In a never-before seen interaction, join THR India editor Anupama Chopra as she sits down with five visionary directors from across India for an insightful roundtable discussion in the first episode of THR India's roundtable. This star-studded panel features the incomparable Vetri Maaran and Pa. Ranjith from Tamil cinema, game-changers Karan Johar and Zoya Akhtar from Hindi cinema, and the multifaceted Mahesh Narayanan from Malayalam cinema.
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00:00Welcome everyone. I am so thrilled to be sitting here with some of my favorite storytellers,
00:07with some of the best storytellers in this country.
00:12In the last few months, I've heard a lot of chatter about, at least in Hindi cinema,
00:18gloom and doom about the theatrical business.
00:22It's a sunset industry, streaming funds have dried up, no big films are being launched or made.
00:29I was speaking to Sailesh Kapoor at OMAX, he said that irrespective of the bigger titles
00:35that are now going to release in the next few months, there's going to be a 10-20% drop for Hindi box office
00:41between 2023 and 2024. Does any of this impact on the stories that you guys are working on now?
00:50Do you pay attention to it?
00:52First, I think I need to clarify one thing here. It's not the theatrical box office that is failing,
01:00it is the inflation created by the OTT platforms that is failing now.
01:07See, OTT barged in, they said during the COVID times, for one actor's film, one Rajinikanth's film,
01:15one Vijay's film, we'll give 120 crores, 100 crores, you buy, we will make it.
01:20Then the budgets became bigger, the salaries became bigger.
01:23And within a few months, they realized that it is not sustainable for them, for the OTT platforms.
01:31Now, they are saying, okay, we can't give that much.
01:35But the production, I mean, the filmmakers have gotten used to making bigger films
01:42and actors have gotten used to taking bigger salaries. What to do now?
01:48And so, the OTT platform now stopped buying small films.
01:52Especially, you know, film festival films, they say very correct words.
01:58We don't want to film festival kind of films and auto films and we're not ready to buy now.
02:05We're only concerned about the big films. Like, I don't know.
02:09What about you guys? Are you seeing...
02:11I'm just hearing everybody and I'm like, it's actually, it's not...
02:15Unfortunately, like, the situation is very divisive.
02:19Like, right now, Hindi cinema, I'm just speaking about Hindi cinema.
02:23And I spoke about Tamil cinema.
02:29And you'll be actually happy to report that whether it's in Malayalam cinema or Tamil cinema,
02:34the audience base is wider for very, very diverse content.
02:40And, you know, there you can have a director that will take newcomers
02:44and there will be a massive opening on the face of the film
02:47and just on the theatrical trailer and the director's repertoire of work.
02:50Hindi cinema is going through a massive situation. We must talk about it.
02:55It's very important that we know that we, in Hindi cinema,
02:58firstly, we have a very polarizing audience.
03:01Our audience through states and within states, through areas of that state.
03:05Like in Bombay, if you just say Bombay, Mumbai is Mumbai, Maharashtra, Saurashtra, Karnataka
03:10is all part of the same terrain, right? We call it the Mumbai territory.
03:14Delhi is Delhi, UP, Punjab, which is also Delhi NCR and goes into Gurgaon.
03:19So, now, what will work in Bombay right up to Juhu may not work from beyond Juhu.
03:24And this has all happened post-pandemic.
03:26Let me tell you, there was a certain film.
03:28That kind of sharp division.
03:29There was a film like Pink and there was Nirja and there was Kapoor and Sons.
03:33And they all worked.
03:34And there was Zindagi Na Milegi Dobara that began this very multiplex,
03:38that did over 90 crores of business.
03:40NBOC, when it started, everyone, all the trade pundits were like,
03:43this film is not going to make any money.
03:45Because it's about three people on a journey of finding themselves.
03:48That, to a commercial audience, seems like it's unheard of.
03:52It did way beyond. It had a cast.
03:54But that kind of film, today, I'm not sure how much money that film will do.
03:58I don't know what Kapoor and Sons did, 72 crores.
04:00Today, it might do 35-40.
04:02Because that base has reduced.
04:04What is the cinema going audience of a certain kind of film has now,
04:08it has shrunk. In Hindi, it is true.
04:10And yet, you are either underperforming or overperforming.
04:14That middle road cinema is completely vanishing,
04:16which is maybe because it's not happening enough.
04:18And they're saying that there used to be film and cricket,
04:20that used to be the two massive sources of entertainment.
04:23Post-pandemic, everybody wants the experience.
04:26Travel has increased. Hospitality has increased.
04:29And people, the average family in India does their math and say,
04:32we'll watch, they used to watch six to eight films a year.
04:34Now, they're watching two.
04:36So, suddenly, if it's a must-go-to film,
04:39and they've seen the film before, like what happened with Street?
04:41Horror comedy is the most popular genre across Hindi cinema.
04:46I can't say the others.
04:48We have like big fans.
04:51Horror comedy is the number one.
04:54Horror comedy is the number one genre.
04:56Now, we have grown to realize this.
04:58Street didn't even realize that it's going to go and become,
05:01it's going to possibly be the, in archived history,
05:04it possibly will be, and it's still collecting, it's touching 500.
05:08It might be the number one collecting Hindi language film.
05:12And it doesn't scream up, and the budget is 100 crores.
05:16You know, it is not crazy.
05:17It's not spent 300, 400.
05:19Look at the, it's a heartland business of that film.
05:22It's crazy, but it's also cities are collecting,
05:24heartland is collecting, it's a rooted film.
05:26So now everybody is like, it's rooted content.
05:29It's not that you can't tell urban stories.
05:31Of course you can.
05:32But then all the actors who are charging what they charge
05:35for the big multiverse film, and they have to look at the way,
05:38and everybody has to come and make a film together and make it happen.
05:42We must tell all kinds of stories.
05:44And Hindi cinema is craving for all kinds of content that must be told.
05:47But the thing is that those movies don't do the numbers,
05:50and they collapse, and then you're not like getting the ability
05:53to make that film because, and no longer that.
05:55We've seen that superstars are no longer a reason for a film to open in Hindi.
05:59Karan, they've got openings of 2 and 3 crores.
06:02I mean, this is Akshay Kumar's film, this is Ajay Devgn's film.
06:05But you and I have been talking about superstar salaries for
06:08I've been on that 12th round table,
06:11talking about how everybody has to look at their remuneration levels,
06:15and they have to address, and I'm saying it for the 55th time.
06:18But when is this going to happen?
06:20But Karan, you just have to stop paying.
06:23You have to stop paying.
06:25Actually, I don't pay anymore.
06:28I've said, thank you very much, I cannot pay you, bye bye.
06:31Are you doing that?
06:32Yes.
06:33You should be.
06:34I am not paying anyone if they are not,
06:36what is your last couple of films?
06:38Correct, what's the opening?
06:39How much have you opened to?
06:40Yeah.
06:41With what right are you asking me for this number?
06:43If you see any film, all of us recently,
06:46every film, I produced a small film called Kill.
06:49I spent the money on that film because that was a high concept
06:51with a rank newcomer at the face of it.
06:53Because I started doing it, I'm like,
06:55I'm not going to, because every star we went to,
06:57because that was a high concept action film,
06:59you could not make Kill in any other way,
07:01because it had to be in that train.
07:03Every star asked me for the same money that the budget was for.
07:06I was like, how can I pay you when the budget is 40 crores,
07:08you're asking for 40 crores.
07:10Are you guaranteeing me that the film will do 120 crores?
07:12There's no guarantee, right?
07:14So finally I took a new boy.
07:16We have to, and I think, like Zoya will tell you,
07:18Zoya has been creating some of the best content films.
07:21I think both Zoya and Farhan,
07:23very importantly, changed the language of films.
07:25Farhan did it in Dil Chahta Hai,
07:27and Zoya went on and did it with her stream of films.
07:30We need to see those films as well.
07:32We need to tell those stories that are about,
07:34like, you know, about diverse subjects
07:36with interesting syntaxes.
07:38I mean, that's the problem.
07:39Now everybody's like, oh, your film is not rooted,
07:41it's not mainstream commercial, it will not do the numbers,
07:43don't make it.
07:44How can you stop making films?
07:46You have to tell all kinds of stories.
07:47Today I met Shakun Batra, who directed Kapoor and Sons.
07:50He's traumatized.
07:51Because he's like, what do I do?
07:53How do I make a film that's going to get, like,
07:55the business at box office?
07:56I'm like, you do you.
07:57You make what you need to, we'll make it work.
07:59What part of filmmaking do you like the most?
08:02And what part do you like the least, Mahesh?
08:06Like, I started as an editor.
08:07Yes.
08:08So you know that.
08:09You've done more than a hundred films.
08:10Yeah, yeah, yeah.
08:1160, 60 plus.
08:12So the thing is, like, I write for my editor, always.
08:15So writing is the toughest part.
08:17So writing is always the toughest part.
08:19So that is where the cinema lies there.
08:22It's the toughest part.
08:23In the writing.
08:24That process is the most…
08:26Like, even if it comes in, like, say for example,
08:29a film like See You Soon was written in two weeks.
08:31But it's not that if it's written in two weeks.
08:33But it's about writing something out,
08:36which is conceptualized in terms of an edit.
08:38And then, like, you know, you're making it like that.
08:41But sometimes, you know, you have to take time into that.
08:44Your mind goes bizarre in that process.
08:48But you like it.
08:49Yeah, I like it.
08:50And what do you like the least?
08:52The least is, like, you know,
08:55you know, when you wait for something.
08:57Like, you know, when you wait.
08:58I mean, like, here we say, wait for green lighting.
09:01You know, in Malayalam, the green lighting happens in three days.
09:04Like, sometimes an actor sits here.
09:06Like, actor will be the producer.
09:08You know, he signed six actors for K3G in one day.
09:11Oh, yeah.
09:12It was super.
09:14That was 20.
09:152000.
09:162000.
09:17I don't think I'll manage to cast six actors today in one.
09:20I may not get to their homes only the way I did.
09:22With the traffic in the city.
09:23I went to all six homes in one day also.
09:25So here, when you wait, when you wait,
09:27the problem what happens is,
09:29like, your story gets expired.
09:31Your film gets expired.
09:32That's the main problem.
09:33Like, you know, you write something
09:35and you start shooting it in three years later
09:39or two and a half years later.
09:40It is expired.
09:41By that time, you have to fetch new ideas.
09:44The entire screenplay is gone.
09:46You have to rewrite it.
09:47So that is the biggest challenge what I'm facing.
09:49Yeah, yeah.
09:50For you, what do you like the most?
09:52When he said writing, I just looked at Zoya
09:54because I know how much she loves writing.
09:56To me, it's the most lonely process.
09:58I can't say I hate it because there's so much gorgeousness
10:01about creating characters, writing narratives, stories.
10:04But it's very daunting.
10:05It's very scary.
10:06I mean, it's very like, because you don't,
10:08you know the days that you're going through those days
10:10that nothing comes out of your head.
10:12And those are such awful, scary days.
10:14And then suddenly when a great scene is written.
10:15So writing to me is daunting.
10:16I can't say I hate any part of filmmaking
10:18because it's in your core, it's in your DNA.
10:20But daunting, yes.
10:22Writing, very traumatic phase for any filmmaker,
10:25specifically me.
10:26What I love the most, I have to say,
10:30not just the execution of filming,
10:32it's the background music process.
10:34Like, I love, love.
10:35How so?
10:36Oh my God, I love it.
10:37I love that process the most.
10:39I just love how you could just like, like a symphony,
10:42like an orchestra, you can elevate a moment.
10:45And you know, good old days when,
10:46when I did Kuch Kuch and Kabhi Khushi, my first two films,
10:49I had the, the massive good fortune
10:52of actually seeing a score
10:54with an absolute large live orchestra.
10:58You know, there used to be chorus.
11:00There was the 40 violinists.
11:02There were flutes.
11:03And there was this massive empire in Andheri
11:05as this huge, where I saw Babludha,
11:07who was like the music arranger.
11:09And there was live orchestra.
11:10And Lata ji, standing there in her console,
11:13singing the alaap for Kabhi Khushi
11:15and the violins along with her.
11:17And there was a flute with Basuri.
11:19You know, the Basuri came,
11:20which was Manori da with his Basuri.
11:23And I was like, to me, that was cinema.
11:26And I don't have that, that privilege anymore of doing that.
11:29But still, when I'm in the background score,
11:31when there is a chorus and there is,
11:33and I'm still, I'm a big believer
11:35in the old school background score.
11:36You should do one film with Ilanaya.
11:40I would love to.
11:41I mean, I'm such a big fan.
11:42And he's such a genius.
11:43But I think that's my favourite part
11:46of the pre or post of a film
11:48is really the score, the background score.
11:50How lovely.
11:51How lovely.
11:52It's also very peaceful to be in music.
11:55It's a very, I love writing.
11:57I have to say, I absolutely love writing
11:59and I love shooting.
12:00I like the energy of a shoot.
12:02When you come out of the writing process,
12:04it's quite quiet at nine to five.
12:06And that's the only nine to five part of my life.
12:08But shooting is got energy.
12:11It's got adrenaline.
12:12I love the alchemy of the actors,
12:14the costumes, the people, camera,
12:16everything together.
12:17I don't like editing.
12:19I see all my mistakes.
12:21It's like sunset.
12:23Waiting is sunrise and editing is sunset.
12:26It's like, I usually have to,
12:28you know, there's all this possibility in writing
12:30and then you're saving in editing.
12:32I don't like that.
12:33And I hate dubbing.
12:35Like, I hate it.
12:37But you really do dub.
12:39Yeah, but you have to.
12:41Some scenes you have to.
12:43I just don't enjoy it.
12:45I don't like it.
12:46For me, it's like,
12:48I like everything about filmmaking.
12:50Editing the most, I would say.
12:53Like, I edit for a year.
12:55For a year?
12:56Yeah, more than a year.
12:57But that's great.
12:58You have to take a look.
12:59He's enjoying.
13:02One thing I don't like about a film is
13:05wrapping up a film.
13:06I don't want to finish a film.
13:10I would like to have a few more months.
13:15Like, one more month extra.
13:16Another ten days of shoot extra.
13:18That's me.
13:19Ranjeet?
13:22I really love when I'm writing, you know,
13:24too personal.
13:25There is no one to enter my space
13:28and I'm just enjoying.
13:30I keep writing, writing, writing.
13:32I explore my overall what I have.
13:35But you have to read the other person.
13:40They'll say, no, you have to edit this.
13:42You have to...
13:43Don't talk like this.
13:45So I hate that.
13:49The art is very personal.
13:51It's kind of conscious.
13:53Whatever we connect with something,
13:56we need to explore to the things.
14:00Sometimes, most of the problems,
14:03who's going to read and what they read,
14:07they're not connected.
14:08I'm trying to find some word
14:10and recollecting, reconnecting.
14:12I'm enjoying.
14:16You cannot give that word.
14:19I don't want to come out of that word.
14:23But the shooting, I hate.
14:26Shooting.
14:27Being a director, it is great.
14:30I love shooting.
14:31I don't like it.
14:32It's true.
14:33Because of that,
14:34lot of person come and like,
14:36you have to be like...
14:37Your world is getting destroyed.
14:39They come and mess up your good thoughts.
14:41If you tell something,
14:43if you give some words
14:45and they'll understand
14:47and they'll try to convey,
14:49it is a big process.
14:50And you have to be,
14:52you have to have a lot of patience
14:54and you just say,
14:55I'm not an angry person also.
14:57I just come and sit
14:59and watch and watch
15:00and I go and re-correction
15:04and I'll say action.
15:06I'm just waiting for my good take.
15:08But I need to be more patient
15:12and sometimes,
15:13a lot of days,
15:15I don't want to direct
15:17and I just get out of the set.
15:20Oh God, I feel you.
15:23In many days,
15:24when you're outdoors
15:25and the weather is bad
15:26and you're rushing
15:27and I'm like,
15:28I don't want to make a movie.
15:30It's challenging me.
15:31The craft is challenging me.
15:33Sometimes,
15:34I couldn't do
15:36in a proper level.
15:38So, I felt bad about myself.
15:40You're doing some worst thing.
15:43You cannot do like that.
15:45It's challenging me,
15:47my thought and my writing.
15:49When I'm going to read something,
15:51what I wrote,
15:52the words are challenging me.
15:54The creative is challenging me.
15:56But as a person,
15:57as a director,
15:58I wanted to ask help
16:02from actors and camera.
16:05That is challenging me.
16:08But I'm trying to connect
16:11with all crafts.
16:13Sometimes,
16:15if I don't like also,
16:17okay, this is good.
16:20Okay, we can show that.
16:22Yeah, absolutely.
16:23In editing,
16:25editing shows me everything.
16:27I'm the worst person in the world.
16:29And after finishing that movie,
16:32it got released in theatres and everywhere.
16:34I don't want to see my movie.
16:35That is my pain.
16:37Same.
16:38Just let go.
16:39If I hear the sound,
16:41I just want to stop immediately.
16:43I don't want to see any visuals.
16:46If it comes,
16:47any visuals,
16:48it's done.
16:49You know that,
16:50Sarpatta Parambarai,
16:52OTT, telecasting,
16:54that day,
16:55I was just sitting and watching.
16:57Sometimes,
16:58I disconnected with that movie.
17:02I didn't like that movie.
17:04I don't know.
17:05I ran away.
17:06I ran away in my room.
17:08People were watching.
17:09I didn't watch.
17:10I love that movie.
17:11I don't know.
17:13All my movies
17:15told me very clearly
17:17it is a bad movie.
17:19I was trying to make a good movie.
17:22This has been so much fun.
17:24Genuinely,
17:25I have had such a great time.
17:27I wish to God we could just go on.
17:29Thank you all.
17:31For me,
17:32the glass is always half full.
17:34I think
17:35the theatrical experience is going nowhere.
17:37We're going to be watching your movies.
17:39I will die in a theatre.
17:41On that happy note,
17:44thank you.
17:46You do you.
17:47Always.