• 3 months ago
Phone calls, testimonials and interviews reveal new details about the case of convicted murderer Steven Avery.

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Transcript
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01:10Kayla Avery is Candy and Earl Avery's biological daughter,
01:19Marie's half-sister.
01:21In 2004, Kayla tells Candy, her mother,
01:25about some inappropriate touching.
01:28Stephen tried to touch her chest or something along those lines.
01:33Stephen one time pushed Kayla up against the wall
01:39and I guess he was touching her breast
01:43and trying to give her a kiss
01:45and Kayla got upset with him about it
01:48and I told him that that is not allowed,
01:51that that is his niece
01:53and if I ever hear about it again, that I will be turning him in.
02:01But that was before, I do believe that was before the Marie incident.
02:07And they want me to go up and testify to,
02:10tell them what Uncle Stephen had done all to me.
02:13Yeah.
02:15They want me to do that too.
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03:33I am definitely not a person that anyone would describe
03:37as trigger-friendly when it comes to blankets,
03:40believing all women when they make allegations.
03:43Definitely not something that my name would be associated with.
03:46But what I will say is that when it comes to Stephen Avery,
03:49what I am looking at is concrete evidence
03:51that he has an established pattern of behavior.
03:54And when it comes to this particular scenario,
03:56we are talking about a minor.
04:01Do me a favor, say and spell your name, please.
04:04Earl Avery.
04:07E-A-R-L-A-V-E-R-Y.
04:15I didn't have a very good childhood.
04:18I was burned when I was seven years old.
04:22Then I was in the hospital.
04:24Then I went back to school, and then the kids picked on me
04:27because I had scars all over the place.
04:34Yes.
04:36Yeah, I kind of dropped out of school
04:38because my dad wasn't feeling good,
04:40and he was working two jobs, and I've been there ever since.
04:43I'm the youngest.
04:45Then it goes to Barbara, my sister.
04:48Then it goes Steve, and then it goes Chuck is the oldest.
04:52I don't know their ages.
04:54I don't know.
04:56All I know is they're older than me.
04:59I was married to Earl for 22 years.
05:03There's my beautiful wife, hanging clothes.
05:09We met when I think I was like 17.
05:13We were together for about eight months,
05:16and then he asked if I wanted to get married,
05:19and then we had 2 kids,
05:22and he adopted my oldest, Marie,
05:25after being married for a year.
05:30The Avery family are all together.
05:33They're like one group.
05:35They have their own way,
05:37and their ways are set to the way they want it to be.
05:41They did what they wanted to do,
05:44and a lot of times it was like behind doors.
05:57When Stephen was exonerated,
06:00Stephen and Marie just started hanging out together.
06:03This was before he met Jodi,
06:05and the way Stephen described it was very innocent.
06:08It seemed like he was just being a good uncle.
06:11So you can just kind of imagine
06:12what the dynamics of that relationship would look like.
06:14A 17-year-old young girl with a 43-year-old man.
06:17What do you think you're looking at?
06:27They went up north a couple times,
06:29what I didn't think was really a big deal.
06:32Well, then my youngest daughter, Brittany,
06:36come down with some pictures of Marie,
06:39and there were pictures of Stephen
06:41pouring alcohol down her throat
06:43and writing on her chest, Stephen.
07:10I know I've seen one or two of them,
07:14with her laying there with her sport bra or whatever on
07:18and a magic marker all over her.
07:20Some of the pictures were, her arms were pinned behind her head,
07:25and I asked her about it, and she says,
07:28we're just horsing around.
07:30I said, Marie, come on, this is not horsing around.
07:39I've been fishing with him a lot.
07:45When he got out, he thought he was bulletproof.
07:47Nobody could touch him, nobody could do anything.
07:50So he could get away with this, he could get away with that.
07:53He always said that, you know.
07:55I'm going to do what I want now.
07:57I had enough people tell me what to do.
07:59He could do anything he wanted to do.
08:01They gave him power,
08:03and it's not good for an aviary to have power.
08:08I ain't got to listen to nobody.
08:11I listened to motherfuckers for over 18 years.
08:13I ain't got to listen no more.
08:16I don't give a fuck about anything.
08:18I come first.
08:20He got to the point that he had it in his head
08:23that he was untouchable.
08:25He always talked about his money.
08:27He'd always promise everybody.
08:29Everybody he'd promise, oh, I'm going to build you a house,
08:31I'm going to give you money, you do this, you do that.
08:35But at one time, he told me to help him fix his car, you know.
08:40He said that later on, when he gets his money,
08:43that he was going to buy me a car.
08:46Look at Brendan, how many times he told my girls
08:49to be quiet when he would go see Marie, wherever.
08:53Yeah.
08:54Look at the time that he showed up at Stocksville.
08:56Yeah.
08:57Telling Brittany, oh, you don't say nothing,
08:59I'll buy you a four-wheeler or whatever.
09:01Yeah.
09:03There was one time me and my sisters went to Fox Hills,
09:08and we were there swimming.
09:11Turned around, Stephen came walking through.
09:14I'm like, well, what are you doing here?
09:17And he wouldn't really respond.
09:19He's like, but you can't tell your parents that I came here.
09:22I'm like, okay, why would my parents care?
09:25But I didn't know that there was anything going on.
09:28It was very hide-everything at that time.
09:33In 2004, he started dating Jody
09:36and ends up moving in with her.
09:49You know, it was very much portrayed
09:52as this lovey-dovey relationship,
09:54and it very well may have been at times,
09:56but also I think there was some rockiness to that relationship
09:59that wasn't portrayed in the film.
10:22Jody hears more and more about Marie,
10:24and there's definitely some tension in between Jody and Stephen.
10:48He said it was over, but she wouldn't leave him alone.
10:53She just got right in his web and got addicted.
10:56I mean, she was young, you know, and he was...
11:00To her, he was famous,
11:02and she probably wanted a part of that.
11:05He promised her a lot of things, fame and fortune, put it that way.
11:10Stephen told Marie that they could have a relationship
11:14because she was not born in the family.
11:23When we found out, and then we told her,
11:27and she got all mad at us, you know,
11:30because she was obsessed with Stephen.
11:33So it was hard to talk to her.
11:36Stephen made Marie feel special.
11:38I think that's probably the simplest way to put it.
11:40He promised her things. He took her to special places.
11:43She's probably looking at him as someone who can give her guidance,
11:46plus there's the added benefit that he's a celebrity, right?
11:49He's a hometown celebrity. He was falsely accused of a crime.
11:53There's no way the power dynamics in that relationship were even.
11:57Fall of 2004, Calumet spoke to the family.
12:02Marie really wasn't admitting that he had ever done anything inappropriate.
12:07They knew there was possibly something to it,
12:09but she wouldn't actually admit it until January 27th of 2006.
12:15A story popped up about the Brown County D.A.
12:19reviewing a sexual assault allegation against Stephen Avery.
12:24As part of the ongoing Halbach investigation,
12:27some new information allowed this particular investigation
12:31to get to the point where it may be ripe for review and potential charges.
12:37He said, look, we got this referral.
12:39Apparently the victim wasn't cooperating last year, but now she is.
12:44CBS 5's Anjanette Levy joins us with more on this allegation, Anjanette.
12:48Well, Shelly, authorities aren't really saying much about it at this point
12:51because it's simply an allegation. No criminal charges have been filed.
12:55What we do know is in August of 2004, authorities in Manitowoc County
12:59received a sexual assault complaint against Stephen Avery.
13:02Now, due to that $36 million lawsuit Avery has pending against the county,
13:07the investigation was turned over to Calumet County to avoid any conflict of interest.
13:12You know, I was in there typing up a story for 10 o'clock, getting ready to voice it,
13:16and I get paged over the intercom that Stephen Avery's on the phone.
13:20You know, get in here.
13:43Well, she even asked, why would they bring that up now instead of when it happened?
13:50You know, how come they're bringing it up again with Marie?
13:55Avery denies having any sexual contact with this female,
13:58but he did admit to physically touching her.
14:01So you wrestled around with her?
14:03Yeah.
14:04And I said, do you always roughhouse with your female family members?
14:10And he said yes, so.
14:18Eventually there was just enough chatter from multiple sources
14:21about this inappropriate relationship between Stephen and Marie,
14:24so investigator Wendy Baldwin interviewed Marie to hear her side of the story
14:27to see if there was any veracity in these claims.
14:31Was it last year or the year before?
14:39And in that conversation, Marie did admit that Stephen
14:44had forced her to have sex with him against her will.
14:51Did you know about Stephen and Marie having sex?
14:55Well, I heard that they were doing stuff.
14:58What do you hear that from?
15:02From her.
15:05Marie said I raped her.
15:07You're kidding.
15:08No.
15:09Her statement. I raped her over by Barbara's house.
15:25She said, stop talking about this guy.
15:29I was like, I don't want to go in the boy's room.
15:32I don't know, boy's thing.
15:40I don't know, he would push me down on his bed and he'd help my arms out.
15:44And did he push you down on the bed?
15:46I don't know.
15:47Yeah.
15:51She said I forced her on the bed.
15:54About that, of course.
15:56Who?
15:59What were you telling him?
16:01I told him to stop because he doesn't belong in this
16:04and he was just in prison for that and I didn't do it.
16:08So why would he try to do something?
16:10Did that make him more of a man?
16:12Sort of. He just laughed.
16:14I was like, it's not funny.
16:18I kept on telling him no and he was just...
16:20When I was trying to get up the hallway, he would spread my legs with his elbows.
16:27Can you please describe what happened?
16:29First, he would put his hands on my pants.
16:34Like, touching them down.
16:36I'm like, dropped my arms over his hands, open underneath it.
16:40And he just...
16:43I don't know.
16:44He just went back out.
16:50I don't know what he did.
16:53I don't know.
16:59It's extremely difficult to listen to.
17:01Just hearing her say something as innocent as,
17:04boys stink, and then she goes on to describe this
17:08really uncomfortable, horrible violation that took place.
17:13I don't know anybody that could listen to that.
17:15Especially knowing that that's a minor and not feel horrible.
17:20So, I'm guilty, huh?
17:22Who?
17:23Me.
17:24What?
17:25Raping your daughter.
17:26When did she say that?
17:27She told the cops that.
17:28At an interview.
17:29Oh, she did?
17:30Yes, she did.
17:31Did he penetrate you?
17:34What's that mean?
17:36Did he have sexual intercourse with you?
17:39That's what I heard.
17:40And I told him to get off me.
17:42Now he's hurting me really bad.
17:46Did he stop?
17:47No.
17:49He's back around the corner, I think.
17:51So, why don't you do something with it then?
17:53I did.
17:54What?
17:55I stopped it.
17:56Well, you should have stopped it a long time ago then.
17:58Now, it's too far now.
18:00I'm probably going to charge him now.
18:02He sounds anxious.
18:04It's almost as if he knows that there's something that could be discovered.
18:09He's not pressing charges.
18:12She still said it. I raped her.
18:14She don't want nothing done.
18:16She wants a drug.
18:17She wants a drug.
18:18She wants a drug.
18:20It almost sounds like Earl is trying to reassure Stephen that Marie isn't going to say anything.
18:26And she told everybody I didn't do nothing.
18:30That's why I need them letters.
18:33What?
18:34What does she got a crush on me?
18:35She loves me.
18:37That's why I kept them.
18:40I told him that if I didn't do something that he wanted me to do, that he should not do something.
18:47That scared me.
18:49He's pretty scared of me now.
18:52All I know is that she's scared of you.
18:54But she don't want nothing to do with you.
18:56Right.
18:57He told me he would kill himself by running into a car on I-43.
19:05I-43.
19:06He told me that he would take me with him so that we could die together.
19:11Now what the hell would she be scared of me for?
19:14Huh?
19:15I don't know.
19:16Yeah.
19:17Your goddamn wife.
19:18What if my wife doesn't do it? I don't think my wife doesn't do it.
19:21She always talks bad about me.
19:23Why keep on picking on me?
19:24Who is?
19:25Everybody.
19:27Stephen really does have a classic victim mentality.
19:31Even when he is being the aggressor, he always points to what's being done wrong to him.
19:36In this particular scenario, he's upset because Candy is speaking badly about him
19:41and he believes that she's influencing Marie to be afraid of him.
19:44It's never anything that he's done.
19:46It's never anything that he's said.
19:48It's always everybody else.
20:02You don't believe me, do you?
20:04I know I do.
20:06At the beginning, she'd run after him all the time.
20:08Yeah.
20:09I was beating her all over.
20:12But before I was leaving because I didn't, because I was around him so much.
20:17And then...
20:18How many times did you push that gun on me?
20:20Just once.
20:21And that's when I stayed, I stayed away.
20:25Despite all of the horrible testimony and information about what Stephen did to Marie,
20:30people somehow still managed to see a world in which, of course, he was the victim.
20:38I find that interesting.
20:40That the timing is so perfect that Marie is coming forth and they're investigating
20:45if Stephen is being charged with statutory rape or not.
20:49So for Truthers, instead of the most logical explanation that Marie was actually raped,
20:54it's more believable to imply that Investigator Baldwin coerced Marie to make up stuff about Stephen.
21:04It turns out that it was more of a consensual relationship.
21:09So he is 42, 43 years old at the time, allegedly having sex or raping a 17-year-old.
21:17And with the online community, it's all Marie recanted, Marie lied.
21:23I've seen excuses for it.
21:25I've seen people say, well, you know, in XX country, you don't have to be 18 to give consent.
21:31It doesn't matter what age she was, if it isn't consensual.
21:49You went with her to see the DA?
21:51Mm-hmm.
21:52Nothing, nothing happened.
21:56Unless he would get out or something, they said to her that they would prosecute him for that or whatever.
22:01Stephen Avery was now facing the trial for the Teresa Halbach murder.
22:06If he got convicted for that, he was going to be in prison for a long time anyway, so there was no need to pursue it.
22:12I think it's just sitting on the side yet.
22:14So if he would ever get out of prison, then they have the rights to bring it back in.
22:20I don't know for sure what's going on with that, so it's just sitting there.
22:26I ain't, I'll say right out, I ain't no angel either.
22:30I had problems and everything, but I took care of them.
22:34My dad, he did have a hard life, he did.
22:39And I understand with the things that he did back then.
22:44He was a heavy drinker, but he changed all that.
22:48How did you deal with your problems?
22:51Just faced them. Face to face, faced them, yes.
22:56And to get through it with counseling and everything else.
23:01I had three years, six years of counseling.
23:04But I got through it. I mean, I was pretty rough.
23:08But my kids, they stuck by me and helped me out.
23:12I don't understand how, but after the divorce,
23:16he did turn into a lot better dad.
23:20I don't know, he's more there, he's more caring, he's more everything.
23:28So now, you know, we've gotten to this point,
23:30and you said now the controlling, the emotional and physical abuse starts.
23:35Yeah, it's always over Marie.
23:46Jodi, I can get you out of this.
23:48She's like, well, I don't want to do that because it'll hurt me.
23:51Every time she would drink, my uncle would get mad and hit her and stuff.
23:56What Jodi, what I have witnessed is, there was one time up north,
24:01he was beating her up outside of the camper.
24:06They don't know nothing.
24:07They knew about you hitting me.
24:10They knew about it.
24:12I never told them that.
24:14Well, if you never told them that, I'd never hit you.
24:16It's got to come from you, it can't come from somebody else.
24:20Jodi was drinking and she wasn't supposed to be drinking, you know,
24:23around the fire up north.
24:25And here comes Steve over, walking over.
24:28Grabs her by the back of the hair and drags her.
24:32Drags her all the way around the damn corner on the road.
24:43Like, there's no turning him back the other way,
24:46telling him that he can't do it because he's in his face.
24:49Telling him he can do whatever he wants because he's not in that car anymore.
24:53That he doesn't need to listen to anyone anymore.
24:58We're all kind of drunk and we're kind of scared of him, you know.
25:02So we didn't bother it.
25:05But yeah, that was something else.
25:08What'd you say?
25:10I said, I don't remember that happening.
25:13Phone calls between Steven and Jodi, they're very telling.
25:44But no, you don't think.
25:47First and foremost, he tells her to lie about where the bruises came from.
25:51And we can clearly hear that he's manipulating her by saying things like,
25:54you don't really care about me.
25:57That's why I don't think you care for me.
26:00Yeah, well, I do.
26:01You do.
26:03Then why don't you deny everything?
26:06Huh?
26:08Hey.
26:09Hey.
26:10I don't know what I'm doing.
26:13I thought I was doing good.
26:15All you have to do is deny everything.
26:18There's no reason why you can't say you were drunk, you were drinking,
26:21you fell down, got the bruises.
26:24I am a good liar. I can't pick up lies like that.
26:27Well.
26:29Think of me instead of this Jew.
26:33And over and over again we're just seeing this pattern of the way that he treats women.
26:37He is always domineering.
26:40Just like to be in charge. He always does.
26:44He still does to this day.
26:47Sometimes Joey would say that he didn't want to do what he wanted to do to her.
26:57So he was pissed off at her.
27:05Okay. What else?
27:08And sometimes he would, like, try to grab her and touch her and that.
27:23When they were just watching TV and that.
27:25What else?
27:29What else?
27:34Sometimes he would hit her and that.
27:38Did he tell you that?
27:45Well, sometimes I've seen it.
27:49I know I'm jumping around here a little.
27:51Did he put limits on who you could see, talk to?
27:54Yes, he did.
27:56I don't want her around you or her.
27:58Or Candy or anybody in there.
28:00Gonna let her do what she wants to do.
28:03Gonna do what I let her do.
28:04No, she ain't gonna do.
28:06She ain't gonna do it. You ain't her boss.
28:09You ain't got no control over her.
28:12I got control.
28:14You couldn't see anybody?
28:16I couldn't see anybody. I couldn't talk to my mom.
28:20Did he ever threaten your parents?
28:22He said if I ever left him, he'd burn their house down with them in it.
28:26That's why I never left him.
28:29Well, let's be careful of something.
28:31What would Jody do if he got a death penalty?
28:36I don't know. I don't think she really gave a shit.
28:39Yeah.
28:40At least she ain't getting beaten by him no more.
28:42Yeah.
28:44They're only from one room together.
28:46She's just saying he's innocent so she don't have her fucking hunt down.
28:51Yeah.
28:52Cause he's told her many, many times that no matter if I'm in jail or whatever,
28:57I'll hunt you down and I'll sit and kill you.
28:59Yeah.
29:01Why do you think they don't want you to talk to us?
29:03Cause I can hurt Stephen.
29:06By telling the truth?
29:07Yeah.
29:08I don't know how I can rely for him no more. I can't do it.
29:12It's too hard the way it was.
29:15Well, I'm glad to see that you've turned the corner on him.
29:17I wanted to a long time ago.
29:19I'm glad to see that you've turned the corner on him.
29:21I wanted to a long time ago but...
29:25I'm scared.
29:30Stephen Avery's ex-fiancé Jody Stakowsky calls him a monster.
29:34So in Making a Murderer, viewers saw Jody as this very loving and supportive fiancé to Stephen.
29:40Then less than a month after Making a Murderer premiered, Jody gave an interview to HLM.
29:45And people sort of were shocked because it was a completely different story.
29:49And I think most of them thought, wait, what's actually going on here?
29:52How did she flip? How did she do this complete 180?
29:55She's completely changing her story of who Stephen Avery was
29:59and whether or not she thinks he actually committed the crime.
30:02Do you believe Stephen Avery killed Teresa Halbach?
30:05Yes, I do.
30:06Why?
30:07Because he threatened to kill me and my family and a friend of mine.
30:14During the Halbach investigation, one of Jody's friends told investigators
30:17that Stephen would generally answer the phone whenever she called.
30:20On one of those occasions, Stephen told a friend that if she talked to Jody anymore,
30:24he would find her and he would kill her.
30:26Another question that HLM asked Jody was why didn't she just leave Stephen if it was so bad,
30:31which is just such a pointedly ridiculous question.
30:35I mean, anyone who asks that sort of a question is just not at all familiar with a situation like that.
30:40It's never that easy.
30:41It's never easy for a victim to come forward or to leave
30:45when their entire support system has been cut off.
30:48If you don't have people standing behind you to help you,
30:53there's no way you're going to get out of that family. None.
30:57And Jody didn't have nobody.
31:00So it's just the fear of where you're going to go, how you're going to hide from them.
31:11What you talking about?
31:12Yeah, what am I talking about?
31:14I ain't giving no black eye.
31:15No.
31:16No.
31:17You're still on a doorknob.
31:18No.
31:19Yeah, why did she call the cops on you?
31:21Because you had your fucking hands around her throat.
31:25Huh?
31:27We knew that he had been accused of choking her.
31:32Tell us, to the best of your recollection, what the time that you went unconscious.
31:37He was pissed because I ended up going to the races when I told him I wasn't going to.
31:42And he just freaked out and started beating me and choking me,
31:47and that's when I called the cops.
31:49And then he choked me again, and that's when I passed out.
31:52And I woke up, he was dragging me by my sweatshirt out the back door.
32:00When she went on HLN, I guarantee she did not expect the amount of vitriol
32:06she would receive as a result of making a murder.
32:09It should be noted that there were no physical evidence.
32:14There were no marks around her neck which would have supported the choking claim.
32:19Hey, the cops checked her out.
32:22There was no marks.
32:23Yet what was in the statement?
32:25The statement don't deny she was drunk.
32:28Kiss my ass if you want to sit there and try to say that Stephen Avery is a fucking abuser.
32:35So it's true, Jodi didn't have any bruises on her neck immediately after the incident,
32:39and Stephen Avery supporters used that as evidence that, well, he didn't choke her, obviously.
32:44What they didn't consider was that bruises take a while to show up.
32:47It's obviously not instant.
32:49The police didn't find any marks on her neck.
32:52Well, actually, bruising takes a number of days to come up.
32:55So I train police officers all the time.
32:57If somebody is alleging that they've been strangled or choked, that they will not see evidence.
33:02Experts say that the bruising takes a while to show up.
33:06If I punch you in the arm, it's not like your arm is going to immediately turn black and blue.
33:11A distinct odor of intoxicants was detected on her breath.
33:18Her coping mechanism, absolutely, to blot things out.
33:21People judge her on that.
33:23Jodi essentially got the same treatment as Sandra Morris by the public.
33:28She was dismissed because she drank.
33:30Because people didn't believe that two things could be true at once.
33:34That these individuals could have been drinking, but also may have been victims of abuse.
33:42You fucking lying twat.
33:47To say that Jodi's interview on HLN wasn't very well received would be an understatement.
33:54Social media immediately attacked her, calling her a liar, calling her a drunk.
34:00Drunken gold digger.
34:02Yes, she was.
34:03God, you get the ding, ding, ding of the day.
34:06I think at this point, the docu-series was successful at creating a hive mindset.
34:11It didn't matter what Jodi said on HLN.
34:14They were never going to believe her.
34:16They were always going to defend Steven.
34:19They kept telling me, I have nothing to be guilty about.
34:23It's not your fault.
34:26But if I would have been there, I still feel she'd be alive.
34:34Everybody got along with her.
34:36She just, she had that kind of personality that you're just drawn to.
34:43Like, hey, she's fun.
34:45She was very sweet.
34:50She was talented.
34:51Like, Teresa had a way to make screaming kids smile.
34:57One holiday, I did ask her to do pictures of my puppies with my six-month-old daughter,
35:02and I'm like, good luck.
35:04An hour later, she had 24 pictures taken, and it was the first one that ended up turning out.
35:09It was a gift. She had a gift.
35:13I asked her if she wanted to be either my photographer or a bridesmaid for my wedding,
35:18and she, of course, begged if she could be the photographer.
35:21And I said, absolutely.
35:23Teresa was my first cousin.
35:25Our dads are brothers.
35:26We had mutual friends.
35:28Some of my cousins from the other side were friends with her.
35:31So it was all just like a big family.
35:36Saturday before Halloween, which had been the 29th,
35:41she was on a costume party bus,
35:45and we met her at a bar beforehand.
35:48She was dressed as a cowgirl.
35:50She walked in, and she's like, this is my outfit.
35:53I got boots and I got a hat.
35:55That was the last time I talked to her.
36:01Laughing, enjoying herself, having fun, working hard.
36:07She was also trying to get her business or her photography built up a little bit more.
36:13And that's when she started going for that auto trader.
36:18When I decided to leave, she came to my residence,
36:22and I gave her my camera, my fax machine, all the forms I had, any equipment I had.
36:27And she talked about how much she loved photography.
36:30She was very enthusiastic and upbeat,
36:33and I remember thinking she was a pretty young girl, and it was nice to meet her.
36:43Did you supervise a young woman by the name of Teresa Haubach?
36:46Yes. She was responsible for Green Bay.
36:49And then mid-year 2005, she had taken over the Manitowoc Sheboygan area,
36:59one day a week on Mondays for us.
37:02Teresa's first appointment was at the salvage yard on June 20th of 2005.
37:07That's the first time that her and Stephen crossed paths.
37:10A couple months go by, and Jodi Stokowski went to jail
37:14to serve her sentence for an OUI she had received the prior year.
37:19She went to jail on the 15th. That was a Monday.
37:22And Teresa only works on Mondays.
37:24You know, it's interesting. Teresa Haubach had only visited the Avery Ridge Salvage Yard once.
37:29Suddenly, Stephen starts ramping up these appointments,
37:32calling her back over and over again to take pictures of different vehicles.
37:36And so, I don't know, I just found that to be quite interesting.
37:39Image number 12, taken on August 22nd.
37:45The very next Monday, that was the second appointment that they had together.
37:51The third appointment was a week later, the following Monday.
37:55The fourth appointment was September 19th.
37:58That appointment was actually a little bit different.
38:02Stephen Avery set it up under a different account for Tom Yanda,
38:07our Yanda's husband at the time, but gave his landline number.
38:11When Teresa arrived that day, she first took pictures of the vehicle that Tom Yanda had for sale.
38:17But then Stephen Avery asked her if she would take another picture for one of his vehicles.
38:25Is that a true and accurate depiction of image number 15 that's in front of you?
38:30Yes.
38:31And finally, image number 16, taken on October 10th, 2005 at Stephen Avery's residence.
38:39The day before that, Stephen and his sister Barb ended up purchasing some leg irons and handcuffs
38:48and some furry covers from just an adult store.
38:52These are not industrial strings, they're not what the cops use.
38:55Leg irons and handcuffs seized from his trailer, he says, were for harmless sexual play with his fiancee.
39:26Did you ever, like, try them on or anything?
39:37So you, they, I mean, they had been used and stuff.
39:41Well, no, not really.
39:50Yeah, I thought it was really weird when he said that his daughter had seen the handcuffs
39:55because it just seemed like that's not something you should show your daughter.
39:58October 10th, Stephen asked Teresa to come for a hustle shot. He calls her directly.
40:04You did know that Mr. Avery had Teresa's direct phone number, right?
40:11No, I did not.
40:13Were you aware that he had done a privately arranged shoot with her on October 10th?
40:25I was, those were called hustle shots and I didn't have any information about those, so I wouldn't have known.
40:33We were at the bar one night with a couple friends and Teresa told me that she had gone to Stephen Avery's house
40:38and photographed cars and she goes, you know, the guy from TV, the one that was wrongly convicted.
40:46I do remember her mentioning Steve.
40:48She went out and took some pictures of a guy's car and she got, she was creeped out, he was creepy.
40:54And I said, what do you mean? She goes, well, he answered the door wearing a towel.
40:58And I was like, Teresa?
41:01She had stated to me that he had come out in a towel.
41:06He meaning who?
41:07Stephen Avery.
41:09And she made out a statement down at work because I had a towel on.
41:15I just said, really? And then she said, yeah, and she laughed and just said kind of like, ew, you know.
41:21The girl from Auto Trader said it, but they would not allow it into evidence because it was hearsay.
41:27So what? I had a towel on.
41:29She knew the pool was there. I told her I was in the pool.
41:34How many times was she down here?
41:37Quite a few times.
41:40Since I was in jail? We didn't have the pool that long.
41:44Well, she was there quite a few times.
41:47Every time I put a vehicle in.
41:48I know.
41:50What do you think, if she was uncomfortable or whatever, she would have brought somebody with her,
41:54or told somebody else?
41:57She was a little freaked out and she kind of stepped back and he looked at her and he said,
42:03don't worry, someday you'll get this.
42:05And we all kind of looked at her like, what do you, like, what do you mean that's what he said?
42:10She had explained to a friend that he had made some kind of reference to her,
42:15to a display on his wall that had some phone numbers and some pictures of other women
42:20and indicated that she too would someday be on that wall as if he was laying claim to her.
42:25And this caused her enough discomfort that she mentioned it to her friends.
42:32She goes, I don't think I want to go back there.
42:35And I do remember us all telling her then, don't go back there.
42:40I don't think she would have felt threatened by it.
42:43Uncomfortable, yes, but threatened, no.
42:46I was never interviewed by police.
42:48It was just, it was bar talk.
42:50It was friends talking.
42:53It was hearsay.
42:54It was, I had no proof that she said it.
42:57I had no proof that that really did happen.
43:01I'm just telling you this is what my friend told me one night in a bar.
43:07Teresa's gut told her that there was something off about Stephen Avery and she told this to a friend.
43:14I so wish that she had followed her gut instinct.
43:19In hindsight, I think about it a lot.
43:22A lot.
43:24That maybe we should have done a little more or encouraged her a little more not to go.
43:32Do I think we could have stopped her?
43:34No.
43:36It was her job.
43:38She was loyal, trustworthy, and she was going to go.
43:43She was going to go.
43:51In 85, I hung around with Steve almost every day.
43:54I almost lived with him.
43:56Helped him put engines in Ford Torinos.
44:01We'd go burn the tires off of it and blow it up and pull it out and put another one in.
44:07When he got out in 03 there or whatever year it was, I helped him out and we hung around.
44:13You know, even when we went to the auction after this happened, it's like he didn't have, he wasn't a different person.
44:20I mean, he wasn't acting weird then.
44:28Not really, no.
44:38No.
44:51Coming up on Convicting a Murderer.
44:53What would be the upside for this man?
44:55I mean, he just got out of prison.
44:57He has this new lease on life.
44:59What would be the motive for something like this?
45:01We're talking about somebody with unexplainable, impulsive behavior.
45:05A pattern of violence and aggression.
45:08There were a lot of coincidences on the day that Teresa Halbach was killed.
45:12And Making a Murderer either completely omitted them or only presented half of the story.
45:18Stephen Avery leaves work and doesn't tell his brothers.
45:21He'd never used his sister's phone number to book an appointment before.
45:25Stephen Avery makes two phone calls to Teresa's phone.
45:29Teresa's phone.
45:30Why is he blocking his caller ID?
45:32I don't think Teresa liked Stephen the way Stephen wanted her to like him.
45:38You had a murderer because you turned your ass down.
46:29CONVICTING A MURDERER