Category
😹
FunTranscript
00:00:00It'll be interesting. I wonder what Carline would think of all this.
00:00:14I know, yeah. She'd be laughing, wouldn't she, I think?
00:00:17She'd be laughing, yeah. Yeah, definitely.
00:00:21I need to, like, again do it. I don't know what I was saying.
00:00:30Dad!
00:00:33Comedy. I knew that if you strip it bare and just have funny characters,
00:00:38but with loving and everything, it would work.
00:00:41Please, Kate, shut up.
00:00:44Because I always think too much happens in sitcoms.
00:00:46Because you know how people are funny, aren't they?
00:00:50Sorry.
00:00:51I think she had a passion to hold a mirror up to real people.
00:01:00And she'd be quite bemused and amused that we're all yapping about her.
00:01:09And she'd say, Cassie, you'd never say anything nice about me when I was alive, did you?
00:01:14Hello, I'm Mrs May.
00:01:16Nudity, filth, ladies' bosoms popping out from the cardigans.
00:01:21You won't be seeing any of that on this show.
00:01:24If I wanted to go out that evening, I'd look in my black book,
00:01:26and I'd look, I'd see Caroline's name, and I'd go,
00:01:28if I go out with her, I know that I'll be laughing like a drain.
00:01:34She was a tremendous kid, honestly.
00:01:36She could have told me to climb Mount Everest and I'd have done it, you know?
00:01:38What did you have?
00:01:39Toad in the hole.
00:01:41But we didn't have any sausages left, so we just had the hole.
00:01:46She was a perfectionist. She was an artist, Caroline.
00:01:48There's no doubt about this.
00:01:50Aw, are you waiting in there?
00:01:52Who's that?
00:01:53I always believed it was about love and respect.
00:01:56I think that that's why people loved it.
00:01:59Caroline, ahead.
00:02:01She was just the normal, within show girl at heart.
00:02:05But being in the public eye was very difficult for her.
00:02:10Thanks. Thank you.
00:02:12I'm just not very good at being a celebrity.
00:02:14I find all that really hard to deal with.
00:02:16Craig always says I'm like the female Gaza.
00:02:19She was a very bright light that didn't shine for long enough.
00:02:27I mean, when they kept saying, you're a big Hollywood actress,
00:02:30I didn't contradict them.
00:02:34She was definitely unique, and she showed that clever,
00:02:38intelligent comedy can appeal to everyone.
00:02:49What gave you the first idea to do a spoof talk show?
00:02:53I mean, where did that start?
00:02:55Well, I was doing loads of little characters and things,
00:02:58and I was doing Mrs. Merton as an agony aunt on the radio.
00:03:02And then Granada was saying they were giving six comedians
00:03:05their own half-hour show, and they said,
00:03:07what would you do if we gave you one?
00:03:09So I said, oh, I'd do Mrs. Merton's chat show.
00:03:11So that was how it happened, really.
00:03:13Without further ado, let's bring in the show.
00:03:16Without further ado, let's bring on our first guest.
00:03:20She's come from the womb of one of history's most historic figures
00:03:24to be with us tonight.
00:03:25Ladies and gentlemen, will you welcome
00:03:27the lovely face of Carol Thatcher.
00:03:34We didn't even have a set for it.
00:03:36We literally just said, well, let's just put some sheets out
00:03:39and, you know, just put a couple of chairs there,
00:03:42and we'll just do that.
00:03:44So, Carol, you must think, you know,
00:03:46everybody only wants to talk about your mother.
00:03:48It's not going to be like that tonight, Carol.
00:03:51What's your father like?
00:03:54Are you going to come on to Mark as well?
00:03:56No, no, I'll give him a miss.
00:04:01In my view, she has never been funnier.
00:04:04She was never funnier on the Mrs. Merton show
00:04:06than on that one night.
00:04:07It was like genius.
00:04:10It's one of those moments where you go,
00:04:12a star is born.
00:04:13Hands up if you in here tonight are a vegetarian.
00:04:18A lot of them are probably too weak to put their hands up.
00:04:22Tell me, what do you think of it all, this new fad?
00:04:25What fad?
00:04:27Somebody who's been listening tonight.
00:04:32There was a warmth to everything she did.
00:04:34It was a love of that type of person.
00:04:38They don't know anything.
00:04:39They're in Countdown.
00:04:41The sort of aunts and grannies who she knew,
00:04:45you know, coming around to visit when she was growing up.
00:04:51But what about your background now,
00:04:53going right the way back to the start of your career?
00:04:55You were born in Manchester and an Irish background,
00:04:59Irish family.
00:04:59Yeah.
00:05:00Your mum seems to have played a great part in your life.
00:05:03Yeah, she's brilliant, my mum.
00:05:06And she's very...
00:05:07She always used to love me doing little acts for her
00:05:10and turns for her when I was little.
00:05:11I'd only do them for her.
00:05:12You know, like when her friends had gone,
00:05:13I'd be impersonating them and stuff and she'd love it.
00:05:17So it's all her fault.
00:05:19And mum would always be up to sort of some sort of mischief.
00:05:24When I met her the very first time,
00:05:26Caroline said, listen, my mum and dad are in the other room
00:05:29and they're waiting to meet you.
00:05:33Maureen was like the queen of Sheba
00:05:35and she had like a wraparound thing going
00:05:38and, you know, I had to kiss her hand when I came in
00:05:41and Bert had a tea towel around his head.
00:05:44And they'd be like, hello, hello.
00:05:45And I'm thinking, what the hell's going on here?
00:05:48And they say, you sit down.
00:05:50And when you sat down, it was a towel that was suspended
00:05:52between two chairs and you fell on the floor
00:05:55and that was a great crack.
00:05:57And, you know, Caroline had come running
00:06:00and he's fell up falling for the queen of Sheba routine.
00:06:04Mischief was in her blood.
00:06:09Our Patrick was born and they discovered
00:06:11he had cancer of the retina.
00:06:13So he had his eye removed when he was only 18 months old
00:06:16and then mum was already pregnant with me
00:06:18and then they found out that when I was born
00:06:20that I had it as well.
00:06:21But I was really lucky because they saved my eyes.
00:06:26Mum used to tell us that we were special.
00:06:29About having cancer.
00:06:30And we thought, God, aren't we brilliant with cancer?
00:06:33You know, so she kind of made us very strong.
00:06:38She grew up in Wythenshawe, which she loved.
00:06:43Ah, Wythenshawe.
00:06:45It's kind of rough and ready, but she loved it.
00:06:57The people were, you know, salt of the earth
00:06:59and full of characters, really, the place and still is.
00:07:05I'm starving.
00:07:07This would be a perfect lunch for Caroline.
00:07:10Not a roast dinner or out like that.
00:07:13Just toasty mad, honestly.
00:07:18It's just melon toasties.
00:07:21I don't know.
00:07:22I don't know what to say.
00:07:23I'm just going to have a go at it.
00:07:26I'm going to have a go at it.
00:07:27It's just a little bit of everything.
00:07:28It's a little bit of everything.
00:07:29It's a little bit of everything.
00:07:30It's a little bit of everything.
00:07:31It's just melon toasties.
00:07:34I'm going to want some for dinner now.
00:07:40Caroline lived over the way with her mum and dad,
00:07:43Bert and Maureen, yeah.
00:07:46Good family, really.
00:07:49Met her out on the front, first time I ever met her.
00:07:53I don't know, we just hit it off.
00:07:56There it is.
00:07:59I think it's a good one.
00:08:02I miss her.
00:08:03You miss her like mad.
00:08:05My relationship with Caroline,
00:08:06you're more like a sister, really.
00:08:07That's how you talk to her.
00:08:10Mad on television.
00:08:11That telly was on 24-7.
00:08:14It was, that was her life, really, the telly.
00:08:16So if you disturbed the telly, the door wasn't getting open.
00:08:24I used to love Benny Hill.
00:08:25I used to absolutely love Benny Hill.
00:08:27I thought it was the funniest thing.
00:08:29And Dick Henry, all those sort of things when you're growing up.
00:08:32I loved comedy.
00:08:33You are awful, but I like you.
00:08:40I could spend hours, days just watching telly, delighted.
00:08:45That's when I realised I wanted to do something with drama.
00:08:50So I went to Liverpool Poly.
00:08:53Then I got a massive overdraft when I was there,
00:08:56so I came out and I was temping,
00:08:58because I'd done secretarial as well.
00:08:59And then I got a week at the BBC in Manchester as a temp.
00:09:06Oh, that's in the offices at the BBC, isn't it?
00:09:09Yes, it looks like it, yes.
00:09:11On Oxford Road?
00:09:12Yes.
00:09:12Oh, God.
00:09:13That's when I first met her on the temping.
00:09:14Yeah, it is, isn't it?
00:09:15Oh.
00:09:18I think it was 1987, I think it was.
00:09:21And yeah, I mean, she was a great actress.
00:09:26See, then she hadn't really done anything on telly or anything at that point,
00:09:29but she was just really, really funny.
00:09:31And you could tell she had a real sort of comedy genius at that point, even.
00:09:37She loved to play games and play tricks on people.
00:09:42She'd ring up some of the researchers and just say,
00:09:43can you come in?
00:09:44And then she'd get Jonathan, who was the youngest boy there,
00:09:48and she'd get him to hide in the cupboard.
00:09:50And then when the researcher would come in,
00:09:52or the producer, she wasn't really fussy,
00:09:54she'd sort of say, oh, can you, just while you're standing there,
00:09:57can you just get me something out of the cupboard?
00:09:58And they'd open the door and Jonathan would jump out
00:10:00and they'd get frightened to death.
00:10:02And she thought that was hilarious, which it was, actually.
00:10:04Well, I bet it was.
00:10:05Yeah.
00:10:06It was just all about the fun, really.
00:10:08We just did a lot of playing about and laughing.
00:10:12I mean, she could type.
00:10:13She loved typing, so she could type.
00:10:16But no, that wasn't what she wanted to do.
00:10:21That's probably when she about started doing stand-up, isn't it?
00:10:24She wasn't earning that great money at that time.
00:10:27Just eat beans a lot, beans and toast, and that's all, really.
00:10:33She started doing stand-up while she was still working.
00:10:36She wanted her equity card for her to be on television,
00:10:39to be an actress.
00:10:40So you had to do a certain amount of hours doing something performing.
00:10:44So then she thought she'd do stand-up, that'd be the easiest thing.
00:10:47However, that was really hard for her because she was so shy.
00:10:51Put your hands together and welcome the fine comic talents of Carolina Hearn.
00:10:58I got this car, right, you know, it's like a metro car.
00:11:01Well, it is a metro car, a metro, right?
00:11:03I've got this metro, and I was, like, driving it, right?
00:11:06And there was all this, like, rattling under the bonnet bit.
00:11:10So I thought, oh, and I'm not really that mechanically minded.
00:11:12So I took it to a garage and I said, you know, if you're a girl on your own,
00:11:16they always sort of rip you off.
00:11:17So I went, oh, hi, my brother is a car mechanic, but he's not well.
00:11:22I wanted to see if you could do stand-up without any actual jokes.
00:11:32Sometimes it was rubbish and sometimes it was really good.
00:11:36When I started, there was Steve Coogan, John Thompson, Henry Normore and me.
00:11:42There was, like, a little sort of circuit going on.
00:11:44And I could get the same amount of money for two weeks' work as a secretary
00:11:47as I could for 20 minutes doing stand-up.
00:11:50And I thought, God, that's brilliant.
00:11:52We were neighbours on Old Lansdowne Road.
00:11:54I lived in a bed studio flat, and she lived just down the road.
00:11:57So we would meet on the circuit.
00:12:01We hung around a lot together in Manchester.
00:12:04I saw a lot of her.
00:12:06She was funny, great company.
00:12:09She was a lovely person.
00:12:11She was funny, great company.
00:12:15She liked me, but I annoyed her as well.
00:12:20She sort of saw me as a working-class boy with intellectual pretensions
00:12:26and didn't let me off the hook, you know, really sort of skewered me.
00:12:31She used to tell the mech about you and your London friends, didn't she?
00:12:34Oh, yeah, yeah, because I had two groups of friends.
00:12:36I had my Northern friends and then I had my London friends
00:12:40who also happened to be sort of Oxbridge-ish.
00:12:42Basically, I was a bit of a Northerner that had sold out.
00:12:48When I walked in one day on a hot day and I was wearing shorts,
00:12:51she looked at me and said, looked at me in my shorts and said,
00:12:56looked at me and said, oh, that reminds me,
00:12:58I must get some chicken drumsticks on the way home, right?
00:13:02If I managed to make her laugh, I was delighted if I could make her laugh.
00:13:05I've been pure and simple every time.
00:13:09Ladies and gentlemen.
00:13:14Young people didn't really get into comedy.
00:13:18Manchester and the North were still in the sort of grips of the dying
00:13:22gasps of working men's club comedy, which was very regressive.
00:13:27This Aborigine from the backwoods, oh, all right, ugly bastard.
00:13:30You know, misogynistic, racist comedy.
00:13:36The only venues I and Caroline could find were live music venues
00:13:42or these arts venues.
00:13:45Pants as tight as a packet of Jorex.
00:13:48And thoughts as clear as beer, fight and sex.
00:13:53I was the poet on the bill.
00:13:56I went on before her and read some serious poem about race
00:13:59or what have you, you know, that was not funny.
00:14:02I'm proud, I'm black and I love my culture,
00:14:04but I ain't drinking wine with a liberal vulture.
00:14:06I'm sorry to all the comedians that I ever did that to.
00:14:10The industry was very male.
00:14:13She was the only woman within the company of the wolves.
00:14:20But she knew what she was doing and she shone.
00:14:27I'm just so nervous.
00:14:28I'm just trying this act out for a friend.
00:14:30She's too nervous to do it.
00:14:35She was so naturally funny.
00:14:37That's the beauty of it, she had funny bones.
00:14:40But it was the nervousness of it that made it so brilliant
00:14:45because she throws it away without pushing the punchline.
00:14:52It's a very clever way of doing it because it's thrown away
00:14:55and then they're still laughing as she starts the next joke.
00:14:58I was going to put some politics into my act, but I didn't bother.
00:15:05A few times she'd go and she was sort of paid, say,
00:15:07to do 15 minutes, 20 minutes, something like that,
00:15:10and we'd get there and say, right, time me, see how I do.
00:15:13And then she'd come off and she'd go, well, how was that?
00:15:15And I'd say, eight minutes, but it's better than last time.
00:15:19No, I just put that in for, like, some comedy and that.
00:15:22But anyway, listen, thanks very much, I've had a lovely time, bye.
00:15:27APPLAUSE
00:15:31You've got a very high IQ, haven't you?
00:15:32You're, what, 176?
00:15:35Yes.
00:15:35That's genius level.
00:15:36Yeah, no, I'm delighted.
00:15:39Delighted about that.
00:15:42Has it made a difference?
00:15:43What?
00:15:44Has it made a difference?
00:15:45Well, it has because I can't stop showing off about it.
00:15:57MUSIC PLAYS
00:15:59KFM!
00:16:02This is South Manchester's only 24-hour music station.
00:16:06I'd been working at this radio station called KFM.
00:16:11They applied for presenters
00:16:14and Caroline came walking into the room with a big bag.
00:16:20I said, what the hell is in this?
00:16:23There'd be things like fake dog poo, big teeth that she'd put in
00:16:29just to make people laugh, and these glasses,
00:16:32weird glasses that made her eyes look funny.
00:16:35Oh, do you know, she was just a complete and utter crackpot.
00:16:40It was what she was.
00:16:43It was strange because, like, within half an hour,
00:16:48I just felt like I'd known her all my life.
00:16:51On the very first day I met her, I went home and I wrote in my diary,
00:16:55I had just met the funniest man in the world.
00:16:58We just laughed and laughed all day.
00:17:02Craig and Caroline came as a pair, but they were funny.
00:17:07They really were. I mean, I remember crying and laughing.
00:17:10Craig was funny and Caroline was funny.
00:17:13Caroline was a bit funnier than Craig.
00:17:15Because the controller thought we were good together,
00:17:19we did, like, a Saturday morning show together.
00:17:23Caroline, come here a sec.
00:17:24Did you not have a request to give to somebody earlier?
00:17:27Oh, yeah, John Harrison.
00:17:29But I might have made that up because I really can't remember.
00:17:32A man in a garage called Phil as well, and he was lovely.
00:17:36Caroline was never really a presenter.
00:17:40She was always a bit of a, you know,
00:17:43a presenter.
00:17:44She was always much better in the comedy world than in the radio world, really.
00:17:52The show was late at night and she would literally be asleep with a,
00:17:57maybe a record going...
00:18:00going round.
00:18:01And I mean, literally...
00:18:04white noise.
00:18:05She woke up after about two hours of being asleep,
00:18:10and the next day she was waiting for someone to make a complaint,
00:18:13but nobody complained.
00:18:16No one noticed.
00:18:17That's how few people are listening to her.
00:18:20Anyway, we're just doing this for a bit of a laugh, really.
00:18:22And then what we'll do, Caroline, is we'll probably move on from KFM.
00:18:28Oh, I reckon big telly jobbies for us now.
00:18:30You know, like Richard Madeley and Judy Finnegan and everything.
00:18:33It's like we started off small on KFM.
00:18:36Stepping stones.
00:18:36Stepping stones.
00:18:37Big jobbies.
00:18:40We got sacked.
00:18:42So I said to Craig,
00:18:44well, I'll do that and act if you take me around in the car with half the money.
00:18:51So I entered to do a stand-up competition,
00:18:54and I won it and got £200.
00:18:55Craig had helped me write.
00:18:57And I remember we got back to my house and we were throwing the money in the air.
00:19:02We were doing car boot sales and everything.
00:19:03We had no money and it was absolutely brilliant.
00:19:06And then we spent the whole lot on drink.
00:19:10I remember it as if it was yesterday.
00:19:13We danced and danced as the £10 notes tumbled around us.
00:19:19And it was, it just, we were so giddy and so excited.
00:19:24And no money since then ever felt as good as that.
00:19:31She understood enough about what she did to know that it was good.
00:19:35And she also knew that her background empowered her and gave her a little superpower
00:19:42that being from more privileged backgrounds, you did not have.
00:19:52I was tasked to try and set up a Granada comedy division.
00:19:55It felt a little bit daunting until I sort of discovered this extraordinary range of talent.
00:20:00Andy Harris claimed to have discovered Caroline, me and John.
00:20:03Yeah.
00:20:03And Caroline's joke was always, and she said this in front of Andy,
00:20:07it was like, yeah, Andy Harris got a job at Granada Television
00:20:10and he came down to the studio where me, John and Steve were recording a TV show.
00:20:15And that's where he discovered it.
00:20:23I needed to see what I could do to develop them.
00:20:27And one thing we obviously did was to do a pilot of a sketch show,
00:20:30which was called The Dead Good Show.
00:20:44Around this time, she was doing sketch shows.
00:20:49She'd done The Dead Good Show and The Fast Show.
00:20:56Caroline was badgering me to think about doing more with Mrs Burton.
00:21:14Next week, euthanasia, is it just for foreigners?
00:21:19But sadly, we're out of time.
00:21:21Can I thank all my guests tonight?
00:21:23We'd done a pilot for it and they commissioned a series, possibly two series.
00:21:30And that thrust Caroline into the limelight, really.
00:21:36It's a mixture of kind of excitement and fear.
00:21:41It was a proper job.
00:21:43Exciting times.
00:21:46Hello, I'm Mrs Burton and welcome to the show.
00:21:50It was just a fantastic idea that she herself, at 23, 24 years old,
00:21:55was playing an old lady as a character.
00:21:58Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Akabusi.
00:22:02Being innocent and being not one bit innocent at the same time,
00:22:08it was a great vehicle for a chat show.
00:22:12Unlike her husband, Paul Daniels, who's known for his cunning stunts,
00:22:16my next guest is known for her stunning costumes.
00:22:21Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Debbie McGee.
00:22:28Oh, Debbie, you're very pleasing on the eye, if I might say so.
00:22:31I think Chris has realised that.
00:22:35But what first, Debbie, attracted you to the millionaire Paul Daniels?
00:22:46She was taking the piss out of famous people,
00:22:50you know, kind of demolishing them.
00:22:53But I think Caroline did it with such delightful playfulness
00:22:56that everybody who came on the show pretty much didn't take offence.
00:23:01You know, you were a 60s sensation, weren't you?
00:23:04You know, all that marvellous football you played
00:23:06and then, of course, all the booze.
00:23:09But did you ever...
00:23:10Did you ever think, if you hadn't done all that running around playing football,
00:23:15would you have been as thirsty?
00:23:21The guests never knew what they were going to be asked.
00:23:25Therefore, Caroline had no idea how they were going to respond.
00:23:31Remember, like, Chris Eubank and Kai, that was a weird one.
00:23:39What about the guy who beat you last time?
00:23:42Statistically, he's obviously a better fighter than me.
00:23:45Do you think so?
00:23:46Statistically.
00:23:47Were you as surprised as we all were
00:23:50when he came from behind and he licked you in the ring?
00:23:55Were you surprised?
00:23:59The thing about...
00:24:01Were you?
00:24:04Oh, come on, Chris.
00:24:07Chris Eubank, come on.
00:24:09It's a chat show.
00:24:13She was so good.
00:24:14So bloody good.
00:24:16So quick on her feet.
00:24:19And kind of revelling in it because she thought,
00:24:25well, he's not going to punch me because I'm an old woman.
00:24:29You do what comes to mind, which is to be belligerent, you know?
00:24:32Yes.
00:24:33A lot of people watching, me and you know,
00:24:35a lot of people watching won't know what belligerent means.
00:24:39What's exactly, what's exactly belligerent in the inner city schools?
00:24:45To be antagonistic.
00:24:46Antagonistic.
00:24:50I knew he wouldn't hit me,
00:24:51but you know, he's got the most flattest head you've ever seen.
00:24:55And you could actually get a tray of drinks on it.
00:25:00Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Eubank.
00:25:03But actually, afterwards, he did bring up massive good comments.
00:25:06But actually, afterwards, he did bring up massive good come back on,
00:25:09because I think he got it.
00:25:14The irony was, much as she wanted to do it,
00:25:17she didn't really love performing to a live audience.
00:25:19That always made her nervous.
00:25:23She involved her close family and then friends in as many things as she possibly could.
00:25:28Mrs Merton Show, it's just full of next door neighbours and her mum and her brothers.
00:25:34A sort of safety blanket, I guess.
00:25:42Comedy is the hardest thing to do.
00:25:44So doing it week in, week out with people you know you can rely on to laugh at your jokes.
00:25:52Being kind to you, bring things to the show.
00:25:55That's again a stroke of genius.
00:26:00We live quite close to you, Lord Litchfield.
00:26:02Just about two miles down the road.
00:26:04Well, three if you count your front garden.
00:26:10The crowd.
00:26:11They were important, weren't they?
00:26:12They were wonderful.
00:26:12Brilliant characters, aren't they?
00:26:14People say, you know, did you write that stuff with them?
00:26:16And we're going, God, if we could write that kind of stuff, you know.
00:26:19They just used to come out with it.
00:26:20They were brilliant.
00:26:26The BBC were desperate for more.
00:26:27It was a huge hit.
00:26:29Caroline, Craig and Henry had their office beside me.
00:26:31It was fantastic.
00:26:33If I ever was a bit fed up, I'd just have to go in their room and they'd cheer me up.
00:26:39They had this fairly absurd sort of routine.
00:26:41They never came in before half past ten.
00:26:43And most of the first hours, it was usually Caroline sort of nursing a bit of a hangover
00:26:47and putting sopidine into water and then a lot of discussion about television.
00:26:54I usually come in late and then Craig has a go at me for being late.
00:26:59And I say, no, Craig was late.
00:27:01It was a week.
00:27:01This goes on for ages.
00:27:03And then Henry goes, now, come on, come on, let's write comedy.
00:27:07I was the grown up and I used to type up the paper for her.
00:27:11So whenever you see a look down at the pad, I'd write that and I'd put some things in bold
00:27:16and some things in cap.
00:27:17I'm the only one who had a computer, you see.
00:27:19And if she didn't want to write, she'd just say, you know, we're going shopping.
00:27:23Oh, I remember once she said, we're going to Granada Tours.
00:27:29We'd go down Coronation Street set and you could go in the pub in The Rover's Return
00:27:35and they'd have a green screen opposite the stars of Coronation Street.
00:27:41Do you want a toast with me?
00:27:42Yes, please.
00:27:44Well done or half.
00:27:45Well done for a little bit.
00:27:48She loved to just have a crack and just have fun.
00:27:51It were very happy days then.
00:27:53Very, very happy days.
00:27:54We'd mess about.
00:28:03And when the bigwigs from the BBC would come to see us, when they left, she'd open the window
00:28:12and shout down to them as they crossed the road, do a funny walk.
00:28:18And even the top sort of echelons of the BBC would do a funny walk over the road.
00:28:26She'd kill herself laughing.
00:28:27But that's how cheeky she was.
00:28:30Because you're supposed to treat the producer, as you know, with respect.
00:28:35But I think Caroline was more the boss.
00:28:38Hello.
00:28:40Yes, we're back with a brand new set, a brand new sofa.
00:28:46But the same old gormless faces.
00:28:58Horace, let me ask you, do you like classical music?
00:29:04In small doses.
00:29:08Every guest would have been disgust around the table.
00:29:12Ladies and gentlemen, Melinda Messenger.
00:29:17Caroline would have the ultimate decision.
00:29:20It's Matthew Kelly.
00:29:22But the Bernie Manning one was a difficult one, really.
00:29:27She wanted to challenge him and his thoughts and his beliefs.
00:29:34You Japanese never fucking laugh, do you?
00:29:36Hey, you never laugh.
00:29:38Sat there, he can't wait to grow and make all the dots.
00:29:42You look a nice young fella, go and piss on that job.
00:29:47He's got the best comic timing in Britain.
00:29:50But I think he's the most awful, horrendous, racist man.
00:29:54I think the idea of sweeping it under the carpet and saying,
00:29:57we're not going to put it on television because we're politically correct.
00:30:00I think that it's still happening.
00:30:01He's really massive in the Northwest.
00:30:04Bernie Manning's club's full every night.
00:30:05To not show him on television because of that,
00:30:08I think show him on television and show that racism is so right.
00:30:12The Mrs Mercer Show, it's a comedy show, it's an entertainment show.
00:30:15And yes, you want to kind of,
00:30:17it's like you want to shadowbox a little bit with people.
00:30:19But you, but you know, you're there for a laugh.
00:30:21You know, when you're moving into racism, homophobia,
00:30:25kind of one of the strong themes.
00:30:27It's trickier to be able to have the light touch
00:30:29and to keep the light touch, as particularly in a live situation.
00:30:33I went to see him before we had him on the show.
00:30:37And I do remember him ending his performance
00:30:41with something that wasn't even a joke.
00:30:43He just said, keep your friends white, which was awful.
00:30:49So we'd reported to Caroline that this was the case.
00:30:55The camera was still on Caroline while we waited
00:30:59for the lights to be set up and stuff.
00:31:03And she did this thing where she crossed herself
00:31:05just before Bernard was coming on.
00:31:08And I saw it and thought, aw.
00:31:13Will you welcome old Big Mouth himself, Bernard Manning.
00:31:22She must have been thinking, please, God, I'll get through it.
00:31:26OK, please, God, it's OK.
00:31:29It's lovely to have you on.
00:31:30Oh, it's lovely to be here.
00:31:31It really is lovely to have you on.
00:31:33Get on the racism kick and all that right away.
00:31:37I'm sexist and I don't like queers.
00:31:44No, we'll save that.
00:31:46Finding out that the audience found Bernard Manning's
00:31:50rather unpleasant sense of humour funny, I think that was quite a shock.
00:31:56But you upset people, Bernard, with your comedy.
00:31:59Yes.
00:32:00What do you think of that?
00:32:02It don't upset me, it upsets them.
00:32:04But don't you feel bad that you upset people?
00:32:07Oh, no. No, no.
00:32:09See, these people think they're English because you're born here.
00:32:11That means if a dog's born in a stable, it's a horse.
00:32:17That is one titan who's been peddling racism to make his money.
00:32:24And she, as this little, meek, Mrs Most In character,
00:32:28chose to speak to him on that seat.
00:32:34But the thing about you is, Bernard, there's no getting away from it.
00:32:37You're a very good comedian, but...
00:32:39Nice of you to say that.
00:32:40You are racist, aren't you, Bernard?
00:32:42Yes.
00:32:44To her credit, she braved it out.
00:32:46She really got to the heart of him,
00:32:48because he'd never really admitted that he was a racist.
00:32:50You know, you could clearly see what he was then.
00:32:53Hands up in this audience.
00:32:55Who'd like Bernard more if he wasn't racist?
00:32:59Me.
00:32:59Let me just see.
00:33:01There you are.
00:33:01Now, that's a majority.
00:33:03You see, Bernard, we'd like you more if you weren't racist.
00:33:06What do you think about that?
00:33:08Well, I'm not really racist.
00:33:09I tell jokes about everything.
00:33:11Why don't you promise tonight that you'll never tell another racist joke?
00:33:14Oh, yes.
00:33:14Oh, yes.
00:33:15Promise us all.
00:33:17I couldn't do that, no.
00:33:18Why not?
00:33:19Because that's letting them off the hook.
00:33:20I tell great...
00:33:21I tell gags about everybody and everything.
00:33:24Well, do you know something, Bernard?
00:33:26I came to your club once, the Embassy.
00:33:28Did you?
00:33:28And, you know, I laughed.
00:33:30I laughed and laughed and laughed.
00:33:33It was the night it burnt down, you know, the fire.
00:33:37She stuck to her guns and said...
00:33:39And would get on at him about it.
00:33:42Bernard, who do you vote for now Hitler's dead?
00:33:48We played roll out the barrel when you came on.
00:33:50We're scraping the barrel with you on.
00:33:54You can see it is the most like Caroline and the least like Mrs Merton.
00:34:01That was a heavyweight thing to do that most intellectuals couldn't do.
00:34:05They could articulate racism, et cetera, but they couldn't sit for however long
00:34:10that interview was with a person like Bernard Manning and get him to unpick himself.
00:34:20Sorry, we've just got to finish the ending.
00:34:23That interview is like, this is the end of your kind of comedian, Bernard.
00:34:27We get it, but it's the end of it.
00:34:29We get it because you're here and we have to face you.
00:34:33That was a radical thing to do that Caroline did.
00:34:36Ladies and gentlemen, will you thank Bernard Manning and Richard Wilson.
00:34:44She was way ahead of her game, way ahead of what people understood what she was,
00:34:48what she was doing and what she was capable of, you know.
00:34:52And the winner is Caroline Ahead.
00:34:58Oh, it's a treat.
00:35:01She was a growing star, catapulted into the public eye.
00:35:06I was a press officer at Granada and looking after entertainment.
00:35:10Mrs Merton.
00:35:13I must have asked, could you keep an eye out for her?
00:35:15She was getting a lot of press intrusion.
00:35:23She suffered terribly at the hands of the tabloids.
00:35:26They were always waiting for the next fall.
00:35:30Romantically, it never worked out for her.
00:35:32And that's a good story.
00:35:36She was a great actress, a great actor.
00:35:39Romantically, it never worked out for her.
00:35:41And that's a good story.
00:35:45She did have quite a few boyfriends, didn't she, over the years.
00:35:49However, it didn't really work out.
00:35:50They just didn't work out, you know.
00:35:52They just didn't work out for a different, you know, different reasons, really.
00:35:56Yeah, yeah, different reasons.
00:35:58She would have loved to have children, but she chose not to because
00:36:02at the time they were saying that if a child was born,
00:36:04there would be a 50-50 chance that it would be born with cancer.
00:36:08Being born with the retinoblastoma that she had.
00:36:11Yeah, yeah. You would have never taken that risk.
00:36:13No.
00:36:16She carried a lot of sadness.
00:36:18I do think that.
00:36:20She did.
00:36:20And I think her life was difficult.
00:36:24It was difficult being in her head, I think.
00:36:30There were some tough times for her.
00:36:32But I think what was always important with Caroline's work was it was always evolving.
00:36:37So Mrs Merton was always going to have a limited life.
00:36:41She wanted to do something else, you know.
00:36:44I was like, bloody hell, we're doing all right here.
00:36:48Because we were skint, basically, before any of this.
00:36:52Just got a mortgage for the first time and I said to her,
00:36:57Blimey, we're on the slow train out of poverty here and you're pulling the emergency card.
00:37:04But she was like, come on, Cassie, trust me, I trust you.
00:37:11She'd always say that, I trust you.
00:37:13So, you know, trust me.
00:37:19We wanted to make a sitcom where it was that, it was believable.
00:37:23People were sat around where they're just naturally funny, you know.
00:37:27Because everybody knows people like that.
00:37:30She had this fascination with ordinary people and what they say.
00:37:36She'd say, all the comedy you ever want in the world,
00:37:41you can walk around the supermarket and find it if you listen.
00:37:45Morning, girls.
00:37:46Morning, Gwen, you all right?
00:37:47Fine, thank you.
00:37:48Good.
00:37:49One of the biggest influences was a documentary called Three Salons at the Seaside.
00:37:54Oh, don't you look at it.
00:37:56She looks like a chipmunk, doesn't she?
00:37:58Yeah, I mean, there was nothing to do with it at first.
00:38:01Oh, she was, she was.
00:38:03She had wrinkles down her cheeks.
00:38:04They've gone away, but I'm sure they've done her mouth wrong.
00:38:09We watched it together time and time and time again.
00:38:12And the mundane conversations that they'd have, we would find funny.
00:38:18The lady from the laundrette isn't back at work yet.
00:38:20She's had back trouble.
00:38:22Has she?
00:38:22Yeah, she's had back trouble.
00:38:24But you know, we were only thinking the other day about Maureen.
00:38:27Oh.
00:38:28Nice young woman.
00:38:29Wasn't it a sad way to die?
00:38:30It was.
00:38:31We were horrified that day.
00:38:33I don't know if you remember.
00:38:34You know, she died on our toilet, you know.
00:38:37I remember you telling me, yeah.
00:38:38Oh, it was awful.
00:38:40It really was.
00:38:41To think that somebody so young should just go up to you.
00:38:45Yeah, she was.
00:38:45She was.
00:38:46She was.
00:38:46She was.
00:38:47She was.
00:38:47She was.
00:38:48She was.
00:38:48She was.
00:38:49She was.
00:38:49She was.
00:38:50She was.
00:38:50She was.
00:38:51She was.
00:38:51She was.
00:38:52She was.
00:38:52She was.
00:38:53She was.
00:38:54Upstairs, and that was it.
00:38:58Anyway, let's hope it doesn't ever happen again in our establishment.
00:39:03We're horrified.
00:39:05So we kind of wanted to do something about our world.
00:39:10And Caroline was certain that it would work.
00:39:16It would travel.
00:39:19I said, what's this?
00:39:20She said, this is what we're doing next.
00:39:23It's the Royal Family.
00:39:24I said, right.
00:39:25She said, now, I don't want any notes.
00:39:28I know you're going to say it's a bit short, but it's not.
00:39:30Because we've written pause here and pause there.
00:39:32Because that's when we're going to pause.
00:39:34OK, we're going to stop.
00:39:35It's all in real time.
00:39:36So don't you be mithering about it.
00:39:37Just read it normally.
00:39:38And then at the same time, they gave me the cast list.
00:39:43We read the first episode of The Royal Family to Andy Harris.
00:39:48And at the end, he said, he has a little high pitched voice.
00:39:51Andy, we called him Squeak.
00:39:53He said, is that what you want to do, darlings?
00:39:57Is that what you want to do?
00:39:58And we said, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:40:00He said, I'll go and get you the money.
00:40:03I had a bit of a problem with trying to sell this to the BBC.
00:40:07The head of comedy at the time was a guy called Geoffrey Perkins,
00:40:09who was a very nice guy.
00:40:11But, you know, something of a traditionalist, you know, Cambridge.
00:40:14And he said, no, it doesn't.
00:40:16No sitcom works without a live audience.
00:40:18No, I don't, you know, we don't think it's going to work.
00:40:24There was lots of doubt around it and we felt down about it.
00:40:28Again, Caroline would be very resolute.
00:40:33Nobody's changing this.
00:40:53Acting on the telly was new to me.
00:41:00It was like, wow, you know, who could work in telly?
00:41:04And she'd be like, telly's full of people with more confidence than talent.
00:41:10And you've got talent.
00:41:14She gave me confidence.
00:41:23Dad, stop fiddling with yourself.
00:41:29I'm not fiddling with myself.
00:41:30Paid a quid for these underpants.
00:41:32Got 50 pence, which took up my arse.
00:41:34Mum, tell him.
00:41:35She's right.
00:41:36Not picking your arse, you're picking your teeth.
00:41:42It's a cliche, but it felt like a family almost from the get-go.
00:41:48It was very important to Caroline to foster an atmosphere of
00:41:51friendliness and collaboration and warmth.
00:41:54It was a show about a family that was sort of constantly
00:41:58ribbing each other and really affectionately
00:42:00sort of giving each other little digs.
00:42:01And that's basically what we were.
00:42:10The script was brilliant.
00:42:12It was just blissful.
00:42:14It was so well written that it was a joy.
00:42:16It didn't really, it just sort of came instinctively.
00:42:21Help yourself to the buffet.
00:42:24Can I get you a ham sandwich?
00:42:25Oh, no, thank you.
00:42:26I'm a vegetarian.
00:42:30Could you have some wafer-thin ham?
00:42:34Could she have wafer-thin ham, Barbara?
00:42:37No.
00:42:39Caroline was in charge and she knew what she wanted, you know.
00:42:43I had a little soft spot for her.
00:42:45She was amazing.
00:42:46She was very, very clever.
00:42:47Very, very talented.
00:42:49What's the matter?
00:42:51I don't know.
00:42:54I can't even remember what I'm supposed to be doing.
00:42:56Oh, my baby book.
00:42:58I'm supposed to be doing my breathing.
00:43:01I can't even remember how to breathe.
00:43:03Oh, come on.
00:43:05You'll be all right, dear.
00:43:09Let's play you a bit of tape, eh?
00:43:12Let's play you a bit of tape, eh?
00:43:23It's wonderful when you get a good script.
00:43:25You can switch from something incredibly moving to something really funny.
00:43:32Denise.
00:43:34Yeah?
00:43:35Are you definitely sure it wasn't just a great big piss move?
00:43:38No, I know it wasn't.
00:43:43Quite often in the show, you can't sit with Caroline.
00:43:46There's a lot of things that set to music and Caroline had an earpiece in,
00:43:50so she's timing her performance brilliantly to the music.
00:43:56How do you remember the first time, your mum?
00:44:00When your mum put you in my arms and I looked at you.
00:44:04Oh, God, you were beautiful and I knew then I'd do anything for you, anything for you.
00:44:16And I loved Denise.
00:44:21That was so real.
00:44:22I could feel her.
00:44:24I said that she was trembling.
00:44:28Honestly, it was as if it was as though she was really having that baby, you know?
00:44:33And obviously that's something that never happened to her in her life.
00:44:37But it all came from there.
00:44:39It didn't come from there.
00:44:41It came from there.
00:44:44Why the hell couldn't I make them out?
00:44:47You'll be a wonderful mother.
00:44:58Dad?
00:44:59If Dave doesn't come back, will you come with me to the hospital?
00:45:05Of course I will.
00:45:08I'll be right there, outside.
00:45:13But your mum will be inside with you.
00:45:15You promise you will, Dad?
00:45:16Of course.
00:45:16You will stay with me?
00:45:19Of course I'll stay with you.
00:45:22I'll always be there for you.
00:45:24Yeah?
00:45:25Always.
00:45:29Hey, Denise.
00:45:33I'm going to be a granddad.
00:45:48I don't think the BBC really understood quite what they had.
00:45:51But a very strange thing happened.
00:45:52It went out on BBC Two and the figures started to go up and up and up and up every week.
00:45:58That doesn't happen.
00:46:00That doesn't happen very often.
00:46:07She'd moved down to London after the first series we were writing in Soho.
00:46:16At that time in London, The Groucho's got all sorts of reputations.
00:46:20But what it did have was an extraordinary collection of creative people.
00:46:25We'd be like, Tuesday night, start of the weekend.
00:46:30We'd be revelling with all sorts of different people.
00:46:35All together in this weird safe space, where you were with other famous-ish people
00:46:41that you could take the piss out of.
00:46:44It was a giddy period for us, you know.
00:46:48She'd get a little compact mirror out, you know, for, put her thing on and she'd be
00:46:53like spying around the room.
00:46:55Oh, that's it!
00:46:57Behind us!
00:46:59Whoever it bloody was, you know.
00:47:03We were supposed to be sort of acting like we belonged there.
00:47:07We never felt we did.
00:47:10The main job of producing The Royal Family was to get them into The Groucho Club
00:47:15and out by one o'clock, so we'd start again the following morning.
00:47:18The bloody hell, Kenton made sure we got on by one o'clock.
00:47:22He'd still be there.
00:47:24He'd be under the table.
00:47:25That would be like sending Colonel Saunders to look after the chickens, really.
00:47:31And the papers quickly picked up that she liked to drink.
00:47:37And, you know, she did.
00:47:40So, we couldn't deny that one.
00:47:43Guys, please.
00:47:44Right, guys, guys, enough on us, please.
00:47:47I remember we'd all been out, everyone drinking, all the same, all drunk,
00:47:50and then coming out and journalists all there with loads of photographers.
00:47:59The worst thing they did was they just hounded her all the time.
00:48:03They just didn't let her go, really.
00:48:05I got kind of a reputation for being a big drinker before I was one.
00:48:09And we'd be going to the BAFTAs and we'd be so giddy.
00:48:12It was all free drink and, you know, we'd have a good few then.
00:48:16And then if we'd won by that time, I'd have had a load.
00:48:19So, but that was just sort of giddiness and excitement.
00:48:23We are blessed with a brilliant...
00:48:26What are we blessed with?
00:48:28We're blessed with something brilliant.
00:48:30Thanks a million.
00:48:32I think I said that before, didn't I?
00:48:34Thanks very, very much.
00:48:38But because I'd stumbled on the speeches and things,
00:48:41I got a kind of reputation.
00:48:42And really, that time, I wasn't drinking absolutely loads.
00:48:50I think it's difficult to deal with life once the tabloids, you know,
00:48:54decide that you are easy meat.
00:48:56And she became a source of great interest and amusement to the tabloids.
00:49:00And she really hated that.
00:49:03I'm just not very good at being a celebrity.
00:49:05And I find all that really hard to deal with.
00:49:11Some of our unhappiness came to the surface when fame came along.
00:49:16She didn't quite know how to process it.
00:49:21Unless you have a thick skin, it can throw you off course and unsettle you.
00:49:31She struggled with depression for a long time.
00:49:36The press intrusion can't have helped.
00:49:41I just couldn't rid myself of this thing inside me that just made me want to cry all the time.
00:49:48I was just so low.
00:49:49And everyone knew it.
00:49:50And, you know, God love all my friends and my family were trying to help me out a bit.
00:49:54But it just wouldn't go.
00:49:59It was like the middle of the night.
00:50:02She was in London and I was in Manchester.
00:50:05I know I was in bed and the phone rang.
00:50:08And she was saying goodbye, really.
00:50:13Sorry.
00:50:20But she just said, I love you and I'm sorry.
00:50:30I'm going.
00:50:31I've taken an overdose.
00:50:35And I said, make yourself sick, make yourself sick, make yourself sick.
00:50:48I had to ring her mum and tell her mum.
00:50:53Her mum rang an ambulance.
00:50:56Luckily, they came and they sort of broke her door down and got her in time.
00:51:08Morning, got the phone call.
00:51:10So obviously, we rushed down there and we went into the flat and everything was, I don't know,
00:51:20it's strange, really, because everything was all flapping about.
00:51:24You know, God, what she'd done this far and that.
00:51:27Did she leave a note?
00:51:28Yeah, she left three, one Patrick, Maureen and myself.
00:51:33Maureen opened hers and obviously...
00:51:41Anyway, I just said, give me a...
00:51:42She said, what are you going to do with these now?
00:51:44I said, I'll tell you what I'll do with them.
00:51:46And I burnt them.
00:51:50I was so drunk, I had no idea.
00:51:52And the next day, I was devastated that I could have done that.
00:51:56And it's so unlike me to, you know, go chopping myself all the time.
00:52:03Then I went into the priory.
00:52:05I went in for depression.
00:52:06And then I'd been in there two days and they said, oh, you have to be in for four weeks.
00:52:10And I was going to be making pots and clay modelling and all.
00:52:13That's what you do when you have a makeover.
00:52:15And then they came in and they said, oh, no, you're not depressed if you're an alcoholic.
00:52:20Come over here to this other bit where the alky's in.
00:52:22And that was awful.
00:52:24And then there was no clay modelling.
00:52:25You just have to go and watch videos of...
00:52:27Well, I mean, it's a brilliant place to go, the priory.
00:52:29You know, I mean, no, no.
00:52:31But that sort of thing.
00:52:35So, yeah, and I was saying I was an alcoholic.
00:52:38And this went on for about two weeks.
00:52:39And they were saying you are.
00:52:41And then I said, I am.
00:52:42Then they went, and then everyone clapped.
00:52:44So I was getting a bit giddy then.
00:52:45I went, oh, I'm a really big alcoholic.
00:52:48Taken by it all.
00:52:49I was like, bloody hell.
00:52:53You're not, are you?
00:52:55They said, yeah, they said I am.
00:52:58I said, well, you can't buy drink as much as you.
00:53:02You've not told them about me, have you?
00:53:06I was a bit shocked.
00:53:11Everybody was saying that she was an alcoholic.
00:53:13She definitely did drink and get drunk because of the stresses
00:53:17and the challenges in her life.
00:53:21Turned out she had bipolar.
00:53:24So she moved back permanently to Manchester.
00:53:27Yeah.
00:53:27That was, and then she was back with her family,
00:53:30with her friends, where she was familiar.
00:53:41Caroline moved into this little bungalow in Timperley.
00:53:45And I thought she needs to be writing and working
00:53:48because it's therapy for her, really.
00:53:52So we said, we'll do a royal family.
00:53:55We'll do a one-off special.
00:53:57We were writing bits of scenes.
00:53:59She was saying, I'm not funny.
00:54:03But knew it was just the depression talking.
00:54:06And it came to a head when she said, you know,
00:54:10lads, I've lost all my confidence.
00:54:12I'm really sorry.
00:54:13I can't do it.
00:54:14I really can't do it anymore.
00:54:17We kept working on it without telling her.
00:54:20And like a month later, I took her the script and said,
00:54:23you know, what do you think of this?
00:54:26And she loved it.
00:54:28And it was like, ah, you know, it was,
00:54:30I can't stop setting me now thinking about it.
00:54:35She loved it.
00:54:36And it kind of ignited something in her again.
00:54:42And of course, then she said,
00:54:43I see what you've done on that bit,
00:54:44but I don't like that bit.
00:54:45And you know, she had to criticise it.
00:54:53Out of the blue, I get a call from Craig.
00:55:00And Craig simply said,
00:55:04Andy, you've got to get on a train and come up to see us.
00:55:08We've got a surprise for you.
00:55:11I said, a nice surprise.
00:55:13He said, oh, yes, you're going to be very happy.
00:55:28I keep a close watch on this heart of mine.
00:55:32I keep my eyes wide open all the time.
00:55:37They said, well, we want to read it to you.
00:55:39So I said, great.
00:55:40So they read it to me.
00:55:43I just cried.
00:55:53How was our little David doing at school?
00:55:56Well, do you know how we thought he had attention deficit disorder?
00:55:59Yeah.
00:56:00Well, it turned out he just couldn't be bothered concentrating.
00:56:03Oh.
00:56:04Could he, Dave?
00:56:05What?
00:56:06Little David, not concentrating.
00:56:09Oh, yeah, he's got attention deficit disorder, Barbara.
00:56:13No, he's not, Dave.
00:56:14He told us that.
00:56:17Oh, yeah, he did, yeah.
00:56:20Who's been in the naughty chair?
00:56:25Oh, are you awake, Nana?
00:56:28Yeah.
00:56:29Who's that?
00:56:32Oh, hello, Denise.
00:56:35Hiya, Nana.
00:56:37Are you awake, Nana?
00:56:39Yeah.
00:56:40Around this time, Caroline lost her grandma, Molly, who she's very close to.
00:56:52Oh, that was with her granny.
00:56:53Yeah.
00:56:53She loved her granny, didn't she?
00:56:54She absolutely loved her granny.
00:56:56I think with her granny, she says that her granny used to put her knickers on the line.
00:57:00Yeah.
00:57:01And when she did her washing, she'd put tea towels over them.
00:57:04Yeah.
00:57:09She had an emotional investment.
00:57:12She was paying homage to a granny who she loved.
00:57:18So, therefore, that was projected onto Liz.
00:57:24This was the moment.
00:57:26Not here, Luciana, my angel, he whispered.
00:57:30Let's wait until Marrakesh.
00:57:33What the bloody hell is Dr Curtis Sinclair playing at?
00:57:37I've got a little stiffy on here and he wants to wait till Marrakesh.
00:57:42David, David, what is a little stiffy?
00:57:50It was such a return to form, you know, it was everything that she, you know, in that
00:57:54script for me, it, I think it's a, I really genuinely think it's a brilliant piece of
00:57:58writing, I do, and I think they performed it brilliantly.
00:58:01Not a burden to you, am I, Barbara?
00:58:05I do love you, Barbara.
00:58:22Everything revolved around the nana in that episode.
00:58:25From the very start, you know, you recognise elements of their character in your own family.
00:58:33That when something happens like that, it touches you, like, on an emotional level,
00:58:38because you're laughing, you think, oh, no, no, no.
00:58:55Denise, how do you spell funeral?
00:59:00Funeral?
00:59:01Yes, spell it, spell it.
00:59:04F-U-N...
00:59:05Yeah, stop, stop there, because that's what I want my funeral to be.
00:59:11I want my funeral to be fun.
00:59:15Oh, nana.
00:59:17And Denise, can we have volley vons?
00:59:21Yeah, yeah.
00:59:24This wasn't a sort of, oh, it's something I've fallen at the bottom of a drawer,
00:59:28let's do this and get a couple of bob.
00:59:30Will you ring up the BBC and see if we can do it?
00:59:32It was like the masterpiece.
00:59:35I really felt that, I really felt that.
00:59:36I felt that they wrote...
00:59:38She wrote herself totally into that.
00:59:41Do you remember, mum, you used to love a snake bite?
00:59:45What is it again?
00:59:45Is it half a cider and half a lager, or half a lager and half a...
00:59:54Mum?
00:59:59Mum?
01:00:00Mum?
01:00:07It's such a delightful mix of pathos and celebrations,
01:00:11so, you know, there's nana, you know, finally dying,
01:00:14but at the same time the last three or four minutes
01:00:16is everybody's dancing around with Ricky on the banjo.
01:00:21It's full of insight, of Caroline's mind.
01:00:25What were her last words, Barbara?
01:00:28Trevor Macdonald.
01:00:30Oh, Barbara, what a fishing tribute to the man.
01:00:35Yeah.
01:00:37Dad?
01:00:45The Royal Family Queen of Sheba.
01:00:48I'd just like to dedicate this award to the members of the Royal Family Queen of Sheba.
01:00:54To the memory of Molly Fallon, Caroline's nana,
01:00:59who passed away last year, and the inspiration to this.
01:01:01And also to Maureen.
01:01:02Caroline can't be here tonight because her mum's not well.
01:01:05So to Maureen, Caroline and Molly, three generations of inspirational women.
01:01:10Thanks a lot.
01:01:11Cheers.
01:01:12Caroline was in her house, in her pyjamas,
01:01:14watching television, which was her favourite thing to do by that time.
01:01:19She was settled, you know, she was really content.
01:01:23That's the word I'd say, really content.
01:01:27The show ended up being more than just the show that won the BAFTA.
01:01:33And it was a show that helped her step towards happiness again, really.
01:01:43So what happened next felt very cruel.
01:01:48But when I was in intensive care, you know, they wash you.
01:01:52And this nurse said, do you want to wash your own fairy?
01:02:01After everything she'd been through already,
01:02:03she was then diagnosed with bladder cancer, which was a massive shock to us all.
01:02:09At the time, she just shaved all her hair, you know, her hair off, didn't she?
01:02:13Yeah.
01:02:14And she basically, you know, we opened the door and she was just there with no hair.
01:02:19I screamed, it was such a shock, but she was laughing her head off.
01:02:22Laughing her head off, you know.
01:02:23In some ways, she sort of made it easier because she never complained, did she, Diane?
01:02:30She never moaned.
01:02:32And I think she probably did that on purpose, you know, making things easier for other people.
01:02:37Yeah.
01:02:38Because she didn't want people to think that she was doing it on purpose.
01:02:41You know, making things easy for other people to deal with as well.
01:02:45Yeah.
01:02:46But I was going to have all these in order, but right at last minute, I couldn't be bothered.
01:02:58She fought the bladder cancer and, well, she thought she'd won.
01:03:05But then, Sledgehammer, it came back and developed into lung cancer.
01:03:18If she texts at all, it was always hysterical about when she lost her hair.
01:03:24I don't know, nobody told me my ears stuck out.
01:03:28I mean, just self-depreciating jokes to make us feel better about her demise.
01:03:40That's her generosity.
01:03:41That's what she gave back.
01:03:44I remember we got a call.
01:03:45She'd found out that she only had two months to live and the doctor told her she was on her own.
01:03:53But she said to me, just tell me.
01:03:55And then, yeah, she was just heartbroken because it was just too much.
01:04:00Two months is nothing, really.
01:04:02Well, I mean, I was just in denial.
01:04:05I just kept saying no, just kept repeating no for some, you know.
01:04:13But there's a lot to be said for denial.
01:04:17And she was like, we had some laughs though, didn't we, Cassie?
01:04:22Yeah.
01:04:26Sorry.
01:04:27Sorry.
01:04:32All she wanted to do was go to Costa Coffee.
01:04:35Yeah.
01:04:35And my daughter, Abi, had bought her a voucher for Costa Coffee.
01:04:39And she wrote to us saying, I want you to go with Auntie Callie and my mum to Costa Coffee.
01:04:45And we actually made it, didn't we?
01:04:47Yes.
01:04:47That was about two weeks before she passed.
01:04:49Yeah.
01:04:51And we took photos in there and she was having a laugh with the staff and everything.
01:04:56We had a couple of lattes each and I'd taken three crunchies.
01:05:01Caroline had about an inch of her crunchy, if that.
01:05:05But we laughed the whole time.
01:05:13She'd have you doing all sorts.
01:05:16Even when she was dying, really, in hospital.
01:05:20And she would say, do a funny walk with you when you get here.
01:05:24I'll be looking for you.
01:05:26So I walked past her hospital window doing a fantastic big
01:05:29John Cleese-esque funny walk on the way in, laughing to myself,
01:05:33amusing myself with everybody looking.
01:05:35And when I got in the room, it wasn't Caroline.
01:05:38They'd moved her.
01:05:39And it was just a poorly old woman and her family.
01:05:44I was mortified.
01:05:45And when I asked where Caroline was, I went in the room and said,
01:05:48where are you?
01:05:49And they said, I've just done a funny walk.
01:05:51And I was like furious.
01:05:53She made a fool out of me again.
01:05:55But she laughed and laughed and laughed.
01:05:57And we start with the sad news that's just broke in the last hour or so,
01:06:13that the actress and scriptwriter Caroline Ahern has died.
01:06:17She was 52 years old.
01:06:19The star revealed in 2014 that she was being treated for lung cancer.
01:06:25I just think a testament to her was her funeral.
01:06:29It was packed.
01:06:32It was a great tribute to Caroline.
01:06:34Like, they brought the coffin in to, I would like to leave this city.
01:06:38Yeah.
01:06:42Most of the crew turned up.
01:06:44Some of them had traveled up from London.
01:06:46She was loved.
01:06:47She was absolutely loved.
01:06:49You can't get better than that.
01:06:51Yeah.
01:06:59Yeah.
01:07:10Yeah.
01:07:10Yeah.
01:07:11Yeah.
01:07:12For me.
01:07:14Yeah.
01:07:19Yeah.
01:07:21I think she'd been delighted to see Stephen Coogan crying his eyes out.
01:07:24I think that would have made her laugh.
01:07:27She would be appalled at the potential in the interview I've just given you.
01:07:33She'd go, oh, look at you, trying to be all like that, you know.
01:07:37Can't we could talk to you for another minute at least?
01:07:41Oh, they did laugh.
01:07:43What did they do, Roy?
01:07:44They did laugh.
01:07:44You see?
01:07:46It's very hard to think of anybody before or since I've worked with her
01:07:50had quite had her ability to capture the human condition
01:07:57and celebrate it and be so joyous about it.
01:08:01The stuff of life was the stuff of comedy for her.
01:08:05Maybe what made her so alive, so creative, is the fact that she was a free spirit.
01:08:14You don't get many carolines till it doesn't do.
01:08:17I think I've only met one in the whole of my career.
01:08:21She will be numero uno, I think, as far as what she brought to my life
01:08:29and what she brought to other people's lives.
01:08:32On a park notice board at home, she had a little quote that she'd ripped out of a newspaper
01:08:40and it was by W.H. Auden and it was,
01:08:46amongst those whom I like or admire, I can find no common denominator
01:08:55but amongst those whom I love, I can.
01:08:59All of them make me laugh.
01:09:02And I thought that said so much about her, but ironically, nobody made us laugh more than her.
01:09:10Jim!
01:09:11Sorry, cut.
01:09:11Oh, you're laughing.
01:09:13I went long.
01:09:15Was that it?
01:09:16That's it, thank you.
01:09:17Thank you both.