, you go to these embassies and you're constantly evaluating
06:21leadership there.
06:22I was just in Gabon.
06:25Not a lot of Americans go to visit.
06:27First-time ambassador, probably one of the most effective young women, and I watched
06:34her engage her team in a State Department occasionally can have highly hierarchical,
06:43these guys, young people, first tour, pitching in, feeling they could talk in meetings, hugely
06:49impressed, and small amount of assistance, but taking it to the maximum, right?
06:56So I left there, just like when you went to Kenya, incredibly, unbelievably motivated,
07:03wanting to do more and realizing that we can get that done.
07:07The DFC is an unusually effective tool.
07:11It is incredibly effective.
07:12Senator, before you came, I got to be the person to do the groundbreaking of a major
07:19DFC initiative in Senegal.
07:21It was sensational because unlike Chinese projects that they bring their own people
07:27and their own equipment.
07:28I think we're going to have to leave it at that.
07:30I'm sorry.
07:31Oh.
07:32You're, I give two extra minutes, but.
07:34Okay, so I would just, so I would completely support this.
07:37This is incredibly important.
07:39DFC, what you need to do is leverage financing.
07:42They need more leverage.
07:45Like all finance institutions, five to one, six to one, seven to one.
07:48That would help.
07:49Thanks.