Isiah Thomas, CEO of Isiah International and a two-time NBA champion, joins Forbes senior writer Jabari Young at the Nasdaq MasketSite to talk business and basketball. During the interview, Thomas explains why he shifted his hemp company, One World Products, from Colombian cannabis to the U.S. automotive supply chain sector, updates the business surrounding his wine company, and discusses what he seeks in entrepreneurs.
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LifestyleTranscript
00:00Let it be known, Pro Basketball Hall of Famer, NBA Champion, CEO of Isaiah International is here at the Nasdaq.
00:08That's it. On the other side, talking business with Isaiah Thomas.
00:14Hello everyone, this is Jabari Young, Senior Writer at Forbes, and I'm at the Nasdaq Market site.
00:19And I just told you who we were ready to talk to. Let it be known, Isaiah Thomas is here.
00:24Pro Basketball Hall of Famer, two-time NBA Champion, 12-time NBA All-Star, Detroit Pistons Legend, CEO of Isaiah International, Forbes BLK Advisor.
00:35Did I miss anything?
00:36Yeah, yeah, no, no, that's good enough.
00:38Millionaire, right?
00:39No, no, no, no.
00:41Humanitarian.
00:42Humanitarian.
00:43Giving to the future.
00:44Absolutely, man.
00:45Zeke, it is a pleasure to have you at the Nasdaq, man.
00:49I mean, we've always talked.
00:50We always have the conversations.
00:51A year ago, we was in Atlanta at the first annual BLK Summit.
00:54I love that moment.
00:55We'll get to that in a minute.
00:56But how are you doing, man?
00:57I'm doing good.
00:58I'm doing good.
01:00Appreciate you coming, man.
01:01Listen, we're here at the stock market.
01:02You've got to give me a stock.
01:03What has worked well for Isaiah Thomas all these years that maybe you still have in your portfolio?
01:07Or once you let it go, it serves you well?
01:10I would say for me, communications and technology stocks have been – they've worked well for me.
01:18Whether it be Apple, AT&T, the things you need.
01:23The bread and butter and the food that comes to the table, that's what I invest in.
01:31The things that you use every single day, those are the things that I invest in.
01:36Yeah, Procter & Gamble, I told people, that's a great stock.
01:39It's in your house.
01:40Everywhere you look, Procter & Gamble is in your house.
01:42That's what my econ teacher told me.
01:44My econ teacher told me in high school, go into your pantry and look and see what products that you're using at home.
01:52And that's what you invest in.
01:54And I said to him, I said, well, you know, we ain't got no food in my pantry.
01:59So I went over to my friend's house and I saw – and we were doing like a little high school experiment.
02:06And you just – really, the things that you use every single day, those are the things you should invest in.
02:13Absolutely, man.
02:14I'm a big Southwest flyer and I just bought some Southwest stock.
02:16I had to.
02:17That's how I use it.
02:18As a CEO, what is the first order of business that you do after a U.S. presidential election?
02:25Because you're an international CEO.
02:27It comes all over the world.
02:28What do you do after you know who the candidate is, you know there's going to be a whole new administration?
02:33What's the first action of business?
02:35What are the rules of the game?
02:37What rules are we going to be playing by with this administration as opposed to the last administration?
02:46And particularly being a minority owner, right?
02:49And with DEI being discussed so much, if that goes away, then how are companies going to operate?
02:58What is going to be their public discourse?
03:02Will they continue to hire and practice things that they've done in the past?
03:09Or will they move to a totally different space and sector?
03:13So those are the things that I look at, like what are the rules of the game, how we're playing, and who are the officials?
03:22That's the big rule, right?
03:23Who are the officials?
03:24Are we going to get another Steve Javiel?
03:25Who are the officials?
03:26Yeah, yeah, yeah.
03:27And you've got to understand the rules.
03:29If you don't understand the rules, then you can't play.
03:32Yeah.
03:33And so once this administration lays out its rules, January 20th, right?
03:37Then you start understanding how you as a company have to operate and what are the opportunities,
03:44what are the things that you can do, and what are the things you can't do.
03:47Yeah.
03:48I'll get into more, you know, the new administration.
03:50If they called you for advice, think about that.
03:52What would you tell them?
03:53We'll get to that in a minute, man.
03:54Listen, one year ago, man, in November, you came to Atlanta.
03:57You was at the Forrest B.L.K. Summit, man.
03:59Thank you again for that opportunity.
04:00You turned so many heads down there and opened so many eyes to your champagne, right?
04:05It's a great moment.
04:06What do you remember about that, man?
04:08That was the inaugural Forrest B.L.K. Summit, man, and you were the first.
04:12I remember the conversations before we got on stage that we were having in the back room,
04:17that everyone had a chance to really kind of get to know each other, communicate, share ideas,
04:24and just really embrace each other and give each other love, support.
04:29It was a beautiful moment because I remember during that period of time when you were launching,
04:37you were a little nervous, but you had so much support and love around you that you couldn't fail.
04:44And that's what makes a team work.
04:46That's what makes business work.
04:49When people come around you, they hold you up, and even in those nervous moments when you're a little unsure,
04:57they're like, no, you can do it, you can do it.
04:59We got you.
05:00And I think that's what that room was all about, and here we are today.
05:03Yeah.
05:04Man, and three years going.
05:05Next year, I'm looking forward to the next one.
05:07Thank you for that, man.
05:09You almost had me going tears there, but I'm going to hold it back.
05:10Oh, no, no, no, no.
05:11That was all right.
05:13You talk about team, and before we start and switch fully into the business side, the NBA is in session.
05:18I don't think I have gone a year in my career covering the NBA without talking to you and getting some type of advice,
05:25whether I was in San Antonio covering the Spurs, calling you up, hey, what do the Spurs need to do better?
05:29What are they doing here?
05:30Or seeing you when you came down there working for NBA TV.
05:32But, again, we're almost 20 games in.
05:34One of the big rules I learned from Greg Popovich's staff is every 20 games is when you evaluate who you are.
05:40You can't do it after one game, after two, every 20 games.
05:44Here we are approaching the 20-game mark of the NBA season.
05:47What's been the biggest or who has been the biggest surprise?
05:50Well, you have to say Golden State.
05:52I mean, what Steph Curry and Draylon Green, Steve Kerr, what they've been able to rebuild, get back, and hold on to has been really impressive.
06:05I mean, as we sit here today, they're the number one seed in the Western.
06:09I know, yeah.
06:10So you have to be impressed with them.
06:12The disappointment has been the injuries, right?
06:15There's been so many injuries that have happened right now that makes it difficult.
06:19But as the season continues to progress, things will get better.
06:24But Golden State, to me, and Steph Curry, that group there, they've been the biggest surprise.
06:30Yeah, because we thought they were going to regress.
06:31We thought they were done, the dynasty was over, and here they are.
06:34Still a long season to go, but off the job, yeah.
06:36Still a long season, but the way they're playing, right?
06:38They're playing good basketball.
06:40They're moving.
06:41They're shooting.
06:42They're scoring.
06:43Minutes are down.
06:44You know, they're playing old school, Bob Knight, Lute Olsen basketball, which is great to see.
06:53Yeah, yeah.
06:54I mean, when you look at even the Phoenix Suns, I mean, you're advising on there.
06:57I've been impressed with them because this is another team that people weren't giving a shot.
07:00But they've got some continuity, right?
07:02They've got a little bit of chemistry.
07:04But is that a reason why you see maybe the Phoenix Suns or even Golden State Warriors a big continuity?
07:09Yeah, and then they've got the guns, right?
07:11Anytime you've got Kevin Durant, Devin Booker, Bradley Bill on your team, you've got a chance to win, right?
07:17And now they've got good coaching.
07:20When you look at Phoenix right now, you've got good coaching.
07:23You've got good chemistry.
07:25But they're hurt now.
07:26So they got off to a really good start.
07:29But Durant being down, Bill being down, Booker got 44 last night.
07:33Still wasn't enough.
07:34Yeah.
07:35But when those guys are back and they've got the coaching staff, I really like what I see there.
07:40Yeah.
07:41On the East, I've got to ask.
07:42I'm from Philly.
07:43When you look at my Sixers, what do you see?
07:45I see a team that they don't have anything there.
07:50I just don't know, Zeke.
07:52What am I looking at with this Philadelphia squad?
07:54They're not respecting the game is what I see.
07:57They have talent.
08:00They've got a lot of players.
08:02Yeah.
08:03They've got a great city.
08:04They've got a great fan base.
08:06But can they come together chemistry-wise, right?
08:11Because with the injuries that they have, you know, can you develop chemistry?
08:17Yeah.
08:18You know, with George, MB, Maxie, they're already in and out.
08:22And will these three have enough time to play together?
08:25Just as we were asking with the Cliffers, with Leonard, you know, Harden, and George,
08:30all of them being injured, they never developed chemistry, never had time to play together.
08:35Is this what we're getting ready to watch in Philly?
08:38I think so.
08:39I mean, I don't remember a championship team like that.
08:41Even you look at the Miami Heat that came together that first year that just turned it on and win.
08:44Like, you need repetition, time.
08:46They haven't played no preseason basketball.
08:48And so how do you expect to just turn it on like that?
08:50And they're already in a hole, right?
08:52I mean, that's why I say I don't know if they're respecting the game or the season or the process.
08:59I think they have respect for the game.
09:03I just don't know if they understand what the game requires for you to be a champion.
09:11Right.
09:13You can make the playoffs, but can you be a champion?
09:17And the game demands and requires a certain level of commitment, understanding, intelligence to be a champion.
09:27And I think they have respect for the game.
09:31I just don't think they understand what's required of them to be a champion.
09:35Yeah.
09:36Well, speaking of future champions, do you think Anthony Edwards will ever get one?
09:41Bad boy, man.
09:43He's a bad boy, but, you know, it takes more than talent to win.
09:46You know, there's a certain amount of chemistry and intellect that goes in to winning.
09:52You know, very few people win.
09:55Very few people have championships, right?
09:58So you can have all the talent.
10:00You can jump real high and shoot and do all the things skill wise.
10:06But mentally, can you master this game?
10:10And that's what it takes to be a champion.
10:12Absolutely.
10:13Absolutely.
10:14Do you still talk to young guys about business and about establishing their portfolio
10:19and establishing their business circles while they're at the highest level of attention with the NBA as the platform?
10:25Yes, I do.
10:26What are you telling them?
10:28The access that you have now to intellect and to CEOs while you're playing,
10:36every city that you go to, you should make it a point to reach out to the top two, three CEOs in that city,
10:44invite them to the game, have lunch with them, and see if they give you some advice.
10:50That's what I did, you know, for years in the NBA.
10:54So when I got out of the NBA, I had an advisory board, so to speak.
11:01And while you're playing, you know, your celebrity is, it gives you access.
11:09You know, your celebrity creates deal flow, and you can use your celebrity for deal flow.
11:16So that means you get a chance to look at some of the best deals that come in,
11:21but you have to have a pretty sharp group behind you that can let you know this is one we can look at,
11:28this is one we can't look at.
11:30And so I still help a lot of young guys right now.
11:35Do they listen?
11:37Some do, some don't, because most of them, they have advisors also.
11:43And sometimes you conflict with what their advisors are giving them.
11:48But they're your advisors, aren't you?
11:49You're a proven track record.
11:52Yeah, but, you know, some of them don't see my record in the business community as well as they do on the floor.
12:00Like in this champagne space, you know, we've been in this space now ten years and just starting to blow up, right?
12:10So this is the overnight success, but it's been ten years, and, you know, getting ready to,
12:18got to find some wood, getting ready to close a deal here on the champagne space that will really take us to the next level.
12:26But it's been ten years of building and grinding in it.
12:29So there's no overnight success.
12:32But you got to dot your I's, cross your T's, and you got to stay alive.
12:37Yeah.
12:38Well, let's dive into Isaiah International, right, because you just mentioned you have the champagne company as a part of it,
12:42the real estate construction.
12:44Isaiah Ticketing is a part of it.
12:46It's one world production products.
12:48We'll get into some news about that in a minute.
12:50But I'm curious about the real estate and construction front, right, because we are what one can consider in a housing crisis, right?
12:56People aren't building.
12:57We've got a whole bunch of people on the sidelines.
12:59Interest rates are a little bit still high.
13:01But I would imagine 2025, things may pick up, right?
13:04What are you seeing?
13:05What are you guys looking at on the real estate construction front?
13:07And make me feel good about 2025, man, because, again, the housing market is just not recovered the way that people thought it would.
13:13Well, multifamily and affordable housing will be focused on heavily.
13:19That all depends on the interest rates.
13:21Will you have access to capital the way you did maybe eight, nine years ago?
13:30That's going to be the driver.
13:32But I do think that home ownership is still the best way to build wealth and to build equity.
13:42In the affordable housing space, we are offering the multifamily and affordable housing space.
13:48And, you know, there's not enough housing in the United States right now.
13:53So that factor, along with construction, will continue to grow.
13:58And that will be an emphasis, I'm hoping, of the new administration coming in.
14:03Well, in that construction space, I mean, are you guys planning on, you know, building?
14:08Are you guys looking at 2025?
14:10I mean, I know interest and the capital has to be there, but are you guys planning on doing any construction to get there?
14:15Everybody, to me, I look at where the construction workers are.
14:18They're on the road.
14:19They're building.
14:20It's the infrastructure you build.
14:21That's where they are, right?
14:22That's where all the money is.
14:24So what needs to happen for us to start to see building again?
14:29So for myself, what I've looked at with One World Products is introducing a new raw material into the space.
14:37As opposed to using concrete, we'll start using hemp and what some people call hempcrete.
14:45Now, hemp takes carbon out of the air.
14:48It's just as strong in some places as concrete.
14:52Or you can use them both together to create a new raw material that can be used not only to help the environment but also strengthen the buildings also.
15:02So you have to find your niche and find a new way into a traditional market that you can play in.
15:13But if you're coming in trying to play like the established players who have been doing it one way for 100 years and you want to compete the same way that they've been competing, of course they have an edge.
15:26So what I've tried to do is introduce, you know, a new raw material.
15:31You know, what's old is new when you talk about hemp.
15:35Hemp, I see, is a replacement not only for plastics, but I think it will be used in every aspect of our daily lives.
15:42Well, let's dive into that more.
15:44One World Products, you guys have the hemp-based molded containers, right?
15:48And you're in the supply chain with Flexgate.
15:50And you guys are making the boxes for Flexgate.
15:53Flexgate, this is an automotive supplier, right?
15:56So they make all the parts, the doors that you see, and they supply it.
16:00And you guys are making the packaging that they're going to ship these things in, right?
16:03You're in the supply chain and you're moving hemp.
16:06One of the things I noticed in the release when you were announcing that you guys had the royalty payment, that you were moving away from the, you know, shift of going Colombian cannabis operations and going more into the packaging.
16:16Why the shift?
16:17What do you see in the supply chain as you're looking at opportunities?
16:20Well, we started out, you know, looking at hemp and growing THC cannabis in Colombia.
16:30The politics in the government was slow to react, so we put a pause there.
16:36But while we were working there, we were already establishing what we were going to do in the automotive space through the partnership with Stellantis.
16:44And you'll see a picture of me ringing the bell with Stellantis here, I think it was two, three years ago, where we announced our partnership there.
16:53And now we finally got to the point now where we've introduced the raw material into the automotive space.
17:00And the first entry was to come in and packaging.
17:03So you see our hemp containers now and our partner Orvis.
17:07Orvis is one of the biggest packaging container companies in the auto space.
17:12West Michigan is our partner and also Flexingate.
17:17You know, they make the bumpers and everything that you do in automotive that's outside on the exterior of the automobile.
17:23Flexingate is our partner.
17:25So introducing the raw material of hemp into this space.
17:30Now we have the opportunity not only to be in packaging, but the next phase is how do we get into the exterior of the automobile and also on the exterior of the automobile.
17:41Right.
17:42So we're working on.
17:43So making those parts using your solution with the hemp.
17:46Yes.
17:47Wow.
17:48And now every time that a package is shipped in the automobile space, you're helping the environment, you're reducing the carbon footprint.
17:56And with the electric automobiles continuing to move forward, like GM has a big push in EV.
18:05So your industrial hemp and our hemp going in the automobile, helping with the dashboard to replace the plastics, looking up under the exterior of the car with the brackets.
18:22So we have a chance to not only.
18:25How can I say it?
18:26Not only impact that market, but we also have a chance to be on every single car that goes out the door that's made nationally and internationally because of the product that we have.
18:41So in 2050.
18:43Right.
18:44You could be looking at a lot of cars driving around with the bumper that your your product, your solution possibly.
18:50If not the bumper.
18:52I'll have a product somewhere in that car, somewhere on that car, whether it's the plastic that you see on the dashboard, whether it's the and people may not know it.
19:00Right. Yeah.
19:01About 2050. Absolutely.
19:02You know, and and and so the owner of the Jacksonville Jaguars, Shaq Khan, Shaq Khan.
19:08Right.
19:09He owns Flexing Gate and he started out putting a jack in every car, a jack, just a jack.
19:18He was an employee there and then he went from an employee to an owner just with one product.
19:27Now he puts several products in the cars.
19:30Wow. And that's where we are. Yeah. Right.
19:32And it's like that's like that's the screw mentality and the screw mentality for me is that you look around the room.
19:37I tell people, what's the one thing holding everything together?
19:40It's the screw.
19:42Everybody wants to be the when you look at a car and everybody wants to be the transmission or they want to be the engine, because those are the two biggest things.
19:48And of course, they you know, if you're looking at it from a company standpoint, they make the most money.
19:52Yeah. But screws are the thing that holds everything.
19:55Why can't you make a lot of money on the screws?
19:57And if I can put one bracket in every car on every car, I'm good.
20:02Yeah. You know, it's like my father used to tell me.
20:04He said, he's going to say, Junior, I know you want all these fancy businesses.
20:09He say, but toilet paper is a good business.
20:12Absolutely. So it's two base. Yeah.
20:15Every day. Absolutely. I use it every day.
20:18Anything else that you look at? I mean, listen, there's cyber security, AI startups.
20:22I was just down in Houston at Afro Tech.
20:24And I know technology is a huge thing when it comes down to, you know, what the next generation of students, especially HBCU units are looking for.
20:32Cyber security companies, AI startups. What else are you looking at?
20:35No, I'm I'm I'm focused right now on I'm just two spaces.
20:41Champagne space and one world products. You can't focus on too many things.
20:47Yeah. And like I say, it's been 10 years getting Sherlon champagne to where it's at now.
20:54And now the shift goes to, OK, one world products.
20:59How do we move this? Because it's I look at it and I say, I got I got two companies.
21:07Both of them are billion dollar opportunities. And Sherlon has already got to that place where.
21:15When this partner come in, it takes you to the next, takes you to that billion dollar opportunity where now you can start executing on it.
21:23Yeah. Well, with one more products, it's the same thing.
21:27Now the focus is here and we have a billion dollar opportunity here now.
21:32So now you've got to manage it and grow it. And those who start at the bottom with us, we're on the ticker now and OTC and those who start at the bottom with us.
21:42Right. As this company grows. Next time I'm back here, I want to be, you know, ringing the bell for NASDAQ.
21:49You know, and you've uplifted my company from the OTC to the NASDAQ.
21:53Speaking to existence. Yeah. I've gone from I've gone from a penny stock to a four dollar stock.
22:00And once you do that, you know, sky's the limit. And that that that's my goal.
22:04It's it hasn't been done, you know, by a former player.
22:10So my my goal is to be able to to take that from the bottom, bring it to the top and, you know, have NASDAQ, you know, uplift our company.
22:19Absolutely, man. When you think about that again, you said it was a 10 year journey, right?
22:23Let's go even further back because people may not know your story.
22:26You grew up in Chicago, right? Your parents, your mom worked at Our Lady of Sorrows Center in church.
22:31Six brothers, two sisters. You were homeless at times.
22:34You talk about sleeping on the floor and your closet at times because it wasn't enough bed space.
22:38Right. Watching your brother shoot needles and do drugs. Yeah. Right.
22:42And having to go through all of that. Are you still in awe of the fact that you overcame that environment?
22:48Because most people born into that, as you know, you don't get out.
22:52I'm in awe of the second generation of my family that I was able to help.
23:00Yeah, because I spent all my MBA money cleaning up my family, laying the foundation so they'll have a chance to get out of poverty.
23:13So my nieces, my nephew, my kids, my cousins, I still have some that don't eat or living in hard times.
23:23But for the most part, the thing that I'm most proud of is that most of my nieces, nephews, when they go to the refrigerator, some food in the refrigerator.
23:37When they leave their job, they got a house to go to or an apartment to stay in.
23:44And most of them have either graduated from college or had two, three years of college.
23:51And to me, that's the success story, not what I've done, but what what my family is able to do now, because literally we were hanging on by a thread.
24:05If I don't make it to the NBA, honestly, I don't know what happens to us.
24:09You know, I don't I don't know where the Thomas family goes because we were we were that close.
24:15And, you know, drugs and gang banging.
24:21You know, I grew up with murderers like literally, you know, so.
24:26And every day you had to make a decision if you was going to go right or left.
24:33And you had to make the right decision, because if you chose wrong, you might not make it home.
24:40Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's and that's one of my favorite quotes when I was looking, listening to another podcast.
24:46You want you want so many of them. Everybody loves talking to you and so much knowledge.
24:49But, you know, what stood out is I spent my money trying to uplift my family out of poverty.
24:53And so you take your nieces and nephews and you after they're done college and you give them six month internships to work at one of your companies.
25:00Right. And it has to be free to work for free.
25:03And if they like it afterwards, then you guys will talk job and opportunity.
25:07But I like that, you know, as far as giving them that getting your money back, obviously.
25:11But, you know, when you see that formula, are you surprised a lot of other guys don't do it?
25:17Well, it's most people don't look at their family the way I looked at mine.
25:22Right. Most people look at what they're going to do for themselves.
25:27And in like, you know, Kendrick Lamar has a song, how much a dollar costs.
25:32Right. And for me, I wanted to invest not in myself, but invest in my family.
25:40And and when I look at my family now and when you say, yeah, they come to a place to learn how to work for six months, they have to work free to pay off that debt.
25:52But at the same time, they really learn in skills how to operate in a corporate environment.
25:59And then if you like it, OK, we can find a place for you to continue working.
26:05But if you don't like it now, at least you have the tools to go out in the world to compete and fend for yourself.
26:12Yeah. I asked you at the BLK summit to, you know, describe your career in one word.
26:16You said champion is nobody that can deny that. Right.
26:19Definitely a champion. But also went back and I looked and I said, you know, look at a time after you had done that championship journey.
26:27Right. You go back to 1994. I mean, you paid twelve point five million dollars to become a 10 percent owner of the Toronto Raptors.
26:35Right. That was an expansion team at that particular time. Right.
26:37You included a five year deal, which had you include, you know, run operations.
26:41But you were the only black NBA owner at that point. And the fifth one to run basketball operations.
26:48Right. What do you remember about that tenure? And is there anything you would do different?
26:52Because people may not remember that you were one of the probably the first.
26:55Were you the first? I was the first. The first NBA owner who was black.
27:00Of an international franchise outside of the United States. Right.
27:04And so when you talk about the NBA being a global brand now. Right.
27:10Still, the only franchise that sits outside of the United States is the one that they trusted me to go and start and run.
27:18And what I'm most proud of is to still standing today.
27:23There was one that started in Toronto and Vancouver and one in Vancouver.
27:27Vancouver is now in Memphis and Toronto is still standing.
27:31Never won a championship. Everything from the colors.
27:35Fervor is my favorite color. And, you know, you got to have the black and gold from the west side of Chicago.
27:41So we the colors are still there from the mascot to the cheerleaders.
27:49Well, I would say the dance pack. Right. We were the first to integrate our dance pack because most of the most of the dance teams used to be all female.
28:00We were the first ones that said, no, it's some brothers that can dance, too, that like to dance. Right.
28:06So we we integrated to dance back. And now when you look across the NBA, you see integrated all over.
28:13Yeah. And and we made a conscious effort to make sure that our crowd was diverse.
28:20And Toronto still today, when you look in those stands, it is still the most diverse crowd to come to an NBA game.
28:29In any other place in the NBA. And that's what we started.
28:33Yeah. Is there anything that you probably did not know that you picked up during that tenure that you still use today in business as far as me?
28:40Because you're you're running an operation at that point. Right. I had to make a tough decision.
28:47I decided that I would leave Toronto and come back to the United States.
28:56And that decision was based on, OK, if you stay, if I would have stayed there longer than five years, then I would have had to.
29:03I would have became a citizen and a lot of my resources and money would have had to stay there.
29:10And then the team was changing. I tried to buy the team. And had I had I been able and successful enough to buy the team, I would have stayed there.
29:20But the thing that I learned was it's not good being a minority owner when you can't call the shots.
29:29You know, when you when you have to put up the money and you can't run your own show, that that's not a good feeling.
29:38And I didn't I didn't like that feeling. So I the thing that I learned was that I always want to own and control.
29:48And if I and if I'm a part of, then I got to be a part of with somebody that I trust and that I know he or she knows what they're doing.
30:02Yeah. Well, when you look at the ownership's landscape today, right, what do you see?
30:05I mean, there's players all over. Dwayne Wade is a minority owner on Utah. Junior Brisbane.
30:10Right. The great junior business for the minority stake in the Milwaukee Bucks.
30:14Are you happy with the current landscape, even though Michael Jordan is not a majority owner anymore?
30:18So they lost their only black majority owner and they'll be losing their only black CEO and said Marshall, she's leaving as well.
30:23So issues still that the NBA needs to fix from a diversity standpoint and, you know, front offices as well as ownership.
30:29But when you see what you see today, you like where it's headed.
30:33I like where it's headed because we you still have a voice at the table.
30:37Yeah. So Junior Bridgman coming in, D-Wade being there, several others want to get involved.
30:45I like seeing that. The thing that I hope is not happening is that.
30:52They're putting their money up. But they can never get their money out because the ownership structure, if it's built in such a way.
31:04That that team gets passed down generationally in the family.
31:09And if you're not part of the family, then you just helping to pay the bills.
31:16So I'm hoping that, you know, they have clauses in those agreements where they call it a foot,
31:23a foot option where they can put it back to the entity and get fair market value anytime they want to exit or leave.
31:30Right. But if their money is just tied up and they can't get it out and there's no foot option,
31:36you know, then that money is just helping the majority owner pay the bills.
31:40And I hope you tell these guys this thing, you know. Well, some.
31:45And then they have advisors, you know, advisors. Right.
31:51Listen, moving ahead, man, as we wrap up, what do you seek in an entrepreneur in 2024?
31:58Like what is Isaiah Thomas look for? I mean, listen, you talk about you've been through it all. Right.
32:02Again, two time NBA champion, 12 time star, all star CEO of an international.
32:07When you're looking at entrepreneurs and they're pitching you business plans, because I know you get them all the time.
32:11What do you want to see from them and from their business plan?
32:15You look at the human being and you ask this question. Can he or she persevere through the bad times?
32:24Because it ain't always be good. Whatever projections you have on the paper look good.
32:30But it ain't gonna happen that way. That four or five year plan, it ain't gonna happen that way.
32:35Now, when the times get hard and they really, really get hard.
32:41Do you as a person have enough in you to get through those hard times?
32:48Because the one thing that's guaranteed being an entrepreneur and my my background is startups and turnarounds.
32:58So in startup businesses, the one thing that's guaranteed is they're going to be some extremely hard, difficult times.
33:06And do you have the perseverance to come through those times?
33:13You're going to cry at night. A lot of people are going to say no to you.
33:18You know, you're going to knock on a thousand doors and you're going to get a thousand no.
33:22Yeah. And everybody's going to tell you that you can't sell the champagne.
33:28You can't be in this business. But do you have the perseverance to stick it through?
33:34And and it may not come down to just capital.
33:39Right. Because most people will say, well, if somebody gave me the money, then I can do a A, B and C.
33:49But most of the time, ain't nobody going to give you the money when you that when you're that low.
33:53Yeah. They they only want to pick the winner when you're riding high.
33:57That's when they want to give you a whole lot of money. Right.
34:00But when you down here struggling, trying to make it, nobody trying to help you.
34:05Do you have the perseverance to really, like, yeah, rise up to where somebody can help you?
34:15Because when you're this low, ain't nobody going to help you.
34:17And when ain't nobody going to help you, can you help yourself?
34:21Is that what it takes to be a champion to perseverance?
34:23One hundred percent. And intelligence like the the game in the NBA.
34:29Right. It's not about skill and it's not about talent.
34:32It's a thinking man's game and all different sizes and shapes are winners.
34:39All right. This is a game that a 5-3 Muggsy Bogues could succeed and be an NBA player.
34:47Why? Because he could understand it. He could think it.
34:51This is a game where Mark Jackson, who couldn't jump really high, wasn't really fast, but he can read it and he can understand it.
34:59So he can make the game do what he needed to do.
35:03And the guys who can jump high, run fast, now real tall, they have genetic gifts that most of us don't have.
35:13But the champion can take those genetic gifts and combine it with an intellect and dominate.
35:21Got some students here, man, from Chestnut Hill College in Pennsylvania.
35:24Right. My where I grew up at, although I'm with the temple.
35:27Right. And they're here before my mom. I'm out of here.
35:30And I wanted them to ask some questions and they submitted to what leadership qualities do you believe are essential for success both on and off the court?
35:40And this is from Avery White, 2026, business and administration's management with a minor in accounting.
35:47Avery, thank you for the question. What leadership qualities do you seek on and off the floor?
35:50It all depends on what type of leader you want to be. Like I am more of a compassionate leader.
35:56There are some leaders who are are dictators in my way or the highway.
36:02So my my understanding of leadership, I inspire and I, you know, I want to inspire and get the best out of that person.
36:13So I would say compassion and understanding.
36:17And can I can I meet you in a place where you at and then inspire you from there?
36:24Yeah. Yeah. Another one coming. How do you prioritize and make decisions when faced with multiple opportunities or challenging?
36:31This is coming from Saco, Saco, Saco, obviously a good friend of ours.
36:36God bless his life. He died. So his name stood out. Business and another administration, business administration and management, a major.
36:43So how do you prioritize and make decisions when you're faced with challenges and opportunities?
36:48You you you look inside. Right. What what what are your ethics?
36:56What are your morals? What are your values? What what's driving you?
37:02And once you understand that, then a decision becomes easy.
37:07Right. And, you know, you I've been put in a lot of situations where.
37:14You can compromise yourself. Your dignity for money.
37:19Now, if money is your driver. And money is your measurement for success.
37:27Then you go in for the money. You may not sleep well at night.
37:31You know, those who compromise themselves, lose their dignity. You know, they.
37:36They have to do some things that, you know, you you're not willing to do.
37:39So it really depends on on who you are, what you are about, what you stand for, what your values are, what your morals are.
37:48And then you make a decision from that place. Yeah. President-elect Trump calls you up, says Isaiah.
37:55What advice do you have for me on how to level the business landscape?
37:59Right. Keeping in mind the black families in rural areas, because we obviously know rural communities spoke this past election.
38:05There's black families out there to keep that in mind.
38:07What do you tell President-elect Donald Trump about how to level the playing field for business?
38:14First of all, I would I would I would thank him for inviting me to the table.
38:19Yeah. And you got to go to the table at a conversation.
38:23And if if he can keep it at the kitchen table, how do we eat?
38:35Where can we work and how much we get paid?
38:40Those three things. Right. Food, clothing, shelter.
38:45Show me how we do that. And then from there on the business side. Right.
38:53Can you can you give us some. Some pathways in the system.
39:00That has systemically discriminated against skin color for so many years.
39:08Can you. Can your administration create pathways that we don't necessarily have to face this discrimination only because we have more melanin in our skin than you do?
39:22We are we are governed in a country right now, sadly, where.
39:30And I can't even believe I'm saying this. You're your skin color.
39:38The melanin in your skin decides the disadvantages or advantages you get.
39:47This is the crazy. This is the craziest thing that we live in. And we we talk about a far tie.
39:54But there are some systematic things in our country that's a far tie.
39:58And they like to quote Martin Luther King and say, you know, I don't want to be judged by the color of my skin, but the content of my character.
40:08But yet then we have to check the box. Black, brown, blue, purple, orange.
40:12Yeah. What are we doing? Yeah. Yeah. Hey, man, get you out of here on this.
40:17And I'll switch it up. Right. Because I always do the good, the great question because of Jim Collins's book, Good to Great.
40:22What is the difference between a good point guard and a great one?
40:26What will be the difference between good point guards and great point guards as we approach the midway point of the decade all the way to 2030?
40:35Because the game's changing. I'm sure by 2030, Isaiah LeBron is probably not going to be here.
40:39That's not going to be here. But the point guard position will remain.
40:42And you played that position, I think. And I admire your opinion on that stuff.
40:46What's going to be the difference between good and great point guards as we move forward?
40:50The difference is always, in my opinion, who's smarter. Right.
40:57The great point guards, they don't make a lot of mistakes.
41:02They scored a basketball when they need to score it. They pass it when they need to pass it.
41:08But they understand your scheme better than you do.
41:11So every time you make a mistake, I know how to take advantage of your mistake.
41:17So it's not from in basketball.
41:24People always talk about the sport from the neck down, but the game is really played from the neck up.
41:31That's right. The great players and the champions, they play from up here.
41:37And the good players, they play from the neck down.
41:41Yeah, that's a quick story. I knew it was the head.
41:44Not only talking to you, when I was covering the San Antonio Spurs and LeBron was with the Cleveland Cavaliers at that point.
41:49And I was asking the assistant coach of the Spurs to say, I want to run this high-low play tonight.
41:53He said, no, we can't do that. I was like, why? He says, because LeBron will read that and he'll just interrupt it.
41:57I'm like, wait, he's that? And I'm like, man.
42:01And so you've got to be smart in order to excel and to be champions.
42:04That's why you are, he is, and all the other champions are.
42:07That's the thing that always fascinated me about LeBron.
42:10And that's why I called him like the Einstein of basketball, because we all had great teachers.
42:16Like I had my high school coaches in the Hall of Fame.
42:20My college coach, Coach Knight, is in the Hall of Fame. Chuck Daly's in the Hall of Fame.
42:24You look at Michael Jordan, you know, Dean Smith in the Hall of Fame, Phil Jackson in the Hall.
42:29I mean, we had great, great teachers and educators. Right.
42:34Who is his teacher? That's right.
42:38Who taught him all this? He did. He came from high school.
42:42You just don't come from high school in the All-League and go to the NBA finals.
42:46Yeah. Hey, man, you you just don't do that.
42:49And and he went to the NBA finals with, you know, his cast wasn't that great.
42:55You know, he was covering that San Antonio team like, you know, I don't think LeBron James, he's been to what, ten finals?
43:04He's been to ten finals. And I can think of only four.
43:10Where he's been the favorite.
43:15Yeah, that's how good he's been.
43:18Can't get it. I mean, listen, man, the brother is who he is, man.
43:21You got to you got to give it up to LeBron James, probably the greatest player up until this point that's played it.
43:26And maybe we'll see another one. Maybe Ann Edwards could be from behind.
43:29I got to get his mental right. Maybe he'll be right.
43:31Somebody's coming. You can rest assured. There's always somebody coming.
43:35Yeah. Yeah. But for now, let it be known.
43:37Yes. Thomas was here. Appreciate all the time.
43:40Unknown to a known unknown to a known Zeke.
43:43Appreciate the time and good luck the rest of the NBA season.
43:45I know you got your work at NBA TV and I cannot wait to see the bumpers on the cars.
43:50Well, it won't be the bumpers. You finally have to look underneath.
43:52You have to look underneath the car. Maybe I'll see another cup holder.
43:55But for right now, it's just the packaging.
43:57We're going to deliver the bumper. Absolutely.
43:59There you go. OK, you can take this bumper out.
44:01Absolutely. That package is mine. Absolutely.
44:03Sustainability anyway is still good. Absolutely.
44:06Jabari here at the NASDAQ market site.
44:09Let it be known Isaiah Thomas was with me.
44:11See you next time.