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NewsTranscript
00:00:00Bismillah-e-Rahman-e-Rahim, Assalam-o-Alaikum, Baakhabar-e-Sabera, Welcome to Good Morning
00:00:24to you all.
00:00:25Hopefully, everything will be okay. We come here early in the morning and share all the
00:00:32important updates with you. As far as Karachi is concerned, the weather is the same. It is
00:00:37very hot. And these are the circumstances. And we are seeing a lot of changes in the political
00:00:44landscape. Introduction, I was just about to start. I am Sadaf Abdul Jabbar. I am Ashfaq
00:00:53Ishaq Siddi. And like Sadaf said, we are seeing a lot of things changing very fast.
00:01:01A few days ago, we were talking about whether the constitution will be amended. But now
00:01:06we know that the new Chief Justice of Pakistan has been nominated. And just a while ago,
00:01:12Sadaf Sahib approved it.
00:01:14Let me tell you one thing. The Parliamentary Committee was sitting. And of course, all
00:01:21the parties were represented in it. PTI boycotted it. There were negotiations with them. But
00:01:26the negotiations were unsuccessful.
00:01:28Although their names were in the committee.
00:01:30Their names were in the committee. So PTI minus the members of the committee, they held
00:01:34an in-camera meeting on three names for a long time. And they properly evaluated the
00:01:39performance of the judges and other issues. And then Justice Yahya, who was on the third
00:01:45number, was nominated as Chief Justice of Pakistan.
00:01:51On the first number, Justice Mansoor Ali Shah was nominated as seniority. On the second
00:01:55number, Justice Muneeb Akhtar was nominated as seniority. So by minusing both of them,
00:01:59Justice Yahya Afridi has been nominated.
00:02:01I guess the President has signed it.
00:02:04Yes, the President has signed it.
00:02:06And now you see that Sadaf Abdul Jabbar, in 1997, a law firm was created. Afridi, Shah
00:02:13and Minullah.
00:02:14You see, there were two people in it. Justice Yahya Afridi, who was on the third number,
00:02:19and Justice Mansoor Ali Shah.
00:02:21So two senior judges of that law firm were involved in this competition to become Chief
00:02:26Justice of Pakistan.
00:02:27Anyway, he became the first additional judge of Peshawar High Court.
00:02:31Then he was made Chief Justice.
00:02:33So he already had administrative experience.
00:02:36And then he was elevated here in the Supreme Court of Pakistan.
00:02:41And it is said about him that he gives his own decisions on justice and does not come
00:02:45under any kind of pressure.
00:02:47But there is one thing, Sadaf Abdul Jabbar, that he is now 69 years old.
00:02:51So he will retire after three years.
00:02:53Generally, the retirement age of judges is 65 years.
00:02:56But after this new regulation has come, he will retire at the age of 62.
00:03:00That is, he already had six years of his career remaining.
00:03:03But now it will be three years.
00:03:05According to the new law, he will retire after three years.
00:03:09Okay, now we will show you all the details in one more package.
00:03:14Last night, we were seeing that there was a lot of report on this.
00:03:19So the Minister of Justice was being asked, how did you evaluate?
00:03:23He said, I have taken an oath.
00:03:25So I can't tell you the details of the in-camera session.
00:03:28Farooq Ishnaik also said this.
00:03:30But there is news from Zarai that the senator of JUI, Kamran Murtaza, did not agree on
00:03:36the name of Justice Yahya Afridi.
00:03:38In fact, he agreed on the name of Justice Mansoor Ali Shah.
00:03:41And this is a matter of two-thirds majority.
00:03:43There was also a disagreement on this.
00:03:45Let's take Mr. Khawar Guman on this and talk to him.
00:03:48So Mr. Khawar Guman, it is said that the country does not progress so fast.
00:03:54The changes that have been brought as a result of the regular changes.
00:03:59And especially now we saw that there was a time when the Noon League also said that
00:04:03Mansoor Ali Shah will be the Chief Justice on 26th October.
00:04:06But now you see that the committee chose Mr. Yahya Afridi.
00:04:12So there must be many aspects in this.
00:04:14So this decision regarding the special sessions,
00:04:17in which four ladies, including the current Chief Justice of Pakistan,
00:04:22who have not yet retired, included Mr. Yahya Afridi,
00:04:25who disagreed.
00:04:27And the majority bench gave a separate decision on Mansoor Ali Shah's leadership.
00:04:30So this aspect must have also been kept for the sake of consensus.
00:04:37The majority of the bench has been kept for the sake of consensus.
00:04:41But this was an understood decision.
00:04:45I don't think there was any misunderstanding in this.
00:04:47Because if Mansoor Ali Shah wanted to be the Chief Justice,
00:04:52then all these meetings,
00:04:54the whole night, you know,
00:04:57the National Assembly session took place.
00:05:00In which our Chief Justice and the President of PMLN,
00:05:03you know, read a weightless couplet.
00:05:06And then you must have seen its clarification.
00:05:10No, he just added a tone.
00:05:12Mr. Khawar, you are being unfair.
00:05:14No, no, Maulana Fazl-ur-Rehman, if he recited it,
00:05:16Maulana Fazl-ur-Rehman said that...
00:05:18He also recited a couplet. He is a very famous qawwali of a film.
00:05:21So he said that if this couplet becomes weightless,
00:05:24then all its fun will be ruined.
00:05:26This was said by Maulana Fazl-ur-Rehman.
00:05:28So the only purpose of doing all this exercise,
00:05:33in Pakistan, all those who have a little understanding,
00:05:38the purpose was to not let Justice Mansoor Ali Shah become the Chief Justice.
00:05:42Yesterday, you saw, a statement was published,
00:05:45by the respected Minister of Defense, Sajjad Asif,
00:05:49who was also a part of this committee,
00:05:51that eight judges who have decided on these special sessions,
00:05:56and they gave this statement on the floor of the House,
00:05:59that their attempt was to bring Bani PTI back into power.
00:06:05So among those eight judges,
00:06:07Justice Mansoor and Justice Muneeb Akhtar,
00:06:11who have decided on these special sessions, are included.
00:06:14So we can say that in the evaluation,
00:06:17your political inclination,
00:06:21we can see a lot in this.
00:06:25Yes.
00:06:26And yesterday, Justice Qazi Faiz Issa Sahib,
00:06:29also issued a rational decision,
00:06:33in which two judges,
00:06:35most of the judges were criticized,
00:06:38but two judges were mentioned,
00:06:40in which Justice Mansoor Ali Shah,
00:06:42and Justice Muneeb Akhtar were mentioned.
00:06:44So does this also count in the evaluation, Fawad?
00:06:46Look, first of all,
00:06:48the minority or the opposing note,
00:06:52has no importance in the official language,
00:06:56or in the language of law,
00:06:59because the decision is made by the majority.
00:07:02They have an opposing note,
00:07:04and they express their opinion.
00:07:06But obviously, as I said,
00:07:08we don't go into any conjecture,
00:07:11or any conspiracy theory.
00:07:13These are all statements,
00:07:15given by the ministers of the current ruling party.
00:07:19In the case of Justice Mansoor Ali Shah,
00:07:21Bilawal Bhutto Zardari Sahib's statement,
00:07:23that he will not be able to control Iblis,
00:07:26that he will not be able to control his brother judges,
00:07:29and Khawaja Asif Sahib's statement,
00:07:31which I just read to you.
00:07:33So all of this is obvious.
00:07:35After that, as you said,
00:07:37Justice Qazi Faiz Issa Sahib,
00:07:39the note that will be issued tomorrow,
00:07:41that can also be discussed in the committee.
00:07:44But the incident that took place yesterday,
00:07:48the biggest fact is that
00:07:50two of the senior judges have been sidelined,
00:07:54and the judge on the third position...
00:07:57So what happens in this situation?
00:08:00What happens in this situation?
00:08:02Will they remain?
00:08:04Obviously, their seniority has been compromised.
00:08:07What is the option in this regard?
00:08:10Look, this is not the first time.
00:08:14In the past, when the executive had the option,
00:08:17there is no such tradition in the judiciary.
00:08:21For example, yesterday a junior judge was appointed,
00:08:24a judge on the third position,
00:08:26and two senior judges resigned.
00:08:28Look, a sitting judge has the right to resign at any time.
00:08:33But there is no such tradition
00:08:35that a junior judge has been appointed,
00:08:37and a senior judge has resigned.
00:08:40But Khawaja Sahib, I would like to disagree on one thing.
00:08:44You said that all this exercise was done
00:08:47to prevent Mansoor Ali Shah from being elected.
00:08:50But why not?
00:08:51The reason for this is that
00:08:53you have taken the option of a sumo wrestler,
00:08:55you have taken the option of making an I.N.E. bench,
00:08:57you have reduced the position to three years.
00:08:59That is, even if he stays for a year,
00:09:01if he is 65 or 64, he will do it for a year.
00:09:04Otherwise, he still has six years,
00:09:07or Mr. Afridi, Mr. Justice,
00:09:09but in three years, he will be exempted from his position.
00:09:12Elections cannot be given to any institution,
00:09:14sumo wrestling cannot be taken,
00:09:16the Judicial Commission has more power,
00:09:18the government has more power,
00:09:20then what difference would it make
00:09:22if any Chief Justice was elected?
00:09:24Look, this is an opinion that you are expressing,
00:09:29but it is also possible that,
00:09:31for example, if you read the 26th I.N.E. amendment,
00:09:35that there is a possibility that
00:09:37the new Chief Justices of the Supreme Court
00:09:41should also be made the presiding judge
00:09:43of that Constitutional bench,
00:09:45so that they also supervise it.
00:09:47This is what the I.N.E. amendment says,
00:09:49so there is a possibility,
00:09:51but this is your analysis on this,
00:09:55that, in other words,
00:09:57if we say that there will be
00:09:59toothless Chief Justices,
00:10:01in comparison to sitting Chief Justices,
00:10:03like Qazi Sahib,
00:10:05who has an opinion,
00:10:07this opinion is coming to us.
00:10:09But obviously,
00:10:11it is a constitutional position,
00:10:13just like the President of Pakistan
00:10:15does not have any authority,
00:10:17but you know that the President of Pakistan
00:10:19is a major position of the I.N.E.
00:10:21Similarly, the Chief Justices of Pakistan
00:10:23will be the same,
00:10:25it is a constitutional position,
00:10:27if someone has a desire to become a Chief Justice,
00:10:29every person who becomes a judge
00:10:31has a desire,
00:10:33so I will never say that
00:10:35this is less in respect to
00:10:37the constitution,
00:10:39this is a constitutional position.
00:10:41The way the name came up,
00:10:43like in the meeting,
00:10:45many people were showing
00:10:47concern that
00:10:49the two senior judges
00:10:51should have an idea
00:10:53as to why their name
00:10:55was not put forward,
00:10:57why they were not selected,
00:10:59so you think that this should be forwarded,
00:11:01by saying In Camera,
00:11:03many issues will not come up,
00:11:05so there is a factor of transparency here.
00:11:07You boycotted in a different way,
00:11:09what was the decision of their boycott,
00:11:11would it have made any difference
00:11:13if they had not done it,
00:11:15and what are you going to see in the future?
00:11:17The second question is,
00:11:19whether the PDI boycotted or not,
00:11:21it did not make any difference,
00:11:23the majority was present
00:11:25with the government,
00:11:27and they used it,
00:11:29number one,
00:11:31number two,
00:11:33in other words,
00:11:35do they have the right
00:11:37to be told
00:11:39why they were boycotted,
00:11:41so I don't think
00:11:43there is a problem,
00:11:45they cannot ask
00:11:47because when the executive
00:11:49has the power,
00:11:51you must have seen that
00:11:53a junior secretary
00:11:55can also be given the position
00:11:57of a secretary.
00:11:59But do you know,
00:12:01when the parliamentary committee
00:12:03used to be of 8 members,
00:12:05at that time it was said
00:12:07that if someone is superseded,
00:12:09then he will be told in writing
00:12:11what his reasons were,
00:12:13so that there is transparency in it,
00:12:15not that it is my wish,
00:12:17I did what I wanted.
00:12:19No, I said that
00:12:21because they decided
00:12:23in the 26th amendment
00:12:25that this will be an in-camera meeting,
00:12:27and they are not bound to tell
00:12:29why the people who have been superseded
00:12:31have been sidelined.
00:12:33But here, I think,
00:12:35this is the story
00:12:37that everyone knows,
00:12:39that why Mansoor Ali Shah
00:12:41was sidelined.
00:12:43I have just read the statements
00:12:45of senior leaders of
00:12:47government parties.
00:12:49This is very clear.
00:12:51Everyone in Pakistan knew
00:12:53who knows a little about
00:12:55the history of Pakistan.
00:12:57See, there was no point
00:12:59in all this exercise.
00:13:01If Justice Mansoor Ali Shah
00:13:03had to become,
00:13:05then what was the need
00:13:07to do all this?
00:13:09But what is the independence
00:13:11of judiciary?
00:13:13The fundamental structure
00:13:15of the constitution.
00:13:17It is a trichotomy of power.
00:13:19Your democratic system
00:13:21operates like this.
00:13:23There is an executive branch,
00:13:25which is your parliament.
00:13:27So, has the independence of judiciary
00:13:29been strengthened?
00:13:31Or do you think it is no longer there?
00:13:33Look, this academic discussion,
00:13:35since this decision was made,
00:13:37the 26th amendment has come.
00:13:39Yesterday, ICIJ
00:13:41also issued a comprehensive press release.
00:13:43Last night, the Human Rights Commission
00:13:45of Pakistan also issued a detailed press release.
00:13:47And all over the world,
00:13:49those institutions,
00:13:51those organizations,
00:13:53they say that
00:13:55this decision is not good.
00:13:57If you look at the background
00:13:59of Pakistan,
00:14:01it is obvious that
00:14:03the government has taken
00:14:05the power into its own hands.
00:14:07Not only the decision of the judges,
00:14:09but also the performance
00:14:11of the judges.
00:14:13Therefore, the judge,
00:14:15the sitting judge of the High Court
00:14:17or Supreme Court,
00:14:19will be evaluated
00:14:21on the basis of this decision.
00:14:23One more thing, Mr. Khawaja.
00:14:25The government has taken the power
00:14:27into its own hands.
00:14:29Tell me one thing.
00:14:31You are in Islamabad.
00:14:33The judicial fraternity,
00:14:35the legal law fraternity,
00:14:37the lawyers,
00:14:39the lawyers,
00:14:41the lawyers,
00:14:43what is their thinking
00:14:45after this decision?
00:14:47What do they intend to do?
00:14:49What is your assessment on this?
00:14:51Look,
00:14:53there are two perspectives
00:14:55that are being discussed.
00:14:57Number one,
00:14:59will Justice Yaya Afridi
00:15:01accept this decision?
00:15:03We will find out
00:15:05in the next few days.
00:15:07If Justice Yaya Afridi
00:15:09declines,
00:15:11which is being discussed.
00:15:13Last night,
00:15:15I was listening to Mr. Chaudhry.
00:15:17Justice Yaya Afridi
00:15:19is 80% sure
00:15:21that he will decline
00:15:23this position.
00:15:25As you said,
00:15:27he has 6 years left.
00:15:29Secondly,
00:15:31when there is no preparation,
00:15:33instead of taking this position,
00:15:35he can sit comfortably
00:15:37and keep his 6 years
00:15:39in the Supreme Court
00:15:41with him.
00:15:43Because one and one equals.
00:15:45But he could have declined
00:15:47at the time of nomination.
00:15:49Look, Mr. Khawar,
00:15:51since nothing is decided yet,
00:15:53it is possible that
00:15:55if Justice Yaya Afridi declines,
00:15:57let's assume that,
00:15:59it is possible that the people
00:16:01who were below the seniority list
00:16:03will be promoted.
00:16:05No.
00:16:07All three senior judges
00:16:09will be selected.
00:16:11The remaining two
00:16:13will be selected.
00:16:15Secondly,
00:16:17yesterday you heard
00:16:19that the Bars
00:16:21were saying that
00:16:23it would be better
00:16:25to appoint a senior judge
00:16:27so that the fight does not
00:16:29go ahead.
00:16:31The politics of the Bars
00:16:33are saying that
00:16:35they will protect him.
00:16:37Let's see how it goes.
00:16:39Thirdly,
00:16:41we should keep this in mind.
00:16:43Let's not assume
00:16:45that Yaya Afridi becomes
00:16:47the Chief Justice.
00:16:49On the 26th, he takes
00:16:51the oath of office.
00:16:53On the 27th, he calls
00:16:55a full-court meeting.
00:16:57He calls for a hearing.
00:16:59And the 26th amendment
00:17:01that has been challenged,
00:17:03if it is decided that
00:17:05this is the 26th amendment,
00:17:07it is a work on the
00:17:09freedom of the press.
00:17:11It is a work on the
00:17:13freedom of the press.
00:17:15Everything will be reversed.
00:17:17But how?
00:17:19There is no need for a notice.
00:17:21If someone challenges,
00:17:23then the matter will be discussed.
00:17:25We cannot strike down
00:17:27an unconstitutional amendment.
00:17:29But still, this full court
00:17:31cannot be like this in the last.
00:17:33It has to have a mechanism.
00:17:35How will it be reversed?
00:17:37This is what I was saying.
00:17:39This is the matter.
00:17:41You must remember.
00:17:43In 2010, when the
00:17:4518th amendment was passed,
00:17:47the national court
00:17:49called a full-court meeting.
00:17:51The 18th amendment
00:17:53was declared unconstitutional.
00:17:55And in that bench,
00:17:57Justice Qazi Faiz Bisa
00:17:59was also present.
00:18:01He is the current Chief Justice.
00:18:03So, this is also an option.
00:18:05Let's see what happens.
00:18:07Let's see what happens.
00:18:09Let's see what happens.
00:18:11I was saying that Sadaf has
00:18:13corrected me.
00:18:15But I also know that
00:18:17everyone interprets the amendment
00:18:19in their own way.
00:18:21You never know what the government
00:18:23thinks about it.
00:18:25I am talking about the government.
00:18:27Sadaf will read you
00:18:29paragraph 175A,
00:18:31paragraph 175A,
00:18:33In that paragraph,
00:18:35it is clearly stated that
00:18:37if a judge is declined,
00:18:39then the remaining
00:18:41judges will be appointed.
00:18:43If the remaining judges
00:18:45also decline,
00:18:47then you will be
00:18:49nominated
00:18:51to the fourth or fifth position.
00:18:53to the fourth or fifth position.
00:18:55There is always a margin.
00:18:57There is always a margin.
00:18:59There is always a margin.
00:19:01Let's see how the judges
00:19:03will be made.
00:19:05Let's see who will be the head of the judges.
00:19:07Let's see who will be the head of the judges.
00:19:09Let's see what happens.
00:19:11Let's see what happens.
00:19:13Let's see what happens.
00:19:15Let's see what happens.
00:19:23Welcome back, once again.
00:19:25Let me tell you
00:19:27that after this amendment,
00:20:29the
00:20:45other side.
00:20:46We will take revenge.
00:20:47We will not let go.
00:20:48We will also protest against the non-violence that has been passed.
00:20:49If that senior judge is not made the Chief Justice, we will make a final and another
00:20:50protest.
00:20:51We will block the whole of Pakistan and move forward towards Islamabad.
00:20:52The protest will continue until we do not get rid of this government.
00:20:53Let's talk to the leader of Muslim League Noon, Bilal Azhar Qayani.
00:20:54He is with us now.
00:20:55Thank you so much, Bilal.