Captain Sandy Yawn, Founder and CEO, Captain Sandy, Inc Interviewer: Diane Brady, Executive Editorial Director, Fortune; Co-chair, Fortune COO Summit
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00:00We're glad to have you and I want to start because one of the things there
00:04When I first met you you talk a lot about how you choose your team
00:09You don't get to choose the team. Do you on your TV show?
00:12Don't you just sort of didn't they come from central casting and then you're just you get this collection of misfits
00:19You're like, there you go. Yes, I was serious. How many people think I hire the crew?
00:24That's good. Cuz I don't know Lila does yes, cuz we're in journalism. Yes
00:29So I don't hire the crew I don't choose the boat I don't choose the location
00:34Here's a fun fact. I
00:37Meet the crew for the first time. I meet the boat for the first time. I don't know the boat
00:42The crew don't know anything the very next day. We leave on charter like we know everything. I
00:48Mean, there are people who can't even do laundry on that boat
00:51I know, you know literally they look at the laundry machine like it's an art installation
00:56So give me a sense as to when you're in this situation. What have you learned?
01:00How are you different now than from season one and then we'll get into a bit of your background
01:05But I think it's just fascinating to think about how you lead laundry is a great story
01:09It always starts in the laundry somewhere has to start, you know, someone has to start somewhere
01:14But when you think about it, I heard a story
01:16I don't know if you guys remember the girl Laura from my the Italian season. We were in Portofino
01:22She actually washed a Gucci
01:25$6,000 dress and messed it up and threw it overboard because she messed as one does
01:30She thought that would just deal with their laundry problems
01:34as far as
01:35What was the next part of that? No, I'd want to know how you've changed
01:39Are you a different captain today than you were? Yeah, he's season one
01:43absolutely, think about having a camera in your office and in your home and then you watch it after the edit because they only
01:52Edit the good stuff. So you watch your behavior your interactions how you speak what you look like
01:58How you walk out of your cabin your habits like I I look at all of that how I
02:05Address people how I talk to the crew
02:08And through the years the show along with myself the producers. We all evolved together
02:15I've changed they've changed and we've learned to work together in this this cesspool of
02:21Crazy because it's insane when you look at it. There's 32 people in a production room. That's you know, not very big
02:28they have one bathroom and
02:30They all sit together and watch monitors and listen to us all day long all day long
02:36Do you think you're a better captain now? I have Israel's of his experience. I mean
02:41disconcerting to have a camera in your face and a
02:45Inherited crew. I think it's helped me improve how I deal with people
02:49so I will watch the season and think why didn't I pause a little longer do a little more investigation before I
02:57Made a decision or why didn't I fire that person sooner?
03:01It's those, you know when I look back. I'm like, why didn't I fire that chef? I
03:06Think that's always something you talk to leaders. They always say I wish I'd fired that person sooner or that to sit that tough decision
03:13I wish I'd made it earlier
03:14I want to ask you a little bit about how you got into this in the first place because your
03:18Backstory is interesting. What made you want to be the captain of a yacht? Tell us but you're I didn't have a clue
03:26I was on that merry-go-round of drugs and alcohol. I was kicked out of 11th grade. I didn't go to college
03:31I went to maritime school because I started washing someone's boat to pay all my fines that I had from drinking and driving and
03:37That was before mothers against drunk driving that tells you how old I am. So basically I
03:44Had a guy goes. Wow, you're doing a great job. I got sober
03:47I changed my life and
03:50It was the doors just open one door kept opening. I kept doing the work
03:54I kept my head in the game and all and all I was a boat washer and
03:58Then he sent me to sea school and then he sent me to engineering school
04:02And then I was like, wow, I can learn I can retain and I always say to my sister
04:07You know, I can read and apply so I don't need you know
04:10Your family are the ones that really try to think they know best
04:14So basically I followed that path John gave me John Flynn. He was in the finance world. He taught me about finance
04:21he made me go to his company and I learned all about spreadsheets and comparisons and so I
04:29Advanced in my career. I worked for a founder of a bank. I
04:32Worked for a lot of finance people and I still have a lot of finance people here follow the money
04:38We call it money. I had to learn to stay, you know pad the budget because you know
04:42You always pad it a little bit. I learned that from my boss's wife
04:45She's like pad the budget Sandy
04:47So I did and I used all the money all the time so I would get more money
04:52So I learned that, you know school of thought
04:54Boats cost money. They are not something that you can make money with but you can't offset cost
05:00I work when I work for the founder of the bank. It was right after 2008
05:04We're in the Monaco boat show and that crash happened. I'll never forget the reaction of the richest people on the planet
05:11They were worried and that's never happened in the history of me working in the yachting
05:17Worried that it would happen again. No worried
05:20Worried about the financial crowd because it was 2008 and I'll never forget it
05:24And he said I have to sell my boat
05:26I can't be seen owning a boat laying off 3,000 employees and and then while we worked out a deal
05:32And then I made him the moat I made him so much money that year because we reduced our price we cut fuel prices and
05:40We actually paid for the operating of cost of the vessel the worst year
05:46Financially. No when you speak you do speak a lot about leadership. And so tell me a little more about
05:52We talked about I think you are actually an emblem terrific
05:56Leadership on the show even if you get the you get what you get and you you do get upset
06:01But um, but give me some sense of of water. How do you hire?
06:07Differently because you are almost hiring for potential by nature of the fact that there's there's a lot of unknowns
06:13When you're bringing somebody on to a boat, so give me some senses what you've learned
06:17Well before below deck I hired for character
06:20so I would go to the boss and say I it was your panel that talks about pay for the talent and
06:26I said I need money for you pay peanuts to get monkeys
06:30I don't know is that a lot with my allowed to say that but that's
06:33So, okay fine. So basically that's how it is and they just want to play around
06:37you pay the real money you get the you know, the talent and the character because you can
06:42character you can't
06:44Train someone to have good character. They don't hire for that you hire by doing your background checks
06:52talking to other captains like
06:54Finding out their past and that's what I did and I hired the best and we had the money and we did
07:00I always ask for money for team-building
07:02Which was whitewater rafting sailing together haven't bought basically and yeah
07:07so other than that with below deck when I get these people I think they just want to be on TV they
07:14Realize that this is actually a career that television isn't and that's when I invest in them and to me
07:20It's like if I can change someone's life during one season, then I've done my job
07:25Is there one you're most proud of in terms of whose life you've changed or who you've really turned around
07:31Malia so Malia. I don't know if you guys remember her
07:35but she was a dive instructor in Hawaii and she showed real leadership skills and
07:42She worked really hard and I just said one day. Hey, do you ever think about being a captain?
07:47She's like, nope. I just want to be a dive instructor and work in Hawaii the next boy
07:51She was on anchor watch that night and the next morning she goes
07:53Did you see what I put in the logbook and I'm like no she looked up her courses and she went to sea school and now
07:58She has her master's she's one for her master mariner, which is a bigger license than mine
08:03Yeah, I think the mentoring, you know one thing I have to think when I saw that case, you know
08:08Mike Lynch the British tech entrepreneur and everybody blames the captain because the ship went down to one ship in the harbor
08:15How do you feel about that? Captain Sandy did it was that what happened to me?
08:20Thankfully no lives. What's it? It's like this kind of world. Yeah, so for them
08:24Here's the facts about that story. They would they were hit by a water spout. It took the mast off seven people died
08:31Yeah, yeah, but the crew were actually on deck because the storm was coming every crew member was on deck
08:38Securing the vessel for the storm. They did a daisy chain where you can't hold hands
08:44They did exactly what they were trained for when that boat capsized and they went in
08:49Looking for people trying to rescue them and they did they rescued a few but it's not their fault
08:55The weather they you can you can't predict there's a water spout there. You cannot see a water spout on a radar
09:01It's just a massive
09:03You know weather and you can't tell so that happened on and I've been there before I've been blamed for a fire in the Red
09:09Sea and I remember I was a five-year case
09:12I was in court defending my license for five years and it was 13
09:17Lawyers and basically I just looked at the one lawyer Mac Miller
09:22That was that guy if you ever hear of Mac Miller go the other way because he well
09:27So it was a fire in the Red Sea and it was basically like nobody. It was just
09:32Blame me that I took a boat that wasn't safe to see
09:35So basically that was the clients equipment failed. This is what I said to him your clients equipment failed
09:40You're trying to blame me for the fire when it was your clients fault
09:45And I see you should be thanking me for no lives lost the boat was saved and
09:50We were rescued by a warship by the way a warship
09:53That's very during an election right after President Bush was reelected off the coast of Yemen
09:59Which was the you know, which was in a civil war at the time and towed into Yemen
10:04And we still were safe
10:05So we're gonna take questions from the audience if you have any for I keep calling you captain Sandy
10:11Do people call you cap Sandy? I know but was captain my captain
10:14But you know, I one of the things that I'm fascinated with is you people talk about celebrity CEOs
10:21You are a clearly a celebrity
10:23Captain, you know, I know how do you think about yourself as a brand now like like, you know
10:28You've you're still a leader, but you're also like
10:31You're in door. Didn't you endorse cookies? Did you endorse some cookies?
10:37I get a lot of I'm a kid
10:39I love cookies and I have a great manager
10:42So anything that has a hoi or something like that, that's he's like ships ahoy and I'm like, I'm in
10:48That's good sunscreen or something
10:50I did an LTM D
10:51But the reality is is I I am a child at heart and I love what I do
10:56And I love investing in people and that's really where my return is and as far as a brand
11:01I don't think of myself as a celebrity. I'm Sandy
11:05My profession is being a maritime captain and I happen to be filmed, you know
11:09Every time I get asked back to every year, it's great because it's a great platform
11:15When I walk through I realized the airport my life is different now
11:19I can't imagine being you know, like a Nicole Kidman or someone like that
11:23It's hard to navigate at times
11:25But I have to say that I quite enjoy people because they're happy to see me and that's really how can you be mean?
11:32That's one of you've been a role model
11:34I think about you know
11:35You and your wife and just go I get I think a lot of people look up to you in the way
11:39You've led your personal life and your story of overcoming
11:43You know the alcohol your background, you know, that must be very empowering. You've done one book. You've got another book
11:50Give a kid's book. I thought you just showed me this
11:53Ocean Rangers captain Sandy in the Ocean Rangers with an AI character. So there you go
11:57That's that's very fitting for our conference. If anybody wants to find out more. Yeah, let us know. Do you have a question?
12:04For Sandy's anybody want to ask anything? No question off-limits. There you go Mercer
12:14Talked about sorry you talked about your
12:16Biggest turnaround or biggest success story being Malia. How about the worst one?
12:20How about the one that you thought had the most potential and just couldn't quite help him get there
12:25Well, it's not just Malia. I want to say also Joao. He's a captain. He's running his own boat the worst one. They're fired
12:32I mean, was it the person who threw the Gucci thing overboard? No, no, no, not that was a good person
12:39Yeah, no, whatever the person did the laundry and then oh, yeah
12:42No, she I heard that story wasn't on my okay, you know you deal with these personalities
12:48You see that people are struggling some you know
12:51you don't know what their background is and I always come from a place of
12:54Empathy and compassion because I really want to invest in them because they're they could save my life one day
12:59That is not my motivation
13:01But I always think when I look at my crew who I want my lifeboat
13:04Because the reality is is we're responsible for lives and I always say to below deck the casting people
13:10Do you know that the producers in that room that these people are responsible to save your life?
13:16So one season I was so angry
13:18Because of how they casted that I took that boat and I stuffed it in every way possible
13:23I made sure that boat went from side to side
13:26and I called all the crew on the bridge and I knew that camera was watching me because I wanted to teach them a lesson and
13:32I said how many people are on board?
13:34They could not answer that question and then I said how many life rafts do that we have and where are they located?
13:40They could not answer that question. And so those producers
13:44Started rethinking how they cast that shifted it for me. So the worst crew I've ever had
13:51Would be the people I would say that girl Laura
13:55I don't know if you remember her, but she was vile and then when I did what was bad about her
14:01Was she just she was she was just
14:06Crazy, I don't know how to explain it, but she was violent and then I had another one
14:11Well, you know Mila, you know, she was pretty bad that chef that cooked the nachos
14:17But you know as far as personality
14:19That was Laura
14:22And yeah, go ahead
14:31How have you evolved as a leader and
14:34As you film the show and then how would you characterize your leadership philosophy?
14:39You've given us a little bit of how many people watch Colin Powell their leadership speech
14:43Is that not the best and I always thought this when I work for a captain
14:48He didn't do a thing to help me and I thought I will never be like that
14:52I will treat people how I want to be treated
14:55Because that's how I was raised and the second part is I will not ask them to do something that I won't do myself
15:01So I lead by example by doing the work. I will get in there and wash the dishes or whatever it takes. I
15:08Give them three trip chances three strike rule because everyone deserves a chance, right?
15:14When the people know that you invest in them and that you're gonna take the time and train them properly and
15:20Spend time with them and not just go. Here's your job description. This is what I expect from you
15:24They now are invested and they do not want to disappoint you what I love about Colin Powell speeches
15:31Leadership isn't about leading people. It's about creating an environment where people want to follow that's leadership
15:38It's great you had a question
15:41Whoops, no, sorry. Hi there. Hi there
15:44so we're a crowd of
15:46operators and dealing with labor and having to start up and make labor as
15:51Productive as possible and as fast as possible. I'm super curious
15:55You said you have not met the boat
15:57You've not met the people and you're on the sea and moving the next day
16:01Can you talk us through that a bit maybe behind the scenes?
16:04The good news is is I I actually know how to drive a boat
16:08I do have a lot of training and there are people behind the scenes that
16:13Have experience there's always a first officer and two engineers. So with the
16:18Well, they have to be on board. It's it's a law
16:23It is about investing
16:25Hiring the right talent for me
16:27Taking on the below deck team and that's also the producers because you're navigating a lot
16:33I do get angry this season. I got angry and I said, I'm not saying that again. What made you most angry?
16:39The repetitiveness right and so and the ask why can't we leave the dock? Well, it's too rough
16:45There's an insurance policy that dictates so for me. It's
16:49Just remembering and taking a breath and going. Okay, what is the safest thing to do?
16:55And how do I motivate the team for me?
16:57I just shared that I motivate them by investing in them and helping and then I make it look fun
17:03Because for me if I'm not enjoying my job, it's it's not a good energy. I enjoy what I do
17:09I enjoy people. I enjoy driving a boat
17:12I I'm a good logistics person and I'm a great we are problem solvers
17:17You have to be a problem solver if you go to sea or fly an airplane like that
17:21I'm sure in your jobs as well
17:23But now you add that layer of lives on board you really have to problem solve because you're always thinking ahead
17:28So that's what I do and I always train them to think ahead
17:31So I call the crew on the bridge and I'm like this is happening right now
17:36What are we going to do and I give them scenarios to make decisions because it's about critical decision-making in those moments
17:41And it's a financial part last season
17:45Greece
17:47There was an anchor that was left on a seabed
17:50That cost sixty thousand euros to get that anchor hauled up and taken back
17:54I said to the producer no one consulted me if I called my boss and said, you know what?
17:59I left the anchor. I hired someone to go pick it up for us. You think I'd still have a job
18:04Definitely not. Do you know the producer that decided that doesn't have a job?
18:08This season when we film because and I said ask me I will say I'm going to go get my anchor
18:14So it's a moments like that. So leadership is financial for sure. That is always number one
18:19We want to say safety is right
18:20So you want to make sure that you can stay within your budget not to compare you to a real housewife of anything
18:27But but you know, these are people in this room where we're kind of well not journalists, but you know
18:32You want to reduce drama?
18:34Really, you know good TV is about increasing the drama
18:38and so do you ever have people say, you know, Sandy can you just up it a notch and get angry and you know,
18:43there's a there's a certain incentive to
18:46To just create some friction and how do you deal with that?
18:51Imagine all of you here today living together and working together
18:56Pure joy every day every morning you wake up you see the same faces
19:01You have to go to work
19:03You have to do a job and you're not gonna want to do that job. And meanwhile, we're at sea and we're doing this
19:09Okay, so add that in right and it's annoying. There's a lot of drunken client passengers
19:15You go out you get intoxicated and then you start hooking up and and then you break up and then they're dating the other one
19:21You're all living in the same room in the same boat
19:25That's the scenario so we don't have to create the drama. It is all right
19:30I'm sure we have other questions. I know we have to sum up but but there's a lot of conversations about Gen Z
19:35You know, we kind of stereotype this generation whether it's Millennials Gen Z. What do you think?
19:41Are you finding any do you think if there's you know, are we are you exactly what you think? Hmm?
19:47It's exactly what you think. What do you what is it?
19:49It is they don't want to work and they want to get paid this and they want this and they want this
19:55but on a boat
19:57There's really nowhere else to go. So they just have to do it
20:01It's an age thing. Like I mean, we were all at 20 actually not with 23 24, I guess that's not the case
20:08Any advice on managing Gen Z? Well, here's what I noticed because I I'm with someone that had a teenager
20:14Who's now in college? Thank God
20:17I watched those teenage years and you know what I said, you don't discipline
20:21She doesn't respect you because you don't carry through your discipline. I was afraid of my parents
20:28Do I think that's the way to parent? No, but it works
20:32But when you take the phone keep the phone
20:35For the week that you said you're gonna take it for don't give the phone back within 48 hours or 24
20:40And that's where I saw the breakdown was so now when they're on board and they don't do their job
20:45I just say I'm gonna take it out of their pay. I can't do that, but they don't know that so
20:50I
20:51Love that. Well, thank you. I don't think any other questions, but I want to thank you
20:56And I also want to ask you do you have any other?
20:58Thoughts in terms of both leadership, but just sort of what's on your mind right now
21:03I mean you've gone through nine seasons. You've got all these projects. You've written a book give another book in you
21:09Do you think do okay? Yes, absolutely to be determined. Yes with Sam, of course
21:14Sam is my former colleague. Who's ghostwriter? That's how we met. Yeah best writer ever
21:26Nobody should have me write a book so I get to page 30. I'm like we're done. Yeah, it's not a good book
21:32So good to know, you know, I'm a 30 pager. That's it. But
21:36so for me how I would sum this up is
21:39Self leadership because I talk a lot about that in my book
21:42You got to take care of your soul your spirit because when you walk in that room
21:47Energy matters how you walk out it matters and if you're in an office and your doors closed open it up
21:53Create that environment where people feel like you're approachable because that really matters and they will
22:00Do their best for you when they see it's like that and I think
22:05We need more of that in the world
22:08For people to have that growth factor, right because there's a growth factor in the serum that we were talking about with whether it's skin
22:16On your organ or whether it's in your environment. You have to have it and that is
22:21having being
22:23Approachable and having that kindness in you to have that conversation and take that time because we're all
22:30Time is our currency and when you invest your currency in those people they will your returns will be there
22:38I think the other lesson is be cool
22:40I think I always feel cool and I'm just standing next to you and you're like the the you know
22:44The Elvis of sailing we give a terrific show. I think you're a terrific leader
22:47I know I've seen in person just how warm a human being you are. So thank you for joining us
22:52Braving the weather and I look forward to season 9. So please join me in thanking captain Sandy on
23:00You