“If you vote, that means you have an ideology.” Actor Anupam Kher opened up about politics, The Kashmir Files and more in this exclusive interview with Brut.
Category
🎥
Short filmTranscript
00:00Are we saying that we have won it?
00:02Or are we saying that we were nominated?
00:04No. It is a short list.
00:06You belong to a certain political ideology.
00:08My answer is if you vote, that means you have an ideology.
00:12And boycott Bollywood is to you a real phenomena or a paid trend?
00:18The point is, boycott anything.
00:21Some people without putting boycott Bollywood are boycotting the films.
00:26And some people, if the film is good, it will not affect your film at all. At all.
00:33Hi, this is Anupam Kher for Brute.
00:35Over 500 films and 40 years in cinema. Padma Shri, Padma Bhushan, Shri Anupam Kher, thank you so much for speaking to Brute.
00:42Pleasure. –How do you feel today when sometimes films are labelled as propaganda?
00:48We are in a world of social media now. We are in a world of coining words.
00:52We are in a world of blaming people for something or the other.
00:58And I think Kashmir Files has been one film which has been constantly called a propaganda film.
01:03My film Accidental Prime Minister which according to me one of the finest five performances
01:10if I have to think out of these 534 films was also called a propaganda film.
01:16It's part of the game. You have to be with it. You have to live with this and you have to move on.
01:22As long as, if I am bad in a film and somebody calls my performance bad, I will have to change it and improve it.
01:30If I know that I have done a good job and my purpose is not a propaganda or for that matter anything else,
01:35then I have to learn to ignore it. –But do you think it's become more difficult and convoluted for actors today
01:43where you have to wear your ideology on the sleeve and choose between the art and the films? –It's always been like that.
01:51You think it's always been… –It's always been like that. I think people who, it's like people lot of times tell me that
01:57you belong to a certain political ideology. My answer is if you vote, that means you have an ideology.
02:04If you, that means you are going behind that curtain and you are putting your stamp on a particular candidate.
02:11He belongs to a certain political party. And so, it's always been there. It's just that because we are aware of it now,
02:20because we, because of the social media, because of the thousands of news agencies. I am a trained actor from the National School of Drama.
02:28I am a gold medalist. I have done a one year course. I was a teacher. Very difficult for somebody to shake my roots as far as acting is concerned.
02:38So, when that can't happen, then they try to sort of frighten you with other things. They try to put your name and give it an ideology.
02:48But as long as you are a responsible citizen and not harming anybody, I think it's… –I'd like to ask you on just this,
02:58could you explain when you say they try to frighten you, are you talking about trolling, are you talking about labels, you know, what is it that…
03:06–Trolling was always there. –Okay. –It's just that on social media, when now there is a weird word, found a word called trolling.
03:12Ab mahalle mein bhi hota tha, when you were in a small town, if you were wearing better clothes, somebody will say,
03:18or his father takes bribes or something like that. Or patani kahan se paise laaya hai. So, one is used to it.
03:24When I came to this city, I got Saransh, when the people said, oh, he is ruined for the rest of his life, till they saw the film.
03:31Then they saw, oh, now he gets Dr. Dang, because he is friendly with… So, trolling was always there. –Okay.
03:37Only it was on your face or somebody around you. –Or somebody once told you, this is what he was talking to you about.
03:44But now there are groups, now there are trollers, which you have to learn. If you are on social media, you better learn about it.
03:50You are liking the fact. But for me, it's been a great learning experience. I learn so much from the youngsters.
03:56I learn so much from social media. And I use my social media to spread warmth, happiness, joy.
04:04And if I need to answer back somebody, I do that. –It's phenomenal that you have reinvented yourself on social media.
04:11When I say reinvented, it is still a fairly new medium, fairly quote unquote young medium.
04:18But with your Instagram, everything that you do out there, tell us a little bit about how did you think of it?
04:24You know, what was the thought behind it? –I don't carry the burden of being Anupam Kher.
04:29I don't carry the burden of this person who has done 534 films. I start every day with a sense of wonder.
04:37I think that's the joy of coming from a small town. Small town, you have that sense of wonder.
04:43Oh, my God! You have been to Shimla. Means if somebody stands on the road and looks at the sky,
04:49there will be 7 people who will stand behind him and look at the sky. There is a time for everything.
04:54So, I have not let that small town boy in me die down. And what makes me curious, I put it on thing.
05:02It's not, I do my, handle my social media myself. –You don't have a team who writes for you, does anything for you?
05:08No, no, no. Nothing, nothing, nothing. How can it, it will not represent me. It's my social media.
05:14I mean, it's like anything. I do common man stories. What inspires me, I put it on my social media.
05:23My mother is a social media phenomenon. –Yes. –Yeah. I mean, I never thought this will one day become,
05:29that she is, she does not know what is happening. She is much more popular than I am.
05:34But she is there. –We have many fans of her in our office as well. –Yeah. It's phenomenal.
05:40And how, when I decided to change my physical look, how I pulled out over there in your face,
05:47that okay, I have started doing strength training, I have started walking, my body is changing.
05:53Because I think somewhere I am not scared of failure. Because somewhere I am not worried about log kya kahenge.
06:02It is the phenomenon of log kya kahenge which stops you from reinventing yourself.
06:07Which stops you from finding your boundaries. Or finding your new horizons.
06:13It is, we are living on borrowed lives. I don't want to live on borrowed lives. It's my life. At least I am the original me.
06:23And people who pretend don't like themselves. I like myself. I like what I have done with my life.
06:30Being a, just a forest department clerk son, and I am talking about 534 films,
06:38it's you, the moment you have fear of failure, you restrict yourself. –What are some of the hurtful
06:46comments that have stayed with you or you have seen or are recurring? –Abuses.
06:50Abuses. Maa-bhen ki galiyan. It bothers me sometimes. Because I don't think anybody should be abusing somebody.
06:59Maa ki gali, bhen ki gali. And that sometimes bothers me. Otherwise, as I told you earlier,
07:08if something, somebody has written and it's true, I will try and change it. Because I may
07:12lie to the world, I can't lie to myself. If it is not, then it doesn't matter.
07:18Okay. Speaking of comments and trends on social media, hashtag boycott Bollywood is constantly in news.
07:27But do you remember what was the top trend yesterday? –No, I don't. –Do you remember what was two hours back?
07:34You don't keep changing and seeing the trend. You don't. I have had PR companies coming to you and say that,
07:42okay, so we will make you trend or the trend this film for three hours. For that this much is…
07:50I am not passing a judgment on people who do their job. But you know that that happens. –So, there is a paid
07:55trending bit is what you are talking about. That's the portion that you are talking about, right?
07:59So, I think it's part of life. You should just move on with it. –And boycott Bollywood is to you a real phenomena or a paid trend?
08:09The point is, boycott anything. Some people without putting boycott Bollywood are boycotting the films.
08:17And some people, if the film is good, it will not affect your film at all. At all. –You still believe that if it's a film,
08:27it's open in the theaters, people will go and watch it. –I think it will help them. They said just to prove them wrong,
08:34it's a great film, let's just sort of prove them wrong. It is always with work, only with brilliance of your work
08:42and your hard work of your work that you can suppress, kill, squash any trend. I just believe that.
08:51Some of the big budget films that we have seen… –Kashmir Files was, has still today been shunned by people,
09:01criticized by people. You talked about propaganda, the propaganda film. There was a jury chairman who called it a vulgar film.
09:09There is an eligibility of it being possible for an Oscar. That has been, some major newspapers,
09:18wires and thing like that have come up, said that how this is absolutely wrong. So, you live with it.
09:25We should not, how much can you worry about it? So, if there is a freedom of expression, we should allow people to have freedom of expression.
09:34It should not bother us. –So, you are saying there is a social media trend in reality and then there is the actual reality of what is happening.
09:41Exactly. Means one should be able, if I have done a bad film and there are everyday it's trending, what a film, what a film,
09:48but people are watching it. People within five minutes are starting, normal person is reviewing the film.
09:56He is sending in WhatsApp group, bakwaas film hai, ya kamal ki film hai. So, it's just because you are spending more money,
10:03does not guarantee ever, ever. It's not today. Since long, when Sholay was made, it was the biggest hit.
10:11When the same director, same team made Shaan, it did not do very well. Dida Re Yaar, somebody said,
10:18okay, let's make Lala Majnu, it will be Dida Re Yaar, the biggest dud. –Dud.
10:23I want to ask you on the allegations where some of the followers, and I am going to come on the Oscar,
10:29that's my question, the Oscar shortlist. So, of course, Mr. Vivek Agnihotri put out the news, you did as well,
10:35and there was claims that it was nominated for an Oscar, while then there were people who wrote that it's a shortlist,
10:41there are so many others, right, which have been, which are on that shortlist. I want to understand from you,
10:47was there like a reaction or there was a misunderstanding on it? How do you see the whole thing?
10:52It's on the website of Oscars, of the academy, that films, that these are the films out of which we will choose the films.
11:03Right. –We will choose. So, we were just saying that these are the films. We have made it to the list of people
11:09from where they will choose the film. –Right. –In my tweet, I have also said that it may not
11:14translate into anything. And everybody I have given interview to, I said this is just a shortlist of that film,
11:20which is put by the academy itself. Now, you want to call it shortlist, you want to call it eligible, you want to call it anything,
11:29but those 381 films from all over the world are eligible for consideration. –Consideration, yeah.
11:37Toh keh raha hoon ki sirf naam aaya. Why shouldn't one celebrate that? What is the problem in that?
11:43What is your problem with something like that? Are we saying that we have won it or are we saying that we were nominated?
11:51No. It is a shortlist. You can't wake up a person who is pretending to sleep. The person who does not like you,
12:00you cannot make him or her like you. So, they will continue doing that. But to sort of run a campaign,
12:08oh my God! Vivek Agnihotri ka dimaag kharab ho gaya hai. Anupam Kher paagal ho gaya hai. Aur yeh kaise likh sakte hain?
12:14Aapne kya bola hai? Aap website ke abhi bhi chale jao na. There is a very well-known, not well-known,
12:21there is a journalist who lives in America, who used to live in America, Indian journalist, he started this whole thing.
12:28Koi bhi picture jo America mein release ho jaati hai. Toh ussa sahab se toh hazaaron film mein uss list mein honi chahiye.
12:33That's true. There are so many that opened. Do you think the only 381 films released from all over the world in America or in LA?
12:40So, it's like saying that if you are applying for IPS exam or IAS exam and you have qualified in written exam, you should not celebrate.
12:47And why do you think, is it because of Kashmir fires that it's been singled out? Why do you think there is a…
12:54There is a, there are people who are not wanting to find the truth of Kashmir genocide to spread.
13:04Why do you think that? Why do you think that is?
13:07That answer can come only from them. Because it doesn't, they tried to hide it for 32 years.
13:13They actually did not let it come out and that includes politicians, journalists, people, influencers, etc., etc.
13:22And when the film came, they, before the film was released, they said it's a propaganda film. Before the film was released.
13:28Then before the film was released, there was a well-known director who said it should not go to Oscars.
13:34So, whether that person has seen the film or not seen the film, it is a material. But, so there are, you could make out.
13:41Varna, this Rishabh Shetty has also put that, that I am very happy that this film has…
13:48I am, the other people have also put that we are very happy that our film has been shortlisted.
13:53Shortlisted. They have used different words. Different words, right. Right.
13:57But if tomorrow, if now RRR has won Critics Choice Award. Right.
14:03And RRR has won the best song for Golden Globe, it's the greatest feeling for Indian cinema.
14:09Means, why and why shouldn't we celebrate? So, there must be obviously some problem with Kashmir files.
14:16I was the first person, one of the first person who to sort of tweet about that.
14:22Because I genuinely felt, wow, a song, Natu Natu, that the whole crowd is dancing on that.
14:29Because till now, whatever films that they acknowledged was about poverty of Indianness,
14:35about some foreigner who has made a film, whether it is Richard Attenborough or Danny Boyle, about Indian…
14:41About Indian, right. Western outlook. Exactly. This is the first Kalish,
14:47Hindustani film or Telugu film or whatever film, Indian film has entered the mainstream of cinema.
14:55Coming back to this Kashmir files, people who are going ballistic about and going,
15:02almost having a heart attack to sort of discredit Kashmir files. Kashmir file has made an impact.
15:10Whether they agree it, and I am looking into the camera and saying that, whether they agreed it or not,
15:16that they are denying the victory of Kashmir files to themselves. They are lying to themselves.
15:25Do you think anything has changed for Kashmiri Pandits after the film has brought it to light on the scale that it did?
15:34It takes a lot of time to notice change. Change is not in black and white. Particularly for them,
15:43maybe if you are saying that whether they have been given a place to live or whether they are changing,
15:49whether the killings are still going on. And not only killings of Kashmiri Pandits,
15:54anybody who is India sympathizer, anybody who is working in the police department,
16:00anybody who is working in the army from Kashmir, they are still being killed.
16:05So at least those people who are saying that this is propaganda, they should learn and brush up their history or geography or whatever they want to do.
16:13And the change that you are talking about, I think, we will, maybe your children or maybe my grandchildren will be able to tell you
16:22whether any change has taken place or not. It does not happen overnight.
16:27This time, there was a time when you were petrified to put a Tiranga anywhere from Jammu to Kashmir.
16:36On a Har Ghar Tiranga, you could see the flags all over Kashmir. Lal Chowk mein Kashmir khaira hai, that's a change.
16:46But if you are talking about Kashmiri Pandits in particular, I don't know.
16:50And the people who criticize the film, and I am not talking on the social media propaganda bit,
16:57but people from the Muslim community, do you think they would, you know, were upset with the film or felt something about it?
17:06What would you like to say to them? No, I think the terrorism has affected the Muslims most in Kashmir.
17:13Let's face that. That community has suffered a lot because the separatists always wanted their children to study in Delhi or in London,
17:24but wanted those children to not get the benefits of the infrastructure benefits that the rest of the country was getting.
17:33So, if things can change about the development of Kashmir, the things will change for them.
17:40Unke log mar rahe hain. It's not only, yes, Kashmiri Pandit genocide took place.
17:46But that did not mean that they did not kill any sympathizers who were with these people.
17:52And they are not upset. There are so many people who have, who are on social media, who have sympathized with Kashmiri Pandits, I am sure.
18:0340 years is what you have been associated and on screen in cinema. You have seen so many governments come and go.
18:12You have been part of the Congress era and you were an actor, the BJP era at this point in time.
18:18And you did mention in this interview that, you know, ideologies have always been there. But do you think as of today,
18:25have you seen this happen where actors and directors align themselves to the ideology which is in power at a particular time?
18:32Well, I think people in power in today had the guts to abrogate article 370 and 35A.
18:40Nobody in the 65 years did that. And I applaud this government for that. Because only if you are from Kashmir, you will discover what is that mean.
18:49It's not about Kashmiri Pandits. Article 370 and 35A also affected so many other minorities there.
18:57So, that I think we should acknowledge and applaud. –All right. And on the, on the movies bit, on the directors and
19:07artists, do you think they align themselves to, and I am not talking just about this government,
19:12do you think it's normal to see them align themselves? –In the beginning, anybody who votes is in alignment.
19:17So, it would prove in their choices of the movies and… –No, not necessary. No. –But that's my question. That's exactly what my question is.
19:26And it's a broader question with actors. –How can you decide about the alignment whether you want to do this for film or not? How can you do that? I don't think so.
19:34You don't think that exists? –No. No, that, how do, I am not nobody to comment on other people's part. –Right.
19:39But it will not exist in my life. I will not do films. I am an actor. I am ready to do. I have done Doctor Dang. –Right.
19:46I was a terrorist. I have played Muslims in so many films. I have played anybody else in so many films.
19:52I have played rich man, poor man, pandit. –All right. Moving on really quickly on RRR because I wanted to come back to that point that you had spoken about.
20:02Do you think South cinema is doing something different that Hindi cinema is not? –Well, they are doing something really phenomenal.
20:10And we should really really congratulate them. Because to give hits after hits on a pan India, this thing is fantastic.
20:21And we should be very happy because whether it is South India or aap doosra India, it's at the end of it an Indian cinema. –Right.
20:30And South cinema is larger than life but it is made with a certain amount of conviction.
20:39It is made with and they are brilliant cinema. Look at the success of SS Rajamouli.
20:47When you hear the masters of cinema congratulating him, it gives me goosebumps. It makes me feel very happy about it.
20:58I think, I think South, the regional cinema has always stuck to its roots.
21:06Their stories come out of its roots. Any film that you take. –Right.
21:12We are still have the hangover of West, aping, trying to ape West. We still have the hangover.
21:21We still try to be stylish. They are also stylish. –Of course.
21:25Climax of RRR was the most stylish. The most amazing climax was of Kantara.
21:31But their is believable. It's about earthiness. It's about Indianness.
21:37We are still influenced by Tarantino. It's a time to introspect.
21:47Thank you so much for speaking to Brood today. –Pleasure. Thank you.