Putin went on a controversial trip. See top Ukrainian official reaction
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00:00Can I ask you about the Kursk incursion?
00:03This seemed to come as a big surprise to everybody.
00:06You obviously have very good operational security, but even your allies were surprised.
00:11Why did you do this?
00:13Let's just say from the diplomatic perspective, which you are the chief diplomat.
00:17What is the strategy behind this?
00:20Well, first, every war of this scale that we are having has multiple theaters of war.
00:28Things happen simultaneously in different directions,
00:31and you have to constantly think how to make the life of your enemy more complicated,
00:38how to impose your will on the enemy and not endure the will of the enemy imposed on you.
00:49Second, you remember we spoke in the spring, I think,
00:53and everyone was talking about a stalemate in the war,
00:56and there is nothing Ukraine can do.
00:58Ukraine cannot change the course of the war.
01:00Russia is moving, is advancing, and there is nothing Ukraine can do.
01:04And it had a direct impact in capitals among our partners in their decision-making processes.
01:10Now we showed everyone we defeated.
01:13Not only we defeated the Russian army in Kursk,
01:16we defeated the argument so popular among our partners that there was a stalemate
01:22because now everyone sees what we've been talking about all the time.
01:27When Ukraine has everything it needs, we do not lack courage and military skill to advance and win.
01:36This is something you wanted to show your partners.
01:39It's a morale boost for your own people.
01:41Was it aimed at changing a calculation in Moscow, too, to Putin or people around Putin?
01:48I don't believe in people around Putin.
01:51I think what people of Russia saw is that Putin is more efficient in grabbing someone else's land
02:00than in defending his own land.
02:02And I think this is a very important message that none of us can fully appreciate
02:11in the sense of its impact on the people of Russia, but it's there.
02:15They're talking about it, they're asking themselves questions,
02:18and now that the Russians see how the Russian army is evening with the ground,
02:23Russian villages, Russian houses, that has a very negative impact on them as well.
02:29Talking about grabbing territory, as you know, Russians are advancing on Pokrovsk,
02:35on important logistical hubs.
02:39Was this worth it, this trade-off?
02:41Because there is, as you can tell in the chatter around, there's some anger amongst Ukrainians.
02:47They say, hang on a second, there's one thing going up there, but don't forget,
02:51we need to be able to defend the territory that we're trying to defend here.
02:55This is also really important.
02:57Can you talk to that and to the trade-off if there is such one?
03:01First, we do not think in terms of trade-offs.
03:03This is not our logic.
03:05We are not trading our territories, we are not trading our people.
03:09There was a clear objective to make Russia's life more difficult,
03:16and this was one of the key goals of the Kursk operation.
03:21Second, as President Zelensky stated on numerous occasions,
03:25we have taken many prisoners of war in Kursk,
03:29which will allow us to do a swap and bring more of our soldiers back.
03:35This is a very important issue.
03:37And the territorial swap, possibly, is that also an issue?
03:40I mean, if you occupy however many square kilometres of Russian land,
03:45is that also a bargaining chip?
03:48No, we don't think of it in terms of swapping territories,
03:53because that will imply that we have to swap something in Ukraine,
03:57and we won't do that.
03:59But, again, if we were not doing anything,
04:03and Russia was still advancing near Pokrovsk,
04:07the argument would be why you are not doing anything.
04:10We've done something, something that is having an impact,
04:14but it does not undermine our efforts in Pokrovsk.
04:18Of course, our generals are better fit to talk about this matter,
04:23but from what I see, again, this is a war of multiple theatres,
04:29and we should never waste an opportunity to inflict more damage on the enemy.
04:35So, as you spoke at the beginning, the Russians see winter coming.
04:39They want to attack your energy grid like they did the first winter, for sure.
04:44And you are also attacking their refineries.
04:47I mean, let's face it.
04:49And the West doesn't like that, because it jacks up the price of oil.
04:52But there has been a report that there was some diplomacy
04:57potentially underway to have at least some kind of localised ceasefire
05:02on energy infrastructure for the winter that Qatar or someone else might mediate.
05:08Can you confirm that to us and tell us this is before the Kursk incursion?
05:12Well, ever since the large-scale invasion began,
05:15there were numerous attempts to do diplomacy
05:19against the background of the raging front line.
05:23Some initiatives were more successful than others.
05:27But first and foremost, to think that Ukraine was attacked, Ukraine is being attacked.
05:37We lost half of our energy generation as a result of Russian attacks.
05:41You don't have to bargain with them on this.
05:43They must stop it.
05:45This is, I think, clear to everyone.
05:49What I can say is that rumours that Kursk operation killed the opportunity to defend Ukraine,
05:59to stop Russian attacks on Ukraine's energy infrastructure, are largely exaggerated.
06:06As I said, you have a delegation trying to persuade the administration to do many things.
06:10I also want to understand where you are with NATO.
06:13You were hoping for an invitation to start the process during the summer summit.
06:18It didn't come.
06:20Do you think it's going to come any time soon?
06:23If I didn't, I wouldn't.
06:25When do you think it might?
06:27Well, I clearly see an opportunity for that to happen before the next summit,
06:33NATO summit in the Netherlands in 2025.
06:37I think when there is a will, there is a way.
06:41And the way is actually clear.
06:43You don't even have to look for it.
06:45Because by all accounts, Ukraine can receive an invitation, even now, even today.
06:52Because we are not talking about imminent membership in NATO.
06:57This is just about clarifying the signal, about removing this, there is a saying, the constructive ambiguity.
07:09It's not constructive anymore.
07:11So I think for us, the issue of the invitation is still on the table.
07:16We are bringing this point up in talks with our allies, of course, first and foremost with the United States.
07:22And we want to make it very clear, we're not talking about becoming a NATO member tomorrow.
07:28We're talking about extending invitation to Ukraine today.
07:31Meantime, can you tell us about the four-point victory plan that you're also going to present to the administration?
07:37What is that?
07:38Let's leave it to the president.
07:39He made a teaser about it.
07:43And it's a very short, but in my view, very efficient way.
07:52If partners decide to support it, president will himself reveal all the details at the appropriate time.
07:59Lastly, as we speak, and as these ballistic missiles keep raining down,
08:04President Putin is in Mongolia, being received by the president there.
08:08Mongolia is a signatory to the ICC.
08:10The president has been indicted for removing Ukrainian children.
08:16What's your reaction to that?
08:19Did you talk to the Mongolians?
08:21It's strong.
08:22Well, we told them we sent a very clear message ahead of the visit.
08:28It was ignored.
08:30We sent a very clear message after the visit began.
08:34It seems to be ignored as well.
08:37We will be talking inside of Ukraine and also with our partners on how Mongolia's respect towards its own international obligations under the rules.
08:49But you don't expect President Putin to be arrested while he's there?
08:52Well, I do.
08:53But from everything I've seen so far, it seems to me that Mongolia decided to blatantly violate its obligations under the Rome Statute.
09:02Foreign Minister Kuleba, thank you very much indeed for being with us.