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00:00You
00:30Hey Eric, sorry
00:34It's okay
00:36There's nothing else to do. I know right? It's just terrible. You're locked up in here. But that is what I am here for, right?
00:46You don't smoke do you? No, never. Good
00:51It is a disgusting habit and I will never kick it. I know it. I wish I never started
00:56Yeah, my my dad smoked
01:00Just always disgusted me. Good. Just the smell of it in his mouth. Well, I always try to chew a piece of gum
01:06After. No, it doesn't bother me with you
01:09Okay, good
01:10Don't ever start. Okay
01:25So
01:26Yeah, so
01:29How you doing in here
01:32Not uh, not great
01:34Sure, but you're eating now. Yeah. Yeah, it's more that uh
01:39Ever since they found that letter and Lyle got moved. I've been here in 7,000 by myself now
01:46Kinda, I found a friend who's just made being in here easier. But um on Saturday, he was just gone
01:52Oh, no. Yeah, just I don't know whether they moved him or where he went
01:58I'm sorry. It's just out of nowhere. So I've just been feeling kind of
02:04Lonesome. Yeah
02:07Well, I'm sorry about that
02:11And Eric, I'm sorry about what we have to talk about now, okay, cuz you know, I talked to Lyle and
02:19Lyle's lawyer Jill was there too. And I actually asked Jill if I could just come talk to you alone today
02:23Oh, okay, and she was okay with that
02:27I think I prefer this. Okay good because I talked to Lyle about the things you told. Dr. Vickery. Yeah, and
02:36you know rough stuff with
02:40Lyle but with your dad too and
02:44Objects and the things that Lyle did to you
02:48But also the things he knew that were going on with you and your dad and yeah
02:53How he thought it had stopped and when he found out it hadn't yeah all of that. Yeah, and Lyle told you about
03:01His experience with your dad with the abuse. Yeah. Yes. That's what we
03:08In the days leading up to that night, that's what we talked about kind of for the first time like we were
03:14Comparing notes, I guess you could say but not not in a happy way like it was good to
03:21Finally talk about it to have it be out in the open
03:26Okay, and just to ask just to say it out loud you believe him, yeah
03:34Yeah, I
03:36Know he's telling the truth. Yes. What am I supposed? No, so do I I just I just want to keep underlining that
03:43For all of us is all
03:45That however much you loved this man. He was a monster
03:50and that what he did was real and so
03:52You know, I think that Lyle's point of view is that
03:57However bad he had it and I really do get this feeling from him
04:02He feels you had it worse
04:09Yeah
04:13Yeah, it was much worse
04:15Can you sure I just need you right now if you can to just tell me everything yeah, okay
04:21Can you do that? Yeah, I can. Okay
04:29Wait, where should I start? I know it's awful. Um
04:36Well, I guess I
04:39Would just ask
04:41Do you remember when it started?
04:44Yeah
04:49Well, it kind of seems like it was always happening because
04:52You know, I was always afraid of him your dad or not my dad. I was never afraid of Lyle. I
04:57always felt like Lyle was my
05:00My protector even when he was abusing you. Yeah, he wasn't I
05:07Just mean that
05:10I just mean that
05:12Like my earliest memories are of running away
05:16You know, I was like five or something and I wouldn't get far
05:19I would just get to my aunt's house just a few blocks down and it was like
05:26Well, cuz that's what Lyle said when he found out it was still
05:30He was he was like mad, right?
05:34And he he said, you know
05:36Eric how could you let this happen?
05:38Like do you like it or something because you could just run away and I was like well
05:42Because they always come find me every time I tried they would find me and it just would get worse
05:47So so running away never helped. No, no my mom and and my dad and my whole family
05:53They were like this octopus that you could never escape from because their tentacles would come and grab you
06:00Yeah, something like that
06:06But as far as when it started
06:08Lyle thinks I was six and
06:11That seems right. Well, that's when your father started with him, right? So that makes some sense. Yeah, and I I didn't
06:21What well that's when I had coach Wadlington I was six when I started with him and I
06:28remember it was happening around then or
06:32Well the massages did
06:36Eric what?
06:38It didn't start out bad, you know, yeah, it would just be after it's tennis or after swimming and
06:50Mm-hmm going
06:53Well, I knew that my dad didn't like me
06:57How do you mean just he was always so mean
07:02you know, he loved Lyle, but
07:04He didn't love me and I
07:07Could tell but he would also say it, you know, he'd call me these names and they were just what kind of stuff
07:12you shouldn't say to a kid like
07:17Stupid
07:18faggot, okay
07:19And so then you're always trying to impress him or to not make him mad and my mom would she would do it, too
07:25They would gang up on me
07:27like if I said I was scared of the closet, they'd lock me in the closet until I stopped screaming and
07:33They were laughing so I knew I wasn't gonna die but still it was just like
07:39Why would you do that or
07:41The basement did lock you in the basement. Yeah, cuz I was scared of it. It was to toughen me up and
07:48How long just all afternoon or until I stopped crying and
07:53My mom would do it too, but it was mostly my dad
07:57That's awful. So anyways, what?
08:00When you know your dad thinks you're weak or I don't know too
08:07scared or something like
08:10like not
08:11Tough enough and well, then you start to think well, I guess I'm not tough enough and he's always mad at you
08:19like then the times that he's not
08:23the times when
08:25he takes you upstairs and says
08:27You know, let's take a shower and
08:30he was
08:32Well at first he was
08:34Like he was finally nice
08:36you know like to see that side of him where he was
08:42Tender yeah
08:44Because it was then it was like he could like you could stop being mad when no one else was there
08:49but around everyone else and even when family was over he would just
08:53Call you those names or he would hit you and everyone was
08:57Everyone saw it. But when it was just you and him that's that's when he would
09:06What that's when you tell me that he loved me
09:10When he was abusing you yeah, it wasn't
09:15It it was just the massages at first
09:18Like with oil or he would have his shirt off and I'd just be in my shorts or something and it was
09:25What all the other stuff hadn't started yet and then so it was just like
09:31time
09:33being with my dad where I felt like he cared about me and
09:42It was just me and him
09:44And that was good
09:46like
09:47Those were my favorite memories
09:50Mm-hmm
09:54And then the massages changed
10:00Yes
10:02He would say turn over and he'd do my front him by friend. He'd massage my penis
10:10Okay, and so we'd fondle each other but it's it still wasn't
10:15What I get it it wasn't scary yet what we were doing except I think I didn't want to like I would try not to do
10:23it
10:25Different part
10:27Yeah, because you know, he'd be lying on his back and I'd try to skip that part and he'd say no
10:33you have to do that and
10:36Just then the mouth massages as I got older and like Lyle said with the objects and the toothbrush and how old
10:44I'm definitely
10:45second grade because
10:47the toothbrush
10:48Because I remember the day at school afterwards there was a picture of a toothbrush on the bulletin board or whatever
10:55just about like how you should go to the dentist and
10:57I
10:59Remember thinking that the toothbrush in the picture wouldn't have hurt as much
11:07And so there were four different kinds of
11:11Sex with my dad there was nice which was the
11:17well, the massage just came before but
11:21Then when he started making me use my mouth it was just
11:26It was too big and I yeah, I didn't I didn't like that. Yeah, and I'm doing that to him just seemed really dirty and
11:34When he did it to me that was
11:40But to him that the naked he called him naked mouth massages and doing that to him felt really dirty
11:46yeah, and I didn't like it, but he would say, you know, you you did good and good boy and
11:54it was just
11:56The only time I felt like I had a real
12:00relationship with my dad where I felt that he
12:05did love me and
12:07And
12:09They'd go on for a long time the nice sex sessions
12:13sometimes I
12:14Started to wonder where everybody else was just could they they would go on for so long and in a lot of ways
12:20Even though it felt dirty
12:21it was also like
12:24Like I was the center of the world for once, you know, and it also felt
12:33Nice
12:38Mm-hmm
12:40Go in the objects were to get me ready
12:44well, and I realized that when we finally um
12:47when you talked about yeah, and that he was uh
12:51Preparing our bodies for something bigger and
12:57At first he made me do it to him do
13:02Sex like to penetrate him
13:08He always said he wanted to teach me how to use my
13:11Penis and that felt really dirty. Yeah every time and I didn't like it and
13:20What you know in order to do that you have to be erect
13:27That that's what was so weird about it and that I could ever
13:34What
13:37Or
13:43Orgasm
13:47That was really confusing to me at that age, of course it would be
13:56And then he
13:59Then he started to rape me and that
14:03He'd take a slap from underneath the bed and he put it under the doorknob so that and I would cry and
14:10it hurt and he'd say
14:14You know, why can't you be like Lyle?
14:16Just be a menendez and get used to it
14:19and I just
14:25Remember feeling so
14:28Disappointed because
14:30He was
14:32comparing us again Lyle and me like I
14:36wasn't good enough again and like all of the stuff that he'd said about
14:42loving me like that was
14:44Just gone or like that had never even like happened
14:51How often did this happen the just sex
14:57Like
14:58Two or three times a month from when
15:04Junior I think so 11. Mm-hmm until
15:09Right before right before they died. Yeah, just a few months before was the last time. Yes
15:18Eric
15:20You were raped hundreds of times by your father
15:25Yes
15:29That was just what my life was like
15:33I'm so sorry Eric. It's okay. It's just kind of
15:38You get through it. Yeah, and you just um survive I guess
15:43you live for those times when
15:46It doesn't happen, you know
15:48and you think like
15:50Well, I mean you do get through it. It's like
15:55It's like
15:58Christmas morning, you know, and you think okay. I got through that. I'm not gonna have to
16:03Do that for a while now or maybe because this time it was knees
16:07Maybe next time it'll be nice sex or maybe cuz sorry knees
16:11well, that was another one of the
16:14I
16:15Had different names for things knees was it wasn't my favorite to be when I do the mouth massages to him and he would
16:22What
16:25He would finish I guess in my mouth and I just
16:29Hated the taste of it
16:30that's why I started putting the cinnamon into his coffee and
16:33Putting lemon on my food and stuff the cinnamon was for the to make it taste better
16:38but so if I
16:40Done that or I gotten through that I would think well
16:43Maybe next time he'll do a mouth massage to me or it'll just not be the rough sex
16:48I just I never wanted it to be the rough sex
16:52And what was rough sex like
17:00Just
17:03Just
17:06Hitting and
17:08really
17:10painful
17:11He would get mean and he would punch me and he was really strong
17:18And I couldn't um, I
17:21Don't know why but for some reason I just could never hit him back
17:24and it was like when I was little when I was running away like it just doesn't work you
17:29you can't
17:31Get out of it. Like he won't stop. You just have to do it. You have to just try to
17:36To get get through it
17:39but the um, the rough sex was
17:45Boy
17:48Uh
17:49I'd have to kneel on the headboard like at the end of the bed like the foot of the bed
17:55But like it'd be into my shins. So it'd be stuff to make it hurt
18:01Because you would always say like this is what the Greeks did
18:03This is how they toughen themselves up to make things not hurt
18:06so if it hurt you had to try to get through it, so I'd be inserting objects into my
18:12or like
18:14with my penis like pins or
18:17like he'd cut my leg like I've got a scar on my leg because
18:21he'd be doing this stuff while I'd be doing the mouth massages to him and he'd be uh,
18:25you know just trying to toughen me up, but um
18:30When
18:32when he's tying something around your penis like a rope or like
18:37Like I don't think that's supposed to make someone tough like why does not
18:43wait, that's more kind of like
18:46Torturing someone yes, and I just don't think that's what a father's supposed to
18:53Know it's not like that's not what you do to someone you um
18:58That's what you do to someone you hate, you know, Eric. You did not deserve and he'd call me these like
19:04Sometimes it was what he would say that would somehow hurt even more like like what?
19:09Like I just wanted to say to him like if I'm such a faggot
19:13And why are you asking me to fuck you in the ass, you know, like that's you know, and
19:21What I don't know no, I don't know I don't know
19:29And you're supposed to I mean
19:33Like this is a man who did such amazing stuff, you know, like my dad was an amazing man
19:38I loved him so much and I still love him so much and that's why I'm like
19:42I don't want to be in here for the rest of my life because like
19:46to have that thought like
19:50To have that thought
19:52Laying alone in here in a cell at night all cooped up in here and have that be a thought you're left thinking like that
19:58Like that. I love my dad
20:01like that's
20:04Like it wasn't the rough sex and the pins and the rope that were the torture like
20:10Like that would be the torture to uh
20:13to still
20:14love him and
20:17that's
20:18why Lyle used to say, you know, yeah, they'd be proud of us and
20:23I'd always agree with him. But then later I think I mean, they're not proud that we killed them
20:29But then just the last few days in here
20:33And really since Saturday and I just thinking a lot it just really occurred to me that did that he probably would
20:40You know
20:42Like in heaven right now, he'd be looking down and he'd say thank you Eric and Lyle
20:46You know
20:46You did what you had to do to me because what I did to you was really wrong
20:51And I love you and you you took that off my shoulders or you took it off my soul or whatever if that
20:58Makes sense
21:00Are you made me into someone who doesn't do that anymore is what Lyle meant and what I mean so that now I could
21:07Now we can love him again
21:10Really for the first time because he's not doing that anymore
21:13So that's why I don't want to be here all alone
21:18With that thought banging around my head not without Lyle not here and my friend gone now
21:29I
21:36Am just
21:38I'm just blown away by you Eric Menendez. You know, you shouldn't say no. I mean it. I really really do
21:44Really do. I know a lot of
21:47People I know a lot of very impressive people and you are right at the top
21:54With everything you have been through and what you have had to do and who you are right now
22:01Telling me all of this
22:04the bravery
22:06Eric
22:08You were just an incredible person and I just have to say it
22:13And thank you. I'm not gonna make this about me. But you know, my father was a fucking son of a bitch
22:20Really, yeah
22:22Yeah, abandon me and my brother
22:24this man that I love told me I was this little princess and he just
22:30Dropped off without so much as a word ran away with another family and I haven't heard from him in 34 years
22:37and
22:38Well, thank you. I'd nothing like yours
22:41I just say that by way of you know, hearing all of this which is just mind-boggling and hearing it
22:48Thank you is just you know
22:52You don't have to forgive him
22:55your father
22:57Okay, my father wasn't one-tenth of one millionth of a percentage as bad as yours
23:03Okay, just no comparison and my brother he's forgiven him. You know, he talks to him
23:11but Eric
23:13No fucking way
23:15Will I forgive him for what he did not now not ever and I just say that
23:23Cuz you have that option, too
23:26Okay, okay because you know hearing all this I I just have to keep asking myself and asking you
23:35Where was your mother in all this? Well see cuz let's not
23:40Cheated on her and Lyle said he walked out on them one time and my dad was raping her. Okay. Well
23:46My dad ruined her life. I think and she would sometimes say which well wasn't even
23:52she would um
23:55What
23:57With Lyle she would sometimes
24:00Should sometimes get naked. This is your mother
24:02Yes, but it wasn't it. It wasn't like it was with my dad
24:07But it wasn't it it wasn't like it was with my dad she was
24:11she just wanted us to think she had a nice body and she liked ours, but it was just looking or
24:17well
24:18Yeah, it's just looking she would
24:23When I was 16 she started doing this thing where because I think by then the stuff with dad was intense she
24:31My mom would do this thing where she would inspect my
24:36Penis yeah, and you know, she'd be like, why do you shave it all and I'd be like no dad did that but I couldn't
24:43Say that cuz well
24:45It was weird because we were close
24:47But then dad also had these girlfriends and so I think that she also thought that I was too
24:52Like I like that. I was sleeping with dad. So I was
24:57she was I was coming between them and
25:00That wasn't ever something that we talked about like she would have never said anything
25:04It was just something that you knew but you didn't talk about because that was just our family
25:09but I knew how she felt and
25:11Her feeling that way was why I think she like made me get a girlfriend
25:16But she would do the inspections right like you do these inspections of my yeah
25:19Because she was terrified of AIDS and she would always check me for blisters like on my penis
25:25and I think it was because it was a way to see if like
25:29You know because I I think she knew that dad and I were so that you know
25:32If one of dad's girlfriends had something and then I got it. I don't she could get it
25:36I want to go back for a second. Actually, it's not important. Just forget that you had AIDS. No, it's just it's not important
25:43Yeah, but why would she think I said it's not important. No, but I guess what I mean is
25:48She just wanted to make sure so she would do those inspections. That's why well
25:52Why would she?
25:54Think you would get AIDS and before you answer that I just want to say that I am NOT your mother
26:01Okay, and frankly, I don't like your mother. I'm sorry. No, that's not a mother Eric. Okay, and I am a mother
26:08Wasn't the perfect one. I'm sure maybe that's why I want another shot at it
26:12Okay, but for you to I mean, I know you left her I do
26:16I we were really close lying on her weren't at all
26:19And a mother is you know, everyone's gonna love their mother and I do but for her to have known and
26:26To have not intervened. Yes, because because she knows but let me just I'm sorry
26:30Let me just say this and we can go back because there were a lot of avenues that she could have taken there
26:35Okay, where she could have gone to the authorities where she could have said no
26:40Not my sons. You will not abuse my sons, right?
26:45And that's a pretty low bar. Okay, and she didn't do that
26:49She'd do any of that
26:52Not because of you look at me not because of you but because of her
27:00Okay
27:01So for you to yes, you can love her. Yes, you can sympathize with her and then I want to ask you something
27:08But I just want to say this to you and I would say it to Lyle you deserved better than her
27:15won't even mention your father that goes without saying that man is
27:19In a place is all I'll say but your mom too
27:22And if what you were saying is true and what Lyle is saying is true you deserved better
27:31Okay, so that's just where I'm coming from
27:35Hey Eric
27:38Can you tell me why she thought you had AIDS can you just tell me
27:42Well, see, um, this is what's so hard what about because I don't know
27:54I
27:56Don't know what way you are
27:58And what way you're supposed to be when that's your childhood
28:02like when that's what your dad's doing to you like
28:04Well, I remember one time my mom she called Lyle and me and I don't think she meant it
28:09but she screamed at us like you're sociopaths and a part of me was like well,
28:15maybe we are sociopaths, but
28:18Can you blame us if we are when you know, what's been happening to us?
28:22so like the feelings I have of like
28:25Yeah, or that's all I like whatever feelings I have or which way I
28:30like I just I
28:32Don't I don't know if it's me or
28:36how I was supposed to be
28:39And
28:41That's what I'm saying. I don't know
28:44I don't know
28:46I don't know
28:47I don't know
28:49I don't know
28:51I don't know
28:53And that's why she with the inspections when I was 16 because
29:03It's okay, I don't want to say who it was but um, I
29:10Was I
29:12Was kind of in love with a boy
29:17Or like a teenager like me who's a boy? Okay, but it was cuz I was having sex with my dad
29:23Do you know like that's not normal and that made me not normal. And so he wasn't he didn't
29:30He this boy. He didn't have a dad who did that to him. He was just always that way, but
29:35I'm not sure I was and I'm not sure I am but like I have those feelings like I
29:43Was in love with someone and
29:47He this boy we said we would never say each other's names and I won't
29:52But when we had sex then it was it wasn't like it was with my dad it was
29:58nice
30:00It was really nice
30:03It was really nice
30:08And in here it was was really nice but now it's whatever it doesn't matter but
30:16Okay
30:19Okay, no, I actually I don't think you
30:24Know I understand. No, I I think you think I'm saying something different than I am like, yes
30:29I've done certain things and so, you know, you're gonna say I'm one way and you're gonna tell everyone I'm one way but I'm not
30:36Actually, no
30:38Okay, but what I'm saying is I'm just saying I don't know
30:43Okay, I don't know what I am
30:45I can't tell what I am and I never will be able to tell is what I'm saying
30:48And yeah, maybe I am a sociopath and maybe I should have got AIDS and maybe I'll only like it this way because with girls
30:55It was like, how could I even know when he's done this to me when it's been happening for so long
31:01I don't remember when it started when I can't remember a time when my dad wasn't fucking me like he broke me
31:07I'm a broken person. Yes. I am. He broke me into he cracked me in half
31:12I am NOT a real person
31:14You are when the only man you want to love does that to you you stop being real you are real. Stop saying that
31:31I am the hurt man
31:36What is the hurt man
31:43It's me
31:48That's the name for yourself, yes since I since when you were little first as long as I can remember
31:56That's what I call myself
31:58Since forever
32:01That's always been my name
32:06And it's never gonna end and it's never gonna not hurt
32:13I shot my mom in the face and my dad I think
32:19That's not a
32:21That's not a normal thing you do
32:24so I
32:26Don't know what I am
32:27And I don't think I'll ever know
32:30It's what I realized since Saturday if I don't get out of here, I will get you out of stop. Stop saying that I
32:40Will never really know who I am
32:43If I don't get out of here
32:46I'll never know
33:12I
33:42Oh
34:12You
34:32You
34:42You
35:12You
35:42You