Join producer Sara Schechter, director, co-writer and executive producer Matthew López, and actor Taylor Zakhar Perez in the Variety FYC Streaming Room presented by Prime Video for an exclusive “Red, White & Royal Blue” conversation.
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00:00Hi everyone, I am Emily Longoretta, Senior TV Features Editor at Variety.
00:10Thank you all so much for being here today.
00:12We are going to have a lively conversation about Red, White, and Royal Blue, and we are
00:17very excited to be joined by producer Sarah Schechter, co-writer, director, and executive
00:22producer Matthew Lopez, and of course, actor Taylor Zakhar Perez.
00:27Thank you guys so much for joining us.
00:29I'm very excited to talk all things Red, White, and Royal Blue.
00:33I want to kind of just dive in and start at the beginning of when you guys first were
00:37presented with this book, when you read it, what your experience was.
00:40I know I've talked to, I think I've talked to you guys about this before, but Matthew,
00:43let's start with you and when you first read this book and why it was that it resonated
00:46with you.
00:47Yeah.
00:48My agent sent it to me in early 2020 and thinking that I might want to turn it into
00:52a musical and I read it and I was like, well, yeah, maybe, but let's talk about the movie
00:58and that's how I found out that Greg and Sarah had the rights and they'd set it up
01:04on Amazon and I basically just sort of like made a nuisance of myself with Sarah Schechter
01:08until, which really set the tone of our entire relationship, I think.
01:15I basically, I basically shamelessly lobbied for the job.
01:19I loved the book from the moment I started reading it.
01:21I loved the characters.
01:23I loved Casey's writing.
01:24I loved everything about it and I just knew I couldn't sleep until I got to make the film
01:32and luckily, you know, Sarah slipped me an Ambien and told me I had the job.
01:38I love that.
01:39Go ahead, Sarah.
01:40How about you?
01:41I did not drug him.
01:42Let's just-
01:43No, she did not.
01:44I made that up.
01:45I made that up.
01:46Yeah.
01:47No, we, I first heard about the book long before it was published.
01:49My exec Mike McGrath read it first and he came into my office, he's like, I read this
01:53book.
01:54It's, he's like, I'm a little nervous to email you about it because it's kind of dirty.
01:59And yeah, so he's like, so it's like this great love story, but it's like very steamy.
02:07And so I can't really summarize all of it without like maybe breaking HR rules.
02:14And then I read it, Greg read it, we all like fell in love with it.
02:17And there was several parties sort of chasing Casey for the rights because it was so clearly
02:25just going to be a fantastic film if done well.
02:28And we were very lucky.
02:30We teamed up with Amazon and, and Casey ended up trusting us, which was incredible.
02:37And we're grateful to them forever for that.
02:40And Amazon was also just like so supportive and really understood immediately what it
02:45could be.
02:46And so, you know, they flew to Colorado to meet Casey.
02:51And so it was just like, from the beginning, we really were passionate and excited.
02:54And that was before the book became a big book.
02:58But it wasn't a surprise that it became a big book because it, you know, it's just so
03:03fun and so good.
03:05Yeah, for sure.
03:06And then Taylor, had you read it?
03:08Were you, were you aware of it before you were cast?
03:12I was.
03:13I was unaware of it.
03:14Our mutual friend.
03:15Yes, our mutual friend sent me the book and said, you need to read this because they're
03:20going to start casting it.
03:22And I said, OK.
03:23So I read it on my way to New York and I was bawling, flying home.
03:26And I said, OK, maybe I should, you know, read on this project.
03:30And so I think that was January or February.
03:33And then I didn't wind up getting cast until mid-May of the same year.
03:38So, you know, as most actors do, we don't find out about projects until they're long
03:44underway into development.
03:46And so Matthew and Sarah, how many years did you guys have this before you guys, it was
03:51going to start going into production?
03:53Three years, maybe.
03:54Three years.
03:55Well, it started before COVID.
03:57So, yeah, maybe 2019.
04:01I don't know.
04:02Taylor, it's a blur.
04:03It's all blurs.
04:04Yeah.
04:05So I feel like there's so many different methods to adapting a book at this point.
04:11Obviously, there's series and film and Matthew, like you said, a musical.
04:14I mean, there's so many different options.
04:16What made the movie the right format?
04:18Like what was it about this that you thought, like, maybe this is the right way to do it
04:21rather than an episodic, rather than a musical first, like things like that?
04:25Well, I think it was just so, like, so clearly it's such a beautiful beginning, middle and
04:29end.
04:30And there is such a great conflict.
04:33And it needed the scale, I think, of a film and, you know, that so many of the obstacles
04:38are external.
04:39So it felt like film was the right format.
04:43But I mean, Matthew.
04:44Yeah.
04:45Well, I mean, when I came on, it was already a film and I actually was very excited to
04:50find out that they wanted to turn it into a feature because, yeah, I agree with Sarah.
04:56I think that there's just something that like it's reading it, thinking about it, it just
05:00sort of felt like if they don't make them like this anymore, kind of a book.
05:04And I was hoping to make that kind of a film.
05:07There were days when I was adapting it, but I was looking at all these things that I couldn't
05:10include and I was wishing that maybe we were doing a limited series.
05:14But ultimately, there's something I think special about the limited timeframe of a two
05:22hour film that you've got to sort.
05:24There's an urgency to it and it makes things precious and ultimately there's no other way
05:29that any of us would want to have made it other than as a feature.
05:33Yeah.
05:34It's interesting that you said that, that there is a such a constrained time because
05:38there's no there's not one scene that's like a fluff scene that you want.
05:42You can just like, oh, I'm going to run to the bathroom.
05:43Like, no, there's none of that.
05:44Like every scene you want to watch, which is an important part of making a good film.
05:49Let's talk a little about casting, because I know it kind of started with Nick Gallantine.
05:53So like what can you talk about kind of the process, Sarah and Matt, about finding him
05:58first and kind of building it and why he was the right Henry?
06:02Yeah, I mean, we worked with two brilliant casting directors, an American and a Brit
06:07because it was such a sort of mixed cast.
06:11And we just we read a lot of people, which is sort of a process that I learned from television.
06:16And but it was Greg Berlanti was like, hey, that guy, Nick, the one the one that was the
06:22prince in the Amazon Cinderella movie, that's the guy.
06:25And so sort of like, we brought Nick in yet and they're like, oh, no, he's self taping
06:29now.
06:30And I had known Nick had read for me like when he for the first time he ever came to
06:35L.A. and I was like, oh, this kid's really special.
06:37But sometimes when you when you're casting, you kind of clock actors and, you know, someday
06:43like they're not right for this part, but there's definitely going to be something for
06:47them and they will definitely be they'll definitely they're going to be a star.
06:55So that's how I felt about Nick.
06:57And so we were just really lucky once he came in, it seemed he seemed like he seemed right.
07:03And I think we were pretty sure right away.
07:05But then finding Alex was much harder because it's such a dynamic, external, charming, smart
07:15and just had to be so many things.
07:19So and, you know, I think British actors are sort of, you know, it's in their blood to
07:24become princes.
07:25But I think to an American prince is it's a it's harder.
07:30So we were.
07:31And then once we when Taylor and Nick read together is when we knew we had a movie.
07:36And it was just obvious within seconds, I think Matthew and I were texting each other.
07:41It was like, OK, good for you.
07:43OK, let's go make the movie now.
07:44We got it.
07:45Taylor, what was can you talk a little about your audition process?
07:48Yeah, well, what Sarah failed to mention was that I had auditioned for her for probably
07:54the last seven years, nonstop.
07:57David never showed me ever, ever.
08:01He always said I was going to step out of the room.
08:04I'll be right back.
08:05You should definitely keep the cameras going.
08:09So finally, you know, auditioning for Sarah and, you know, a project working just like
08:14this.
08:15Barely.
08:16You're so busy making movies in South Africa.
08:18You're so busy.
08:21I think what I had my first my first call with Matthew, February, maybe sometime and
08:28then by producer session, maybe like March.
08:31And then are you on the COVID audition that I was doing?
08:35I was like, there was this group, this cohort of actors auditioning for this movie, and
08:39they were all having to put up with me hacking up a long.
08:44You're like in a little cottage, right?
08:45And like, oh, yeah, I was like, yeah, that you were one of the COVID calls.
08:50Yeah.
08:52And so it was like a five month process.
08:53And I want to say, May, I'm on the East Coast and I'm at my cousin's wedding.
09:01And David Rappaport calls me and he said, hey, Sarah Schecter wants to chat with you
09:08about this project.
09:09And I said, oh, I got auditioned for that so long ago.
09:12And like I met with Matthew and he's like, yeah, it's like they're really going.
09:16They're trying to find their Alex and they're like they need to they want to talk to you.
09:20And I said, OK, so stepped out of my cousin's wedding like legit.
09:24I think I might have missed.
09:25I now pronounce you husband and wife because Matthew was in London.
09:29And I, you know, just the timing, I was like, you guys, I'm so sorry.
09:32So I had a great chat with Sarah, I had a great chat with Matthew.
09:35And then I flew back two days later and and had the camera read with Nick on Zoom in my
09:41sister's apartment.
09:42I remember setting up my laptop on her kitchen island with like four books underneath it.
09:47And I was like, just be quiet, just be quiet.
09:51And then they said, hey, the next day, can you get to London like in four days?
09:56I think it was like three days.
09:57Like, can you get there tomorrow?
09:58It was fast.
09:59It was very, very fast.
10:00We were trying to get you to London without you going back to L.A., but you were like,
10:05I need things.
10:06And I was like, I guess.
10:07You did.
10:08And I brought three suitcases and I'm glad I did.
10:11Yeah.
10:12Oh, my gosh.
10:13Well, it's such a whirlwind to hear the side of it, because for us as viewers, we see this
10:18amazing chemistry on screen.
10:20We see this story that looks like, oh, these two people have known each other for years.
10:23And I mean, by the time we get into it, but I guess it's I'm curious what it was about.
10:29Such a weird thing to say.
10:30Zoom chemistry read that worked and that you guys had that chemistry that Matt and Sarah
10:36that you guys saw and were like, oh, this works.
10:38I mean, I was dubious of the idea to begin with.
10:41I was pushing really hard to do an in-person chemistry read because but I was in London
10:47and Taylor, you were like all over the United States and it just it just wasn't like this
10:53is not happening.
10:54But I had.
10:55Yeah.
10:56I'm fortunate enough to make a lot of things during covid and, you know, felt this responsibility
11:02to make things so that my like crews that I love had jobs.
11:05And so you realize there's a lot you can tell.
11:08I mean, there's obviously nothing like being in a room with actors, but there is so much
11:14you can get.
11:16Yeah, I will.
11:17I will admit that I was dubious and I ended up being proven wrong on that because I think
11:21that what one of the things we do is that as the.
11:25No, no, no, no, no.
11:26I take that back.
11:27I never said that.
11:28I never said that.
11:29It's possible.
11:30I might have been wrong.
11:31No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
11:32It's possible.
11:33I might have been wrong.
11:34We're looking into it.
11:35I'll let you know.
11:36Oh, OK.
11:37I.
11:38It's tough.
11:39It's tough to be on Zoom with another actor because even just in a conversation with a
11:44friend or something like this, there's always that bit of a lag.
11:47And when you're in person acting, it's just so much easier because, you know, you get
11:52to play off each other right away, opposed to having that maybe half a second, that moment
11:57that you're like, did they say something?
12:00Did they add something?
12:01You know, and you're afraid to look away because, you know, when you are acting like or when
12:05you are talking to someone, you're not always looking directly at them.
12:08You know, you're looking to the side and you're gesturing.
12:10And so when you're on Zoom with somebody, you're like, did they just go?
12:15Is it my turn?
12:16OK.
12:17OK.
12:18No, no.
12:19Go ahead.
12:20Go ahead.
12:21So then there's also like a little bit of a like that, I think, enhances the play a
12:22bit.
12:23And especially with this kind of project where there were a lot of comedic elements where
12:27it kind of broke the ice a bit quicker because.
12:33Nothing was perfect.
12:34Yeah.
12:35There's an awkwardness that is the same as when you meet someone in real life.
12:39And so, yeah, and I think didn't you and Nick talk on the phone briefly very early
12:43on?
12:44No.
12:45That was just.
12:46Oh, I thought we were trying.
12:47You know, you're supposed to.
12:49And then and then he was like filming bottoms or something.
12:52Yeah.
12:53But it worked out.
12:54So, you know, the first time I think you two were in a room together was when we did our
12:58first rehearsal.
12:59Right.
13:00Like, yeah, I mean, we the thing that we were very fortunate to get was two weeks of rehearsals,
13:05which is like unheard of.
13:07And I went to shake my hand and I gave him a hug.
13:10I was like, come on, dude, like we're going to we're going to do something pretty intense
13:14for the next rehearsals.
13:16Got short rehearsals, got cut down because then because of COVID, I got sick for everything
13:21because then you got sick.
13:22But it was the last couple of days.
13:23But I will I'll be honest with you, like I could see it on the zoo.
13:29And then when they got into a room together to start rehearsing, it was pretty instantaneous.
13:35And whether or not it was, you know, some actors will just decide to get along because
13:41that's just a smart thing to do.
13:43Right.
13:44And it's like, we'll figure out each other's personalities later.
13:47Let's just leap to best friends and then we'll sort of we'll fill in the blanks that are
13:52due to like that from the moment I was like, can we rehearse, please?
13:58And it was really fun to see how excited they were to start start working on the film.
14:04And those two weeks, I think, cemented what we suspected was there and it really let it
14:12blossom.
14:13So by the time we got on set for the first scene, which was the scene in the French Bistro,
14:18these two had two weeks of history together, two weeks of, you know, figuring things out,
14:25two weeks of just talking about what did you do yesterday?
14:27Oh, I did this, you know, and getting to know each other.
14:31There was this ease that they naturally had that that we were then very fortunate enough
14:39to then tease out.
14:40And so I think the chemistry was natural and the chemistry was evident from the beginning.
14:45And then Amazon and Sarah, you know, Sarah and Greg fought for the right to just spend
14:51two weeks in a room like tinkering.
14:53And it was like that all those things combined.
14:58You see on screen.
15:00We're also just very lucky, I will say, that we our cast was like filled with just lovely
15:07humans, you know, and it's not always the case, but like we just had such great and
15:13everyone loved the book.
15:15And, you know, there's so many dog-eared copies of the book laying around set.
15:20And just I think everyone was excited to be a part of it.
15:24Taylor carried the copy of the book around like this, like a Talmudic scholar.
15:29He was like, it was dog-eared.
15:31It was highlighted.
15:34And then had everyone sign it.
15:36Yeah, that's right.
15:37The cool part was like, to Sarah's point, one of our camera ops who was on Love Actually,
15:43he said this was the best set I've been on since I was on that project.
15:47No, it was about time.
15:48It was about time.
15:49Remember?
15:50Or maybe it was somebody else.
15:51Oh, no, let's say Love Actually.
15:54We love Love Actually, but I'll take about time as well.
15:56The driver, it was one of the drivers, too.
16:00He said that.
16:01He was like, the last time I was on a set this happy was about time.
16:05Again, Richard Curtis.
16:06So obviously, maybe he should have directed it.
16:12That's a good thought.
16:13I'm going to file that away.
16:14But no, I shouldn't really do that.
16:16And then also, like Nick had fan art where he was like trying to match his hair color
16:21to the fan art.
16:23Because, again, we just felt this responsibility to Casey and to the fans of the book to really
16:28deliver for them.
16:30Yeah, so that was kind of what I wanted to get into, is that the pressure of adapting
16:34Beloved IP.
16:35I mean, because this book for me, I've been one of my best friends and I've been texting
16:40about it for years.
16:41So when we heard that it was going to be a movie, we were talking about it for so long.
16:45And then there's millions of those people.
16:48So I guess how did you kind of venture between that pressure to, one, make the fans happy,
16:55to make the author happy and also make something that's your own?
16:59Because there is something that you want to make it unique.
17:02I think the fact that we were all fans of the book helped.
17:05And I think especially for Matthew, who, you know, writing and kind of capturing the tone
17:11as the director, I think there is a it was always in service of the book because he loved
17:16the book.
17:17And I think you feel that, I think, among everyone.
17:21I knew that there was no way I wasn't going to disappoint fans of the book with some
17:27decision I made, whether or not it was to sort of choose to exclude things from the
17:33book or change things from the book.
17:36I knew that that small disappointments were inevitable, but I was willing to risk those
17:43in order to create sort of like a much more broad and macro enjoyment of the film by the
17:51fans. I was like really protecting the ultimate experience.
17:54The thing that I kept coming back to was, you know, this thing is going to look different
17:58from the book. This thing is going to operate differently in the book.
18:01But what was most important to me is at the end of the film, people had the same feeling
18:07that they had at the end of the book, right?
18:08I wanted to, even though the journey was going to be slightly different, I wanted people
18:13to finish the film feeling the exact same way they did when they finished reading the
18:18book. And that, for me, the feelings behind the book, recapturing for myself the feelings
18:23that I had the first time I read it, that's what I was going for.
18:28No, I think for Greg Berlanti and I have both been really fortunate to work on so many
18:33things that have beloved underlying material, whether it's comic books.
18:38So I think we just really take that seriously.
18:40It's part of why I think we read as many people as we do is really trying to capture
18:45that, like casting Riverdale was equally difficult and required like so much thought and
18:51care. So it's like anytime people have ideas in their heads of what the cast is supposed
18:58to be or how it's supposed to feel, you know, you want to challenge that it's a different
19:01medium. You want it to have its own life, its own soul.
19:04But I think if you start from a place of fandom, it's a lot easier to.
19:10And then also to be able to defend the changes.
19:12Right. I think, too.
19:14And again, going back to the casting as well, it's like everybody had their idea about who
19:19Alex and Henry were, who Henry and Alex should be played by.
19:23And I knew that, again, like all of these opinions were were present, but they were
19:30not as important to me as our instincts and our gut when we when we put Taylor and Nick
19:38together. And, you know, I for the longest time until I started to get to know them on
19:43set, I couldn't think of them other than as Alex and Henry.
19:48You know, they really did become those characters in ways that that you just sort of you
19:54pray that that's going to happen when you when you make something like this.
19:57And so that to have just sort of everybody has a million different ideas in their minds
20:02about who these characters are. But you only have the opportunity to present one version
20:06of it. We were very fortunate that the version that we shared with the world was a version
20:12that really made sense, both in terms of our needs as filmmakers and as the needs of the
20:17fans. Yeah, absolutely.
20:18And Taylor, I mean, for you, can you talk a little bit about the pressure?
20:22Did you feel the pressure to be this character that I mean, no matter who reads the book,
20:27you're going to imagine this character is different.
20:28That's part of reading and why we all love it.
20:30So was that did you feel that as well?
20:33Totally. But it was so helpful having the book almost as a Bible and then having Matthew's
20:39script as a second Bible, you know, like that's the main Bible, which is Matthew's script.
20:44But then being able to go back to that source material and kind of Taylor could say, you
20:48know, because when you're on set, the script is Bible and that's what you have to go by.
20:52And it doesn't matter what was in the book, because what we're choosing to tell in this
20:55hour and was it Matthew three hour movie?
20:58No, two minutes in this, like, if I ever say anything in an interview in my life.
21:08And and so we're very lucky because as an avid reader, I do see adaptations and I go,
21:13oh, gosh, this was a bad adaptation.
21:15I didn't hold up to the book.
21:18I prefer the book. And I think Casey and I were in an interview the other day and they
21:24were saying what they were commenting on all the little idiosyncratic things that Alex
21:30does is little isms.
21:32And I'd never heard anyone talk about it.
21:35And I was so grateful that they had said something because I did reread the book and try
21:40so hard to find those little specific things that Alex would do that personally as an
21:46actor is so much fun because it gives you all those extra little details to think about
21:51and focus on.
21:52But it also gives the fans that it's kind of tantalizing because you're like, oh, my
21:56gosh, I see.
21:58I knew Alex would do that.
21:59I knew Henry would do that.
22:00And he would say that's so Alex.
22:01And it's funny, like in the Instagram comments, people will send me screenshots of like
22:06this is so Alex coded.
22:07And I'm like, it's not this is not Alex coded.
22:10But it cracks me up because you kind of bring those things into the character that are so
22:15specific that the readers really pick up on.
22:18And I was so grateful that Casey mentioned that because as an actor, you never want to
22:21talk about, you know, the craft and the process because it just kind of sounds a little bit
22:27too extra, I would say.
22:31And then when they brought it up, I was I was pleasantly surprised because Nick and
22:36I really tried really hard to have this conversation with each other about do you think they would
22:41do this in this moment?
22:42How would they?
22:43Matthew was right there with us going, yes, yes, yes, no, no, no.
22:45I think, well, let's discuss that.
22:47And Sarah and Brie from Amazon, like it was incredible to have such a collaborative process
22:53where everybody was so it was just as invested as you like.
22:57It wasn't just a paycheck.
22:59It wasn't just like a notch in their belt.
23:01It was they knew how much this project meant to them and how much it would mean to the
23:05world.
23:06And we had to do this right.
23:07I also just think like in this business, in the medium of television and film, and especially
23:14television, because it's like in your house.
23:18It's one of the sort of frustrations is if you do your job really well as a producer,
23:22as a writer, as a director, as an actor, it looks really easy.
23:26It looks like it wasn't that much work, but it was so much work.
23:30And I think but that's the magic of it is it shouldn't feel it should just you should
23:34be able to access the emotion and the comedy and the experience and the adventure.
23:39But yeah, like so, you know, Taylor, it was you made you made choices every second.
23:46But you just made it look really natural.
23:48So now, you know, people don't realize how hard it was.
23:51Well, I think the best thing about working with Sarah, too, is.
23:55You know what you want, you're very black and white, but you don't take emotion out
24:00of it. I think you've done this for such a long time and you're such a pro that you
24:05kind of just know what works, but you're not so when you make a decision, it's not
24:11just because I said so.
24:12But you let us you allow us to talk through it with you and allow us to understand your
24:18process of getting to that conclusion, which a lot of producers don't do.
24:22You know, it's either, you know, yes, no.
24:25And that's it. It's like a parent sometimes, like because Taylor and Matthew really
24:30want to do this, like all in mime and black and white.
24:33And so I'm with that and, you know, shoot at least two hours before I was like, I
24:37don't think it's the best idea.
24:39Oh, yes.
24:40Roma part two.
24:42Yeah, I was I was definitely doing like Seventh Seal kind of thing.
24:46I was doing really, you know, like high contrast black and white.
24:50Yeah.
24:52Matthew, when I any time I am prepping to talk to you and I read that this is your
24:57directorial debut, I literally have to like remind myself because I don't understand
25:02how and because because this was so it was just so the storytelling was so well done.
25:08So I'm curious for you what the biggest challenge was when you did take that on,
25:13because there is a lot of moving parts.
25:15And like you guys just said, I mean, it looks so beautiful and effortless on screen,
25:19but it's very difficult to make make a film.
25:22So I'm curious for you what the biggest challenge was.
25:25The first thing I'd say is that thank you, but, you know, I think that if you're
25:30making your first film, it's an ass kicker no matter what, if you're working on a
25:33scale like this or you're working on a scale like this, it's all new.
25:36You've never done this before.
25:37You're relying on the expertise of the people around you.
25:40So I think part of part of this, the thing that got me through the experience of making
25:47the film is is that I didn't know how much of a high wire I was actually on compared
25:54to maybe the five million dollar movie that I could have made as my first first film.
25:59Right. But it's certainly not the number of eyeballs that we're going to be on this
26:03because of the popularity of the book.
26:06So I had the pleasure of ignorance in many ways about how the film was made.
26:14What I will say, and I think the answer really is, is I was surrounded by really
26:19talented and experienced people and we did have a fairly unified vision for the for
26:26the film. It was my responsibility to come in as the director and and sort of present
26:32this vision. And and and yet we all sort of, you know, Sarah and I really sort of saw
26:39the same pair of eyes.
26:41And then where we saw it differently, it was a it was a genuine like exchange of ideas
26:49and that, you know, like the best idea should win because it's not about our egos.
26:53It's about what's right for the film.
26:56Yeah. I mean, like the hardest part about making the film, I think, was just learning
27:01on the job. Right.
27:02It was like it was not I had enough experience.
27:07I have enough experience in theatre to know that it is perfectly legitimate to say, I
27:11don't know. I think the big differences in theatre, you can say, I don't know.
27:15And then come up with the answer a week or two later.
27:17And on a film set, you have seven seconds to answer the question.
27:22So I think, yeah, it was just learning, learning on the job.
27:27But again, you know, you've got you've got this incredible crew.
27:33We had an amazing camera crew and an amazing cinematographer and Stephen Goblet.
27:38And it wasn't just Taylor Nick.
27:39Of course, it was it was Emma Thurman.
27:41It was it was it was Stephen Fry.
27:44It was it was Cliff.
27:45It was Rachel and Sarah Shahi.
27:47And I can I could go on and on.
27:50I was given some really great talent to work with.
27:54And so I feel like it's like making my first painting and being taken to the best art
27:59supply store on Earth.
28:02And I if I was going to fail, I knew I couldn't blame it on anybody but myself.
28:07But I also like I think I love working with first time filmmakers, especially when
28:11they're like Matthew and they're obviously so talented, but are willing to say, OK, I
28:16can we just go over here for a second because I don't know what to do right now,
28:20because the worst part is when people are like, I got this.
28:22No problem. And they don't because you can you're the Pied Piper.
28:26You're leading people off a cliff if you're not careful.
28:28But I think we're really first of all, Amazon was amazing and they they let us have
28:32more time than, you know, if it had been a director done in a ton of times, which gave
28:37us like enough room to find it.
28:42And I think we just we hired really well.
28:44Right. So Michael Constable is our line producer.
28:47And then the crew and then Stephen, like I remember talking to Stephen Goldblatt, our
28:51DP, and he'd been teaching at Sundance and I was like like and he'd worked with
28:55Mike Nichols. So he understood theater and he understood like how to help people
28:59achieve their potential, which is what Matthew working with the DP was the first
29:04time he'd had that dynamic in relationship.
29:06So just trying to find really experienced people who shared the same vision and
29:12you know, attitude.
29:14Yeah, I'll never forget the one truly the first really gnarly day we had on set,
29:20which was New Year's Eve.
29:21And it was about a week and a half into filming.
29:23And it was we started with it.
29:25There was a huge rainstorm and it was our Covid tent.
29:29We ended up being a super spreader event.
29:30But we we ended up starting really late because of lots of different issues out of
29:36our control. And and and we just never got ahead.
29:40And we just had to like push and push and push.
29:42And it was just one of those like, you know, sweat through your shirt, let it dry,
29:47sweat through it again kind of day.
29:50And I remember at the end of that not fun day, you said to me, Sarah, like you
29:56learned a valuable lesson in this, in that you have another you have another year
30:00that you can work in. And while it was not fun and I'm grateful it was only one day
30:05out of a 45 day shoot, it was it was an incredible learning lesson to sort of fail
30:13on your feet and still have to go back and keep working.
30:17And that I mean, you know, Steven Daldry was one of my huge mentors in my in my
30:23life, making the inheritance with him.
30:25And one of the things that I love about Steven is he says out loud, he goes, I love
30:29being wrong. I love being wrong because it just it keeps your ego in check and it
30:35just sort of annihilate assumptions.
30:37And your assumptions are usually the things that make things bad.
30:40And it's when you can see that your assumption is wrong and then have to think on
30:47your feet to make a new decision based on this new information.
30:52It's exciting. You lose a lot of T-shirts, but you end up, you know, usually,
30:58hopefully doing good work.
30:59Yeah, well, that's what magic is.
31:01That's, you know, it's in the exceeded expectations.
31:06With Matthew, some days we would be talking about, hey, Taylor, can we talk about what
31:10we're doing tomorrow? So, yeah, sure.
31:11So we talk about the setup and everything and then the next day would come and he
31:15would say something different. And I go, wait, didn't we just run through that
31:18yesterday? He goes, well, I spoke to Steve and you know, and there was always out of
31:24that. Well, it was a long, well, every single time there was no exactly like I get
31:30no ego. It was like, I want to do this.
31:32But if that's going to take us 45 minutes back and we have so many setups to shoot
31:35today. And so it was like always calculating in his mind how to do this the most
31:41efficient way without ego and to just get it done.
31:44And, you know, and as an actor, too, you had to go, OK, so just erase what I thought we
31:50were doing today and do it again.
31:51And when I was like on the SAG panel and I was talking about I think I was talking
31:57about working on this project and I said, you just have to be able to take whatever
32:03is thrown at you. Like you have to get your acting to a level where you're not going to
32:08be thrown off when you're giving a different note that you've been practicing for two
32:12days. Like that's and that's what Matthew was really strengthening as his first time
32:18director is just going, OK, pivot, OK, pivot.
32:21And it's just like really cool to see.
32:25I know we're almost out of time and I want to kind of just wrap up by asking if there's
32:30anything specific that you learned on this project that you will take to future projects,
32:34including the sequel.
32:37Oh, my God, I think you learn every day.
32:40That's what's fun. You know, I think the biggest thing I learned from this, from
32:45making this film.
32:47Especially when you're making this kind of film is is that it's this kind of movie
32:53making, especially it's about the heart and it's about these two characters and these,
32:57you know, you got to find the thing that it's about and you have to find not just what
33:02it's about story wise or thematically.
33:04You have to understand what the what the engine of the thing is.
33:07And the engine of this film was Taylor and Nick and those two characters.
33:14And we learned that in writing it, you know, so many scenes just went if they're not in
33:18it, they don't belong. So many scenes went in the editing process.
33:20If they're not, if it doesn't directly influence their story, it's out of the film.
33:25I think that there is a kind of essentialism that I learned making this film, even on a
33:31big film like this, that essentialism in storytelling, especially in film, is will
33:40carry carry you through and you have to just sort of figure out what that essential
33:44element is. I would say one thing that I really focused on that I'm continuing to
33:50take on is the showing and not telling aspect of storytelling and also
33:58understanding that kind of piggybacking on Matthew is it's not about you personally,
34:06like whatever you're bringing onto the set, like leave it at the door, because once you
34:11get in your trailer, get through hair and makeup and get on set, it is all about the
34:15characters. Everything you do is in service of the characters, the story and the film
34:20as a whole. And if you're in this industry for any other reason than that,
34:29you're going to have a tough time.
34:31Yeah, pretty awesome. Sarah, how about you?
34:34I would just I mean, I think you learn on everything that you do and which is great.
34:40And if you stop learning, that's a problem. But I'd say something I learned on this
34:44film is like, you know, is to protect that core essential kind of like the eternal
34:51flame of what the project is, because it continues to evolve.
34:53Like what Matthew and I thought the project was when we were before prep, we're just
34:57looking at a screenplay is different than once you're prepping it, once you're making
35:00it. And then when you're in post, you're you're redefining it.
35:03You have to re envision what you what all your expectations were.
35:09So I think you just have to hold fast to the essential truth of it, which is what another
35:15way of saying what I think Taylor and and Matthew said.
35:18But I think also just like work with talented people.
35:21That's not a that's not a genius insight, but it really helps.
35:26It really helps. Yeah.
35:28Thank you guys so much for being here today.
35:30I really appreciate it and congrats again on Red, White and World.