• 2 months ago
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What Was The First Formal Operation of Pakistan's Navy in History? Capt. (R) Ahmed Zaheer's Analysis

Pakistan Navy Samndron Ki Pasbaan, Vice Admiral (R) Faisal Rasul Lodhi Analysis

11 Hour Pakistan Navy Ke Jungi Jahaz PNS Babar Se Special Program

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Transcript
00:00In the name of Allah, the most Gracious, the most Merciful, Assalam-o-Alaikum, I, Waseem
00:15Badami, welcome you to this special program.
00:16And why a special program?
00:17Let me tell you in your service.
00:18It is obvious that the protection of borders of any country is based on the peace and security
00:19of that country.
00:20On September 6, the day of defence of Pakistan, then on September 7 and then on September 8,
00:27it is celebrated as the day of Bahria of Pakistan.
00:30So, it is obvious that the way we talk about the protection of the borders of Pakistan,
00:35there is also talk of the waters of Pakistan.
00:38And how big is the title of Pakistan?
00:41You understand more or less that when we say that according to the title of Pakistan,
00:46Balochistan is the largest province, then if we are talking only according to the title
00:51of Pakistan, how much percentage of Pakistan is covered by water, then to put it in simple
00:56words, it is the largest province after Balochistan.
00:58That is, it is the largest after Balochistan from any other province of Pakistan.
01:01It is not so much that it is the largest province after Pakistan.
01:04It is not so much that it is the largest province after Pakistan.
01:07It is not so much that it is the largest province after Pakistan.
01:08It is not so much that it is the largest province after Pakistan.
01:09It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
01:10It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
01:11It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
01:12It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
01:13It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
01:14It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
01:15It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
01:16It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
01:17It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
01:18It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
01:19It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
01:20It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
01:21It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
01:22It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
01:23It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
01:24It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
01:25It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
01:26It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
01:27It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
01:28It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
01:29It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
01:30It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
01:31It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
01:32It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
01:33It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
01:34It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
01:35It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
01:36It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
01:37It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
01:38It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
01:39It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
01:40It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
01:41It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
01:42It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
01:43It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
01:44It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
01:45It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
01:46It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
01:47It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
01:48It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
01:49It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
01:50It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
01:51It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
01:52It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
01:53It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
01:54It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
01:55It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
01:56It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
01:57It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
01:58It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
01:59It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
02:00It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
02:01It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
02:02It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
02:03It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
02:04It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
02:05It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
02:06It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
02:07It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
02:08It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
02:09It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
02:10It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
02:11It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
02:12It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
02:13It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
02:14It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
02:15It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
02:16It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
02:17It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
02:18It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
02:19It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
02:20It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
02:21It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
02:22It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
02:23It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
02:24It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
02:25It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
02:26It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
02:27It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
02:28It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
02:29It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
02:30It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
02:32it is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
02:47It is not so much that it is the largest province after Balochistan.
02:59This is a very unique program because it is not only the first talk show from the PNS Babar,
03:07but it is also the first talk show from any Pakistani Navy warship that you are watching.
03:15And this ship, as I just said, has joined the Pakistani Navy fleet just a few days ago.
03:22It was launched on September 6.
03:24I am currently on the flight deck where the helicopters land.
03:30And I will also tell you what is inside the ship.
03:33So today's program will be focused on these parts.
03:36First, we will quickly visit the PNS Babar to see what is inside the ship and what are its components.
03:44Then, we will sit with one of the most prominent officers of the Pakistani Navy
03:50and ask some basic questions about the Navy.
03:53And then, in a few simple words, we will go into the history of the Navy,
03:57what was the role of the Navy in the 1965 war, and what is the relationship of the Navy today.
04:03We will also talk about this in today's special program.
04:24This is the helicopter hangar of the ship.
04:27So the helicopter lands there?
04:29Yes, the helicopter lands there.
04:31And the helicopter has the capability of embarking in this ship.
04:35The purpose of this is that the helicopter is an integral part of the ship.
04:39Whenever this ship moves, the helicopter has to be there.
04:46The helicopter comes to the flight deck when it has to fly.
04:49Then we secure it here.
04:54There are different types of equipment on the ship.
04:58This is our aft damage control repair locker.
05:03In case there is any damage to the ship, teams come here.
05:09We have different types of controls available here,
05:14with which we can turn on and off various equipment of the ship.
05:18We have different types of gear available here,
05:22which people use to do damage control or firefighting.
05:29This area is our sick bay,
05:34which is a small medical place.
05:37Sick bay, okay.
05:40The sick bay of our ship is very well equipped.
05:43We have equipment to handle any type of emergency on the ship.
05:49Do you have a medical expert?
05:50Yes, we have a doctor on the ship.
05:52And we also have medical staff.
05:58The facilities regarding medicines over here.
06:01We have two bedded detentions.
06:04Over here we detain our patients.
06:06And this one is our minor operation theatre.
06:10We do minor surgeries over here,
06:13like suturing the lacerated bones.
06:16Besides that, we remove our gun shots.
06:18Sir, what type of emergency equipment do you use on the ship?
06:25Our ship is a warship.
06:30The role of the warship in peacetime is human assistance and disaster response.
06:36Whenever there is a case of drowning,
06:38let's suppose, a case of man-over-board,
06:40a case of a fisherman's boat,
06:42if they drown,
06:43we have to recover them through medical boarding.
06:48And we bring them here.
06:50This ship has all the facilities of a mini hospital.
06:54If you can see, we have an ECG machine here.
06:57We have a carding unit here.
06:58We even have a portable ventilator facility
07:02for the first ship of Pakistan Airways,
07:05Let's suppose, if we find a patient
07:08who needs a ventilator,
07:12we can go to Bihilo and get it ventilated.
07:16Thank you, sir. Likewise.
07:23This is the ward room, also known as the office lounge.
07:25We hold various briefings here.
07:31We also hold presentations.
07:33We also hold such big ceremonies here.
07:45This is called the bridge.
07:47The bridge controls the ship from here.
07:50The ship's machinery is controlled from here.
07:53And the route the ship has to take is controlled from here.
08:00We have the latest navigation equipment on the ship's bridge.
08:05It has the latest radars,
08:07and advanced machinery controls.
08:10We have all kinds of navigation aid facilities here
08:14to safely steer the ship from one place to another.
08:21I think Murad wants to move from here.
08:24The ship we see in pictures is so big.
08:27Now it has come to this.
08:29It used to be a big ship.
08:32Now it's quite small.
08:35This is the hydraulic system.
08:38The signals that are generated here
08:40are communicated to the rudder at the back.
08:43You can turn the rudder to the right or left,
08:47whatever you want to maintain.
08:51This is the ship's fossil.
08:53You can see different types of equipment here.
08:56These are our vertical launch missiles.
08:59These are our vertical launch missiles.
09:02These are missiles?
09:03Yes, these are missiles.
09:04It has surface-to-air missiles, vertical launch.
09:06Surface-to-air missiles.
09:07Yes, yes.
09:08This is our super rapid gun.
09:10It can fire 120 rounds per minute.
09:14Oh, oh, oh.
09:15Yes, yes.
09:16It can fire 120 rounds per minute.
09:19Oh, oh, oh.
09:20Yes, yes.
09:21And what is its range?
09:23It has a range of 15 kilometers.
09:25If you look at the top,
09:27this is our main surveillance radar.
09:32Okay.
09:33It has a very good range, a long range 3D radar.
09:37The specialty of this radar is that
09:39it can detect the latest threats of the enemy.
09:44This ship also has fire control radars
09:46which can detect incoming threats from a distance
09:50and can intercept them with our surface-to-air missiles.
10:07I have heard that these ships are going to different parts of the world.
10:12So in a way, these ships are representing the country
10:15wherever they are going in the world.
10:17Yes, yes, absolutely.
10:18It is a unique honor of the Pakistan Navy
10:21that we have been conducting peace exercises since 2007.
10:25And in this, China, Russia, US, Western navies
10:30and our regional navies ships are participating,
10:34aircrafts are participating,
10:35their special operations forces are participating.
10:38So it's a big achievement for Pakistan.
10:39The event that took place on September 6th,
10:41where the President of Pakistan and the Naval Chief were present,
10:44two ships were inducted.
10:46One of them is PNS Babur and the other is PNS Hunain.
10:50You can see them right in front of you.
10:51We are standing at a very historical place right now.
10:53Now we will go back to the same place
10:55where we started the flight deck.
10:57And there we will talk to one of the top officers of the Pakistan Navy.
11:04And he will give us some basic information and some basic questions.
11:09So we have a very relevant person with us in this regard.
11:34I myself have come here as a person who wants to know
11:39about this department of the Pakistan Navy,
11:42about today's day,
11:45about today's historical background,
11:47that is, the story that goes on till September 6th.
11:50So this is Captain Retired Ahmed Zaheer,
11:53who is a very relevant person in this regard
11:55because the History and Archive Center,
11:57that is, he is the Director of the History and Archive Center.
12:04He has been in your service for 30 years.
12:07And he is from the Operation Branch of the Navy.
12:09Captain Retired Ahmed Zaheer.
12:11Sir, thank you very much for your time.
12:13Sir, if I want to know from the very beginning,
12:15this 1965 came later,
12:17if I ask you that in the history of Pakistan,
12:20the first proper operation of the Navy,
12:23we still remember 1965.
12:26Before that, when was the first proper operation and what was it?
12:29Absolutely.
12:30Look, when Pakistan was formed in 1947,
12:33we were the senior service.
12:35Before the Army, the Navy, Army and Air Force were the seniority.
12:40And in Karachi, there was the Naval Headquarters,
12:44the seat of government was also there.
12:46And there was a lot of relationship with the Navy.
12:48So if you look at the history,
12:51the Lakshadweep Islands,
12:5397% of the population was Muslim.
12:58Okay.
12:59And as per the Batwara, the Radcliffe Award,
13:04it was decided that all the Muslim majority areas
13:08will join Pakistan.
13:10Okay.
13:11Accordingly, 97% of the population was supposed to join us.
13:15But my brother Patel,
13:19the Deputy Prime Minister of India,
13:21he decided that no,
13:23only the land-contingent areas will come with them,
13:27there will be no difference in the islands.
13:29Oh.
13:30When Liaquat Ali Khan found out,
13:32it is on record that the first signal,
13:35or the first military signal that he made,
13:38he made to the Navy.
13:40And in that, he said to the Navy,
13:42send a ship, Lakshadweep Island.
13:44And one of our ships was in Tanzania.
13:46Send that ship from there,
13:48and you reach there and take over Lakshadweep Island.
13:51Because they are supposed to be,
13:53we should come to their help.
13:55So this was a very important operation.
13:57Number two, we are again on record.
13:59We have to leave that,
14:01the humanitarian assistance and disaster relief
14:05that we are talking about today,
14:07in 1947, when Junagadh,
14:11when the Indians tried to annex it,
14:15the Pakistan Navy ships,
14:17Balochistan and Sindh,
14:19they went and carried wheat from here,
14:22and carried other rations,
14:24because the entire area,
14:26the Indians had sealed it.
14:29So we started doing those operations.
14:31The story starts from 1947.
14:33From that time.
14:34After the establishment of Pakistan.
14:35Yes, yes, yes.
14:36From Khawribad.
14:37Yes, yes, yes.
14:38After that, Pesat came.
14:398th September, Yom-e-Behriya,
14:41why is it celebrated?
14:42What is the historical significance of 8th September?
14:46This was the war of 1965.
14:498th September is the day
14:52when our Navy,
14:55the Pakistan Navy,
14:57attacked a three times bigger enemy than us.
15:03In terms of India's size, it was multiplied by three.
15:05Yes, exactly.
15:06And such an enemy,
15:082-3 years before that,
15:10a very big operation,
15:12the Indians had annexed Goa,
15:15and the Indian Navy played a big role in that.
15:18And such an operation,
15:20in which they tried all kinds of things,
15:23to interfere in run-of-catch operations.
15:26So, we know all this, we ask.
15:29What Quaid-e-Azam had said,
15:31courage, determination and fortitude,
15:35keeping that in mind,
15:38we decided to do our job.
15:41Why did we do it?
15:42We did it because,
15:44Karachi,
15:46when the war started,
15:49on that 6th,
15:52around 6 in the morning,
15:54the first attack on Karachi,
15:56it was from an aircraft,
15:58and it was an Indian Air Force aircraft.
16:01And the Air Headquarters called the Naval Headquarters,
16:04and Air Marshal Akhtar used to be there.
16:07He said, sir, let's do something about this.
16:09There is a radar,
16:11which is installed at Dwarka.
16:14And what is the location of Dwarka?
16:16Because Operation Dwarka is very famous.
16:18It is 210 miles away from us.
16:21From Pakistan and Karachi,
16:24approximately 210 miles away.
16:25Yes.
16:26That was the location.
16:28Indian aircraft used to come there first,
16:31and they used to take a radar,
16:34and through a radio beacon,
16:36they were guided to go there,
16:38and attack Karachi.
16:40They said, our Air Force is very busy right now,
16:44with Army operations,
16:46up north.
16:47For the south,
16:49we cannot afford to spare aircraft,
16:51for this particular thing.
16:53We will knock off this radar.
16:55Okay.
16:56And that's precisely what we did.
16:59The important thing is that,
17:01this was not a pre-planned operation.
17:04Yes.
17:05For which you are working hard.
17:07Yes, for which you have worked hard.
17:09There was nothing like that.
17:11On 6th, this action took place.
17:13The Naval Headquarters decided.
17:15They said, sir, send one aircraft.
17:17At that time, there was no computer.
17:19There was no digital system.
17:21They said, come and take written orders from us.
17:24And take them,
17:26and on the night of 7th and 8th,
17:28after midnight,
17:30you have to do this action.
17:32And everything was written on it.
17:34And you went.
17:36None of our aircraft said,
17:38I don't have enough fuel.
17:40I don't have this thing.
17:41You are not prepared.
17:42Yes, I am not prepared.
17:44They went with their full preparation.
17:46They went to the enemy's waters,
17:51to the coastal area.
17:54They knew that they had an aircraft carrier.
17:59They had three new aircraft,
18:02which they bought in 1962.
18:04We had all the aircraft of the Second World War.
18:07So this was a matter of courage.
18:09And this was professional confidence in our force.
18:14This was the high state of morale.
18:17They said, sir, this is fine.
18:18So this operation,
18:20how many hours or days did it take roughly?
18:23Thanks to good planning,
18:25we just had to identify the location of the aircraft,
18:31and give it treatment.
18:33And that treatment,
18:35in 30 minutes,
18:3730 minutes past midnight,
18:40in 8 minutes,
18:42365 ground,
18:4426 cannons of the Navy,
18:48were dropped on it.
18:50Without any casualty?
18:51Without, no, no casualty.
18:53Nobody came out?
18:55No casualty.
18:56No Indian came out.
18:58I see.
18:59Yes.
19:00And...
19:01They just went back?
19:02Yes.
19:03Although they had an aircraft carrier,
19:05they could have come.
19:06They could have sent aircraft,
19:08but nothing came.
19:10And we went and operated it.
19:13After that, they could have sent ships,
19:15but they did not respond.
19:18As a layman,
19:20even today,
19:22this is a very historical program,
19:25that in PNS Barber,
19:27this is the first proper talk show in any ship.
19:30So, as a layman,
19:33when these ships go into the deep sea,
19:36how many days do they take?
19:38What happens?
19:39See, it is different.
19:40It is different depending on the type of the ship,
19:43and type of the operation.
19:44But,
19:45I just want to identify this thing,
19:49because the sea is a very big asset of ours.
19:53Out of 180 countries,
19:56only 90 countries have the sea.
20:00Not in half the countries of the world.
20:01No.
20:02They are not blessed enough.
20:04And we have this,
20:06and it is the cheapest medium of transportation.
20:09So, our operations,
20:11and looking at our geographic location,
20:13looking at all these things,
20:15they depend on
20:17which operation we are going for.
20:19It can start from 7 days at sea,
20:23for an exercise.
20:25Here, these days,
20:27we have regional maritime security patrols.
20:29We have participation with the American Navy.
20:32They go for months.
20:34Sir, thank you very much for your time.
20:36Thank you very much.
20:48So, to know some basic things about the Navy,
20:51we have a person with us.
20:53Vice Admiral Retired Faisal Rasool Lodhi Sahib,
20:56Hilal Imtiaz Military.
20:58He has served the Navy for more than four decades,
21:01for 41 years.
21:03And he was a former Vice Chief of Naval Staff.
21:06So, of course, we can get some basic questions,
21:09in an innocent manner.
21:11Sir, thank you very much for your time.
21:12Assalam-o-Alaikum.
21:13Thank you very much.
21:15Sir, thank you very much for your time.
21:16Assalam-o-Alaikum.
21:17Thank you very much. I feel honored.
21:18What is the significance of Navy Day?
21:22Navy Day is an extension of the Defence Day of Pakistan.
21:28We all know that it is a milestone in our national history.
21:35We are all proud of this day.
21:37But I see it from three different angles.
21:42In English, it is called reaffirmation.
21:46But it is the first day of reaffirmation.
21:49This is the day when we should be thankful to Allah.
21:53And we are.
21:54He has blessed us with a lot of blessings,
21:57with the blessing of freedom.
21:59And after that, He gave us the ability and the ability
22:03that for 75 years, despite all its challenges,
22:08He has ensured this freedom and the peace of the country.
22:12He has made sacrifices.
22:13But none of this would have been possible
22:15if it was not for Allah's special grace.
22:17So we should always be thankful to Almighty Allah for this blessing.
22:23That is one.
22:24Correct.
22:25The second is the renewal of loyalty in my religion.
22:29With our martyrs, with our Ghazis,
22:32who sacrificed their lives,
22:34who demonstrated extensive courage and bravery
22:39and gathered the teeth of five times our enemies
22:44and ensured the peace of the country.
22:46So we want to assure them that we will never forget you
22:51and our future generations will never forget you.
22:53Correct.
22:54That is number two.
22:56Third is, in my view, the renewal of loyalty.
23:00Loyalty is a commitment of the Pakistan Army
23:05to our people, to this country,
23:08that if we have to sacrifice our lives for the peace and security of our country,
23:16then we will always do so.
23:18We will never disown it.
23:19There is an impression that the Navy,
23:21because there are different branches of the Army,
23:25the Navy has a branch that is within the maritime borders.
23:28If there is a war or a situation like a war,
23:31then it is to deal with it.
23:33Is this the only job of the Navy?
23:37Or if I ask, for example,
23:39in the last few decades, there has not been a proper war.
23:41And now we see that,
23:42what we understand is that it is becoming less and less,
23:46a conventional war.
23:48So is there a proper war of the Navy?
23:50One cannon is firing from here,
23:51a bullet is firing from there,
23:52a missile is firing from here.
23:53Are there duties other than that?
23:56This is a very interesting question.
23:58If we look at the history of the Navy,
24:02and evaluate the roles and functions of the Navy all over the world,
24:06then this is probably the only branch of the Armed Forces,
24:10whose other than war operations are institutionally documented.
24:18Their name itself is Operations Other Than War.
24:21And there is a whole spectrum of operations in this,
24:24including maritime security operations,
24:27humanitarian assistance,
24:29disaster relief,
24:31anti-piracy operations,
24:33operations against foreign pirates,
24:36operations against illegal trafficking,
24:40trafficking of human beings,
24:43narcotics, arms.
24:46So if I say that a war is one of the responsibilities of the Navy,
24:52and not the only one,
24:53then it would be right to say that?
24:55I will change it a little bit,
24:56because it is a fundamental responsibility.
24:59Along with this,
25:00the Navy is an established instrument of foreign policy of any country.
25:05So there are a lot of international engagements which we do.
25:08Please explain this,
25:10Let's talk about Pakistan.
25:12What is the relationship between Pakistan's foreign affairs and Pakistan's waters?
25:18In a way, you can say that we are the flag bearers of foreign affairs.
25:22The ship on which you are sitting is the sovereign territory of Pakistan.
25:26When this ship goes to another country for a visit,
25:30for deployment,
25:31let's say a piece of Pakistan goes there.
25:34As an ambassador of Pakistan,
25:37this ship and its crew work there.
25:40In that, we have bilateral exercises with their army and navy.
25:47We have engagements with them.
25:50Flag showing is one purpose,
25:53but the bilateral relations have a very positive impact.
25:58It's a mobile embassy.
26:00It's a mobile embassy.
26:01I think that's a very correct term you are using.
26:03Apart from this, we keep sending for other missions which are very important.
26:07There are about 8 or 10 partner countries in Africa.
26:13In the last 6 years,
26:15I think we have sent a ship there on 3 occasions.
26:19We also sent a hospital ship.
26:21There, in 6 to 7 countries,
26:23where it was needed,
26:24we sent medical camps there.
26:25And thousands of patients were seen there.
26:28After that, we sent relief goods.
26:31In Niger and Benin,
26:33we sent 1,000 tons of relief goods when needed.
26:36Okay.
26:37Apart from this,
26:38disaster relief has a very traditional role of the Navy.
26:40There was a tsunami in 2004.
26:42In that, about 400 foreigners from our ship,
26:45they still remember,
26:46were evacuated from Mala.
26:50In Qatar, during the FIFA World Cup,
26:52our ship provided maritime security.
26:54Although there were many other people who were in need.
26:56All right.
26:57Including our neighbors.
26:58Correct.
26:59Diplomatically, I think,
27:00our foreign office,
27:01our defense wings did a good job.
27:04And our ship won that bid.
27:07And we actually went there
27:09and ensured the seaward protection of that event.
27:12So, this is very interesting.
27:13There are many other issues apart from war,
27:16in which foreign affairs also come into play.
27:18Let me ask one more question.
27:20We also say in our daily programs
27:22that the discussion of our programs
27:25revolves around the politics of Pakistan.
27:28But no one can deny
27:30that nothing is more important than economy.
27:33Because the common man,
27:34at the end of the day,
27:35is more concerned about
27:36how much money I have in my pocket,
27:38whether I can pay this bill or not,
27:39whether I can do this or not.
27:41All these operations of the Navy,
27:43to run the economy of Pakistan
27:46or to improve it,
27:48I mean,
27:49does it have anything to do with it
27:51or is it completely different?
27:53I would say,
27:54it has an intertwining nature
27:56of security and economy.
27:58If there is no secure environment,
28:01then it is very difficult to do economic activity there.
28:04I have heard a lot about the term
28:06blue economy.
28:07How do we define this blue economy?
28:11Blue economy is,
28:13in very simple terms,
28:15the sustainable use of sea resources.
28:18Now, what are sea resources?
28:20Everyone knows that there is fish.
28:22But then there is a whole list of
28:24potential resources
28:26which are part of sea.
28:28Okay.
28:29It has minerals,
28:30hydrocarbons,
28:31coastal tourism,
28:33the function of shipping ports,
28:36coastal development,
28:38all these departments,
28:39they are part of blue economy.
28:41Alright.
28:42Because over the years,
28:43the resources on land
28:44are decreasing.
28:46Right.
28:47And that is why
28:48you have to look at the sea.
28:50Renewed energy
28:52in many countries
28:54is being gained
28:56through resources at sea.
28:58There is a breeze on the sea.
29:00It is an ideal platform.
29:02You can install turbines here,
29:05wind turbines,
29:06and you can generate a lot of energy.
29:08Technically speaking,
29:10in recent history,
29:12all the progressing economies of the world,
29:17in most of them,
29:19water has played a key role.
29:22Is this factually correct?
29:23Absolutely.
29:24All developed and thriving economies,
29:26they understood the importance of this
29:28a little before us.
29:29And they…
29:30We have also done our…
29:32according to our capability,
29:34and we are trying.
29:36The role of the Navy in this,
29:38as you would know,
29:40Chief of the Naval Staff,
29:41as per the notification…
29:42He is the Prime Minister of Pakistan.
29:43He is the Technical Advisor
29:45on all these issues.
29:47And having served in the Navy
29:49for so many years,
29:50for 7-8 years,
29:52all our Chiefs,
29:54they have tried their best to…
29:56Primarily, our…
29:57Do you think the response from there is ideal
29:59or there can be improvement?
30:01There is always room for improvement.
30:03But we have always received a response,
30:05Alhamdulillah,
30:06irrespective of which government it is.
30:07Correct.
30:08And as a result of that response,
30:10we have made progress in some things.
30:12First of all,
30:14maritime awareness in Pakistan…
30:16The Navy has been saying for a long time
30:18that there is a sea blindness.
30:19People don't know what the sea is.
30:21We have made a very considerate effort on that
30:23for the past two decades.
30:25And through lectures,
30:27through engaging people…
30:29For the past 7-8 years,
30:31we have been doing a maritime security workshop
30:33in which we call politicians, bureaucrats,
30:35people from all the business communities,
30:37some selected people,
30:38and we tell them,
30:39what is Navy,
30:40what is the maritime sector,
30:42how it is expanding,
30:44what are the potential areas,
30:45how do we do maritime security,
30:47and so on and so forth.
30:48There is nothing more important than economy,
30:50in many ways.
30:52When we talk about economy,
30:54we say economy,
30:56commerce,
30:57import, export.
30:58If I oversimplify this,
31:01if our economy is to be prosperous in Pakistan,
31:06if we have a very important role of prosperity and prosperity,
31:10then how much of our trade, roughly,
31:13goes or comes through water?
31:16You will be amazed to know,
31:18this figure may have come somewhere before,
31:2090% of our trade is through water.
31:23Don't tell me, 90%?
31:25Yes, 90%.
31:26Sea trade as a transportation means,
31:29undoubtedly,
31:30there is no cheaper way than the sea.
31:33It is the cheapest transportation means.
31:35We are crying about the transportation cost.
31:38But you see,
31:40we have to pay 4.5 to 5 billion dollars for freight.
31:45Because we don't have our own merchant ships.
31:47We have some,
31:49around 12-13 for us.
31:51But we don't have enough to cater all of our trade.
31:53Not at all.
31:54Majority of our trade,
31:56we pay freight charges.
31:58We don't have a container ship.
32:01So again, you are telling me,
32:0290% of Pakistan's trade,
32:05is dependent on water.
32:08Obviously, if we have to go on water,
32:10how do we go?
32:11We have to go on ships.
32:12We don't have enough ships.
32:14Again, in common terms,
32:16we buy from other countries,
32:18and then we pay the cost.
32:20Our number of ships should be much better.
32:22We have sensitized some governments on this.
32:25Some efforts have been made recently.
32:27But again, it's not at all enough, if you ask me.
32:30Similarly,
32:32the amount of oil we import,
32:34we import all the oil.
32:36It all comes from the ships.
32:38Now, when there is a war,
32:40or a conflict situation,
32:42even if there is a war in the region,
32:44for instance, we are hearing a lot about
32:46Iran, Israel,
32:48and the U.S. trade relations.
32:50The effect of this,
32:52will there be aftershocks on the sea?
32:55Because if we don't have our own container,
32:58if the charges increase,
33:00then we have to pay that.
33:02So, all this is related.
33:04In this, the Navy,
33:06Pakistan's maritime policy,
33:08which is intact now,
33:10was made in 2006-2007.
33:12The Navy gave a lot of input and
33:14tried it at that time.
33:15According to that time, it was fine.
33:17Later, we made a lot of effort,
33:19if you ask me,
33:20to renew it, to make it new,
33:22because a lot of things need to,
33:24in our view, to be changed.
33:26So, who has the authority in that?
33:28If the Government of Pakistan doesn't,
33:30then we can give a proposal.
33:32Yes, we can give a proposal.
33:34So, we gave a proposal in 2018,
33:36a very comprehensive proposal,
33:38in our opinion,
33:40that the Prime Minister should be presented,
33:42and it was approved.
33:44The Ministry of Maritime Affairs,
33:46that also needs to be reformed.
33:48If you ask me now,
33:50there are about 9 ministries,
33:52different ministries,
33:54as per the 1973 Rules of Business,
33:56who deals with the various sectors of maritime.
34:00It is very difficult to bring synergy in work.
34:02Obviously.
34:04So, we said in that proposal,
34:06that we need to revisit it a little.
34:08Channelize it, discipline it a little,
34:10so that it can be synchronized.
34:12And first of all,
34:14reform MoMA itself, strengthen it.
34:16Ministry of Maritime Affairs.
34:18So, it was done, it was approved,
34:20a committee was formed,
34:22Ministry of Maritime Affairs,
34:24there were representatives from the Navy,
34:26an inter-ministerial committee,
34:28if you ask me today,
34:30it is already formed,
34:32on paper, it is there.
34:34A little work was done on it,
34:36a lot of work could not go in that direction.
34:38Now, I think, I have heard,
34:40the Prime Minister has formed a task force,
34:42in which he has written a lot again.
34:44It is very interesting,
34:46and there are some very surprising things in it.
34:48There are some things that surprise me,
34:50that if 90% of our trade is dependent on one thing,
34:52we do not have enough containers,
34:54and we are depending on others.
34:56But this is one sector we are talking about.
34:58Yes, of course.
35:00Like fishery, there are studies,
35:02we have a potential of 2.5 to 3 billion dollars,
35:04of our waters.
35:06The regional countries,
35:08are taking advantage of that potential,
35:10and are also exporting it.
35:12We have an export sector of
35:14about 300 million dollars.
35:16Now, we need to know the reasons behind it.
35:18Of course.
35:20What are the problems in fishery?
35:22Your boats are not good.
35:24Why is the country with us,
35:26doing more potential than us?
35:28Similarly, if you talk about ship-breaking,
35:30the ship-breaking of Pakistan,
35:32you must have heard about it.
35:34Its belt,
35:36where the ship comes and reaches,
35:38Allah has blessed it,
35:40and made it one of the best in the world.
35:42And in the 1980s,
35:44if I don't recall incorrectly,
35:46we were at the top.
35:48We had the most ships,
35:50in the ship-breaking industry.
35:52Okay.
35:54Now we are number 3 or 4.
35:56Bangladesh and India have surpassed us.
36:14We have Vice Admiral Littlet,
36:16Faisal Rasool Lodhi,
36:18with us.
36:20We usually talk about
36:22Pakistan's strategic location,
36:24which is very tricky,
36:26challenging,
36:28and has its own
36:30pluses and minuses.
36:32But,
36:34we have seen the
36:36strategic location of Pakistan,
36:38which is very good.
36:40We have seen the strategic location
36:42which has its own pluses and minuses.
36:44Same goes for Navy as well,
36:46that India has a different situation.
36:48Are we strategically located
36:50in such a place,
36:52which is very tricky,
36:54and has its own
36:56advantages and disadvantages?
36:58This is a very thoughtful question.
37:00This strategic location,
37:02Pakistan is blessed on the confluence
37:04of three civilizations,
37:06Middle East, Central Asian Republic,
37:08and South Asia.
37:10The fourth largest
37:12part of the world
37:14is in this region.
37:1621 million tonnes,
37:18daily,
37:2021 million tonnes,
37:22barrels of oil,
37:2421 million barrels of oil,
37:26pass through this region.
37:28Which is 25%?
37:3025-30%.
37:32LNG is about 1.3.
37:34This is a very sensitive area.
37:36If we look at it in that sense,
37:38it has many advantages.
37:40For example,
37:42CPEC,
37:44Gwadar port,
37:46economic significance,
37:48Chinese will
37:50bolster this
37:52and it will get operationalized soon.
37:54It will be beneficial for both.
37:56The shortest route
37:58for Central Asian Republic
38:00is through Gwadar.
38:02These are the good points.
38:04I was telling you
38:06that this neighborhood
38:08is not that good.
38:10It has its own challenges.
38:12Many scholars say
38:14that the true example of
38:16the concept of realism
38:18that we see in today's history,
38:20our international system
38:22as a layman,
38:24has failed.
38:26There are so many
38:28shameless atrocities
38:30in Gaza.
38:32There is a bigger genocide
38:34happening in Gaza.
38:36Where is the international order?
38:38Same and even more intensity
38:40of atrocities
38:42in Kashmir.
38:44Human rights violations are happening.
38:48The concept of realism
38:50is a proven and tested concept.
38:52They say that
38:54interest is defined
38:56by power.
38:58All these concepts
39:00are being
39:02misinterpreted.
39:04Qadi Azam
39:06Muhammad Ali Jinnah
39:08understood this concept
39:10very well.
39:12In his first visit to Pakistan
39:14on 11th January 1948,
39:16PNS Dilawar,
39:18our unit in Karachi,
39:20gave a very long speech.
39:22He made two important points.
39:24First,
39:26he said that
39:28weakness and defenselessness
39:30invites aggression.
39:32If you are weak,
39:34you have no life.
39:36How can you overcome this?
39:38You can overcome this only
39:40by getting strong.
39:42At the same time,
39:44he was very wise.
39:46Perhaps the wisest in our history.
39:48He knew about ground realities.
39:50Strong does not mean
39:52you have to be big.
39:54He also emphasized
39:56to the Navy and the Armed Forces
39:58and to the nation
40:00that you have to
40:02cater for
40:04the smallness of your size
40:06with courage and selfless devotion.
40:08As a student,
40:10I have worked
40:12in the Navy for 40 years.
40:14In my opinion,
40:16this is central to our
40:18national security policy,
40:20our military strategy.
40:22All three armies have worked on this.
40:24We don't need to go to arms race with anyone.
40:26Resources are less.
40:28Fiscal space is always less.
40:30We should buy good things
40:32and buy less.
40:34We call it force multipliers.
40:36After that, the indigenous efforts
40:38of the three armed forces and the Navy
40:40continued.
40:42And a sizable and credible
40:44conventional deterrence capability.
40:46All three armed forces,
40:48Navy also included,
40:50we continue to maintain.
40:52In my opinion,
40:54I have spoken to some leaders
40:56of the country.
40:58We go to many countries of the world
41:00and we see that tourism plays
41:02a key role in their economy.
41:04Is there so much potential
41:06in maritime tourism
41:08that it can play
41:10a big role in your economy?
41:12In maritime tourism,
41:14there is more potential
41:16than we think.
41:18In coastal areas,
41:20I will invite you to go and
41:22see the beaches which we have.
41:24I have seen them in foreign countries.
41:26Believe me,
41:28beaches like ours,
41:30if you walk along the coast,
41:32there are no better beaches.
41:34Somehow, unfortunately,
41:36we have not been able to
41:38invest into that field.
41:40There is a lot of potential
41:42but you have to create an environment.
41:44Of course, security,
41:46armed forces, Navy, Army,
41:48paramilitary forces, they are trying their best to do.
41:50But then there has to be
41:52a systematic mechanism
41:54in which you can
41:56bring investment,
41:58in which you can
42:00do marketing,
42:02in which people will come to know
42:04that this is a beach,
42:06this is your water sports,
42:08this is your fishing, diving,
42:10deep sea diving.
42:12So, there is a lot of potential
42:14in the blue economy.
42:16This is a component of the blue economy worldwide.
42:18So, is the case with Pakistan?
42:20On many levels,
42:22our introduction is that
42:24we have gone there for tourism
42:26and that is why we know that country.
42:28So, if your country has good tourism facilities,
42:30then for many countries,
42:32it will be the introduction of Pakistan.
42:34Then your impression is good in the whole world,
42:36branding is there,
42:38money comes, but on many levels,
42:40there is a lot of benefit.
42:42Your soft image is projected.
42:44Despite anything else,
42:46we have made some efforts in certain areas,
42:48we have made some investments.
42:50So, people go there
42:52irrespective of everything else
42:54and that becomes your soft image.
42:56So, I think this is strategically also important
42:58and coastal tourism is a very
43:00renowned sector,
43:02which has a lot of potential
43:04and we should do it.
43:06Towards the end,
43:08from where we started this program,
43:10now we are sitting here,
43:12this ship is PNS Babar
43:14or Hunain, if I pronounce it correctly.
43:16And on 6th September,
43:18I myself was at the event
43:20where Naval Chief was also there,
43:22President of Pakistan was also there
43:24and the induction of these two ships took place
43:26in which we are sitting on a ship.
43:28That is why I was saying that
43:30this is a unique program of my nature
43:32because it is a talk show on a ship.
43:34So, can you tell me a little about this ship?
43:36Again, as a layman.
43:38Yes, as a layman, I will tell you.
43:40First of all, Alhamdulillah,
43:42this is a new ship.
43:44This ship, Babar,
43:46is a Milsim class ship.
43:48In collaboration with Turkey,
43:50we contracted
43:52four ships in 2018.
43:58State of the art, modern,
44:00lot of firepower in this ship.
44:02Its combat capability
44:04is very exponential.
44:06We have embraced
44:08this new technology
44:10and the advantage of vertical launchers
44:12is that your missiles,
44:14this ship is very small,
44:16so how many missiles will hit it?
44:18Two, three, four,
44:20but when you put a vertical launcher,
44:22you can have much more number of missiles
44:24as you will see.
44:26Then you can put different types of missiles
44:28on it.
44:30Then if you see our old ship somewhere,
44:32there will be a lot of antennas,
44:34launchers coming out on it,
44:36so their stealth becomes very less.
44:38So, number of advantages,
44:40apart from that,
44:42state of the art, modern,
44:44radars, equipment,
44:46all three warfare domains,
44:48surface to surface,
44:50surface to air,
44:52surface to submarine,
44:54weapons, sensors,
44:56I would say,
44:58it is as good or bad
45:00as any modern Navy.
45:02I will claim anybody.
45:04Same goes for Hunain?
45:06I will tell you in a minute.
45:08We made this four ship contract
45:10in collaboration with Turkish.
45:12Two were made there,
45:14this was made there,
45:16two are being made here.
45:18Along with this,
45:20we have acquired its design
45:22proprietary rights,
45:24courtesy of our Turkish brothers,
45:26at no additional cost.
45:28Which means that we have now
45:30the right to replicate
45:32and make more ships of this type.
45:34We have given the name
45:36of the first Jinnah class frigate.
45:38So, this is a very good capability
45:40which can have a good export potential
45:42because we have the legal rights
45:44to make it for the first time.
45:46The second ship,
45:48Hunain,
45:50is for maritime security operations.
45:52All the operations I have mentioned,
45:54one of them is this type of ship,
45:56Yarmouk,
45:58on 9th May, it has done evacuations
46:00in the sea,
46:02there was a fishing boat on which
46:04there was a fire or a disaster,
46:06it was retrieved from there.
46:08So, this ship,
46:10other than operations,
46:12other than war operations,
46:14it is very well suited.
46:16We have made it in collaboration
46:18with the Netherlands.
46:20Two ships have come,
46:22this is the third one,
46:24the fourth one will come next year.
46:26The special quality of these ships
46:28is that they are conventional,
46:30as we have also said that
46:32we have to cover the smallness.
46:34So, we take more work than one thing.
46:36So, it will do all this work.
46:38Along with this,
46:40indigenous missiles have been installed on it,
46:42more weapons are being installed.
46:44So, when there will be a war,
46:46God willing, it will pitch in as well
46:48as the rest.
46:50So, I will just tell you
46:52about these ships without quoting figures.
46:54In its design,
46:56this Hunain type,
46:58the Navy has done a very good job.
47:00Its cost, as an average,
47:02if you understand it like this,
47:04approximately 60% cost saving
47:06has been done by us.
47:08So, if we get a ship of this mobility
47:10for Rs 100 outside,
47:12we will get it for Rs 33.
47:14Sir, thank you very much for your time.
47:16I am really grateful.
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47:30www.OSHO.com
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47:34of OSHO International Foundation

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