It’s been six days since a 20-year-old gunman attempted to assassinate Donald Trump during a campaign rally in Pennsylvania. The nation was shocked when shots rang out and the former President was swarmed by Secret Service agents while grasping his ear. The shooter, Thomas Matthew Crooks, was taken out within seconds of the failed attempt. Critics have set their sights on Trump’s security, wondering why the rally wasn’t secure and how the shooter was able to fire off shots. Law&Crime’s Jesse Weber takes a look at seven bizarre details surrounding the attempted assassination of Donald Trump.
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00There are many strange details regarding the shooting of former President Donald Trump,
00:19and a lot has come out days afterwards.
00:22We're going to break down some of the more bizarre details and unknowns from this past
00:27week.
00:28For The Sidebar, presented by Law & Crime, I'm Jesse Weber.
00:35It has been quite a week so far in the aftermath of the attempted assassination of former President
00:40Donald Trump out in Butler, Pennsylvania, when a shooter, identified as 20-year-old
00:46Thomas Matthew Crooks, opened fire, ultimately wounding Donald Trump, critically injuring
00:52two others, David Dutch and James Copenhaver, although they are reportedly in stable condition.
00:58But also tragically killing 50-year-old Corey Comparatore, and he was apparently shielding
01:04his wife and children from gunfire that day.
01:08By the way, I have to tell you, there were GoFundMe pages that were set up for both Corey
01:13and for the Butler victims in general.
01:15I want you to listen to this.
01:16Corey's, at the time of this recording, is almost at $1.3 million raised, where there
01:22was a goal of just $7,000.
01:25And over $5.4 million has been raised for the families in general, in total.
01:30That is incredible, incredible support.
01:34But there are a lot of weird aspects to this shooting as the FBI is investigating this.
01:41And to be clear, this is a rapidly developing story, an evolving story.
01:45So what we're discussing with you right now is based on the information we currently have.
01:50Things could always change.
01:52But let's talk about this.
01:53We have been breaking down this story, this shooting, the details all week.
01:57And we kind of want to summarize what we know at this point, the outstanding questions,
02:02what we can expect.
02:03So first, let's lay out how on earth this happened.
02:09I mean, authorities say that Crooks was able to scale a building that was on the outside
02:14security perimeter of this pro-Trump rally.
02:16The American Glass Research Building sets up an AR-15 style rifle about 150 yards away
02:24from Trump's podium, where he was giving a speech, and opens fire within minutes of Trump's
02:28speech at about 6.10, 6.11 p.m.
02:31And you know, that's a little bit old, that chart.
02:34That chart's a couple of months old.
02:35And if you want to really see something that's said, take a look at what happened.
02:47He's on top of the roof.
02:49Don't go over there.
02:50He's on the roof, buddy.
02:52He's dead.
02:53I've just seen his hair blow up, and they shot him in the head.
02:57He's dead.
02:58Holy s**t.
02:59USA!
03:00USA!
03:01USA!
03:02Now, this shooter was instantly neutralized by a Secret Service counter-sniper team.
03:08And I gotta hands off to the Secret Service, who immediately, as soon as the shots rang
03:12out, swarmed onto Donald Trump to protect him, shield him from any continuing gunfire.
03:18You want to talk about heroes, you want to talk about selfless actions, that's a prime
03:22example.
03:23Now, authorities, they reportedly discovered a remote detonator or transmitter on Crook's
03:28body, as well as remote-controlled explosives, a bulletproof vest, fully loaded magazines,
03:34and a drone in his car, which was parked nearby.
03:37And investigators also found another vest, explosive materials, and a 3D printer at his
03:42home in Bethel Park, Pennsylvania, so that's about 50 miles away.
03:46He had apparently been living there with his parents.
03:48And according to CNN, a joint FBI and Department of Homeland Security bulletin has revealed
03:54that Crook's had been receiving multiple packages in the months leading up to the shooting,
04:00including those marked as possibly containing hazardous materials.
04:04So first, let's start off with a major strange aspect.
04:08Big question.
04:09How was this suspected shooter even able to get into position, when reporting indicates
04:14that both spectators and law enforcement at the event were aware of him?
04:20Let me expand upon that.
04:21There were reports that people saw this shooter beforehand.
04:24There's even video that has circulated online of him seemingly checking out the roofs, scoping
04:29out the area.
04:30There are those who say they saw him with a duffel bag and range finder.
04:34Then there are reportedly people who saw him climbing the roof.
04:38For example, Ben Macer told KDKA that he saw the guy move from roof to roof and told an
04:45officer that this shooter was on the roof.
04:47When I turned around to go back to where I was, it was when the gunshots started and
04:51then it was just chaos and we all came running away and that was that.
04:55Now apparently investigators believe that Crook's had also used a bike to check out
05:00the Butler site.
05:01And according to the New York Post, a witness saw that bike around 40 minutes before the
05:06shooting.
05:07It's being reported that senators held a briefing with top Secret Service officials, including
05:11the director of the Secret Service, Kim Cheadle, who we'll talk a lot about.
05:14And one senator, John Barrasso of Wyoming, reported that more than an hour before the
05:20shooting occurred, the Secret Service had identified Crook's as a character of suspicion
05:25because they saw him with that range finder and that bag.
05:29And then, according to Fox News, sources say 10 minutes before Trump walked on that
05:34stage, the Secret Service supposedly changed their assessment.
05:37Instead of considering Crook's suspicious, they'd apparently upgraded his status to a
05:42threat.
05:43And yet, despite all of that, the ex-president was still allowed to step onto that stage.
05:48Why?
05:49That's a big question, right?
05:51According to another Fox report, the Secret Service agent in charge was actually on the
05:56phone with local and state police about this threat, about this guy, while the shooting
06:01was taking place.
06:04There were also reports that a sniper from a local tactical team had snapped a photograph
06:09of the gunman, saw him looking through a range finder – again, this is before the shooting
06:12– and then radioed that information in to a command post.
06:16ABC News reported that the shooter was spotted by Secret Service counter-sniper teams 20
06:22minutes before the gunshots rang out.
06:24And then there's reporting that a Butler Township police officer actually confronted
06:29the shooter.
06:30Apparently, was hoisted up to that roof.
06:32Crooks apparently spots him, points the weapon at the officer, who then lets go of his grip
06:37and drops eight feet to the ground.
06:39Now, Butler County Sheriff Michael Sloop defended this officer's action, saying he probably
06:45saved Donald Trump's life by delaying what could have been a fatal shot.
06:49Quote, can you imagine 10 seconds before that, that the president was looking straight ahead
06:54and where that bullet could have potentially landed?
06:58So in total, the reporting indicates that Crooks first came on law enforcement's radar
07:03about – and this is an approximation – but seems to be about three hours before the shooting.
07:09He was apparently walking by the magnetometers carrying a range finder at one point.
07:14The bottom line, how come authorities didn't stop Crooks, and more importantly, didn't
07:20stop Donald Trump from getting on that stage?
07:23And what complicates this, of course, is that the Secret Service director, Kimberly
07:27Cheadle, who I mentioned, seemed to at first say it was the responsibility of local law
07:31enforcement to sweep and secure the building that the shooter was perched on top of, although
07:37she has since backtracked from those comments.
07:39There's also reporting that police were inside the building, but not on the roof.
07:44And she also told ABC News that there may have been a danger to post a sniper team on
07:50the roof where the gunman was located.
07:52Quote, that building in particular has a sloped roof at its highest point, and so,
07:56you know, there's a safety factor that would be considered there that we wouldn't want
08:00to put somebody up on a sloped roof.
08:03But that decision and these comments are facing a lot of scrutiny.
08:06In fact, one law enforcement official said that the sloped roof could have created a
08:11visual block to the counter snipers, and that a tree may have prevented one of the sniper
08:15teams from seeing the gunman as he climbed onto the roof.
08:18Now, I had the chance to speak with former Secret Service agent Charles Marino about
08:22this.
08:23And by the way, he also acted at one point in time as senior law enforcement advisor
08:27to the secretary of the Department of Homeland Security.
08:29Let's hear what he had to say.
08:30The Secret Service has the statutory responsibility to protect the former president.
08:37They also have the responsibility of not only creating, but also effectively implementing
08:43the overall security plan for the venue.
08:47Let me state, this includes the inner perimeter, the middle perimeter, and the outer perimeter,
08:53because they also have the responsibility of requesting state and local law enforcement
08:59assets, as they do throughout the entire country, to help implement that security plan.
09:06So the Secret Service owns this.
09:09They got to take the hit on this.
09:11It was their job to make sure that this building was taken out of play.
09:16Talk to me how to make sense of the idea that he was in their sights for an hour before
09:22they saw him as a person of interest or a suspicious character.
09:25And yet Donald Trump was allowed to take that stage.
09:28Well, as we know, whenever you have a catastrophic failure like the Secret Service had on Saturday,
09:35it's going to expose other failures in the system.
09:40And the one area that we're going to find additional failures in is going to be communication.
09:46So let's go through the timeline that you just set up very well.
09:50If we're talking about an hour out and thinking that there was a threat that's walking around
09:57with a range finder that's being armed, that person's got to be located either by state
10:03and local law enforcement and then interviewed by the protective intelligence teams that
10:07are on the site.
10:08If that person can't be found, that information needs to be communicated to the protective
10:14detail, because you may not want to bring the former president that far out in advance
10:20to the site at all.
10:22You may want to take him somewhere else, like a local police department, for him to hang
10:26out or maybe he stays on his aircraft.
10:30There's a number of options.
10:31Now, if we're talking about the 10 minute out scenario, where you're saying the Secret
10:36Service is now confirmed that this is not suspicious person, but an actual threat, then
10:42the natural question is, why does the detail bring him to stage?
10:47Why do they allow him to go up to the podium?
10:51And that's where there's going to be a lot of questions regarding the communication flow.
10:56Was it sent at all?
10:57Was the information sent at all to the Secret Service detail?
11:01Was it sent, but not broadly enough and transmitted to them?
11:05Or was it ignored?
11:07And was there a decision to say, you know, we're going to take them to the stage anyway?
11:12Now, that being said, Sheetal said that no assets from the rally were diverted on the
11:17day that Trump was shot, even though apparently there were other events in the state that
11:21required Secret Service protection.
11:23And she also said that there was no truth to the rumor.
11:26And she also said that there was no truth to the rumors that the former president's
11:29detail had asked for more resources and was denied and asked for accusations that the
11:34Secret Service role in this event was somehow partisan.
11:38Sheetal pushed back on that, saying the Secret Service is not political.
11:41Safety is not political.
11:43And she also added that the Secret Service is tasked with the tremendous responsibility
11:47of protecting the current and former leaders of our democracy.
11:50And it is a responsibility that I take incredibly seriously and I am committed to fulfilling
11:55that mission.
11:56By the way, there have been calls for her to resign and she has indicated she will not
11:59resign from her role.
12:00We're going to talk about that a lot more and some more of the potential fallout for
12:04the Secret Service.
12:05We'll get to that in a little bit.
12:07Hey, let me just take a quick pause from Sidebar to thank Morgan & Morgan for sponsoring today's
12:12Law & Crime YouTube Takeover, America's largest personal injury law firm.
12:17Look, if you're in that position where you're hurt and you need legal representation, this
12:21may be the firm you want in your corner.
12:23Specialists in this area, a firm that has secured verdicts and settlements in the multi-millions
12:28across this country, a firm that doesn't settle for lowball offers, a firm where there is
12:32no upfront fee, you only pay them if you win, and a firm that makes the whole process
12:37so easy for their clients because from starting your claim to uploading documents to talking
12:42to your legal team, it can all be done from your smartphone.
12:45So if you've ever been injured, you can easily start a claim by going to ForThePeople.com
12:50slash YouTube Takeover.
12:56Before we even get into the next area, the apparent motive in this case, or what could
13:01be the motive, there is one more detail I have to get into.
13:05Why didn't the sniper team immediately take the shooter out?
13:09I mentioned all the different aspects of that, how they might have seen him beforehand, was
13:13there an opportunity to take him out.
13:15So I want to play you some of my conversation this past week with former sheriff's deputy
13:20and SWAT member, Chad Ayers, and also former FBI agent, Bobby Chacon.
13:27Enough circling around the internet that they asked for permission to take the shot.
13:32That is absolutely false.
13:34In this type of situation, they do not have to ask for any type of authority to take a
13:38shot or utilize deadly force in this type of situation.
13:42When you are assigned and you've got a former president on there and someone is laying on
13:45the roof with a long gun, the first opportunity they have, they're going to take that.
13:50So again, I don't want to money more than a quarterback or second this counter sniper
13:53unit.
13:55There's the possibility that maybe the angle and the slant of the roof, they couldn't get
13:59a visual on him until he got to a certain position.
14:01Now I think that when you look at the video of the counter sniper who took the shot, they're
14:07looking in the direction of that building.
14:08And I'm pretty sure that's because they're hearing radio traffic saying somebody's on
14:12the roof because there was some chaotic situation over there.
14:15You saw the video of people saying, woman saying, he's on the roof, he's got a gun.
14:18I'm sure that was put over comms.
14:20When you look at that roof, it's sloped away.
14:22And I don't think the counter counter sniper guys could actually see the shooter yet.
14:26He was crawling up.
14:27He was on his belly.
14:28And he and then what happened was an officer confronted him and they were treated.
14:33He should he turned around with his rifle towards the officer.
14:36What that did was make the guy move quicker.
14:38Then he popped up really fast over that peak and started shooting.
14:42That's when I understand because you see them looking there and they're probably saying,
14:46I see the roof.
14:47I don't see anybody.
14:48I see the roof.
14:49I don't see anybody.
14:50That's because he's behind that slight.
14:51And then he pops up and then he starts firing and then they fire back.
14:54A couple of things to note about that.
14:56So it seems that the counter sniper team that we had seen pictures of that were circulated
15:00in the media, this was the team that we had thought had neutralized the suspected shooter.
15:06It turns out they weren't the ones who took the actual shot that killed the gunman.
15:12This was apparently a different counter sniper team.
15:15But again, Bobby could be 100 percent right that there was a visual obstruction in their
15:19way and that's why they didn't act quicker.
15:21And by the way, we are not putting blame on them whatsoever.
15:25They were able to neutralize this target immediately.
15:29There is one more thing I have to mention as well.
15:31According to Brian Enten from News Nation, and this is on Twitter or X, quote, sources
15:36within the Secret Service say the working theory right now is the Secret Service sniper
15:42did not initially shoot Crooks because the sniper thought Crooks was a police officer
15:48on the roof.
15:50OK, so another possible explanation for what happened here.
15:54Now, I want to talk about one of the strangest aspects of all of this motive, right?
16:02Why would Crooks supposedly do this?
16:05And that is where we get into this whole other territory, because it's so weird.
16:09It's so weird.
16:10The FBI is poring over his cell phone history, his online search history, digital footprint.
16:16And there appears to be, at the time of this recording, no clear motive, no apparent political
16:22or religious ideology or motivation.
16:25And as far as we know from reporting, there's no manifesto, there's no note, there's no
16:29writings, there's no social media posts that outline a motive or plan here.
16:34And that includes interviews, by the way, because apparently the FBI conducted over
16:38200 interviews with family, neighbors, co-workers.
16:42They can't find anything.
16:45Now, there is reporting that Crooks did conduct searches online about major depression disorder.
16:51According to ABC News, Crooks had been registered as a Republican voter, but a $15 donation
16:57to this progressive group was also labeled and recorded under Thomas Crooks.
17:02This was back in January of 2021.
17:05Reporting also indicates he was a loner.
17:06He enjoyed gaming and computers.
17:08He had been maybe severely bullied in the past.
17:12Interestingly, one of his apparent instructors at a community college where he graduated
17:16in May said his homework responses were thoughtful, his email responses were polite.
17:22This is according to Reuters.
17:24So it seems the main theme is no one saw this coming.
17:27It was all unexpected.
17:29At least that's what's coming out right now.
17:32Now I should tell you, at one point there was reporting that Crooks had allegedly posted
17:37a message on the gaming platform Steam before the shooting, where he supposedly wrote,
17:42July 13th will be my premiere.
17:45Watch as it unfolds.
17:47But now it appears, according to the FBI, that that was fake.
17:50So we're still working on confirming whether or not that was a legitimate post from Thomas
17:56Matthew Crooks.
17:57However, there is also reporting that Crooks had searched online not only about the Trump
18:03rally in Butler, but also about the Democratic National Convention.
18:09And then on the day of the shooting, he searched Butler Farm photos and a nearby gun shop in
18:14Bethel Park.
18:15There's also reporting he was searching for images of Trump, President Biden, other famous
18:20figures.
18:21So what were his targets?
18:22What would he have done if he survived that day?
18:26Something to think about.
18:27And investigators say that Crooks had visited that Butler site at least two times, including
18:33on the day of the shooting, earlier in the day, and then left and came back.
18:36So possibly showing this preparation.
18:38In fact, ABC News also reported that someone using the suspect's name, so presumably the
18:44suspect himself, had signed up for that Butler rally a week before the shooting.
18:49Preparation.
18:50Premeditation.
18:51And actually, with that in mind, CNN is also reporting that Crooks had visited the shooting
18:56range the day before the rally.
18:59They also say he went to Home Depot where he purchased the ladder, then a local gun
19:03store in Bethel Park to buy 50 rounds of ammunition.
19:06In fact, when they turned over his body after he was killed, they found a receipt for Home
19:12Depot.
19:13Now, here is again former FBI agent Bobby Chacon talking about this idea of a motive
19:19and how strange it is we can't find one yet.
19:23You know, there's an implied motivation.
19:25He wanted Donald Trump dead because he didn't want Donald Trump to become the president.
19:29I think that that's kind of an implied thing.
19:31I mean, he might have hated Donald Trump for other reasons, but it's hard to see that he
19:35took this action for any other reason other than he wanted to stop Donald Trump from becoming
19:40the next president.
19:41I mean, he might have been he might have had an agreement with Trump for other past actions
19:45that Trump may have taken while he was president the first time.
19:49But this is a political assassination.
19:51And normally those things have that implied motive of you want to stop this person's political
19:55ambitions.
19:56You don't normally find a lot of political ideology in the person's lifestyle and his
20:01background and his conversations with people and his associations with people and organizations.
20:06And so normally this they are ideologues and they are hell bent on carrying out an act
20:12of violence in a political act of violence.
20:15It's normally very apparent from looking at their background and here they're not finding
20:18that.
20:19So, you know, there's that.
20:20And like I said, there's an implied motivation, but it could be, you know, he was just out
20:25for fame.
20:26But oftentimes we also see indications of that in his background.
20:29You know, he wanted to become famous because, you know, he because killing Trump obviously
20:32would make him famous or, you know, because we had like, you know, different motivations
20:37when Hinckley shot Reagan.
20:38It was because of his fascination with Jodie Foster.
20:40It would it thought he would maybe famous.
20:42The person that killed John Lennon actually was a big John Lennon fan.
20:46So there's sometimes these people have these ideas in their head that this act I'm going
20:50to carry out this act and that I would be viewed as this other person or in this way.
20:55So, you know, that's more of a mental health expert question.
20:59Like, could it and what is it in his background might indicate that.
21:02But yeah, you're right.
21:03I mean, a political motivated attack normally has some kind of he would be more active politically,
21:10either online or in person, and we're just not finding that right now.
21:14Apparently drives to the rally in Butler, Pennsylvania, parks the car, uses the ladder
21:19to get to the roof of the adjacent American Glass Research Building, sets up and opens
21:24fire.
21:25So, Bobby, when we talk about what his motivation was and we see law enforcement trying to set
21:29up a timeline here, what do you take away from that?
21:33Well, the young man was very determined.
21:35It clearly he's determined to do to carry out this attack with all of these steps he's
21:40taking this what we call pre-event planning and pre-event activity, which which begs the
21:46question of why you're not why we're not seeing more rhetoric, more associations in
21:51his background that would have led somebody to believe that he was going to do this.
21:55If he was able to keep all of this rage and carrying a gun to a rooftop and shooting into
22:01a crowd and taking practice, practicing the day before, I mean, you are determined there's
22:06a lot of rage there.
22:07And and to have that rage not manifest itself in prior behavior or prior acts or prior discussions
22:14is really unusual.
22:15Now, although we reported that it doesn't seem based on his cell phone data, his computer
22:19data, the searches, his online activity, that there are any outward political ideologies
22:24or religious motivations.
22:27But what also makes this weird about no apparent motive, no red flags, nobody seeing anything
22:31in his behavior, nothing from his online activity, Crooks was apparently also a nursing home
22:36worker.
22:37He had no criminal history.
22:39His employer, Bethel Park Skilled Nursing and Rehabilitation Center, said his background
22:44check was clean.
22:45They were shocked.
22:46Crooks was, as I mentioned, living with his parents in this suburban neighborhood in Bethel
22:50Park, about 50 miles away from the shooting.
22:53And I'll tell you what, let's talk about the shooter's parents for a minute, because there's
22:55a lot of questions there, too.
22:57So we're talking about Mary Elizabeth Crooks, Matthew Brian Crooks, again, of Bethel Park,
23:02Pennsylvania.
23:03They are licensed professional counselors.
23:05A neighbor described them as nice people.
23:07Another neighbor came out and told the Crooks, please don't blame yourself.
23:11It was not your fault.
23:14Reporting indicates that these parents have been cooperating with law enforcement.
23:17In fact, Matthew Crooks apparently told CNN that he was trying to figure out what the
23:21hell is going on and that he would wait until he talks to law enforcement before speaking
23:26publicly about his son.
23:28But it does become a question of how much they knew about what was going on with him.
23:33And it becomes interesting because it was reported this week that the Crooks, the shooter's
23:39parents, called local police hours before the shooting.
23:44They said they were concerned that he was missing.
23:48We don't know more about what was said exactly and whether or not it had anything to do with
23:52the shooting or that he had access to the weapon.
23:56And we also don't know what steps police took afterwards from that call.
24:00But this is where it's important, because it wasn't just that Crooks had been living
24:04with his family.
24:05Authorities have indicated that Crooks used this AR-15 style rifle to commit the shooting
24:10using 5.56 ammunition and that this gun was purchased legally by Crooks' father, Matthew.
24:17Now, I've seen some reporting that the purchase was possibly six months ago.
24:21I've seen other reporting indicating it was further back years ago.
24:24But the gun was apparently registered to the father.
24:27And in fact, it reportedly was one of 20 guns that were registered with Mr. Crooks, the
24:32father here, all kept in the home.
24:34And my understanding, no permit or registration is required under Pennsylvania law.
24:38That's my understanding.
24:39And my understanding also is that Pennsylvania doesn't require gun owners to store their
24:44weapons safely.
24:46So it's also being reported that Thomas Crooks, the perceived shooter here, and his father
24:51were members of a local shooting club called the Claritin Sportsman's Club.
24:55But here's the question in all of this.
24:57Are the parents legally responsible, especially when you consider what was found at the home?
25:02Remember, I mentioned all those materials that were found in the home, the packages.
25:05Why do I ask that?
25:06You remember Jennifer and James Crumbly out in Michigan, the parents of the Oxford High
25:10School shooter?
25:11They were convicted of involuntary manslaughter.
25:13They purchased the weapon in that case that was used in the mass shooting.
25:17And they were also convicted for their failure to properly store the weapon, keep it out
25:21of their son's hands.
25:22The jury said in that case, it was foreseeable that that could happen.
25:25Now, of course, there were some egregious facts in that case, right?
25:29The idea that on the day of the shooting, they were called into the school because of
25:32alarming drawings of their son, but they didn't take him out of school.
25:34They didn't use a cable lock on the gun.
25:36They didn't tell the school about the gun that the shooter told his family.
25:39He heard voices that the shooter had asked his father, James, for help to take him to
25:43the doctor.
25:44But James apparently told him to just suck it up.
25:46So we have some really bad facts in that case to establish that it was foreseeable.
25:50But what about this case?
25:51Are we talking the same thing?
25:53Is it different?
25:54Well, talking Michigan, I spoke to Charlie Langton this week, and this is a Michigan
25:58attorney, legal analyst, anchor for Fox to Detroit, WWJ News Radio.
26:03And I asked him about whether the parents could face criminal charges in any way.
26:08I'll give you the short answer is no.
26:09And I looked at the very same thing because it struck me.
26:12The first thing that struck me was that the father in the crumbly case bought the gun
26:17for Ethan Crumbly, the shooter.
26:19And then the father in this case bought the gun for his son, the Trump shooter.
26:23But there's a big difference here.
26:25Ethan Crumbly, the shooter at the Oxford High School, was 15 years old.
26:29But that's not the case here.
26:31He was 20 years old.
26:33An adult who under, as I understand Pennsylvania law, I don't practice there, but it's similar
26:38to Michigan, is that there's no duty on the on the part of a parent to take care of an
26:45otherwise healthy 20 year old.
26:49You don't believe, even though he was living with them, right, that the parents have any
26:53kind of responsibility for storing the gun or for what happens with that gun, right?
26:59No, because there's a superseding cause here is that the kid, the kid, the 20 year old
27:03is an adult.
27:04The 20 year old took the gun and and and shot at Trump and killed other people.
27:11And let's assume for the moment that the father was grossly negligent, although I don't know
27:17how having 20 legal guns purchased legally, presumably stored legally, although I don't
27:23know that, but assuming all that was, I don't even know how you're going to get over the
27:27first prong of recklessness or certainly gross negligence.
27:32And there's no legal duty imposed like unlike Crumbly.
27:37See Crumbly, you've got to go the extra way when you've got a minor.
27:40The parents have a duty.
27:42And if you breach that duty, then yes, you cause the injury.
27:45It is foreseeable, as you just said, that a minor might get a hold of an illegally stored
27:50gun, especially a minor with some mental illness, and then go out and kill someone.
27:55This is not the case here.
27:56I don't read that into the jury instruction that you've got in in Pennsylvania.
28:01You know, in the Crumbly case, you was very clear, at least to me and clear to the jury,
28:06that it was foreseeable that not only he gain access to the gun, but he would commit a school
28:10shooting in that neighborhood.
28:13Isn't there something for the legal analysis to say this happened 50 miles away?
28:18So when you talk about the location of the crime, isn't, does that ever come into a factor
28:22that this wasn't somebody who took out a weapon and used it at a school, but the allegation
28:28was is that he took the weapon and then traveled 50 miles to a political rally, an open fire
28:34on the former president of the United States.
28:37Would you say that matters in the foreseeability analysis?
28:42Yeah, but it helps.
28:44It helps.
28:45It helps the parents of the guy.
28:47He might have.
28:48Sure.
28:49Yeah, no, absolutely.
28:50If they did have knowledge that he was building explosives, if they did have knowledge that
28:53he could gain access to the gun, if they even knew what he was planning to do but didn't
28:57do anything, could then this be a different kind of case?
29:01Yes, I think it could be a different case.
29:04And the facts that were changing, because we're speculating now, if the dad or mother
29:09knew that this guy was building up bombs or acquiring weapons and acquiring ammunition,
29:16and maybe I need a little more facts here, but maybe he suggested he didn't like Trump.
29:22He did.
29:23He didn't like politicians or something like that.
29:25I could see a better case being made for the prosecution.
29:30Now I'm going to move on to another point.
29:31Did Crooks act alone?
29:33Did he have help?
29:34Was there a second shooter?
29:36The reason this has come up, or one of the reasons, is because Katalin Grigoris, director
29:41of the National Center for Media Forensics at the University of Colorado in Denver, and
29:45Cole Whitecotton, senior professional research associate at the same institution, they analyzed
29:51audio of the shooting and they concluded that the first three shots were consistent with
29:55alleged weapon A, the next five were consistent with alleged weapon B, and the final acoustic
30:01impulse was emitted by a possible weapon C. And the audio also confirms that the shooter
30:06was on a rooftop about 393 to 492 feet away.
30:10Now some have said, is that weapon C from another shooter?
30:13Was it another Secret Service sniper?
30:15And according to the Washington Post, two audio experts, Rob Mayer of Montana State
30:20University and Stephen Beck of Beck Audio Forensics, counted a total of 10 gunshots.
30:26So the first eight shots had similar acoustic characteristics.
30:30They were fired within six seconds.
30:32Then there was a ninth shot from an apparent different area, and 16 seconds later there
30:36was a tenth shot.
30:37Now the last two, they say, had different audio characteristics from the first eight,
30:43but they also say that audio in and of itself can't tell you exactly where the shots come
30:47from.
30:48There is something to note about this, though, and as Fox News reported, there is that photo
30:53of the pair of U.S. Secret Service counter-snipers.
30:55They aren't the ones who apparently killed the gunman.
30:58There were four counter-sniper teams that day, and this other team had neutralized the
31:02shooter, and apparently a member of local law enforcement had also engaged the shooter,
31:08seeming to mean that this local marksman had fired a shot.
31:11So with that, here once again is former SWAT team member Chad Ayers talking about this
31:17concept of, was Crooks acting alone?
31:21Yeah, I can understand where people are coming from on this, but obviously the audio acoustics,
31:27it can do strange things.
31:28We've all been in baseball stadiums when fireworks go off, or obviously I've been involved
31:34in deadly force encounters and shootings multiple times in my career.
31:38The echo, the ricochet, now keep in mind a lot of what we are hearing as outsiders, there's
31:43microphones involved all over that stage, so we're hearing different delays and things
31:48like that.
31:49As I have watched this video, I mean, Jesse, it seems like a thousand times by now, yes,
31:55I feel like it's consistent with the initial fire from the shooter taking his rounds, followed
32:01by the counter-sniper team's rifles, and then likely that last one they are hearing is the
32:07local's counter-sniper taking that shot that the DA's reported that gentleman's been placed
32:11on leave.
32:12Also, the sound aspect, right?
32:15You might have a mixture of these counter-sniper guys who have suppressors on their rifles,
32:20which I would assume many of them do.
32:24Your local counter-sniper may not have had a suppressor on his rifle, so you're going
32:28to get different audios through that feed.
32:31But again, at the end of the day, I am confident we are still working with one shooter and
32:37multiple law enforcement shooters.
32:39But it's not just that.
32:41Because there was reporting from a former classmate of Crook's that he had failed to
32:44make the school's rifle team back in the day because he was such a bad shot.
32:49So does it make sense that Crook's was able to take that shot?
32:53Wouldn't that be really difficult?
32:54Also, I mentioned all of the explosives and the bomb-making materials.
32:58A 20-year-old guy, no criminal history, how does he know how to do this?
33:01No help?
33:02Well, I asked Chad Ayers about this, and I asked also, once again, Bobby Chacon, former
33:07FBI agent.
33:08Let's hear what they had to say.
33:09He's proned out.
33:10He's laying out.
33:11He's stabilized that rifle.
33:13I could take my five-year-old nephew, and in about 20 minutes, I could lay him behind
33:18that rifle, steady it, tell him to put it on this target, pull the trigger, and it's
33:22going to go there.
33:24It is not a tough shot whatsoever, especially with a 5.56 caliber assault rifle.
33:29Very easy.
33:30I know we mentioned it Monday.
33:31I am looking forward to knowing what type of scope he had.
33:37Was it a magnified type of scope?
33:39Was it a red dot?
33:40What was that?
33:41Not that it changes a lot, but it does change a little bit.
33:43But at the end of the day, whether it's a good shot or not, the only reason former President
33:50Trump is alive today is because he turned his head, period.
33:53Think about it.
33:54A lot of these mass shootings are school shootings, right?
33:56You've got 15-, 16-, 17-, 18-year-olds that carry out the most heinous crimes ever.
34:02These crimes, 100%, can be committed by a solo person without any help at all.
34:08Our guys are digging into it.
34:09Our forensic examiners, our computer forensic examiners are good at that.
34:13If he was able to use ... This was a young man.
34:16He knows computers.
34:17He's of the age that he grew up with them.
34:20If he was using some kind of dark web to hide his search histories and stuff, our guys usually
34:25find that stuff.
34:26Hopefully, something like that happens because I don't know where ... Unless you somehow
34:32got ahold of a bomb-making manual, and I don't know how you do that either, obviously stuff's
34:36readily available on the internet, which leads a trail.
34:39If you're not finding that trail, I don't know how a 20-year-old young man without prior
34:45military training or any kind of training would know to get those things and how to
34:50even crudely assemble them.
34:52Now, I do have to mention this as well, that it is being reported that at the time of Crook's
34:56death, he was wearing a T-shirt from Demolition Ranch, which is a YouTube channel, has 11
35:02million subscribers.
35:03It apparently features videos of guns and explosive devices, so was there something
35:07from there that he was able to learn how to do all this?
35:11But I will tell you, and this is important to note, that the founder of Demolition Ranch,
35:15Matt Carriker, released a statement saying they were shocked and confused to find this
35:20out.
35:21No matter what side you're on politically, none of us want violence.
35:24This channel was never meant to incite violence or hate.
35:28And what is also interesting, as we think about whether or not Crook's had communicated
35:31with anyone, is that apparently Crook's had two cell phones.
35:35Yeah, there was one that was found near his body, and there was a second phone located
35:39at his home back in Bethel Park that had reportedly just 27 contacts on it.
35:44So if this reporting is true, I imagine investigators are going to track down those people.
35:50So let's go back to how this happened.
35:53How was a 20-year-old able to expose these vulnerabilities that day?
35:58Why were there vulnerabilities?
36:01Great question, right?
36:02Well, there are apparently multiple investigations happening right now.
36:07We know we have the FBI regarding the shooting, looking into the shooting, looking into the
36:11shooter.
36:12But we also have multiple investigations that have been opened up by the Department of Homeland
36:15Security's Office of Inspector General, looking into the security of the event, the planning,
36:21the counter-sniper team's preparedness.
36:23And Congress is also jumping in as well.
36:26In fact, Director of the Secret Service, Ms. Chito, she will be testifying next week in
36:32front of the House Oversight Committee.
36:34And here once again is Charles Marino, former Secret Service agent, on what we can expect
36:40from these investigations, especially what we can expect might happen with the Secret
36:46Service director.
36:48It's no surprise that at the DHS level, we're now seeing the inspector general get involved.
36:54They will conduct their own independent investigation.
36:58And then you also have the hearings of Congress that we spoke of.
37:01But you also have calls by Congress for now an independent commission.
37:06So you could have essentially three, four simultaneous investigations going on.
37:12The big thing is, how quickly do these investigations move?
37:17Because the longer this stays out there, the more the conspiracy theories gain traction.
37:22So it's important for all of these investigations to move very quickly.
37:28But the Secret Service will not be allowed, as much as they may want to, and they've already
37:33been told to stand down, from looking at themselves and assessing themselves.
37:39They are now at the mercy of three, four external mechanisms to investigate the agency.
37:47But in terms of putting a spotlight on the Secret Service from these multiple different
37:51investigations, what could happen?
37:53Well, first, they're going to look at what went wrong.
37:57They're going to look at the operational security plans, the number of agents that
38:01were there, the number of Secret Service uniformed division officers, how many special operations
38:07teams were there, counter-snipers, counter-assault team.
38:11Were they purely Secret Service teams, or were they a hybrid, where Secret Service was
38:16married up with state and local resources, like we're hearing?
38:20How many police officers from what jurisdictions were requested to come in and support that
38:25outer perimeter area?
38:27So that visit itself is going to be under a microscope to look at what went wrong there.
38:35That's one area they're going to look at.
38:37Then they're going to start looking at more systemic things.
38:41What are the hiring practices of the Secret Service?
38:44This director happens to be very big in DEI.
38:48She implemented a program called the 30 for 30 campaign when she became director.
38:54That is, she wants the Secret Service workforce to have 30% females by the year 2030.
39:01The big question is going to be, in order for her to meet that quota that she put in
39:05place, had she lowered standards throughout the agency?
39:10So naturally, they're going to then go on to training.
39:13Is training still the world-class training that it was when I went through?
39:18And they're going to look at operations.
39:20They're going to look at resources.
39:23And this is where the Department of Homeland Security comes into the conversation.
39:27Is the Department of Homeland Security giving the Secret Service the resources that it needs
39:33to carry out their zero-fail mission?
39:37Director Cheadle, there are calls for her to resign.
39:39A, do you think she will resign?
39:42Do you think that's the right call for her to resign?
39:44What's your take on it?
39:45And if she doesn't resign, could she be fired?
39:49And how could she be fired?
39:50What's the protocol there?
39:53So I don't think she'll resign.
39:55She has said she has no intention on resigning.
39:59Yes, she can be fired.
40:01She is a presidential appointee, non-confirmed by the Senate, so it would likely be a joint
40:08decision between her immediate boss, the Secretary of Homeland Security, and the President of
40:15the United States.
40:17What I think is the focus now needs to be on the U.S. Secret Service.
40:23The agency has to come out of this stronger than before this situation took place.
40:30They need to make sure that they have everything that they need to do their job, as I already
40:35said.
40:36And I think at this point in time, it can't be about the individual, the director, who
40:40has already come out and made too many statements that just fly in the face of common sense.
40:47So I think it's undercut the credibility of the agency enough.
40:51I think the attention has been too much on her.
40:55And I think it really needs to be on the agency right now to make sure that they're able to
41:01do their important job, not just for the people they protect, but ultimately for democracy.
41:07All right.
41:08So that is what we have right now.
41:10This story is evolving.
41:13This story is changing.
41:14We are getting new information.
41:16This is what we have right now.
41:18But of course, we will continue to follow the latest in this shooting that should never
41:24have happened.
41:26That is all we have for you right now here on Sidebar, everybody.
41:29Thank you so much for joining us.
41:30As always, please subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, wherever you get your podcasts.
41:35I'm Jesse Weber.
41:36I'll speak to you next time.