We spoke to Ed Sheeran about processing grief after the loss of his best friend, going to therapy, and his new album "Subtract."
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00:00I've done a song with 50 Cent and Eminem where I rap on it not that long ago and if you were to go
00:06back into my school when I was nine and you know discovered Eminem for the first time and you went
00:13in and you were like which one of these kids is going to be on a song with 50 Cent and Eminem
00:18rapping in 15 years time no one would have picked me. I was like this tall, big glasses, had a
00:24stutter and ginger hair just not not a cool kid at all. All right, all good for you.
00:37Subtract is an album about grief, fear, depression, anxiety but hope. I think that's the best way to
00:43describe it and I think it's a mood. All of my albums before you've you know you have Shape of
00:48You sitting next to Perfect it kind of goes from here to here and this genre to this this this this
00:53whereas Subtract is just one mood you put it on and you're in the world and when it ends you're
00:59out of the world. Is it darker than the previous ones? Yeah I think just from where I'm at in life
01:05it's more adult you know I made Plus when I was I wrote Plus when I was 17, 18. It's a teenage
01:13teenage love album and I made Subtract when I was 31 and dealing with depression and grief and
01:20loss and fear so yeah it's definitely they're definitely more adult themes I wouldn't say that
01:26it's darker it's just what adults live. Does this album reflect in any way a part of your life?
01:33Yeah I think every single album that I've done reflects where I am at that point and I think
01:39I can't not sing songs that are about my life or write songs about my life because then I can't
01:44relate to them. I have to I have to feel something to sing it basically. Could you say that music is
01:48a therapy for you? Yeah I think well I think music is a therapy for for everyone I think writing
01:54music is more of a therapy for me because you get to put down thoughts and words that you wouldn't
02:00necessarily be able to say out loud like if you put a melody to something you can sing you know
02:06the darkest thing on your mind and it will sound beautiful. So do you think that people have to
02:12undergo some things to be able to write about them? Yeah I don't think any great album was made
02:19at a happy point in someone's life I do I do believe that I think that all of the great
02:23records are made from some form of tension in artists lives. Did the conception of this project
02:30help you with your grief? I'm thinking about the loss of one of your best friends of course did it
02:34help in processing how hard can life be sometimes? I don't actually think any of this has helped me
02:40process it because it just brings it all back up again so I'll tell you in a couple of years once
02:45once this is over. It's definitely good to talk about it's helped me open up to friends and to
02:49family and help friends and family who've you know gone through similar things open up to me so
02:53I do think it's a positive thing but I don't know whether it's helped yet. So would you say that
02:592022 was kind of a tough year for you in any way? It's weird looking back at 2022 because yes
03:06elements of it were really difficult but also like our second daughter was born and I went on
03:11tour and made a record and you know there's positives in everything but I think this is
03:15just adult life for everyone no year in someone's life is going to be perfect or bad all year
03:21there'll be you know light and shade in everyone's year this is like the main thing from living all
03:27of this stuff is realizing that everyone is going through exactly the same thing. You open up quite
03:32easily about mental health about the things you went through does it cost you as an artist to show
03:38your vulnerabilities? Yeah I think being open I wasn't really open before you know I would write
03:44songs every now and then and people would kind of guess but I'd never really admitted anything I
03:48think it was mostly going to actual therapy and being having to be open about it and talking about
03:53it and actually feeling better and then talking to mates and opening up to them and feeling better
03:58so I feel like the whole process of being open has made me in some way feel less isolated because
04:07I feel like if you go on the line and go I'm feeling this you can either be like embarrassed
04:13about it or feel that someone's going to relate to you and I've had like you know emails from
04:19all sorts of people that I've known throughout life that have told me stories that I never knew
04:24had happened to them since opening up yeah I think it's good I think it's good to be open and
04:29know what's going on in people's lives because as I said you just don't know you can be having a
04:33conversation with a friend and they might be going through the worst day or worst week of their life
04:39and if you're like how are you and they go yeah I'm fine like you don't know what's underneath it so
04:43it's helped me see that everyone's going through the same thing. Did you ever feel like I'm a pop
04:49star I don't have the right to complain? Yeah I think that there's a certain thing from you know
04:56I'm a super privileged man living in the world when I have things that happen in my life I kind
05:03of keep them to myself it's not something that anyone really wants to hear but you know there
05:08are certain things that we can all relate to being successful and wealthy doesn't mean you can bring
05:12back a friend that's died or you know cure this or no one wants to hear a pop star complain but I
05:18think everyone wants to hear artists be open about how they feel about stuff I think because
05:22otherwise no one would buy music. And about your best friend did it cost you to talk about this
05:28grief? I've shed a lot of tears for Jamal so um now is I'm at a point where you can kind of talk
05:34about it without crying but it's still like I don't know it's just a shame in it. Does Subtract
05:40conclude a certain chapter of your life? Weirdly no weirdly no I feel like I'd made an album that
05:46I thought was Subtract before Subtract so until that comes out I don't feel like the mathematics
05:52series is actually complete although you've got plus multiply divide equal subtract I feel like
05:58I have to put out this one that was going to be Subtract for it to be like okay now now I can move
06:04on. In your Disney documentary at one point you say that someone once told about you that guy does
06:10not become a pop star but that guy has become a pop star what would you say to those who did not
06:16believe in you at first? I've done a song with 50 Cent and Eminem where I rap on it um not that
06:22long ago and if you look at that now it's sort of normal because I've been a pop star for however
06:29long but if you were to go back into my school when I was nine and you know discovered Eminem
06:34for the first time and you went in and you were like which one of these kids is going to be on a
06:40song with 50 Cent and Eminem rapping in 15 years time no one would have picked me I was like this
06:45tall big glasses had a stutter um and ginger hair just not not a cool kid at all so my point is
06:54that if you feel like you are a like misfit cool that misfit kids that isn't cool uh it worked out
07:01for me so it can work out for you too. I was at your concerts yesterday. Did you enjoy it? Of course I did.
07:10My question is how do you manage to make your concerts so intimate so special even when there
07:15are 20 000 people in there? I think that over time the more music that I've released you
07:23earn the right sometimes to ask for people to listen. I've had 13 years of hit singles so you
07:30can sort of front end a show with big songs that people like and then if you put in something like
07:37Boat or Eyes Closed and go this is from the new new record and this really matters to me then
07:46people have kind of they feel connected to you because we've all had the moments at the beginning
07:50where we're all having fun and I yeah I started gigging age 15 I'm 32 now so 17 years of learning
07:57how to work a crowd I guess. Thank you Ed. Thank you.