We talk to a Black Country taxi driver and a member of the PHDA (Private Hire Drivers Alliance). We learn that abuse and sexual assault from both men and women is a problem and reporting it is often met with no action leaving them feeling vulnerable and open to attack.
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00:00Yeah, Daniel Warren with Express and Style. We're in the home of Minhaj, who is the chairperson
00:05of the Private Hire Drivers Alliance. Yeah, so just explain a bit about the organisation
00:10if you can.
00:11Hi, thanks for coming to my place today. And you know, you guys doing a great work to make
00:18awareness of the issues that the private hire drivers go through every day. So my name is
00:23Minhaj, I've just been introduced and I'm the chairperson of this Private Hire Drivers
00:29Alliance. This is a group, it's made out of just drivers, private hire drivers, because
00:35this is an industry that has been neglected for decades. It's simply because this industry
00:42is not regulated. So for example, the black caps or the hat knickers, which are regulated
00:46by the council, so all black cap drivers are regulated. But at the same time, the private
00:52hire drivers, they do the same work, taking customers safely home, A to B. But this industry
00:58is not regulated. As a result of it, a lot of exploitation happens. Exploitation mostly
01:03comes from these giant operators like Uber and Bolt, because they are able to do whatever
01:08they want in terms of price. I mean, over the last 20 years, the prices of maintaining
01:13a car, the cost of living, everything on inflation, but our prices with the drivers from 20 years
01:20ago were earning more for a certain fare than it is today. That tells you the level
01:25of exploitation we're going through. So we're doing a lot, and so this group is all about
01:29justice for their private hire drivers.
01:31Absolutely. It's also about trying to push for safety for private hire drivers as well
01:36when they're on the jobs. So we've been talking about the fact of incidents of threats and
01:44stuff like that, that the drivers might experience while they're on the jobs that we don't necessarily
01:46always hear about. Is there any sort of examples that you can give?
01:50Yeah, I'll keep the anonymity. It's important. But drivers do go through every single day,
01:56and when I say every single day, it's actually every single day that they go through some
02:01sort of safety issues. They may feel nervous, that is the most common part of being unsafe
02:08at work. So riders might just argue about the fare. Sometimes we get someone using a
02:14fake account. So someone is not even actually the account holder because they're able to
02:18hack people's account in Uber, and they are able to book a ride. As a result, that is
02:24a safety issue because the driver is picking up a customer who thinks it's got a rating
02:28of five stars. So their assumption is that customer is a good customer, it's got a five
02:33star rating. But what the driver is not aware of, that customer is actually not the customer
02:37who is booking, his account has been hacked. So we might be picking up someone who is a
02:42danger to the public, including us as a public driver. And Uber is not doing enough to provide
02:50solutions to this issue. They can do it, but they don't do it. They are only doing what
02:54benefits them, which is their profitability, their standpoint and concerns. And so there
02:59are lots of issues, I mean, issues with, as I said, drivers might feel nervous. Assault
03:05at work is a very common thing, which is not something that is made enough publicity of
03:12because drivers' issues are not publicised. And also sexual assault, which is to many
03:19is a surprise because you never hear a taxi driver, a male taxi driver is sexually assaulted
03:25at work, but that happens all the time. We have many different members of our group who
03:33comes forward, obviously we're going to keep their confidentiality, but they come forward
03:36with evidence that they have been sexually abused and they report it to the Uber councils
03:42and the police. And I can sadly say that nothing is usually done. Police, when you report such
03:52crime to police that a driver is, I'll give real examples in a minute, a driver put into
03:58a situation where he was fearing for his safety and where he was fearing that he is seriously
04:04at risk of getting sexually assaulted or abused. And the police would just say, okay, we'll
04:08give you a long name back, make sure you report it to your councils and Uber. And that's the
04:14response the driver get. And this is where the double standard comes from. Because imagine
04:18if this was a customer, whether raising an issue against a driver or anybody else inside
04:23a taxi, if there's a sexual abuse and assault happens to a rider, whether female or male
04:28doesn't matter, you are expecting a police to arrive within minutes. You're expecting
04:33the driver's account is getting suspended. If the driver is involved in that, immediately
04:38by the councils and by the Uber, Uber will call the police on behalf of the customer.
04:42There's lots done, but our problem with that is that we advocate for safety for drivers
04:49and customers because they're all public. Drivers also is a key section of the public.
04:53So when it comes to public, the safety and regulation should be equal. And that is what
04:58we're not saying.
04:59Yeah. I know it might be hard to talk about. Is there any sort of specific examples that
05:04you know of where drivers have been made to feel threatened on the job or like you said,
05:09with sexual assault, when you're on the job that you can talk about? Obviously, anonymity
05:12is a very big thing when it comes down to that.
05:14Yeah. Thank you for that. Basically, let me give you an example from the riot time. So
05:19let's say one of the physical assault issues. One of our driver, he's a member of a PhD
05:25group. He picked up a customer, I don't remember exactly where, in Birmingham. And within minutes
05:30the customer, sitting in the back seat, pulled out a big machete. And the lucky thing is
05:39the driver himself was a confident driver. He was able to handle himself. He got hold
05:43of the knife and got rid of the rider and called the police immediately. And luckily
05:48there was a police car just a block behind him or something in the traffic light. And
05:52then he was able to get out and shout and police was able to apprehend him. And eventually
05:58the person was taken to court and he was found guilty of wanting to hurt the driver. Yeah.
06:05That was one incident which just happened in the riot time. Other times where, well,
06:12you probably already aware of two incidents where a driver got killed on the line of duty
06:15in Wolverhampton about a year and a half ago, I think. Yeah. And the only reason he was
06:21asking for the money that he took the customer to, he was asking for the fare and the rider
06:25doesn't want to pay. Minimum fare, four pounds something. The driver got, I mean, he's lost
06:31his life and he lost his entire family. He's devastated. And they lost their family member,
06:36dad, uncle, yeah, you know, father. And just because the person was asking for his money.
06:42And the sad thing is after that, as drivers, we weren't even informed of the incident and
06:47nobody did anything extra to, you know, put any extra protection in place or even awareness
06:54in place. Right. Those two are physical evidence of physically assaulted drivers. Also what
07:00happened in Sunday Hall where another driver got killed by stabbing. Again, it's due to
07:03the pay issue. And then if you want to hit the other big major issue, the driver goes
07:11through almost regular basis, but it's never been talked about, never spoken about, not
07:17whether from the driver themselves or from the authorities or from the media is because
07:23they are, these are issues, stay silent. And I think that's what you guys want to make
07:27aware of that, you know, you want to raise the silence issues. And I can only applaud
07:32you for that. So one of our driver was, he took a passenger from the Ulba 100 day station
07:39and he was driving them down to somewhere in Penn, WV3 area. And those two passenger,
07:46two male passenger and the driver was himself a male driver. So he dropped one passenger
07:52at one location on the last drop. The passenger asked the driver, can I touch your, the male
07:59part? Can I touch your penis? And the driver for a second thought it must be some sort
08:05of joke and he thought that's not a good joke, bad joke. Then he saw the real intent. The
08:09passenger sitting on the passenger side next to the driver was kind of moving his hand
08:15towards the driver. And then he immediately was like, what's happening? Can I please touch
08:20your penis? And obviously you can feel the, you know, the state of mind that driver was
08:28going through at the time. So he immediately contacted the police and police can hear the
08:32conversation without telling the passenger that I'm calling the police because the passenger
08:36was much bigger in physical shape and all that stuff. And the driver was devastated.
08:41He was like frightened, you know, as far as you can imagine. And the thing is the passenger
08:48was somehow the driver able to got rid of the passenger. Yeah. And then immediately
08:54the driver found a safe space, plus somewhere down the road. Yeah. And called and said,
08:59please, why are you going to do about it? And, and, um, that puts the driver was only
09:04told that we are busy. I'm just, we give you a long number and, and raise this issue with
09:10Uber, raise this issue with, um, the council. The driver did raise the issue with Uber.
09:16Uber usually raise the issue on behalf of the drivers to the council if the driver
09:22isn't being reported. But when a, when a driver report an issue against a customer and this
09:27customer is actually can be traced because they booked through the Uber platform. So
09:31it's not like a random driver, a passenger called the Visu or the GoCars because anyone
09:37who can pick up the telephone and book a, give a false name and book. It's not one
09:40of those. It's a ride share app. Uber passengers are verified and Uber did absolutely nothing.
09:46They said, okay, call police. The police saying go to Uber, Uber saying go to police. And
09:51then in between there's a council, they do, they go police or go Uber. That was one incident.
09:57Another incident when a customer was picked up by a, again, a male customer picked up
10:02by a male driver in Dallaston, in yeah, Dallaston, Westbury area. And he was going to go to
10:07a Bahampton. And as soon as he pick up the passenger, the passenger goes to the driver,
10:12um, can I make an alternative method of payment? And then the driver was confused. Like this
10:18is booked on Uber. So Uber usually prepaid. So you don't need to worry about an alternative
10:22method of payment. At that time, Uber did not include, introduce the so-called cash
10:25payment that they're currently introduced. And which brings his own safety issues, which
10:30we'll talk about later. But this is, I've been talking about three, four years back.
10:35So the driver goes, let me pay you. Let me make, cancel this trip. Yeah. And I'll pay
10:39you an alternative method. And the driver goes, can you explain what do you mean? The
10:42passenger goes, I'll give you a bridge up. Obviously at the time that the driver was
10:49brave enough just to say get out of my car. Yeah. And, and immediately, uh, he, it was
10:56a call this app. He turned around, went to a different location, called the police, called
11:01Uber, same response. Give you a wrong number. Uber called police. They, they both kind of,
11:08um, they like go to each other and then nothing is evident. This, the, this is a two issues.
11:13This happens. I can give you another five different examples of similar sexual assault
11:17happens to drivers on regular occasions or regular cases to private head drivers. It's
11:23not been talked about. It's not been highlighted simply because once the driver reports such
11:28issues, nothing is done and the drivers feels, okay, we don't have such protection because
11:32this must be something we have to leave with. We have to get on with because, um, this is
11:37why private head of this alliance is here. We are making a one is like, look, you guys
11:42need to raise these issues and we will fight for you. We will take this higher when this
11:46is what we are raising with MPs as well, that, you know, they need to be more, it should
11:50be done about the driver safety, especially to do with this, this sexual harassment that
11:55happens to private head drivers all the time. And it's nothing is being done. And it's simply
12:00because the authorities or the people suite, um, you know, the power to do something about
12:06it and not doing about it. And they're discouraging drivers to come forward.
12:09So do you feel like it's sort of being pushed under the rug? Um, let me say push on the
12:14rug, but I must say, you know, push aside and I must forgot about, um, by the different
12:19organisations that are trying to, that, that, that apparently they're trying to help obviously
12:22police council. Well, I would go as far as I would say the word double standard because
12:27the same organisation, as I said, would do a lot more to, if this was a case with a passenger,
12:33it doesn't matter whether the female, if this was a passenger in a taxi, private vehicle,
12:39whether the incident relates, involved a driver or not, doesn't matter. If there's an incident,
12:44an issue inside a taxi and it's to do with some sort of, um, harassment, there's metasexual,
12:50any sort of harassment, this will automatically immediately take action. But when it's a driver
12:57is almost, you are, you are made to be silent because you know that nothing will be done.
13:04So I do believe, and I strongly agree that this is put under the rug because, and that's
13:10how the drivers feels, that's how the drivers feel because they all experienced such issues
13:15and nothing is usually done against it. It's absolutely shocking though. Um, one of the,
13:19cause we've been talking to a few taxi drivers around both, um, both council ran taxi drivers
13:25and also Uber drivers. I spoke to about four or five of them and they all agree that there's
13:29sort of, there's certain places where they're just a bit scared to go down to certain areas,
13:33uh, like certain streets. Um, I think we talked previously and there's like a, there are some
13:37streets that you, that you, that you know of. Is there like specific areas within that,
13:41that the drivers of the Alliance talk about that where it's just a bit scary to go to,
13:46you go down there and you know something might happen, you're automatically put on edge?
13:50Like, um, it would be unfair to me to mention a name of a town yet because I think that's not
13:55right. But there are areas in black country, you know, Badhampton, even in Birmingham,
14:01where recently due to the riot in Chelmsleywood, which was, it's a different situation because
14:07that was to do with, with, um, a certain type of drivers have stopped and you know, damaged.
14:13Apart from that, there are locations that drivers do not go in the nighttime, those night drivers.
14:19I have personally stopped working in the nighttime and it's one of the main reason is the safety
14:23issues. We are, we, what I used to do as to go to certain areas. I'll use my example.
14:29I used to go to certain areas and in certain locations where if it's a cold, it's like I
14:33wouldn't even go or I reverse into it because I have this feeling from the customer I had with me
14:39that, that something is not right. And I think I was speaking to one of you guys the other day
14:44on the phone that, you know, once, uh, I took a job and I was, I only worked with the go cars
14:50eight days and that was enough because in that eight days I had, and I was, I said that every
14:56single, not every single day, but every single shift that I went to work with, there are issues
15:01that made me feel nervous where a customer doesn't want to pay, disagree with their route and, and
15:08safety issue. So once I picked up a customer, again, I work in Urbana, so I'm going to use
15:13most of the Urbana examples. So I picked up a customer from Urbana and I was taking him down
15:18somewhere down to Bushbury. And as soon as I picked him up, this guy had a loud speaker in his hand,
15:24one of those Bluetooth speaker. And he's playing stuff that made me feel very nervous. He's playing
15:29stuff about, um, how to kill people and what's the benefit of killing people and what's the
15:35disadvantage of living in this world and stuff like that. And I was listening, it's very loud,
15:39this one is very clearly spoken. And it's one of those words that it's not spoken like someone
15:45reading, it's someone speaking with intent, you know, and he's listening to that. And then
15:50my stop was at the very end. I quickly checked on the map, I zoomed out the map, like, okay,
15:53since it's a cul-de-sac where I'm dropping and say one of the dark place, I was thinking like,
15:57how am I going to drop him there? And how am I going to, uh, what am I going to do if this is,
16:00because he's that, the actual, uh, what he's listening to is about committing a crime tonight.
16:05It's actually about that. And I was thinking, am I the victim? Because you, I do like to watch this,
16:11um, crime series movies. I've got this hobby of watching. And this instantly took me to that sort
16:16of, say, you're looking at things. I'm always thinking like, oh, everything, also something
16:20crossing my mind. And, uh, immediately I turned my, and live sharing with my friends, uh, location
16:27sharing with them. And, um, now there are things the operator is not doing enough that can be
16:33talked about later because they can do more to, for the health, safety for the road. They don't
16:37do it, but we are anyway. Um, so as soon as I took the customer to the last, um, the street,
16:44and it was a cul-de-sac into a park so that you can drive into the park. And I said, mate,
16:50I need to drop you here. He said, why? Like, well, I don't feel confident going in there. And,
16:54and, and then, uh, before I finished talking about it, he started turning around and then
17:01somehow we got off the car. And I was feeling like, okay, I was feeling like I got a new life
17:05because that's how much afraid I was at that moment. I was thinking this might be the end for
17:09me because, and I immediately called Uber to raise this issue. I didn't call police. I raised,
17:14I called Uber and we said, okay, we'll look into it. And that was it. That was it. These
17:19are a few examples, but there are many locations drivers don't even go. And some drivers stop
17:23working at nighttime altogether, including Birmingham, where too many crimes happens
17:28and they don't feel safe because at a certain time in the night, say 10 o'clock, there is a
17:34trigger where drivers have to drive safer because you go through roads where these drivers speeding,
17:40like they're doing a race and, and, you know, especially the smaller area, A45. And, um,
17:47this is another reason, this so-called drug-infused drivers hit the street, the carnikers,
17:52they also hit the street and you are driving in between. I've been involved in three accidents.
17:58None of them are my fault, but all the three accidents were with drivers. They are either
18:03jacking a car or going through a red light and speeding. It's shocking that obviously
18:13so many drivers, like so many proper hire car drivers feel like that when they go to work,
18:18you shouldn't have to feel like that when you go on, when you, when you start the day's work,
18:21um, just to, just to finish up for now, what do you think, what do you think needs to be done?
18:27Well, the, the most important thing, the, the, the people's with power that, that lead that,
18:36control this industry. So you're talking about the council, the authority, which is police,
18:42and the operators, they must make the drivers feels that this driver should come forward.
18:49And this drivers must be made to feel that it's okay to report issues. And it's,
18:55they must be made to feel that their issue issues will not be just neglected, neglected
19:00with their mere phrase, like go to police and police say, go to Uber. That is what's putting
19:05the drivers in the mindset, okay, their issues are not looked after. They are, the issues are
19:12not valued in a way it's kind of make them feel they are a, a second class citizen, because they
19:20know the same drivers know that if the same issues were raised from a different group,
19:25that will be looked, we looked after and it will be dealt with. Whenever, as soon as it's a private
19:30hair drivers, no one ever does anything about it. So it's the, those three stakeholders,
19:35the councils, the authorities, and the operators, especially Bolton Uber, because they could have
19:42most of the drivers is and works for them. All those three must come together with some plans
19:49and platforms, plans to protect the drivers better in the situations and platforms so that, you know,
19:56drivers are made to feel that, you know, they should, they, they, their issues will be dealt
20:00with. They, the drivers should be made to feel confident to, you know, raise these issues.
20:05Absolutely. And that's what the alliances come by. Yeah, absolutely.
20:09No, perfect. Thank you for talking to us. No problem. Thank you so much.