Street Debate: Can Kenya's protests change the status quo?
In June 2024 young Kenyans took to the streets and while their initial calls to #RejectTheFinancebill demanded the rejection of controversial tax hikes, their demands soon turned into an overhaul of the entire government and calls for President Ruto to step down. Our Street Debate takes stock of Kenya's budding youth movement and asks why police used such excessive force against unarmed civilians.
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00:00Hello and welcome back to the 77% Street Debate. My name is Edith Kimani and this week we are
00:04back in Kenya's capital of Nairobi. But we're here to ask, are protests the only way for
00:09Kenyans to get their voices heard? And what next for the young people of this movement?
00:13Who better to answer that question than the actual members of the movement? Shakira,
00:17let's start with you because you stood up to a police officer and you said,
00:20you're not taking me anywhere, I'm standing up for my rights. Why were you so angry that day?
00:26That was the second day of the protests and on the first day I had been arrested. I wouldn't even
00:32use the term arrested because I was ambushed by plainclothes officers and they threw me into a
00:36vehicle, they harassed me, they beat me and they took me to central police and we were detained
00:42among other protesters until 8pm. So I didn't understand why the people's demands and had to
00:52be met with such brutality. So I was like, if this moment ever happens to me again, I have
00:59to be able to speak up for myself. And to be honest, I was scared. But my anger and frustration
01:05superseded my fear at that point. Alright, so Shakira's anger superseding her fear.
01:10Mohamed, you are a journalist, a communicator, but very much also involved in these protests.
01:15So I did ask the question, what sparked the protests? Because I mean, Kenyans have been
01:20known to protest for a while, but not like this, not at this scale. Kenya has come to the brink of
01:23revolution so many times. Revolution, that's a very strong word. It is a very strong word. I think we
01:29can go back all the way to the 90s when we had the multi-party, when we were fighting for multi-party
01:33democracy in this country. 2002, when all of us were at Uhuru Park and saying Yotewa Zekana Bilamoi,
01:38there's one uniform factor throughout and that is politicians always come in and hijack the
01:44movements and make it about themselves. So what's different this time around? I think the people,
01:49they got tired of that. So then what is the message now? Because at the beginning it was
01:53very clear, right? Reject the finance bill. And I want to speak to some people who participated
01:58in the protests. Did that involve burning buildings, looting businesses? Because this
02:05is also what the young people are being accused of. Like the first day when Rex got shot,
02:10I was in the other side, I was in CBD. At four, all of us decided to go home because it's the
02:15end of the day, night time was coming. The streets were generally not going to be safe.
02:20People left. But then the minute you're coming to downtown, you're being told, oh,
02:25the people who were here, there were goons, people's businesses were ransacked, people were
02:29attacked. Most of the protesters were trying to go home. All of us wanted to go home. We were tired.
02:34Let me bring in Charles Owino, who you might recognize as a former spokesperson for the police.
02:40Based on your own assessment and observation, how would you rate the behaviour of police towards
02:45the protesters in those early days? There's sometimes a big conflict that police find
02:50themselves in. Because as you heard the young man talk, most of these issues are political problems
02:58between the public and politicians. Police officers come in to enforce laws and regulations
03:04of the land. Well, our current constitution is a bit more vibrant. And Article 37 of the
03:10constitution provides that you can demonstrate, you can assemble, you can picket, you can present
03:15petitions to authorities peaceably and unarmed. Who do the police respond and serve? Do they
03:23consider us first or the politicians? The police considers the nation, every one of you. Because,
03:30for example, she's a businesswoman. If you break into her shop, what happens to her? So from where
03:37I sit, I don't want to defend anybody. But what I'm saying is, can we follow the law? Okay,
03:42let me hear from some people here because I'm seeing the hands coming up. If we're being honest
03:46to ourselves, the default position of the police of this country since independence has always
03:51been violence. Now, some of the people who came out during these protests, they're kids who are
03:55from middle class families. Police brutality for them, it's things they see on TV or they read on
04:00the papers. If you go to these low income or these neighborhoods, these informal settlements,
04:05the Madadis, the Kibras, this is their daily reality. Brothers, sons killed without any due
04:11process. We have somebody here from the Law Society of Kenya. What does the law say about
04:15peaceful protests and why the police on the right? Because we saw images of people holding just the
04:20flag and yet they're being sprayed with water cannon. The unfortunate thing that we have
04:24witnessed in this country is the anarchy perpetrated by the state. And I will say this
04:30because we saw a court in Malindi issue an order directing that the police officer should not use
04:36lethal weapon, they should not use force, they should not use water cannons. And it was clearly
04:42directed to the Inspector General of Police to ensure that they provide that command. The following
04:46day, there was a protest organized in the various cities and we could witness the police were in
04:51total violation of that order. I'm going to give Mr. Owino a chance to respond to that and then I
04:55want us to move away from the issue of police. When you bar the police from using the tools
05:01required for their trade. You mean live ammunition? Even live ammunition. Yes, I don't want to lie.
05:07I want to be very honest. Even live ammunition is a tool of trade for the police. We have
05:14had cases of terrorism here. People coming with bombs and firearms. So what I'm saying is that
05:20when it comes to tear gas, the court trying to stop the police from using tear gas or using
05:26baton or even using his gun is misplaced in the sense that it is equivalent to telling the police
05:33stay at the police station. Let us protest. The president has already made some concessions,
05:39fired nearly his entire cabinet. He's now reappointed some people, at least nominated
05:43them. How do you feel about that? Do you feel like the president is listening to the demands
05:46of the youth? Honestly, I don't think he is. Because if you see the reshuffle, it's like he
05:53just switched positions, you know. It's like this person was here, come, stay here. You, go, stay
06:00here. Just to show people, it's like he's playing around with people's mind like I've done something.
06:06So what are the real issues? Let's come back to that. It's evident that when we say Ruto must go,
06:12we don't specifically refer to Ruto. But the entire government that is backing him up,
06:20they've been given a chance time and time again. Because these are politicians I've heard about
06:24since I was a little girl. So I think it's just time we, it's like deconstructing everything
06:34and start afresh from a new foundation. So what are the solutions? I'm going to plead with the
06:39youth. My children go to school in Nairobi. I work in Nairobi. That means my children will not
06:46go to school. I will not go to work. And I am a single mother of three children. Kindly, as a
06:53human being, I wish, I hope that this protest can take a better route. So while you support
07:02the movement, you don't want loss of business, you don't want loss of life. Okay, understood.
07:06Let me hear some more points. My solution is simple. The young people, you are the majority.
07:13Stop tribalism. Excuse me. I don't say you are a tribalist. I say we have been practicing
07:24tribalism. Your generation should stop. I want to see an election where you are going to elect
07:32people based on the policies that they want to sell to you. I think that's a fair point.
07:40And finally, I'd like to hear from you, Moha. Let's close this with you.
07:43Yes. As civilians, we're going to take our civic duty very seriously from now on. The other day
07:49on Twitter, we had two different simultaneous Twitter spaces on Wednesday. Well, one group was
07:54teaching people about the bills that are being tabled in parliament. And the other group was
07:57teaching people, it's a group of young lawyers who are teaching people about the Katiba, the
08:02constitution. We're reaching a point where we're going to make life very uncomfortable for
08:06politicians, and in a non-violent way. Let me just clarify that.
08:10So we have to wrap there because of time. But I did ask a question, you know, what next? And I
08:15think the answer has been very clear here, that even if it's not on the streets, it's going to be
08:20somewhere online, or perhaps at a debate like this, right? So I thank you all for participating.
08:26I did read somewhere that these protests were not so much anti-government, but pro-good governance.
08:32And I think this debate here has clearly illustrated that. Thank you all for watching.