In this episode we talk about a new payment method that is being studied by the European Central Bank: the digital euro. Do we need another alternative for online payments and could this project have negative impacts on the banking system?
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00:00Digital and online payments are the new normal for shoppers in Europe, but another method
00:20of payment is being considered, the digital euro.
00:25Do we really need it?
00:26How much will it cost?
00:28And what's the point?
00:29It is already raising these questions among lawmakers and bankers.
00:34That is under the lens on Udicoded this week.
00:38Between 2019 and 2022, cash fell from 72% to 59% as a total share of payments.
00:46By contrast, total electronic money transactions leapt from 4.6 billion to 8.4 billion.
00:54The European Central Bank's planned digital euro would be available on a rechargeable
00:58card, a digital wallet or a mobile app.
01:02A digital euro account could be set up at a bank, a post office or an online platform.
01:08But would people really use it?
01:11I use digital payments because it's easier, I don't have to walk around with cash, it's
01:17on my phone, it's more practical, easier, faster.
01:20I feel that the government has to know where I spend my money and if it's cash, I can
01:25spend it wherever I want.
01:26I've heard of digital currencies, specifically for the European continent, the European Union.
01:33No.
01:34The digital part, at the moment, as I say, I've been through situations of fraud and
01:40suspended cards and attempts to hack my own account, which I confess makes me a little
01:46embarrassed, a little not very safe in relation to that.
01:51But it's possible.
01:53Yeah, it could easily handle more transactions over the borders and when you cooperate with
02:00different companies in different lands.
02:03So yes.
02:04Are you worried about your security when you do digital payments?
02:09Sometimes, but I usually trust the banks.
02:13So if the banks are involved, yes.
02:15Paola, how is the digital euro different from a cryptocurrency such as Bitcoin and others?
02:22Well, unlike cryptocurrencies such as Bitcoin or Ethereum, this version would be risk-free.
02:29What does this mean?
02:31Well, basically, when we have a digital euro or a central bank digital currency, it is
02:37subject to a banking regulation.
02:39So if you have a problem, you can go to the central bank or you can go to your traditional
02:44bank and get some help or support.
02:48Does it mean that the digital euro is not a currency for investments?
02:52People will not make money on it like interest in the banks.
02:55It's just something for their daily lives?
02:57Yes.
02:58The initial idea of this project of the digital euro is basically that it serves as an alternative
03:04means of payment.
03:06So it wants to be as close to cash as possible, meaning that it is free for users, it is accessible
03:15and that it ensures that citizens are protected and that we have financial stability.
03:22So the private banking system is largely against this proposal.
03:28Why?
03:29Well, it's basically that European banks are a bit concerned or sceptical about the added
03:36value of this proposal.
03:38This is mainly because we don't know yet the overall cost of this project.
03:44We don't know exactly which infrastructure we're going to use for this project and it
03:50is also because they fear that they could lose some bank deposits.
03:54The ECB already said that they are trying to ensure that this is just an alternative
04:03means of payment and it is not meant to be a savings vehicle for large amounts of money.
04:10So they would cap with a limit, for instance, so that the banks would not feel too much
04:14of the impact?
04:15Exactly.
04:16They don't know the figures yet, but they are planning to have these holding limits
04:19that they are currently discussing in the ECB as they are in the preparatory phase.
04:24The proposal is currently a bit stalled at the European Parliament because it was supposed
04:28to be voted in April, but that never happened and they just had a briefing or, well, a hearing
04:37with the ECB representatives in September.
04:40Let's look at the pros and cons.
04:42Inclusion is seen as a pro as people with no private bank account or access to Internet
04:47could use it.
04:48Privacy is a thorny issue, but the ECB claims it would not be able to identify payment habits.
04:55Fraud and money laundering could be harder to detect if untraceable.
04:59If too successful, banks might lose deposits and no longer be able to lend.
05:06With us at the European Parliament is Damian Böselager, the Vice Chair of the Committee
05:11for Economic and Monetary Affairs.
05:13Many people are sceptical about the idea of a digital euro.
05:17Do you think it's worth doing?
05:19I find it super exciting.
05:20It is a great innovation to think about more and more people are using digital means of
05:25payment for any sorts of things and we are currently very reliant on, for example, Apple
05:30and so on, which uses credit card payment providers to be able to pay.
05:35Does the EU need to reduce its dependency on Visa, Mastercard, for example?
05:41You can always use your credit card.
05:43It's completely fine.
05:44Nobody is going to take that away from you.
05:45But I think it should be possible to have something similar to handing over a cash note
05:49to also do that on the digital level and the digital wallet together with the digital euro
05:54would allow for that without any form of transaction going outside to a private sector entity,
05:59but just basically via public sector entities.
06:02And I think both is fine.
06:03You should just be able to choose.
06:05And what privacy controls is the European Parliament trying to secure for the digital euro?
06:12It's obviously extremely important that if you have agglomerated a lot of data about
06:16a lot of transactions and about a lot of individuals, you need to make sure that there is anonymization,
06:22that there is a way to make sure that this cannot be breached with cybersecurity issues.
06:26And maybe when the transactions are of a lower value, can be anonymous.
06:31And then only if it's larger transactions should be somehow maybe followable also to
06:36ensure anti-money laundering mechanisms still work.
06:39But I think there's a lot of layers that we can put in.
06:42The United Kingdom and China are moving in this area.
06:45Are you worried the European Union would be left behind?
06:48And here's one moment where we are actually leading, where we can be leading if we come
06:51forward with a good proposal.
06:53But we shouldn't dissect it now with lobby interests from all dimensions.
06:56We should really think about what makes sense and what is the added benefit, as you said,
07:00for the retail industry and for the individual customers.
07:02Just to add, because some people say digital euro would be more about the sovereignty,
07:06the financial sovereignty of the EU.
07:08Is this also a value that you think it's important to safeguard?
07:12I think it could have a big advantage for us as well.
07:14Also because we wouldn't be relying on third country payment providers or even European
07:20payment providers, but we could also rely on a public institution, in this case the
07:24central bank, to be able to do our payments.
07:26That gives you some sovereignty also, some independence.
07:29I think it's important, not just from third countries, but in general from failing banks
07:33and I hope that this will work.
07:35The digital euro may boost Europe's financial sovereignty, but at what cost?
07:41Anyway, it won't be coming anytime soon, if it happens at all.
07:46Any legislation to be agreed in Brussels and with the Member States will take two to three years.
07:52I'll be coming with more EU decoding next week.