“If we get this right, it has the opportunity for us to shape a future that's way fairer than the one we have today,” KPMG’s Global Head of AI speaks to Euronews about his optimistic outlook on the applications of AI.
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00:00People plus AI could become something better.
00:02We need to do a better job of the advent of AI than we did of the advent of the internet.
00:07If we get this right, it has the opportunity for us
00:10to shape a future that's way better than the one we have today.
00:19According to the European Commission, in 2023, around 94.6 million people in the EU
00:25are at risk of poverty or social exclusion.
00:27That's around 21% of the total population.
00:29In this episode of The Big Question, I'm chatting to David Rowlands,
00:32KPMG's Global Head of AI, to discuss AI's power to reduce
00:36or potentially increase the wealth divide depending on how we use it.
00:39Thank you very much for joining us.
00:41So every day we're hearing more and more about how AI is going to
00:44revolutionise industry and change the way we work.
00:46But are there any more kind of social benefits to AI and adoption?
00:49This is why I'm excited about what AI will do for people,
00:52because the combination of an individual, you or I or anybody,
00:58and AI is unpredictable and in a beautiful way.
01:01One of the interesting questions around AI is its interaction with social mobility.
01:06Is it going to close the attainment gap? Is it going to close the wealth gap?
01:10And social mobility is a very interesting question.
01:12And KPMG did a very brave study.
01:14They looked at how your social background affected the pace
01:19at which you progressed through our organisation,
01:22the speed with which you got promoted.
01:24And we learned that people from a lower socioeconomic background
01:26took 19% longer to get promoted than others.
01:32And that was a greater factor than any of the other characteristics involved.
01:38And then along comes AI.
01:40And it's a really interesting question because AI is like a superpower.
01:43It's going to enhance people's capabilities as individuals,
01:47as well as for workforces, organisations, societies as a whole.
01:51But it doesn't happen equally or evenly.
01:54In actual fact, what you see is AI enhances the performance
01:59of medium to lower performers more than it does the top end.
02:04So in other words, it's lifting the whole team's performance,
02:07but it's closing the gap of performance.
02:10Now, that's interesting in a social mobility question
02:12because that's an opportunity for people who've been left behind
02:15by whatever experience in life, you know,
02:18access to education or training in the past.
02:22It gives them a new route into the workforce and to perform.
02:27And of course, you reward people economically by their performance.
02:30So this is an opportunity to close that wealth gap.
02:34So KPMG, by reaching out into different socioeconomic backgrounds,
02:39we've had people join us with amazing different experiences and perspectives.
02:44So the way they're using AI then with their wider experience,
02:48that combination has been amazing.
02:51And so then you've got just this optimistic view
02:53of how people plus AI could become something better.
03:03You know, all of these kind of benefits that are potentials,
03:07they all sound wonderful, but that is only if we get it right.
03:10So if we don't use AI responsibly or implement it responsibly,
03:13what are the risks?
03:15AI is extremely powerful.
03:17And if there are people who are excluded,
03:20if people aren't brought along on the journey,
03:24you know, it can widen the divide.
03:25And so we have to be purposeful about this.
03:28We have to be focused on it.
03:30And then there's a personal view.
03:32We need to do a better job of the advent of AI
03:36than we did of the advent of the internet.
03:38You know, we need to think about more carefully
03:40about the world that we want in four or five years time.
03:43I actually think we've got a number of years to shake this up
03:46and to get, you know, get our heads around it.
03:48But unless we start now being purposeful about how
03:53we want society to look, how we want it to be fairer,
03:55you know, we're going to miss the moment.
03:57If we get this right, it has the opportunity for us
04:01to shape a future that's way fairer than the one we have today.
04:05If we don't take the opportunity, it could make it worse.
04:08You're right.
04:09So what do we need to do to ensure that AI improves people's lives
04:12and doesn't plunge them further into poverty?
04:14People have an individual responsibility there.
04:16You know, you've got to grab hold of this thing
04:18and be positive and excited about it.
04:21But if we don't give people the opportunity to grab hold of that,
04:25then there is a chance of a polarization.
04:28If we program our ability at corporate level,
04:34at society level, nation level,
04:37and then across nations into how we make sure
04:40that we're giving people access to AI capabilities,
04:42and that is access to a device, access to the internet,
04:46in some places, electricity,
04:48and then most importantly,
04:50immersing people in the skills and capabilities that they need
04:53to master AI and make the most of it.
04:56So, you know, education in schools,
05:00you know, the ability to access training programs online.
05:04It's not a terribly expensive way of leveling up people's knowledge.
05:10There's plenty of courses out there already,
05:11but we could be more program-based about that,
05:15you know, as a society,
05:17to help people get those kind of skills that I was talking about
05:20so that, you know, everyone's a winner.
05:28In the workplace, it is the company's job to, you know,
05:32make sure that all the staff have access to technology equally.
05:37When we're thinking about kind of the world's poorest countries,
05:39for example, whose responsibility is it to make sure
05:43they have the access to AI, for example, so they don't get left behind?
05:47You know, I was talking about AI in a corporation like APMG
05:51and the way that we're making sure that no one's left behind there.
05:53We had a training program of all of our 270,000 people
05:58round-the-clock training so that we knew,
06:00you know, the point is we don't want anyone out of the loop on this.
06:04And then you could do that within a country and say,
06:07you know, nationwide programs of accessibility.
06:10How do we give a, you know, countrywide program of training?
06:14And then you start looking at that, you know, across borders.
06:17There is an interesting question around
06:21supranational bodies, such as personal point of view,
06:24such as the European Union and access to compute power,
06:31access to model development, access to training and development
06:36so that those are done, you know, across nation states.
06:39It's an interesting debate.
06:41But you can easily see that there'd be a key role for nation states in this
06:45and the core underlying skills to be able to use AI well,
06:51that's got to be part of a school curriculum.
06:53You know, to be positive, it does seem to be the case
06:56that when you look at users of AI, it tends towards younger people
07:00who are using it more often and more effectively,
07:04more consistently, more creatively.
07:07So there's something optimistic about that.
07:10You know, if we can get the skills into people's hands
07:12during their schooling, university periods,
07:15that's going to help some of these social benefits
07:17that you were asking about earlier.
07:25And thinking about on an industry level,
07:28obviously there is certain industries where it's obvious how AI can help it.
07:32But actually, we've seen lots of cases where AI can be massively beneficial
07:36in loads of different industries, like health, for example.
07:39How, again, do we make sure that AI access is democratised across all industries?
07:46So not only can all industries benefit, but no industries get left behind.
07:50Well, I'm optimistic about that question because AI requires an investment,
07:56but the return on that investment is pretty clear.
07:59It's pretty powerful.
08:00And it's powerful across all industries.
08:05It's true in the private sector.
08:06It's true in the public sector.
08:08And so AI, depending on the type of task and role,
08:12so people can become 25% to 30% more effective in their use of the time.
08:16If they're working processes and knowledge and content,
08:20they can become 50% more effective.
08:22And even generating code and, you know, that can even beat some of those numbers.
08:28And so, you know, the exciting thing is what do you do with that kind of ROI?
08:33You've got some of the huge scale public sector organisations around,
08:38you know, like health in the UK, like the NHS or, you know, schools, universities.
08:44AI is going to be, you know, a really interesting business case.
08:48Some of those industries, you might be worried that they wouldn't have the investment to do it.
08:52The ROI is so powerful that I think we're going to get,
08:54we're going to see it showing up quite quickly.
08:57In education, 74% of teachers are using AI already
09:02in the generation of their lesson plans.
09:06If you can take away some of the administrative parts of people's roles,
09:11what can you do with the time released?
09:13If you're a teacher, that means you can vary the type of learning experiences
09:16for people with different backgrounds in your class.
09:19So, you know, we're good at getting to a standard outcome,
09:23you know, in attainment in our classrooms.
09:25But people start from different positions,
09:27then they start with different learning kind of skills and backgrounds.
09:30And so if AI speeds up the way that you can create the classroom experience,
09:35then that teacher is going to be a thousand times more effective, aren't they?
09:39So this is a good way of looking at the business case of AI.
09:44Yeah, OK, that's a fantastic example.
09:46And so a personal question for you.
09:49Do you think it is truly possible to bridge the gap for everyone?
09:53Well, it's a good question, because I think we should set that out as our vision.
10:01You know, like if you look back in time,
10:03and we could have asked the same question over the internet when the internet arrived.
10:06So I think it's a good question to ask for society.
10:10The personal view, I think we need to be more mindful,
10:12more thoughtful about how we plan for the consequences of AI
10:19than we did when we came across the internet, you know.
10:22So it's a great question.
10:23I think we need to be aware that we're on the brink of something
10:27that is going to transform the way that we work, the way that we live,
10:31the way we experience our lives.
10:33And if we're going to throw things up in the air,
10:36and it'll take a number of years before this starts to manifest.
10:41If we are going to throw things up in the air,
10:43then let's hope for something more fair.
10:45Let's hope for something more equitable.
10:48AI is a new power, a new capability.
10:51Let's use it to good effect.
10:53Yeah, no, absolutely.
10:55Well, thank you very much for joining us today on The Big Question.
10:58It's been absolutely fascinating.
11:00And thank you very much for watching.
11:01You can catch more episodes of The Big Question
11:03on the Euronews Business website and on YouTube.
11:05Brilliant.