Political Deputy Editor David Bol chats with Scottish Labour Leader Anas Sarwar
Scottish Labour leader Anas Sarwar and Finance spokesperson Michael Marra will hold a briefing on the state of Scotland’s finances under the SNP.
Scottish Labour leader Anas Sarwar and Finance spokesperson Michael Marra will hold a briefing on the state of Scotland’s finances under the SNP.
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00:00Hi, I'm David Ball, the Deputy Political Editor of The Scotsman. I'm here in the
00:03Scottish Parliament with Scottish Labour leader Anna Sawa, who is launching this
00:07finance briefing on the state of the economy in Scotland and asks how have we
00:11got here? The Scottish Government would say that this is largely down to
00:13Westminster and a lack of funding. How do you see it? So David, that's why we
00:18thought was really important to do the briefing with journalists today around
00:22the financial situation we have across the UK and here in Scotland because I
00:26think there's been a lot of deliberate misinformation actually from the
00:30Scottish Government and I think it's important to be clear about what the
00:33facts are and if you don't mind I'll take them in turn. There was of course
00:37the IFS and the talk of the 20 billion pounds black hole over the course of the
00:44Parliament, something that the SNP repeatedly raised during the election
00:48campaign and we were very clear that we would not return to austerity, that we
00:54would have some tax changes to increase the money that was coming into the
00:59Treasury and therefore can be spent on public services, that would be a positive
01:02consequential for Scotland and we were clear that we had to strive for growth
01:07in order to change that financial position for the UK and also for
01:11Scotland and we were also clear that we would be willing to borrow to invest. So
01:15that was the 20 billion pounds for the IFS and the response we had from the
01:19election, that's not changed now. There is then the 22 billion pound figure
01:24which is the in-year black hole for this year that was identified when we came
01:30into government and the seriousness of that cannot be downplayed. I know the SNP
01:34want to downplay the carnage, it's for them to answer why they want to
01:37downplay the state of the economic situation left by the Tories but as
01:43serious as that was it's why there is now a review happening of the
01:47transparency of the information provided by the Treasury to the OBR because of
01:51that failure to give that transparency in the last year and the SNP want to
01:55try and pretend that 22 billion pound in-year figure is the same as a 20
02:00billion pound figure that we're talking about over the next five years. It's
02:02simply not the case and not true. That has not had, I should
02:07emphasise, a detrimental impact on Scotland's budget. It is a challenge
02:13for the departmental budgets in other parts of the UK but it has not had a
02:18detrimental impact on Scotland's budget. That is something that's been confirmed
02:21by the Scottish Fiscal Commission this morning. There is then the third issue
02:25which is around the winter fuel payment which is a decision the Chancellor has
02:30made that she said she didn't want to make, has been forced to make because of
02:33the scale of the economic carnage. That is now a devolved benefit this year and
02:38I am very sympathetic to those who say that pension credit is too narrow a
02:43criteria for that payment and therefore we have again repeating the open
02:48offer of willing to work with the Scottish Government and of course the
02:51representative organisations of older people across the country to identify
02:54what a fairer criteria looks like and how we can find the money in order to
02:59have a different system. Something the SNP are often saying they want is
03:03benefits devolved so we can do things differently here in Scotland. Well this
03:07is now a devolved payment and we have the opportunity to do things differently in
03:10Scotland. And the fourth which is related in terms of what the SNP are
03:15trying to say is that the emergency spending controls implemented by Shona
03:20Robinson are somehow related either to the winter fuel payment announcement or
03:24to the Chancellor's statement before the summer recess. It's simply not true.
03:29It is either them demonstrating economic illiteracy or them deliberately trying
03:34to mislead the public, neither of which are a good look and frankly I think
03:37people can see right through it. The idea that the decision on the winter fuel
03:41payment is the reason why this SNP Scottish Government has cut funding for
03:46Creative Scotland, has cut funding for NatureScot or is removing 450 teacher
03:51posts from Glasgow, removing teachers from working-class classrooms when
03:55apparently challenging child poverty is meant to be their number one mission is
03:59complete and utter nonsense. It's a result of their incompetence and their
04:05mismanagement and their waste. And I know I've given a really long answer but
04:08just to emphasise, that's not just me saying that, that's been emphasised this
04:12morning by the Scottish Fiscal Commission, it's been emphasised by Audit
04:15Scotland, it's been emphasised by the Institute for Fiscal Studies, someone
04:18that they don't want to quote on this occasion, and by the Fraser of Allander
04:22Institute. So the incompetence, the waste has to end and they need to stop that
04:26usual SNP reflex of looking for somebody else to blame or looking for excuses.
04:31It comes a point where they have to take responsibility and it's their
04:34mismanagement that has left Scots paying more and getting less.
04:38We're coming back from summer recess facing these quite stark cuts by the
04:41sounds of it. Are you concerned that areas such as tuition fees and
04:46prescriptions, there's been some talk that they might get touched. Surely the
04:49financial situation is different from when these debates were held in the past
04:53and are those areas you can see maybe getting touched and what would you do?
04:57Well I think given the scale of the financial mismanagement you've seen in
05:00previous years, the SNP make budget revisions in year where they set the
05:06budget and then move money around within departments or pull back on spending.
05:11We've yet to see the scale of that and we hope to hear more of that when the
05:14Parliament comes back after recess, when we sit next week. And I think it's
05:19really urgent that we have transparency and that's again an issue that's been
05:22raised by Audit Scotland and others that there's a failure to give proper
05:26transparency around the public finances from the SNP Scottish Government. But I
05:30think if we can stop the incompetence, we can stop the waste and we can stop
05:34the financial mismanagement then we can avoid getting ourselves in the situation
05:38we're in. Right now under this SNP government you have local government
05:42finances completely broken, you have delayed discharge costs which is even
05:48more expensive than if they properly funded social care packages, you have
05:52teacher numbers being cut across the country and you look at for example the
05:57ferry scandal, the huge waste that we've seen in terms of hundreds of millions of
06:01pounds over budget. That incompetence and waste has to end because it's now
06:05starting to cut to the bone and it's starting to have a negative impact on
06:09working people here in Scotland and the blame for that lies squarely with this
06:13SNP government. Say if you came into government in 2026 is your intention,
06:17some of that waste you would inherit it doesn't just stop overnight and if you
06:20want to pay for stuff like the NHS, boosting those appointments that you've
06:24promised and helping that relationship between local and central government
06:28you have to find some money for that so what is your plan to pay for these
06:31things? Surely you would acknowledge you'd have to cut somewhere. I think
06:34that's a really important question David because we are going to take a serious
06:38grown-up approach and not try and do the sticky plaster reports as what you saw
06:42by the Tories over 14 years and what you've seen by the SNP over the last 17.
06:46A few things within that, one of the biggest gaps we've had in public
06:50policy here in Scotland is that we have rightly had a huge focus on social
06:55policy but we have not had an equal focus on economic policy and Scotland's
07:00budget is now directly linked to our growth here in Scotland and also through
07:05the fiscal framework the size of those on the median wages in both of
07:10which the SNP has failed to properly plan for. So we are going to put
07:14economic policy, economic growth front and centre, that increases the size of
07:17the cake rather than the cake shrinking year after year and the slices getting
07:21thinner and thinner, that's the first thing. We're going to deliver economic
07:25growth. Secondly we have to stop the waste and the incompetence, the
07:29Fed scandal being a good example of that. And third we have to do reform. If
07:33you look at our health care system, why for a population of five and a half
07:38million people do we have 50 boards? We are a country now that is bureaucracy
07:43heavy. We have lots of layers of management where there are talking shops,
07:47where there are discussions, when that money instead can be spent on frontline
07:51services and frontline staff. That's the kind of examples that we'll set out in
07:55more detail as we head to the election in 2026. And finally Keir Starmer today
07:59set out quite a gloomy picture of the UK economy. It's unlikely that that's going
08:03to improve in the next sort of 18 months in the lead up to that Holyrood election.
08:07Are you concerned that that sort of legacy and what people will tie to a
08:10Labour government at Westminster will harm your chances of winning that
08:14Holyrood election? I think what people will appreciate is one the huge sigh of
08:19relief that we've got rid of a Tory government. Secondly that we've ended the
08:24economic incompetence and carnage across the UK and that we finally have a grown
08:29up serious government that is going to get on with fixing the fundamentals,
08:33stabilising our economy, growing our economy and delivering for Scotland. That
08:37is not going to be an easy process and we've never pretended it was. If you
08:40remember during the election I was repeatedly asked and I repeatedly
08:44answered that we are not going to be able to fix every problem straight away.
08:48There is no magic wand, everything's not fixed overnight. This is a long hard road
08:53but we only start that journey for change if we elect a Labour government
08:57and that journey for change has already begun. We've reformed the low-paid
09:00Commission, we're going to deliver a pay rise for the lowest paid workers across
09:05the country. We're in the process of delivering the New Deal for Working
09:08People, that legislative process has already started. We've already completed
09:11the first two stages of the legislature around GB Energy that will be
09:14headquartered here in Scotland so we maximise our growth opportunities here
09:17in Scotland. That's just a few examples of how a UK Labour government has hit
09:22the ground running and how we're going to make sure Scotland is at the heart of
09:24that government and that we deliver for Scotland. Great, thank you. Thank you.