Marcia Hines - Enough Rope with Andrew Denton (2006)
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00:34Thank you. Good evening. Welcome to Enough Rope.
00:36Flower child, pop idol, single mother, diva, gay icon, comeback queen.
00:41My first guest has been all of these things.
00:43She's even been Jesus' girlfriend.
00:45She seemed an exotic flower when she first came to Australia
00:48almost 35 years ago. She still is.
00:50Please welcome Marsha Hines.
00:52-♪♪
01:01Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
01:04Welcome. What a pleasure to have you here.
01:06Oh, thank you. It's nice to be here.
01:07Can we get to the extraordinary, the most extraordinary thing first?
01:11You are Colin Powell's cousin.
01:13I am.
01:14Does he call?
01:15Oh, he's my cousin.
01:16Oh, he's your cousin. I'm sorry.
01:18Does he call? Have you ever?
01:20No, no, no. No, nothing like that.
01:22But I was in America a few years ago,
01:25and I called a very close cousin of mine because I was skidding.
01:28I was bragging because I'd gone to this great church,
01:31and I was brought up in churches, you know.
01:33And I said, Donna, Donna, I just went to this great church,
01:36and the preacher was just great.
01:38He reminded me so much of somebody,
01:39but he was just this great preacher, great church.
01:42She said, where was it?
01:43I said, his name is Noel Jones.
01:45She said, oh, yeah. Did you enjoy it?
01:46I said, yeah.
01:47She said, that's your cousin.
01:48And that's Grace Jones's brother.
01:50So Grace Jones is our cousin, too.
01:53Are you sure this is just stuff people tell you?
01:55No, no, no, no, no.
01:57You know, I'm your cousin, Marcia.
01:59We look like each other.
02:00I'm so often mistaken for you in the supermarket.
02:03No, it's the truth.
02:04I have a cousin who actually does the family tree thing.
02:06Yeah?
02:07When you were a little kid, you wanted to be a mortician.
02:10I did.
02:12And people laugh, but in America, when people pass away,
02:16people go and look at you.
02:17You lie in state, so they can pay their last respects.
02:20And I remember being a kid, and all the old ladies
02:23would stand over someone who had passed away.
02:24They'd, oh, doesn't she look great?
02:26Oh, she looked better than when she was alive, you know?
02:30So on the way from school, I'd just go,
02:32and there are a lot of funeral homes in Boston.
02:35And I'd just stop off and see who was in residence, you know.
02:39And I thought about doing it.
02:40Yes, I'd go to almost every one.
02:42Did you actually do any make-up or any...?
02:44No, I did actually watch an autopsy once,
02:46and that made me think, perhaps not.
02:51Your dad died when you were just a barb.
02:53Yeah.
02:54And your mum, Esme, raised you, and your brother, Dwight.
02:56Was there any sort of paternal figure in your life?
02:59Yes, my godfather.
03:00And there was just recently an article about my mum and myself
03:04in a magazine in Sydney.
03:06And someone said, well, her godfather was always around,
03:09and she didn't... That was my godfather.
03:11I so know my mother was not attracted to my godfather,
03:15because, you know,
03:16you kind of know when your mum digs somebody,
03:18and she didn't dig Mr Evans.
03:20You know, not in that way.
03:21Mr Evans was truly my godfather,
03:23and he was an elderly chap that always wore a beautiful cap
03:27and a beautiful tweed jacket,
03:29and when ladies would come by, he'd tip his...
03:32Gentleman.
03:33What about you and Dwight?
03:34Was that a close brother-sister relationship?
03:36We tried to kill each other. That was our...
03:38That was the standard relationship, yeah.
03:40You know, I mean,
03:41anybody who knows about a brother or a sister,
03:44if you're the baby sister, ooh, you've got to hide a lot.
03:47Yeah, he used to beat me up, and he used to...
03:50Oh, but that was his job, you know?
03:52Did your mum set any boundaries?
03:54Oh, yeah. Are you serious?
03:56My mother's look was a boundary.
03:58Who?
04:00Oh, man, yes, you know,
04:02and West Indians or black people are very strict.
04:06They can be very strict with their children, you know,
04:08and if your mother says,
04:10come here, you don't say, I'll be there in a minute,
04:13or, oh, no, you know?
04:15You just get there.
04:17So when marijuana started becoming the thing
04:20that everybody was smoking in Boston,
04:22my mother said, OK, now, if you want to smoke it,
04:25smoke it in the house.
04:27Don't smoke it outside.
04:29Did you hear me?
04:30We said, OK, fine.
04:32So I wasn't into it. My brother was into it.
04:34He was a bad guy, you know?
04:37I'm not telling him now if I could.
04:39But anyway, so he was smoking out in the street one day,
04:42and I remember the cops, they busted him,
04:45and I ran home and said,
04:47Mama, Dwyka busted ma.
04:49She said, who?
04:52She did.
04:54I thought my mother was the meanest person on two legs.
04:58She said, what did I tell you guys?
05:00So I ran all around the neighborhood, and I got bail.
05:04And I went down to the prison, or to where they kept him.
05:08And they said, fine, you got the money.
05:11You're a minor.
05:13You can't bail him out with your mother.
05:15And just as I said it, she came in the door.
05:18Esme seems like such a cool mum.
05:20She let you, when you were 16, go to this.
05:25Let us one, two, three, what are we fighting for?
05:29Don't ask me, I don't give a damn.
05:31My next stop is Vietnam.
05:34And it's five, six, seven, open up the pearly gates.
05:38Well, I ain't no time to wonder why we're all gonna die.
05:43Yeah, I went to Woodstock.
05:46It was this huge concert.
05:48And Boston always had big concerts,
05:50but this one's gonna be a big one.
05:52It was outside of Boston.
05:54So I went with my babysitter.
05:56My babysitter, the woman I babysat for, excuse me.
05:59And her daughter, Honore.
06:01And the deal was, I take care of Honore.
06:03So we're driving, you know, in the VW bus, the red VW bus.
06:07We get there, and we give the guy the money.
06:09And he says, just go in.
06:12I've lost count.
06:14I can't count anymore.
06:16And we drove in, and it was this sea of people.
06:20Like nothing I'd ever seen.
06:21And the vibe was just great.
06:24And I stayed.
06:25My brother went, too.
06:26And he didn't like it and left.
06:28And Honore's mum left.
06:30So I was just there, chillin'.
06:32It was fantastic.
06:33On your own?
06:34Mm-hmm.
06:35I was never so dirty in my life.
06:37I was covered in mud.
06:39Because, as you know, it rained and rained.
06:40Yeah.
06:41When you were 16 at about this time,
06:43you got a chance to go to the Boston Con to study opera.
06:47It wasn't really you.
06:48Yeah, just a little bit before that.
06:4915, yeah, yeah.
06:50Then Jimmy Sharman, who was directing the Australian version of Hair,
06:53came to Boston, auditioned you, said,
06:55come to Australia, be part of our cast.
06:57He did.
06:58But you were legally too young.
06:59You needed to be 18.
07:00You were 16.
07:01Esme made it possible.
07:02Why did she do that?
07:03What did she do?
07:04Well, all my life I wanted to be a singer.
07:06All my life.
07:07I mean, that's all I've ever wanted to be,
07:09except a mortician, you know?
07:10Yeah.
07:11And it's strange, isn't it?
07:13And so my mother was very clever with us.
07:17You know, she'd give us enough rope.
07:19You know?
07:20Oh, excuse me.
07:23You can't cross-promote here on the ABC.
07:28That's what happens between the programs.
07:31And that's what she did.
07:33She'd just say, you know, you can do this,
07:35and you know how I've brought you up, blah, blah, blah.
07:37And my mother, she trusted me.
07:39She trusted me.
07:40Even when I got here and I found out I was pregnant,
07:43she still didn't lose the plot.
07:45You know, most parents would go, I don't know what they'd do.
07:47But my mom, she said, look, I was waiting for you to tell me
07:51because your pictures make you look a bit fat.
07:55And you've chosen a strange career.
07:58You probably won't have any more babies.
08:00If you can't take care of the child,
08:02send it home and I'll take care of it.
08:04That's pretty nice because, I mean, I've got to tell you,
08:0716, black, having a baby, being single,
08:10it was pretty hard.
08:12But because I had my mother's support,
08:14nothing touched me.
08:15Do you know what I'm saying?
08:16Yeah.
08:17I knew that you have to be responsible for what you do.
08:21So my consequences were Denny.
08:23And if I hadn't had that child,
08:25I wouldn't be the person that's talking to you now
08:28because I think a child makes life make a lot of sense.
08:32You were just a kid raising a kid.
08:34I was.
08:3516 when Denny was born.
08:36I was.
08:37I was 17.
08:38Did you have any idea what you were doing?
08:39No.
08:40No, but I knew it was a very, very important thing I was doing
08:43and I knew that I couldn't be anything but responsible
08:47because when you have someone depending on you for food, water,
08:52oh, gee, to be changed, to be tactile,
08:56oh, it was hard.
08:58It wasn't easy.
08:59And I do not condone teenage pregnancy.
09:02But I don't regret it.
09:04I just say to girls, women say to me,
09:06oh, look, I don't do much.
09:08I'm just a mom.
09:11I say, well, you've got the best gig in the world, you know,
09:14because if I could have done one thing,
09:16I think I would have loved to have had a house full of kids.
09:19So much happened to you so young.
09:21Yes.
09:22You were in the Australian production of Hair.
09:24You had Denny.
09:25And by your mid-20s, you were, and I think still are,
09:28the most successful, the biggest-selling Australian artist ever,
09:31Queen of Pop three times.
09:33Did Queen of Pop mean a lot in those days?
09:35Did it mean a lot to you?
09:36You know, an award only means nothing to you
09:38if you've never gotten one.
09:40It meant a lot to me.
09:44Yeah.
09:45Yeah, sure.
09:46Because in those days, people cut out the coupon
09:48and put it in the envelope and posted it out.
09:50That means a lot.
09:51And what are your memories of that time
09:53where you were shining, literally?
09:56Work.
09:57Work.
09:58Work.
09:59Suitcases, work.
10:00Work.
10:01Country towns, working, working.
10:03I worked, you know.
10:04So I think I am a workaholic.
10:06So what kind of a mum were you with Denny growing up?
10:08Strict.
10:09Yeah?
10:10How strict?
10:11Ask her.
10:12Strict.
10:13Yeah?
10:14Because, yeah, look, I know a lot of younger mothers
10:17who think it's great to have a child as a friend.
10:21I don't.
10:22Because your friends can say, get...
10:24Mm-hmm.
10:25Mm-hmm.
10:26My child will never say that to me,
10:27and I would never dream of saying that to my mother.
10:29You understand?
10:30So I do.
10:31For example, you know, Denny would want to go to school,
10:34as all schoolgirls do, with the skirt hitched up to here.
10:37She would leave looking normal...
10:40LAUGHTER
10:42..and then arrive looking like a tart.
10:45And I caught her.
10:47And I went to the school and took her proper uniform.
10:50And they called her name over the PA.
10:53Yeah!
10:54Told you.
10:55LAUGHTER
10:57Yep, and I said, change your clothes.
10:59Oh, she was sick, you know.
11:01She tells me about it now.
11:02She says, Ma, how could you?
11:03I said, easy.
11:04That's what mums do, Denny.
11:06You know? Yeah.
11:07Because your mum was...
11:09Yeah, she had boundaries in her look, but she was fairly permissive.
11:12She was permissive, but she...
11:13No, you know, you have to understand,
11:15like, there were certain things I just couldn't do.
11:17I don't drink.
11:18I've never been a drinker, I've never been drunk.
11:21So, not for any reason, but it wasn't in my house.
11:25She let me be me,
11:27but there was a lot that was expected of me.
11:29And I think that's correct,
11:30because I think every child needs boundaries.
11:33I want to show you a clip from an interview you did.
11:35I think it might have been on Countdown.
11:36Mm-hm.
11:37Sort of at the height of the Marsha years.
11:39OK.
11:40What do you want for your future?
11:42Happiness, contentment, success.
11:50I, um...
11:51I'd like to be loved around the world,
11:54as I'm loved in Australia.
11:55That's my ambition in life.
11:57What do you think when you look at young Marsha?
11:59Who's the chick?
12:01Yeah.
12:02I mean, it's so funny, cos my face hadn't formed,
12:04but I just look like this little chubby, tall thing.
12:07You were, you were still a kid.
12:08A baby, you know.
12:10Did you get those things that you wanted?
12:12Yes.
12:13Um, um, the thing about being loved around the world,
12:17I've been offered jobs in America,
12:20but the criteria was I had to live there.
12:22And then he was growing up,
12:24and there's no way I'd bring my child up in Hollywood.
12:27Have you wondered about that,
12:28if you could have made it in America?
12:30No, cos if I did, I'd be too greedy.
12:32I'd be being greedy, cos I've done very well.
12:34You know, I've done very well, and I haven't stopped.
12:37And I don't plan to stop
12:38until I'm an embarrassment to myself and my family.
12:41How will you know?
12:42Oh, you'll know.
12:46You'll have Dicko sitting up front going...
12:50Get him off!
12:52Oh, boy.
12:54When you were 28, you got a call from your mum
12:59to tell you that Dwight had suicided.
13:01Yes.
13:02What do you remember of that call?
13:03Oh, boy.
13:04Well, I remember, first of all, my mother...
13:06Our code was,
13:07don't call me, I'll call you.
13:09So she called,
13:10so I knew something was very, very, very wrong.
13:12So the first thing I said is,
13:13what's wrong with Denny, you know?
13:15And she said, Denny's fine, your brother's dead.
13:17My mother was to the point, you know.
13:19And I said, what do you mean he's dead?
13:21And I started boo-hooing and she said, shut up.
13:24She said, I took that child
13:26through measles, mumps and chickenpox.
13:28I gave birth to that child.
13:30That's my son, don't cry, go home and bury him.
13:35And I did just that.
13:37That was a big, big turning point for me, you know.
13:41I remember when my dad died,
13:42I remember walking out of the hospital
13:44and I had this, it was a beautiful day
13:45and I had this incredible sense of,
13:47wow, he doesn't get to play anymore.
13:49Yeah, yeah.
13:50That's it.
13:51Yeah, the void, you know,
13:52the void that people that you love,
13:54they pass away, leave, you know.
13:56I was talking about my mom too.
13:58My brother, my mother and I were really tight
14:01and I missed Dwight,
14:05but he died when I was 28, I'm 52 now,
14:07so I don't think you ever get used to someone dying,
14:13but you just learn to deal with it.
14:15I was talking about my mom and I said,
14:17I miss my, like,
14:22I don't have any words for it.
14:24It's this, having said that,
14:26because I could burst into tears now,
14:28but having said that,
14:29my mom is omnipresent now
14:32and she died in my arms
14:34and that was my gift, you know,
14:36just to have some, that was huge for me,
14:39just, oh gosh.
14:41And she wasn't sick, she just died.
14:43You know, she died the day after Mother's Day.
14:47After Dwight's death, things changed a lot in your life
14:50and your career took a turn.
14:52People sort of stopped buying your records.
14:54My hiatus.
14:55Hiatus, there's a good word.
14:56It was quite a low-atus time.
14:58It was a low, low, low noise.
14:59It was, you know, it's so bizarre
15:01because everyone tells you about fame,
15:06but no one ever prepares you for what it feels like
15:09when you don't get invited to the opening of an envelope.
15:12What does it feel like?
15:14Bizarre.
15:16Because confidence comes from doing something
15:19over and over and over again
15:22and then when you stop doing it,
15:25you get less and less confident.
15:28Being a star from 16 years old,
15:30the moment I walked into this country,
15:31I was like, I was such a star.
15:34And then in my 30s,
15:38so luckily, I've had the same manager for my whole career
15:41and he said, Masha, you've got nothing to say.
15:44You've got nothing to do right now.
15:49You could do the clubs for the rest of your life,
15:52but I know it wouldn't make you happy.
15:54So you've got a house.
15:58Stay home.
16:00And when you've got something to say,
16:01we'll come back out again.
16:03And I think that's really cool because, you know,
16:05me not working meant he didn't get his 20% either.
16:08Do you know what I mean?
16:09You didn't just withdraw from the RSL scene
16:12and withdraw from that sort of performing.
16:14You really went into your shell at the start.
16:15I did.
16:16Yeah, I'm a cancerian too, so, you know, that's the shell.
16:20So I get really sensitive and it was like
16:22I didn't want to deal with anything much.
16:24Didn't want to.
16:25So luckily, I had my mom saying, get over it, Noah.
16:28Trust me.
16:29You didn't want to talk to her though, did you?
16:30No, I didn't want to talk to anybody.
16:31I was really introspective, is that the word?
16:34I went really in because I hadn't had time
16:37to even know who Marsha was.
16:38So I thought, well, let me just sit here
16:40and work this out here
16:41and see if I really want to sing
16:43because I even went there.
16:45Do I really want to sing anymore?
16:47I don't know.
16:48I don't know.
16:49And I think if you don't question what you're doing,
16:52you're not doing it.
16:53You've got to metamorphosize.
16:55You've got to maybe stop and take stock
16:58and then move a couple steps
17:00and then when you're able, you know,
17:01maybe you can jog and then you can just power.
17:03And that's what my life's kind of been like.
17:05A turning point for you was the first time
17:07you performed at the Mardi Gras in 1990,
17:09which was, that was a really important gig for you, wasn't it?
17:12It was huge and it was the biggest gig I'd done
17:15for some time, probably ever.
17:17And I closed Mardi Gras.
17:20And to walk into Mardi Gras at like 7.30 in the morning
17:24is something to behold.
17:26Whoa.
17:29And so I went to my dressing room and got dressed.
17:32And they put me on a cherry picker, I remember.
17:35And they put me up really high
17:37and I got onto my position and the music started
17:40and the audience realized it was me.
17:42And I've never since then or till now
17:46ever gotten such an incredible ovation in my life.
17:49You know, I mean, it's almost embarrassing
17:52when people really applaud you,
17:54like that was nothing I'd ever experienced.
17:56And I went home and I always smiled
17:57and my mother said, well, what happened?
17:59How was it?
18:00I said, I could die now, Ma.
18:02I could die now.
18:03It was just bliss, it was bliss.
18:05And to be embraced, you know.
18:07Because all performers, I think,
18:09we want to be loved or something like that
18:12because there's nothing nicer than sitting down
18:15and showing yourself.
18:18When you sing, you're showing who you are.
18:22You know, you're showing the very essence of who you are.
18:25And you're giving love.
18:28So if that's what you're doing, how can it ever be bad?
18:31Have you ever, since that day,
18:33asked yourself the question again,
18:35do I want to sing?
18:38No, no.
18:40You know, I don't know who I thought I was fooling
18:42when I did say that.
18:43But, you know, I mean, I don't think it was bad,
18:46but no, I've not asked myself that since, no.
18:49At about 1990, Denny, with The Rockmelons,
18:53had a hit with this song.
18:55Wonder this time where he's gone
19:01Wonder if he's gonna stay
19:07Ain't no sunshine when he's gone
19:10And this house just ain't no home
19:13Any time he goes away
19:17Yeah
19:19My baby.
19:22She must have been so proud.
19:26She's so beautiful.
19:28I think my daughter has been the most beautiful thing
19:31I've ever set eyes on from the moment I saw her.
19:34And to see her grow up into this lady,
19:36it was outstanding, you know.
19:38And thank God she can sing.
19:42Well, was that a spur to you?
19:44Suddenly you were Denny Hines' mom.
19:46Yeah, I always have been though, eh?
19:49So I always have been.
19:50But it was very interesting
19:52because people say strange things like,
19:55oh, you know, she's gonna give you a run for your money.
19:58Now, I was never taught to ever compete with my child.
20:01As a matter of fact, I don't compete with anybody.
20:03I compete with myself and that's true competition.
20:06I know what I'm gonna do next, you know.
20:08And if you're doing well,
20:09take the baton and run with it, you know.
20:12So I got a lot of that stuff from people, you know,
20:15but I wasn't brought up in that way.
20:17And so Denny did very well.
20:19Denny will continue to do very well
20:21and I will continue to encourage and love my daughter forever.
20:24What advice do you give her?
20:26I don't.
20:27You don't?
20:28I'm her mother.
20:29She doesn't ask for it or you don't want to give it?
20:30I'm her mother.
20:31She doesn't...
20:32No, Denny doesn't ask for advice.
20:33Not much.
20:34She's asking now that she's in her 30s more.
20:36But when she was 20, she was like, talk to the hand.
20:39LAUGHTER
20:41Idol, Australian Idol for you has been another rebirth,
20:44another phase in your career.
20:45It has.
20:46Has the business of fame changed much?
20:49Yeah.
20:50Somebody worked out you can make a lot of money in music.
20:53Because when I did it, it wasn't quite like that.
20:55We didn't make that much money.
20:56We were just doing it because that was what we did.
20:59You did well.
21:00I did well, I did.
21:01But I was advised well, you know.
21:03And so I did well and a few other people I know did well.
21:08But most musicians you'll find
21:11will probably perform for rent and a meal.
21:15That's the essence of a musician, you know.
21:17As you look at these kids, would you want to be starting out today?
21:22As a 16-year-old, would you want to be in that machine?
21:24I'd do it, yeah, I'd do it.
21:25Because that's what I do, you know.
21:27And what I hope I bring to Australian Idol is honesty and empathy.
21:33Because I know how they feel.
21:35I know how it feels to have music floating through every piece of your body.
21:41You know, you can't...
21:43I said this morning, I woke up singing a Queen song.
21:45Every morning I wake up singing something.
21:47Luckily, my husband's patient.
21:48I wake up singing, you know.
21:50I'm both up singing.
21:51And so if that's what you do, that's what you do.
21:55And to discourage them, I'd be, you know...
21:59You wouldn't do that.
22:01You are the supportive judge.
22:03That's who you are.
22:05I'm the sane judge.
22:06You're the sane judge.
22:08Idol is built on the real fears and sometimes real tears.
22:13And sometimes the humiliation of some of these people.
22:17Do you feel a party to that?
22:18No.
22:19How do you separate yourself?
22:21I don't get it.
22:22Well, because I can't ever be responsible for the words that come out of my colleagues' mouths.
22:27And I am the person that I am because of positive.
22:30Not because of negative.
22:32But honesty too, you know.
22:34Have you really had to go to someone after a show?
22:37I had a really big go at Dicko one year.
22:41Was that over the pool or anything?
22:43Yeah.
22:44With the dress?
22:45Yeah.
22:46Because you know, black people, your butt's your calling card, okay?
22:50It's nothing to be ashamed of.
22:52Hang on.
22:53We got the clip here because I thought you were going to erase this.
22:56Just so, for those that don't watch Idol, this is what Dicko said to one of the contestants on the show.
23:00This is really hard for me to say, but it's the real world.
23:04You should choose more appropriate clothes or shed some pants.
23:07I'm sorry.
23:13What did you say to him off camera?
23:16What do you like?
23:17I said.
23:18And you, I said, and your painting?
23:21I said a lot of stuff.
23:23I can swear.
23:25Yeah.
23:26And I just said, you know, like, you got daughters.
23:29And you, you're going to pay for this.
23:33I said, I don't think you know what you've just done.
23:35And then she didn't know where to go.
23:37And I mean, Pauline is a very gracious girl.
23:40But I just couldn't believe he'd say that.
23:43You know, because kids suffer so much with body image anyway.
23:46You know, and well, God bless the girls who were born skinny.
23:50You know, if that's what you want to be.
23:52But like I said, my butt's my calling card.
23:55So I don't think a butt's a bad thing.
23:57I think a curvaceous girl is a good thing.
23:59So I think whoever you are is a good thing.
24:02But for Dicko to do that, and I mean, I just couldn't believe it.
24:07You talk about having music running through you.
24:09I asked before you came on tonight if you would sing a song.
24:12And I said no.
24:13You said no.
24:15And then I said, well, I'll sing.
24:16And then you said yes.
24:17Yes.
24:18But what I actually asked was, I didn't want you to sing a single
24:22or, you know, just some hit.
24:24Sing a song that you love to sing.
24:27What song have you chosen and why?
24:30I chose I Don't Know How To Love Him.
24:33Seeing Jesus Christ Superstar changed my whole attitude about theater.
24:37It was the most amazing spectacle I'd ever seen, you know.
24:41And to get a gig like that, I mean, I was quite,
24:45every gig I get I'm quite aware of how good it is, you know.
24:48But that was probably the best gig I've ever gotten, you know.
24:51It was so on time.
24:53If you get my drift, it was so on time.
24:55And I still get nervous singing I Don't Know How To Love Him.
24:57Yeah?
24:58Yeah.
24:59A lot of words, you know.
25:00I forgot one night when.
25:04Well, at the end of the show, Marsha is going to sing
25:06I Don't Know How To Love Him for us.
25:07Don't be too nervous.
25:08It's been a pleasure having you.
25:10Thank you very much.
25:11It's been an honor.