Merseyside Detectives - The Murders of Ashley and Olivia Episode 2
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00:00Liverpool is a city in shock. In the past week, it's seen violent killings, two of those
00:16killings in people's homes. I've got nearly 30 years service in the police. I've never
00:22seen this before. Two murders in two days. What's going on here? The shooting took the
00:28life of 28-year-old Ashley Dale. There's no obvious reason why she should be shot.
00:35And they've been together for around six years. He won't give us anything in relation to who
00:40was responsible. His behaviour suggests that it's something he's involved in. The hunt
00:49is on to find the killer of Olivia Prackle-Bell, nine years old and killed in the most shocking
00:56circumstances. There's a real determination to kill here. This is the man we are hunting
01:05for. The man that murdered Olivia.
01:26OK, Cheryl, can you tell us a little bit about Olivia so that people can understand
01:35what Olivia was like?
01:41She was amazing. She loved life. She was my little shadow. She went everywhere with me.
01:53She may well have only been nine, but she packed a lot in them nine years.
02:12We were talking about going to get her a new uniform for school. But I didn't get that
02:21chance to go and get her a school uniform.
02:39Merseyside police say they won't rest until those responsible for killing Olivia Prackle-Bell
02:44are behind bars.
02:46This killer is still out there and that's why Cheryl Paul-Bell has made this emotion
02:51appeal and she's addressed her daughter's killer directly.
02:58You know you've done wrong, so you need to own up. Like I've taught my kids, you do something
03:08wrong, you own up to it.
03:16Good morning, everybody. Thank you very much for your time and turning in for us. This
03:26is the murder investigation in relation to Olivia Prackle-Bell, whose photograph I'm
03:32sure needs no introduction. This is the person we are working for and why we are here this
03:37morning.
03:40Detectives have made a breakthrough in their hunt for the killer of Olivia Prackle-Bell.
03:45CCTV examination has shown that on the night in question, the gunman has made his way to
03:52the area of Princess Drive and we'll just show a very brief clip of it. What we know
03:57then is he's contacted two men who were by the shops. These men make over to him. The
04:03gunman can be seen crouching down between two vehicles before crossing over Princess
04:09Drive. The males on the bikes come along here, cross over Princess Drive, clearly engage
04:15with some sort of conversation with the gunman and one of them returns in between the two
04:19vehicles where he spends about 20 seconds out of sight, off the bike and presumably
04:25on his hands and knees. He then re-emerges, crosses over the road and cycles down Princess
04:32Drive. We believe he's taken the guns that were used in the murder of Olivia and moved
04:39them from the gunman on the area of Princess Drive and took them to a safe house. These
04:45two weapons are probably the hottest property in terms of criminal property in the UK at
04:51this moment in time. This could be the single largest influencing factor in getting a conviction
04:57on this job.
05:01Police officers are deployed to raid the cyclist's address and a neighbouring property
05:05belonging to a criminal associate.
05:07Right, so, Black Tea Mansion, County Fountain Mansion. I want a D13 and an MOE kit, please.
05:16ASAP.
05:17RCTSC, 30 seconds.
05:1830 seconds, yes, yes.
05:19Confirmed. I still want the plan on Norville. Two of you to approach.
05:33Let's go, come on.
05:36We've got boots.
05:39Yes, yes, yes, yes.
05:46Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes,
06:05yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes,
06:13yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes,
06:19yes, yes, yes.
06:20I'm clear.
06:21Yeah, Roger. Thank you.
06:31Forensics teams search the property. And the cyclist is brought in for questioning.
06:39We know from CCTV that he's had a conversation with the government. And we really need to
06:44understand what that's about. And more importantly, we need to know who the government is that
06:48he's had a conversation with.
06:50I just do need to inform you that as well as being recorded, the interview is being
06:59video recorded. And there's also a live uplink that may be being monitored. Do you understand
07:05that?
07:06Yeah.
07:08We are pursuing people to do something that they've never probably done before and assist
07:14and talk to the police. The individual involved has grown up in the community. He will understand
07:20the impact this murder has had. He must be tussling and a real difficult dilemma for
07:28him, whether he tells us who it was who he's spoken to.
07:33How did you do that? Because you've taken something from the government. You've taken
07:42a weapon from them.
07:43No comment.
07:44Is that true? Is that what you've done?
07:46No comment.
07:47Was that prearranged that you would do that?
07:49No comment.
07:54Is that your bike?
07:55No comment.
07:56Have you borrowed that off someone?
07:58No comment.
08:00Are you denying that's you?
08:02No comment.
08:03Would you say that's you?
08:04No comment.
08:07Had you arranged to be there to assist the person who killed Olivia?
08:13No comment.
08:16Have you hidden the gun that was used to kill Olivia?
08:18No comment.
08:21Where's that gone now?
08:22No comment.
08:23No comment.
08:26Are you aware Olivia, nine-year-old, is dead? Are you aware of that?
08:30No comment.
08:31So we've been asked to show you this short video which was an appeal from the Asheside
08:37Police.
08:40She was amazing. She loved life. She never, never stopped talking.
08:47I watch one of these the most because I can hardly hear the talk.
08:54If anyone is hiding these guns, they need to speak up because they need to be off these streets.
09:05No one, no one at all should have to go through this.
09:10I mean, I think it's fair to say, you know, it's upsetting, yeah.
09:17I'm disgusted with watching stuff like that because I don't know anything about it, but
09:22I'm going to say there's no comment.
09:24I thought it's one more matter of emotional distress to my clients, which is bordering
09:34on the rest of my clients. I will walk out of this interview.
09:40OK, I'm going to ask you, how do you feel about the death of Olivia?
09:45No comments.
09:46Would you want that person caught?
09:50No comments.
09:51OK.
09:52So the time is now 16.34. I need someone to come and conclude this.
09:59He doesn't count.
10:07I'm going to be honest, I'm frustrated. He sat there in silence.
10:11I know he's entitled to his silence, of course.
10:14However, he sat there and answered any questions that were really frustrating for the investigation.
10:24Will you be charging him?
10:26No, he's going to be bailed.
10:28We don't know. He knew that a murder had taken place.
10:32We've searched his house. Sadly, we've not recovered any firearms.
10:38We're hopeful that the pressure that we're applying in the community will encourage other
10:42people to come forward that do know what's gone on.
10:58We know that the government will trust a very small group of people,
11:02particularly in the aftermath. They're the people we're appealing to.
11:07We recognise that they will be really scared.
11:10They will perceive to kill once, they'll be prepared to kill again,
11:14particularly if they're to speak out.
11:18We're saying to members of the community, this is the death of a nine-year-old girl.
11:22This is one case in your life where you need to be able to look at yourself in the mirror
11:26and say, I've done the right thing.
11:46Police say a young woman who was shot dead in Liverpool was the victim of a callous crime.
11:52Ashley Dale was murdered in her own home.
11:57Police say the attack here was a targeted shooting.
12:00The door was forced here and several shots were fired.
12:03They're now appealing for information and they're also asking people to search their conscience.
12:07They say they know sometimes there's a wall of silence,
12:10sometimes there's a culture of not grasping to the police,
12:14of not giving police information, not being a snitch.
12:18The police say people have got to get beyond that and search their consciences
12:22and if they have information, they must come forward.
12:30Detectives investigating Ashley's murder search for a motive.
12:34They discover messages on her phone about a dispute
12:37between her boyfriend Lee and a local drug dealer.
12:42Ashley seemingly has used her phone to text,
12:48voice note, record images that give us a sequence of events
12:53that potentially have led to her death on the 21st of August.
12:58Oh, OK.
13:00So this is a photo that's come off Ashley's phone.
13:03That's Lee, isn't it? That's Lee.
13:05Clearly a few years ago.
13:07This is Niall Barry.
13:09Right, OK.
13:10He features heavily through the phone but under the nickname Branch.
13:15And it would seem at one point Branch and Lee have been best friends.
13:19They've worked together.
13:21Lee and Niall were involved in drug supply
13:23but there's some suggestion that Branch has been ripping Lee off.
13:28OK.
13:29Then Niall Barry has ended up getting robbed.
13:32He's automatically assumed, I think,
13:35that Lee, being his friend, would side with Niall Barry and he hasn't.
13:39So there's this major beef between Barry and Lee.
13:44It's been reignited because they've both been at the same festival
13:48at Glastonbury, June 2022.
13:51We know that Ashley and Lee went.
13:54Ashley talks to a number of friends
13:56about the sort of reignition of this historic feud.
14:02Branch is back on his high horse, don't know where he's popped back up from.
14:06He was in Glastonbury, pulled a big knife out and said,
14:09where's Lee? He's getting stabbed up.
14:16Rather than sending messages, she'll exchange voice notes.
14:20Can I listen to a couple of them just to give me a flavour of what's on?
14:24Yeah, of course.
14:26I just can't believe that Branch has popped out of the woodwork.
14:30Been heavy beats with that Branch for years.
14:35Just makes out the season that's going on.
14:37One of them's put an end to my wife.
14:40It's scary, to be honest. My head's just gone.
14:47Wow. It's way better than I thought it was going to be.
14:53Wow. It's weird, that, isn't it, listening to her? Yeah.
14:57But her anxiety is from this point.
15:01Just escalate and escalate as we get closer to August.
15:05Branch has been making threats towards Lee,
15:07saying that he's put money on his head.
15:09I can't be arsed with it.
15:11I don't want to have to go to Lee's funeral next
15:13and I just have a bad, bad feeling about everything.
15:15It's horrible. My heart's in my mouth constantly.
15:19And he consistently features through this with Lee.
15:22Now Barry. Now Barry, yeah.
15:24He is the primary focus of all of Ashley's concern.
15:27Yeah.
15:40There we are. Now Barry.
15:43There's extensive amount of intelligence around.
15:47Now Barry.
15:49Clearly been involved in significant drug dealing for some time.
15:54There's warning signals for firearms.
15:57Thought to be carrying a handgun.
15:59Regularly keeps it on his person.
16:02Has a number of people working for him.
16:052015, there, he was associating with Lee Harrison.
16:09It's running with that narrative that they used to be associates.
16:12But there's certainly been some fallout over drug dealing.
16:17Lee continues with,
16:19I don't know who's responsible. I'm not in dispute with anybody.
16:22I just find it so frustrating to think
16:26you have been her partner for years.
16:30This has now happened to her
16:32and yet you are still not assisting or cooperating.
16:35Why would you do that? Is it fear?
16:38Is there someone still coming for him?
16:40Does he want to be seen as a grass?
16:42Does he want to be seen as supporting the police?
16:45That's something morally, if he doesn't, he's going to have to live with.
16:50So now Barry is a significant suspect in this inquiry now.
16:54We've got to do everything that we can to find out where he is.
17:09The funeral took place today for Ashley Dale
17:12amid calls for those responsible to give themselves up.
17:17I think in Liverpool we need to unite now under one voice
17:20and say enough is enough.
17:22The people that we are, the city, the community,
17:25we don't want it overshadowed by these shocking stories.
17:29Enough is enough.
17:43I've got so many people around me,
17:46but without it, it's lonely, it really is.
17:49It's lonely.
17:52We spoke every single day on the phone.
17:56She was the only resource and Ashley was my best friend.
18:00It's tough, it really is.
18:03It was about quarter to four in the morning.
18:06We were woke by somebody knocking on the front door.
18:10I said to Bobby, it's the police, I'm scared.
18:13But not for one minute did I think, you know, what it was going to be.
18:18I think it was the male police officer said, she's been shot.
18:23I'll never come to terms with it.
18:25I'll never accept it.
18:30I couldn't believe that.
18:32Such a shock, I couldn't think, that doesn't make sense.
18:35Why?
18:37Why would you have been shot?
18:41And the first thing I said to them is, where's her boyfriend?
18:44I think they said he couldn't locate him at that moment in time.
18:48He made contact with me after it happened and asked,
18:51could he come and see me?
18:53And my first question was, have you been to the police?
18:55And he said, no.
18:57He can't think of anything, that was his words that he used,
18:59why this has happened.
19:01And I had to go and see him.
19:03So I visited him.
19:05He was there, didn't even get dressed, sat in his boxer shorts.
19:08It was around midday, wasn't it?
19:10Yeah, didn't even have the decency to put any clothes on.
19:13Yeah, he maintained his innocence.
19:15He doesn't know anything about it.
19:17He can't think of anything, why it's happened.
19:19He just shut down with us.
19:21He was just, what the police had said to us, he'd been like with them.
19:25He was being much the same with you and me, because we went together.
19:30And the disrespect that that brings,
19:33because he knows full well who it is.
19:37Why do you think he's not helping?
19:39I honestly don't know.
19:41I mean, this is not our world, you know,
19:43I've never been involved in anything where I've needed to be involved
19:46with police and, you know, to grass or whatever,
19:50but you do hear it so much, there's no grass culture.
19:53But this is serious, it doesn't get any more serious than this.
19:57Now, your girlfriend has been shot dead in the home
20:01that you shared together, but you can't speak.
20:06It's not grassing, it's telling the truth and doing the right thing.
20:10There's no comeback for Ashley.
20:12There's no, well, it'll be OK with time, and time's a healer.
20:17No, it's definitive, Ashley's gone.
20:19Now, if you love that person, you tell the truth.
20:23These people are out there.
20:25You know, we could be walking around with these people,
20:27you know, it sounds bizarre,
20:29but you could be standing next to them in the supermarket
20:31and passing them in the streets.
20:33My once rational brain is completely and utterly irrational now.
20:38If a car drives past the house, I'm on edge, I'm constantly thinking,
20:41are they going to knock, is something going to happen to us,
20:44or is someone going to burst through our door?
20:46I'm scared, I'm scared.
20:48Ashley was an innocent person, she was at home alone,
20:52and someone has burst into her house,
20:54why would they not come and do something to us?
21:00MUSIC FADES
21:15Police locate and arrest Niall Barry,
21:18the suspect in the Ashley Dale investigation.
21:21Firearms officers find him in a hotel outside Liverpool,
21:26with his passport and £10,000 in cash.
21:43What's your name, mate? Niall Barry.
21:47Right, Niall, I'm going to remove this handcuff, OK?
21:5130% of our search and mail is wanted for murder of Ashley Dale,
21:55as a result of a gunshot wound.
21:59Niall broke the stallion and walked faster than the rest of us.
22:02Yeah, I understand that.
22:09Barry's going in there. Oh, is he? Yeah.
22:13MUSIC FADES
22:19So, the word statements of Niall Barry,
22:21the statements I've prepared on my behalf, on my request.
22:24I, Niall Barry, wish to say as follows.
22:27I've been arrested for the offence of murder and possession of a firearm.
22:30I denied those offences.
22:32I did not kill Ashley Dale.
22:34At the time of the murder, I was at an address, a flat in Punch Lane.
22:38I don't know the number.
22:40I was with three friends, Sean, Michael and Ian.
22:43I was at the address in Punch Lane all weekend.
22:45I didn't leave until Sunday.
22:48You will be able to confirm my movements by my mobile phone
22:52and my phone by my cell-citing.
22:54Oh, that's OK. When you say by cell-citing,
22:57do you think you might have been using your phone around that time?
23:00So, what, mate? Possibly, yeah.
23:02Because we were watching Annie Joshua being tricked by it on the iPhone.
23:06What time was that fight? What time was the fight?
23:08Was it just after we all went to bed when it started?
23:18What was the UFC fight?
23:22Was that like a...
23:27Did you watch that live?
23:29OK, so you put yourself in that flat...
23:32Yeah.
23:34..and you were doing it around the material time of when actually it was shot.
23:37Is that what you were doing?
23:39OK, and you were using your phone, you were watching the fight,
23:41and then after you watched the fight, you UFC'd it.
23:44Is what you know about the murder of Ashley Dale...
23:47No comment.
23:49..were you in any way involved with that murder?
23:52No comment.
23:55Ashley Dale, we know that she is Lee Addison's girlfriend.
24:01We believe you and him were mates up until recently.
24:05No comment.
24:09They lived at Edster Road.
24:11Did you know they lived there?
24:13No comment.
24:15Can you tell me what kind of association you had with Lee?
24:19No comment.
24:23Was it at what stage you were friends?
24:25No comment.
24:28Are you a member of any organised crime group?
24:32No comment.
24:34The Bally Organised Crime Group?
24:36No comment.
24:38Are you involved in that? Are you the head of that?
24:40No comment.
24:42OK.
24:44Dale, at the time of the murder, you said you were in that flat.
24:48Do you not worry about some pills laying that flat?
24:51No comment.
24:53Whose flat is it?
24:56Cool, innit he? Quite confident.
24:58But he's given an implausible alibi there,
25:02to stay in a flat for three days.
25:04He's covering the times, innit he?
25:06He's trying to cover the times, innit he?
25:09Was he in the flat?
25:11If he was, who was he with?
25:13We just need to look at identifying those individuals as well.
25:17We also need to establish if he has controlled or organised it.
25:21Even though he might not have pulled the trigger,
25:24if you've planned, arranged it, facilitated it,
25:26you can be just as culpable.
25:44The killing of Olivia Pratt-Cabell
25:46has horrified people in Liverpool and beyond.
25:49A little girl adored by her family.
25:53This you-can't-grasp-culture thing,
25:56there's a line now, there's a line that's been crossed.
26:00You know, if you've been living in these areas
26:02that are run by these gangs, you're terrified.
26:06And I think a lot of the time it's not so much
26:08trust in the police that is the issue.
26:10It is often you're scared for yourself.
26:13Police can't be outside your house protecting you
26:15every minute of every day, and we know that.
26:23The days pass so, so quick.
26:27Once half two comes, we go and see Liv up in Debbie Bennet,
26:33where she's resting.
26:35And we call it the baby room because of the time.
26:39We're so used to, well, I was so used to doing the school room.
26:43And now it's the baby room.
26:46Yeah. We go every day, don't we?
26:49Yeah.
26:51Spend some time there.
26:56Just having that connection that she's still with us.
26:59Yeah, cos it was that much of a shock in losing her.
27:06And I've been doing the baby room, it's...
27:10..like I'm still got...
27:12..control of something, isn't it? Yeah.
27:17OK.
27:21CLINK
27:33This is a video of friends put together whose side you're on.
27:44And it's, you know, it's about doing the right thing.
27:48Not keeping quiet.
27:51There's a stigma around being a grass or a snitch,
27:55but people need to speak up.
27:58Somebody out there, whether it's one person or more people,
28:01they know who's responsible for this.
28:04This individual needs to be caught
28:06so he can never, ever harm another family.
28:09They need to be taken off the streets.
28:13That's where silence, it can't...
28:16You've got to open your mouth. Yeah.
28:18It's the only way it's going to stop.
28:30Olivia Pratt-Corbell's coffin was brought past her primary school
28:34to the church next door.
28:36Yards from where the little girl used to play,
28:39her community came together to say goodbye.
28:47CLINK
28:59Liv touched so many people's hearts
29:02and was loved and adored by everyone.
29:05She will never be forgotten.
29:08So us, and I, will never say goodbye.
29:13But what I will say is, goodnight, love you,
29:17see you in the morning.
29:43Where are we going?
29:45So we're on our way now to meet somebody
29:48who's contacted the police via a third party,
29:53saying that they've got important information
29:56that they want to share about Olivia's murder.
29:59So we're just on our way now to meet them.
30:01A witness, or do you not even know that?
30:04They haven't disclosed what it is,
30:06so we actually don't know what they've got to say.
30:08They didn't want us to go to the house
30:10and they've wanted to meet us somewhere
30:12away from any police station at the minute.
30:16They're that scared.
30:18Well, they're petrified, really.
30:41Do you believe him?
30:43Yeah.
30:46We should phone, we should phone the boss.
30:49Yeah, he had the reds of his car.
30:52Yeah.
30:56Hello?
30:57Hi, Sergeant, it's Stephanie.
30:58Are you OK to speak a little minute?
31:00Yeah, yeah.
31:01He was absolutely petrified.
31:03He was crying right the way through.
31:07In short, on the night of the incident,
31:10he was out and he said he got a call from his girlfriend,
31:15who he didn't want to give us the name of,
31:18saying that the offender had gone into his girlfriend's house
31:23while he wasn't there and had made some disclosures,
31:29in short, that he was there.
31:34In short, that he was the shooter.
31:37He said his life's in danger
31:39if he's even seen talking to the police.
31:42He said he was in the house for a short time, the shooter,
31:47and asked to drop him off in Aspes Road.
31:50Right.
31:51I think he wanted us to go and find all the evidence
31:55and get the CCTV, and I asked him, like,
31:58you know, what if we don't get the evidence
32:01and, you know, would you be willing to come to court?
32:04And, to be fair, he said he's petrified
32:09and his life would be in danger if he did that.
32:25Significant developments overnight.
32:27Well, we've had a man come forward,
32:29clearly with some information that would assist us.
32:31That's a really, really important line of inquiry for us,
32:34a breakthrough that we were hoping for.
32:36But it's very easy to believe everything that we hear.
32:39For that reason, we need to check facts,
32:41and that's what we're currently doing.
32:43We've been given an account and we're checking CCTV
32:45to see if it can corroborate exactly what we've been told.
32:53I think I've got his car.
32:57I've got some CCTV which corroborates what he's saying.
33:00What's he saying's happened here, then, you know?
33:02So what he says is that the gunman goes back to his address,
33:06makes disclosures about this shooting,
33:09and then he's asked to drop him off.
33:11He says he drops him off on Asps Road.
33:13So, 2246 here, this is our city watch camera.
33:17Although it's hard to see at the minute,
33:19that is what I think is his car.
33:23He turns right onto Princess.
33:25Yeah.
33:26So this is the church.
33:27This is St Luke's Church.
33:29So if you can see, that's a better image of the vehicle.
33:32This one.
33:35This one's a little bit harder to see,
33:37but obviously you can see the vehicle there has just come in.
33:40See the headlights?
33:41And he's saying that at that point when he's on Asps,
33:44he's dropped that gunman off. Yeah.
33:47You know, he's disclosed to him that he's committed an offence,
33:51and then he's given him a lift afterwards.
33:54He's assisted an offender.
34:01Detectives receive intelligence
34:03that the man they believe assisted the gunman has left Liverpool.
34:09An arrest team is sent to intercept him and his girlfriend.
34:13There's quite a number of people getting on.
34:15Matt, are you on?
34:19Yes, yes, we're on.
34:21Go on.
34:22Do you have a male and female locator?
34:24Do you want to walk up to us?
34:30So I'm going to arrest on suspicion of assisted offender, OK?
34:33You don't have to say anything.
34:35In fact, if you don't mention that question,
34:37it's something that you later allow to pass,
34:39and if you do say anything...
34:41We were coming straight to you, do you know?
34:43We were coming straight to you.
34:46HE BREATHES HEAVILY
34:50Can you please just get me away from there for a moment?
34:56I'm having a panic attack.
34:58It's not all right.
35:00Sit in there, love.
35:06OK?
35:15HEARTBEAT
35:21All right, watch your step.
35:26The couple are taken to two separate custody suites
35:30to be interviewed.
35:35Before you start, this is a controlled environment,
35:38so I really need you to stand still in here.
35:41I just want to lie to you. No-one can see I'm here.
35:43That's the main thing.
35:45I just don't want no-one to know I'm here.
35:47Assisted offender.
35:54Listen, I need to talk to someone ASAP.
35:57I need to talk to somebody ASAP.
35:59We'll put you up here.
36:01We're going to be up ten minutes, and then you've got to stop.
36:04I'm sorry.
36:14MUSIC PLAYS
36:28OK, good morning, everybody. Welcome.
36:30It's been a lot happening overnight.
36:32Now, as soon as she got into custody,
36:34she asked to see the police straightaway,
36:37said she wanted to speak to us.
36:39She chose not to have legal advice,
36:41despite being repeatedly warned, given her significant nature.
36:45Just give the conference an overview in relation to what was said.
36:48Yeah, we took her into the interview room.
36:50First thing she said was,
36:52I'll tell you what's happened, but, basically, I want protection.
36:56I'm scared. I'm terrified.
36:58I'm scared for my life, my partner's life.
37:00I'm not going to answer any questions.
37:02I'm going to be answering no comments
37:04unless you can offer me that protection.
37:06She genuinely... She appeared genuine, didn't she?
37:09Very emotional. Yeah, and fearful for her life.
37:13She's basically intimated that I'm not speaking to anybody
37:17or telling anyone else what's happened
37:19unless a boss comes here and tells me I'm going to be protected.
37:23So I said, we're going to have to go back to our bosses
37:26and tell, you know, tell them what you can offer us.
37:30And she said, well, I can tell you she's committed a dismay there.
37:34I knew it. I said, what more do you want me to say?
37:37I know I've fucking done it.
37:41We know she's really, really fearful and really frightened.
37:44We do empathise.
37:46We understand that they're in a typical position.
37:49They're starting to question the moral obligations,
37:51which is exactly what we want,
37:53and that's what we've appealed for from day one.
37:56We're not in a position to offer anybody any deals or anything like that
38:00until we know the full facts, and we'll interview her again later.
38:05We really need to nail down exactly what's happened
38:08in the full sequence of events.
38:11We still don't know who the gunman is,
38:14so this could be a really key day for the investigation.
38:30SILENCE
38:48This interview is being digitally audio-recorded.
38:51Everyone should manage it. We're still under caution.
38:55Detectives interview the couple
38:57arrested on suspicion of assisting the gunman
39:00on the night of Olivia's murder.
39:02I'm now going to caution you again, OK?
39:04So you do not have to say anything, but it may harm your defence.
39:07If you do not mention when questioned something
39:09which relates to the line in court,
39:11then anything you do say may be given in evidence.
39:13Do you understand what the caution means?
39:15Yeah. OK, then.
39:19I've got a nine-year-old girl.
39:21Olivia Pratt's daughter was murdered in her own house.
39:26So go through, in time order, what you did exactly on Monday.
39:31I was in... I was in me girlfriend's house.
39:36My mate rang me and said, we're out of electricity,
39:38so I've gone round, got the Leckie key,
39:40took the dog to the off-licence, which is on Finch Lane shops.
39:45Got Leckie and seen one of me mates there.
39:48Then I got a phone call.
39:50Said someone's at house.
39:54You've been arrested for assisting an offender.
39:56What can you tell me about that?
40:00So, I'm in bed fast asleep
40:02and I can just feel meself getting nudged.
40:06And I thought it was me fella waking me up.
40:09And the next minute, this person, he's just gone.
40:12Don't be telling anyone.
40:14No-one needs to know I'm here.
40:16And I'm half asleep cos I'm like, what are you on about?
40:19Like, what the fuck's going on?
40:21And he's just gone.
40:23They've been chasing me or they're trying to get me.
40:26It was something like that.
40:28And I'm thinking, is this a fucking dream?
40:30Like, you're in me room.
40:32So I've got me dressing gown on.
40:34I've followed him downstairs
40:36and that's obviously when I've made the phone call to me fella
40:39and been like, hello.
40:41So I've gone round there to me girlfriend's.
40:47So go on then, what's happened when you've gone round?
40:50I've gone round and I've been speaking to that person who was there.
40:55He was telling me he was getting chased by someone.
40:58He's changed his house?
41:00Something about someone getting shot or they got shot.
41:04Something like that.
41:06He was on the phone.
41:08Something like that.
41:10He was only in there five or ten minutes, then I dropped him off.
41:18And the day after, when we found out he'd gone in the Echo with the little girl.
41:23Now, as soon as I'd seen King's Heath, I knew that's where he'd been.
41:29That's where it all came together.
41:31That's where it all came together for me.
41:34And I sobbed my heart out.
41:37And we went, we can't do this.
41:39We've got to go.
41:41He's going to come and get us, not going to lie.
41:43We was too scared to stay in the house.
41:46Not regarding yous, regarding him.
41:48We've wanted this to happen, not going to lie.
41:51We've wanted yous to do this.
41:53Because we need to fucking, you know, say what we've got to say.
41:57But it's just...
41:59I don't know what's going on.
42:02Are you willing to tell us who that person was?
42:08I'm glad I'm not saying this to you.
42:12I think what, you know, ultimately,
42:14it's a question of the identity of this person.
42:17If at all.
42:18Isn't it?
42:19And, ultimately, we're dealing with probably one of the most tragic murders
42:24he needs to go through.
42:25I know.
42:26Oh.
42:27I know.
42:28I'm scared.
42:30Really scared.
42:31Really scared.
42:33I mean, yous know what can happen to me.
42:37I'm terrified of just what he can do to me.
42:40Because has he got a reputation for killing people?
42:43I don't know.
42:44He's got a reputation for something.
42:46Well, that's what I'm trying to ask you, mate, of course.
42:49Yeah.
42:50Doing serious things, yeah.
42:52So, basically, you're terrified he's going to shoot you?
42:55Listen, I'm petrified because he's forced entry into my house.
42:59He's put this on me.
43:01He's come into my fucking house and ruined my fucking life.
43:05Like, I'm pissed off bad.
43:07Why the fuck would he come to my house?
43:09It's really done me head in.
43:11Like, I'm losing the plot because I'm going over it.
43:14Why has he done this to me?
43:19I don't know.
43:21Why has he done this to me?
43:26Do I have to say his name?
43:28If you're happy to, we will ask for a name.
43:34Tommy.
43:38So, you've sent Tommy there.
43:40Are you willing to give us any other name?
43:47Tommy Cashman.
43:51We need people to stand up.
43:53People have got to tell us who this person is.
43:58It's Tommy Cashman.
44:00Tommy Cashman, right? Yeah.
44:13OK, good evening, everyone.
44:15This is an armed operation,
44:17authority granted by gold from Merseyside Police.
44:20Cashman has been declared wanted by the SAO
44:22for the murder of Olivia Pratt Corbell,
44:24as well as the attempted murder of Cheryl Corbell and Joseph Nee.
44:29Cashman is also linked heavily through intelligence
44:31and previous offending to organised crime.
44:33I have reason to suppose Thomas Cashman is in possession of
44:37or has immediate access to a firearm
44:39or other potentially lethal weapon.
44:41And officers are allowed to use force to protect life and property,
44:45protect themselves or others, based on the threat assessment.
45:16Oh, police!
45:21Oh, police, come to the front door, I'll bring Nothling with you.
45:45Thanks for watching.