In today’s episode of 'Scammed', Oneindia Anchor Riya inteviews Ms. Khushbu Jain, a seasoned Advocate at the Supreme Court of India and a Partner at Ark Legal who shares her expertise on navigating the legal complexities surrounding cybercrime, including data breaches, ransomware attacks, and social media scams. They also delve into the critical role of law in ensuring justice for victims and holding perpetrators accountable. WATCH
#Cybercrime #LegalExperts #CyberLaw #CyberSecurity #TechnologyLaw #LegalChallenges #DataBreach #Ransomware #IdentityTheft #SocialMediaScams #KhushbuJain #CyberJustice #OneIndia #OneIndiaNews
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#Cybercrime #LegalExperts #CyberLaw #CyberSecurity #TechnologyLaw #LegalChallenges #DataBreach #Ransomware #IdentityTheft #SocialMediaScams #KhushbuJain #CyberJustice #OneIndia #OneIndiaNews
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NewsTranscript
00:00How does that digital privacy works?
00:02Because electronic medium,
00:04things cannot work without taking the data.
00:06We're talking about AI,
00:07we're talking about IoT devices,
00:09nothing works without data.
00:10The Digital India Act will have
00:12a dedicated act which
00:14will deal with all kinds of cybercrimes.
00:16One dedicated legislation we will have,
00:18which will have definitions,
00:19which will have the kind of punishments that should go through.
00:21Just by after cybercrime.gov.in,
00:24there would be an automatic number,
00:27grievance number that will be there.
00:29At the very same moment,
00:31do not wait.
00:321930 is the number you need to call,
00:34if it is to do with anything
00:35which has to do with losing your money.
00:42Cybercrime is evolving rapidly,
00:44with criminals exploiting new technologies
00:47to target individuals,
00:48businesses, in fact, governments.
00:51From data breaches and ransomware attacks,
00:54to social media scams and identity theft.
00:57These cyber threats are challenging,
00:59not only for tech experts,
01:02but also for our legal system.
01:05Navigating the complex legal landscape
01:07around cybercrime is crucial to ensure justice
01:10for victims and accountability for the perpetrators.
01:14So, for us to understand the legal mechanism
01:17at play in the fight against cybercrime,
01:20today we have with us Ms. Khushboo Jain.
01:23She is a seasoned advocate
01:25at the Supreme Court of India
01:27and a partner at Arc Legal,
01:29a firm known for its expertise in technology,
01:32media, privacy, and business law.
01:34Thank you so very much, Khushboo,
01:36for joining with us on One India
01:39and taking your time out talking to us
01:41on this very important matter,
01:43which is the need of the hour,
01:44cybercrime and the legal aspect surrounding it.
01:48Thank you so much.
01:50Okay, so Khushboo,
01:53let's just jump on the first question.
01:56Can you give us an overview
01:57of the current legal framework in India
02:01for addressing cybercrime and how effective is it?
02:05Because, you know, in the face of evolving threats.
02:08No, so if you look into the cyber law in India right now,
02:12we have IT Act.
02:13IT Act governs a lot of,
02:15there are a lot of provisions in the IT Act
02:17with respect to crime utilizing digital medium
02:22that can be computer, mobile, or any of those things.
02:25Apart from the IT Act,
02:28which covers a portion of cybercrime,
02:30we have IPC.
02:31IPC, if I have to put it across,
02:33again, been renewed as the Bharatiya Sahita,
02:38Bharatiya Nyaya Sahita.
02:40Now, the Bharatiya Nyaya Sahita,
02:41which got implemented from 1st of July, 2024,
02:46specifically deals with crimes with respect to cyber.
02:51And it deals with a lot of things
02:53and give recognitions to such whereas organized crimes,
02:56digital mode, stalking, online stalking,
03:01threat to national security utilizing digital mediums,
03:06all kinds of things that you think of robbery
03:08utilizing digital means and modes.
03:12So if you'll see the new law,
03:14which has come into existence,
03:16does recognize the new age crimes that are coming in.
03:19But nonetheless, there has been a talk
03:21of introducing Digital India Act in India.
03:24That Digital India Act will have a dedicated act
03:27which will deal with all kinds of cybercrimes.
03:29One dedicated legislation we will have,
03:31which will have definitions,
03:33which will have the kind of punishments
03:34that should go through and so on and so forth.
03:36But nonetheless, in the absence of that as well,
03:38we do have laws in place in BNS and along with it, IT Act.
03:43Okay.
03:45If I talk about data privacy,
03:46which is again, a very critical aspect of cyber law.
03:51So how does Indian law currently protect
03:53personal data of people?
03:55And is there any scope of improvement in that also?
03:59Right to privacy became your fundamental right
04:02in the year 2017 via K. Puttaswamy judgment of Supreme Court.
04:06Since then, it is one of your fundamental right
04:09that you have something called as right to privacy,
04:11privacy in a digital mode,
04:13wherein you can call somebody that this is my privacy.
04:15And if somebody infringes, you can sue them
04:17because your fundamental right is a right
04:20given to you as a human right.
04:22But with that came the aspect that
04:24how does that digital privacy works?
04:26Because electronic medium,
04:28things cannot work without taking the data.
04:30We're talking about AI, we are talking about IoT devices,
04:33nothing works without data.
04:35You know, they need your data.
04:36And for example, you're utilizing technology.
04:39I would wanna call Uber,
04:41I have to give access to my location, right?
04:43So these services are also dependent on
04:46data that you provide,
04:47or, you know, it can be looked into
04:49as an invasion to the privacy.
04:51That's where Digital Personal Data Protection Act,
04:552023 came into existence.
04:57The DPDPA Act talks nothing,
05:00but it practically says,
05:01you, your data, you have the ownership.
05:04So I can have to give a explicit consent
05:07to all these platforms,
05:09all these service providers who are giving you services.
05:13You know, gone are those days that you don't know
05:14what's happening in the internet,
05:16who in the behind, let's say I'm browsing something,
05:18they have details of those cookies.
05:21If I'm giving, if I'm writing something,
05:23if I'm doing something, that data stays with them.
05:25So now you give them consent
05:27that you wanna take my data,
05:28take my consent, explicit consent,
05:31not the consent which is given by lawyers,
05:32which are like 30-pager, 40-pager of a consent
05:35and you don't understand what it is about,
05:37but a consent which is unambiguous,
05:40which is explicit,
05:42which clearly tells that what data are you taking,
05:45for what purpose,
05:46and who all are you sharing with?
05:49So you have an ownership to your data.
05:51Now, the second aspect that comes with that is,
05:54right to be forgotten,
05:55that you can erase your data.
05:56You can request that I wanna delete my data,
05:58which you have.
06:00You can recall back your consent.
06:02You can exercise right to nominate,
06:04that you wanna nominate somebody else
06:06in the event of death
06:07or in the event of incapacity of the mind.
06:10You can say that I wanna nominate somebody else
06:13who can take care of my profile or my data,
06:16for that matter.
06:17So now is where you have the new act,
06:19which practically gives you a lot of ownership
06:22and also put in a lot of obligations
06:24on all these data producers who collect your data
06:27and make them also understand
06:28that how exactly you have to move forward
06:30because whatever said done,
06:33one is the aspect of right to privacy.
06:35The second is, with this data
06:37is where a lot of crimes happen.
06:40The data is a key element
06:42when it comes to commission of the crime
06:44because if any cyber criminal has to orchestrate a crime,
06:47more the data, easier for him to orchestrate
06:49and make you fall prey for his,
06:52whatever the story it is.
06:54If that trust factor comes in,
06:56if he has more information to make you believe
06:58in what he's saying that he is,
07:00which practically might not be true.
07:01So for all the purposes as to privacy,
07:03national security, security of personal security,
07:06when it comes to financial security,
07:08we have realized that data is very important
07:10and that's where we have an ownership.
07:13Plus these companies have to have certain measures
07:16or obligations, which they have to keep in place.
07:18Measures for security in case of some mishap,
07:21they have to tell you that this data has been gone.
07:24Tomorrow if somebody calls you with the data
07:26and tries to cheat you, be aware about it.
07:29And obligations as to these basics
07:31as to take my consent, delete my data,
07:34update my data and so on and so forth.
07:36We are talking about data,
07:38but in this digital world,
07:40we leave our digital footprint almost every second.
07:46I am quite sure that not everybody goes through
07:50when an app asks you to give a permission
07:52and when we click on allow,
07:55nobody goes and checks what are the terms and conditions.
07:58So because digital world is evolving
08:02and it is evolving at a pace that there's no match to it.
08:06How do a layman person,
08:09because everybody is using internet, everybody.
08:13There was a time when there was just the youngsters
08:15or the educated ones,
08:16but today it has evolved to a level
08:19that even the uneducated ones have a phone,
08:23they have the access to the internet
08:25and they are out in the digital world.
08:27And they are, what do we say?
08:30They are very much in the proximity of being
08:36caught in such cyber crimes or fall prey to cyber crimes.
08:40So how to stay vigilant?
08:43How to stay alert?
08:45What are the basics that one can follow?
08:49See, that's what I was talking about,
08:51that these terms and conditions allow or do not allow.
08:54What exactly?
08:55That's where they're coming up with unambiguous
08:57kind of a thing,
08:58which has to be a one page or a two page
09:00or very clearly defined.
09:02It has gone to a level that the new act says
09:05that it should be 22 languages
09:07which have been there in your age schedule
09:09of the constitution.
09:10For the people, basics, if I want to know,
09:13it should be in the language that I understand
09:15so that I don't have to just say yes or no
09:17to the thing which I don't even know.
09:19Number one.
09:20Number two, if they take the data,
09:21which ideally they should have not been taken
09:23and they're not taking your consent,
09:24that's where they can be a 50 crore of a penalty.
09:27Up to 50 crore penalty that can be imposed
09:29on these companies.
09:30So gone are those days where, you know,
09:32you talk about such an opaqueness
09:33that they can really hide behind those languages
09:37and ask some data from you and, you know, do something.
09:40So that transparency and accountability
09:42has come with the DPDP Act.
09:43But nonetheless, apart from the act,
09:46the things which has to be done by us
09:47has to be done by us.
09:48And for that, point number one,
09:51be limited when it comes to sharing of information.
09:54I understand that we live in the age of infodemic
09:57and the fear of missing out.
09:58We have, all of us have it
10:00and we want to share everything,
10:01but you have to be a little vigilant
10:02on what you're sharing on internet
10:04because as rightly said by you,
10:06digital footprint stays.
10:08Data is here to stay and it doesn't get deleted.
10:10So be a little limited on what you're sharing.
10:13Be cautious of what you're sharing, number one.
10:15When you're utilizing, you know,
10:17you're in the internet world.
10:19Best is to have things downloaded from the App Store
10:23or from the Play Store.
10:24Do not go on venturing out things
10:25because there can be malicious things
10:27that can be attached to those platforms
10:29or, you know, those APK files
10:31or other things which you download on internet.
10:33So best is that at least have another layer of security
10:36that go on the App Stores only
10:37or Play Stores only to download some things.
10:40But the third that you do is understand
10:41what exactly is the data they're taking.
10:44It is very important that, you know,
10:45you understand what's exactly happening,
10:48whether the camera is switched on, switched on,
10:50switched off mode.
10:51For example, Apple has got a feature
10:52that if any way the camera is on,
10:55there will be that light that will blink.
10:57So be a little more on that part as well.
10:59So number three.
11:00Number four, when you go to any of these apps
11:06and you say, yes, I'm utilizing it for this purpose,
11:08read a little.
11:10Spend just two more minutes to understand
11:12that whether it is being utilized
11:13for any other purposes as well.
11:15Like, you know, with the Curiosity,
11:17there are voice AI apps.
11:18There are apps where, you know,
11:20you remember the age where,
11:22how you will look after 25 years.
11:24Yes.
11:25Everybody uploaded that picture.
11:26So understand what it is about
11:27and how it is and understand that aspect.
11:29Even when you're sharing somebody else's information,
11:31be a little more vigilant.
11:33Now, the next that comes over here is,
11:36let's say a lot of people take a loan online.
11:38A lot of people play games online.
11:41Be vigilant there also.
11:43That when you're taking the loan,
11:44when you're doing online trading,
11:45a lot of businesses are born online, right?
11:47You want to do trading online.
11:49You want to take up small loans.
11:50Those very small loans,
11:52we do take it online.
11:53Be vigilant that where are you taking from?
11:56Nobody can give you a loan
11:57if they are not registered under the RBI,
11:59under the scheme.
12:00We see that who those entities are.
12:03When you talk about trading companies,
12:06check it if you're doing trading
12:07with any of high returns,
12:08even when you've got three returns, good returns.
12:11You can't trust them
12:12because there will be a chance
12:13that sixth return, they will disappear
12:15if they've got a good card.
12:17So check out on SEBI website,
12:19whether that entity actually is registered or not.
12:21Because tomorrow,
12:22if something like that happens
12:23and they disappear,
12:24we are living in the world of internet
12:25where there is no presence.
12:27So to catch hold of them becomes impossible
12:30or very difficult.
12:31So that's where you have to understand
12:32that where exactly what you're doing.
12:34And if you're doing things like this,
12:36where you're spending money
12:37or where there is a chance
12:38of getting mishap like this,
12:42be little more extra layer of security
12:44by checking things from the authentic source.
12:47Very important.
12:48When it comes to now gaming,
12:50gaming also have some hidden pop-ups
12:52which keeps coming
12:53or they take certain data
12:54or they ask.
12:55When your kids are playing games,
12:57they ask you very small things
12:58to keep on going to the next level.
13:00Two rupees you have to pay
13:01and buy some stuff.
13:03And you feel it's okay.
13:05No, they might take your financial details.
13:10They might ask you that,
13:11okay, go to the next level
13:12and for that,
13:13put details of your mother's this, this, this.
13:15Put details of your house,
13:16click a picture of the door.
13:18And these are utilized later
13:19when it comes to ransom calls
13:22and things like that.
13:23You know that we are sitting over here
13:24or for that matter,
13:25digital arrest.
13:25You know, more the information with them,
13:27they know how to orchestrate.
13:28They said, we are standing outside,
13:29you know, the yellow door of yours.
13:31And if you step out,
13:32we'll arrest you.
13:33So you're very scared,
13:34but ideally they would have not been sitting
13:36in your jurisdiction.
13:37They might be somewhere,
13:37you know, far off in Cayman Islands
13:40and doing all these things.
13:41So you have to be vigilant,
13:42not just yourself,
13:43but your near and dear ones.
13:45Like if you have parents,
13:45you have kids,
13:46look into them also.
13:47That what exactly are they doing?
13:49What exactly are they,
13:50what's happening on those platforms?
13:52And you have to be very cautious nowadays
13:54when you're surfing internet.
13:56Not that you need to be scared of it
13:58because we are in digital India phase.
14:00We can't go back,
14:01but be a little cautious
14:03as to what you're sharing,
14:04how things are,
14:05what they're doing,
14:06utilizing that data.
14:07And is there an option to delete
14:09now that the option to delete
14:10has become,
14:11why not utilize that thing?
14:12Keep separate aspects
14:13when it comes to OTP coming in your phones.
14:17Have a separate options
14:18because if let's say some SIM cloning happens,
14:20SIM swapping happens to your phone,
14:22or let's say for that matter,
14:23if there is some team viewer kind of a thing
14:25or something else that has come up
14:27which is mirroring the entire thing
14:28which is happening,
14:29OTP comes in your phone.
14:31So that's where you can have
14:31that combination of things that,
14:33you know,
14:34let the OTP go to somebody else.
14:35Or if your elder ones are there,
14:36let their OTP come to yours
14:38so that even if they are hacked somehow,
14:40things can be taken care of.
14:42You can limit those things.
14:44Three,
14:45best thing that everybody should do
14:46when it comes to financial part,
14:48whenever you open a bank account,
14:50whenever you have a gateways,
14:52have those numbers
14:53feeded in your phone beforehand.
14:55Because tomorrow,
14:56if something has happened,
14:58those numbers should be readily with you.
14:59You cannot go on Google at that time and search.
15:01There can be a high likelihood
15:03that in the Google search also,
15:04the number that comes
15:05would be of the criminal only.
15:07So that's where you can have that precautions
15:08that have some things ready with you
15:11so that you can exercise
15:12if something happens.
15:13You have given a lot of,
15:15lot of information on this.
15:17I hope the people
15:18who are watching this right now,
15:20they connect and they understand,
15:21they take inputs also
15:23because it's very important
15:24for their own safety
15:25because digital world is very complicated.
15:29Having said that,
15:31my next question to you Khushboo is,
15:33what about the rights
15:34do victims of cybercrime have?
15:37Like if someone has fallen prey
15:39to any cybercrime,
15:40what rights do they have
15:43and what steps should they take immediately
15:45after discovering
15:46that they have been targeted
15:47or they've been falling prey
15:49or they have been,
15:50you know,
15:51duped out of some money,
15:52what can they do?
15:54Cybercrime.gov.in.
15:57I'll repeat again,
15:58cybercrime.gov.in.
16:01That's the portal
16:02by Government of India.
16:03You should go there,
16:04file a complaint over there.
16:05It's literally one paragraph
16:07of a complaint that you can file.
16:08You don't need any lawyer
16:09or anybody for that matter.
16:11All you have to put over there
16:12is what happened.
16:15You got a call,
16:15you got a message,
16:16you got this or you did this
16:17and after that this happened.
16:19Put that in a story,
16:21date wise
16:22and whatever you're saying,
16:23whatever evidence you have in that.
16:25Like for example,
16:26you got a WhatsApp message
16:27and then this happened.
16:28Click a screenshot
16:29of that WhatsApp message,
16:30put it across.
16:31If you have got like,
16:32then you have transferred the money.
16:34Put a screenshot of that details
16:36or that copy
16:38if you have a bank statement
16:39of that specific transaction,
16:40put that.
16:41If not, then you might get the message.
16:43Put that.
16:44Put the account number
16:45that you have transferred.
16:46So a few things
16:47which you have to keep in mind.
16:48These things,
16:49you just put it across
16:49and attach it.
16:50Once you do that,
16:51it will continue from there.
16:52Just by after cybercrime.gov.in,
16:56there would be an automatic number,
16:59grievance number that will be there.
17:01At the very same moment,
17:02do not wait.
17:031930 is the number you need to call.
17:05If it is to do with anything,
17:07which has to do with losing your money.
17:101930, make a call to that.
17:12Again, a helpline number
17:15of government of India.
17:16Call over there at 1930.
17:18Keep two things ready.
17:20The grievance number,
17:21which was there by cybercrime.gov.in
17:23plus what money has been transferred
17:26from which account
17:27to which account on what day.
17:29Because they will do that cross check.
17:31Once they do that,
17:32they are going to a level of
17:34securing your money
17:35or attaching the money
17:36which you have been transferred
17:37to these accounts.
17:38Because there can be an aspect
17:40that when you have transferred this money,
17:41this money has gone to some Ram's account.
17:43From the Ram account,
17:44it has gone to some Ibrahim's account.
17:46From Ibrahim,
17:47it has gone to some Sita's account.
17:49Now, when you go to Ibrahim
17:50or Ram or Sita,
17:51they practically no idea.
17:53It can be that it would be no Ibrahim
17:55or for that matter,
17:56there can be an aspect
17:57that the Sita doesn't know
17:58that there is a bank account
17:59or a payment gateway opened on his name
18:01and she doesn't know about it.
18:02So these are called as mule accounts.
18:04And they use these mule accounts
18:06to transfer the money
18:07and from there,
18:07it can go to buying of a gift card,
18:10buying of transferring that into crypto
18:12so that it makes it much difficult
18:14plus different jurisdictions are involved
18:16in the country and outside the country
18:18which makes it a little more difficult
18:19for enforcement agencies to work seamlessly.
18:22That's where you have to act very fast
18:24so that at the initial stage only
18:26from first, second, third, fourth,
18:28if they can block the money
18:29so that that money of yours is blocked.
18:31This is the part where you can freeze your money.
18:34Once your account is frozen,
18:36you will start getting SMS
18:37that this much money of yours is frozen.
18:39This much money of yours is frozen.
18:41Then you can file a small petition,
18:44this thing, a case in the court
18:46for releasing that money back to you.
18:49That's when it comes to your money side.
18:51The other side that goes is the complaint
18:54which you have filed in cybercrime.gov.in
18:56that goes to your nearest police station.
18:58Then that criminal thing that goes on
18:59so that they can catch hold of these criminals.
19:02That's a parallel thing can go on.
19:03But you need to have that security
19:05that the money which has gone,
19:06at least you're safeguarded,
19:07that your money, whatever,
19:08how much you can secure,
19:10it can be full amount,
19:11it can be half,
19:12it can be one-fourth,
19:12it can be three-fourth.
19:14At least secure that amount
19:15so that you're in a better position.
19:16That's with your financial crime.
19:18What cybercrime.gov.in,
19:20you have one more option
19:21that you can file complaints anonymously
19:23if it has to do with,
19:24let's say, harassment,
19:27if somebody's putting somebody's explicit pictures
19:29and you want to get a note
19:30or you're scared of sharing those things,
19:33you can have an anonymized complaint.
19:36You feel that your friend has been harassed
19:39or something is going wrong,
19:40you can make a complaint on behalf of them.
19:42So that's an aspect that is coming in to keep in mind.
19:46The other thing which people have to remember now
19:48is not just cybercrime,
19:49but I'm taking a step forward,
19:51women-related,
19:52that now you've got an option.
19:54If anything has happened
19:55when it comes to crime against women,
19:57you can request,
19:58especially aspects like harassment
20:01or stalking or rape,
20:02all those kinds of things,
20:04you can request that my statement
20:05be recorded from my home.
20:07No, you need not go to the police station.
20:10That's the new act,
20:11the three acts which have come up,
20:12the changes have come up in that.
20:14So you can have that as an option as well
20:16so that you're not that scared of societal pressure.
20:20And I have to say that,
20:21you know, gone are the days
20:22we have to move the society
20:23that we need to stop victimizing the victim.
20:25But till that time,
20:26at least you have that security with you
20:27that you don't have to be worried about.
20:29And I think complaint has to be done.
20:31Whether you have lost money,
20:33whether something has done,
20:34whether you've got little something,
20:36just go and complain so that
20:39it is easy.
20:41If you have not fall prey,
20:42you have somehow escaped,
20:43there would be 10 more
20:44who would fall prey by that guy.
20:46Picking up that guy,
20:47arresting that guy is very important.
20:48That's why you need to put a complaint.
20:50It's very important to put a complaint.
20:52Plus there are platforms by I4C,
20:56some stuff specifically like Chuck Shrew and others,
20:59where you can go SMS header,
21:01where you go and check SMSs.
21:03Like, for example,
21:04if you get a message from your bank
21:06that this much money of yours has been debited.
21:09And if this is not,
21:10you block in the tiny URL.
21:11When you click on tiny URL,
21:12after that your money's gone.
21:14So you need to understand
21:16that SMS header that comes to HDFC bank,
21:19something, or Airtel,
21:20or money, something.
21:22You can put that header on that SMS header dot checking,
21:26which is of Sanchar Bharti.
21:28You can check, put over there
21:29and check whether it actually belongs to them or not.
21:32Okay.
21:33So those things,
21:34there are some things
21:35which you need to keep handy in your thing to check
21:38that, okay, I can do this.
21:39Chuck Shrew is another portal by them
21:40where you can go and register things.
21:43You can block your phone numbers,
21:44you can block your mobiles.
21:46And once you get it,
21:47you can again unblock it.
21:49So that somebody is not misusing it.
21:50There have been instances
21:51where people's WhatsApp stopped working
21:54for next five hours or five days
21:56and against automatically starts working.
21:59But then I have had cases,
22:00trust me,
22:01where there has been an extortion call
22:04utilizing that WhatsApp number.
22:06And he says, no,
22:07my WhatsApp stopped working for five days
22:09or, you know, one day,
22:10but there's no way to prove that.
22:12And it takes a different time to prove it.
22:13So that's where be vigilant.
22:15If something like that is happening,
22:16if your phone number gets stopped working
22:17for unnecessary reason
22:19or your WhatsApp gets stopped working,
22:21be a little smart
22:22and just go and complain about that.
22:24So that tomorrow,
22:25if some mishap is happening,
22:26utilizing your phone,
22:27utilizing your WhatsApp
22:29or your phone number,
22:30things are being recorded
22:32and it can save that.
22:33Like you do your own part of the work,
22:36the rest the administration
22:39and the government is going to take care of.
22:41Right?
22:41True.
22:42You touched upon the point of cross-border also,
22:45you know,
22:46it becomes so difficult to trace that.
22:48So can you explain the legal challenges
22:51involved in the prosecuting
22:53cross-border cyber crimes
22:55and which is located outside India?
22:58Because mostly what I know,
23:00the cyber crimes are operated
23:02outside the country only.
23:04See, that's a very crucial point
23:05that you've touched upon
23:06and law practically works on the jurisdiction.
23:08We have difficulty hearing
23:09when it comes to different states
23:11in our own country.
23:12So imagine when you're talking
23:13about different countries involved into it.
23:15And this is something
23:16which whole world is grappling with.
23:17And this is a benefit
23:19which is this criminal took place.
23:21They think that, okay, you know,
23:22if I'm going to let's say steal
23:2410,000 of yours,
23:2510,000 of somebody else,
23:27for you, you will not go on
23:29complaining for 10,000
23:30and 10,000 they will go to, you know,
23:32some other country.
23:33Because let's say in some other continent,
23:35like in Africa or in Asia,
23:38some other place or somewhere,
23:40you know, far off.
23:41So that's where UN is coming up
23:44that they want to formulate
23:45something together
23:46where all countries
23:46who are signatory to it can come up
23:48and can have a seamless
23:49sharing of information.
23:51And the enforcement agencies
23:52can seamlessly work together
23:53so that in timely manner
23:56these criminals are being caught.
23:59And at the same time,
24:00the money flow can also be taken care of.
24:02And some other things which happens,
24:04illegal activities with respect
24:06to trafficking, human trafficking
24:07and so on and so forth
24:08can also be taken care of.
24:09So they're coming up with that.
24:11I think India is also
24:12a signatory to over there.
24:13And we are waiting that
24:14once that got done,
24:15we are in a better state.
24:16But now we do have things in place,
24:18but not the way it should be,
24:20not with the way numbers
24:21are increasing of criminals.
24:23And they literally sometimes
24:24go with very small, small numbers.
24:26So they do it.
24:27And that creates a problem
24:28for somebody to work on.
24:29So that's where I think
24:31I think the things have been looked upon
24:33and been worked upon globally
24:36where all countries
24:37are wanting to come together.
24:38But then we have a lot
24:38of bilateral agreements
24:40with a lot of countries
24:41where we share information,
24:42where we do those things.
24:43And, you know,
24:43those bilateral agreements
24:44work very beautifully.
24:46But with the pace
24:47and how fast
24:48this digital aspect works,
24:50we need that medium
24:51which UN is talking about.
24:52And let's wait and watch for that.
24:54Let's just hope that this comes into,
24:56you know, it gets enforced
24:58as early as possible
25:00because it is going to be a massive,
25:02massive crisis situation globally,
25:05not just in our own country.
25:07It is a huge thing
25:09because everything is interconnected.
25:10Everything is interrelated.
25:12Be it terrorism,
25:13be it human trafficking,
25:15be it drug dealing.
25:16Everything comes under the same basket,
25:19under the same basket.
25:20And it is huge.
25:22It is alarming.
25:24It is dangerous.
25:25It sounds so scary
25:27and threatening at the same time.
25:30I'll take one last question
25:31from you, Khushboo.
25:33Looking forward,
25:33what new legal developments or reforms
25:36do you foresee as essential
25:38for tackling all these
25:39cyber threats effectively?
25:42See, I personally have a feeling that
25:44because it's difficult for everybody
25:46to navigate in the Internet
25:47and so many options,
25:48like, for example,
25:49I was telling you about Chuck Stewart,
25:50I was telling you about
25:51SMS header and then something else
25:53and going to I4C portal
25:54and cybercrime.gov without portal.
25:56I would say that we can have one,
25:58one app which can be
26:00by the government of India
26:01where you have all these options ready.
26:03If I want to check the SMS,
26:05whether it is coming from the same,
26:06the authentic one, I can check that.
26:08If I want to complain for any
26:10number which is coming,
26:11I can complain, put it over there only.
26:13If I want to complain,
26:14a cybercrime thingy
26:15that can happen over there only.
26:17So one easy way of doing things
26:20can be that there can be one app
26:21and a one portal where all these things
26:23are readily available
26:25in a language where people understand
26:26that for this click here,
26:28for this click here, for complaint
26:30click here, for financial crime
26:31specifically do this
26:33so that it becomes easy
26:34for people to complain
26:35and things can go faster.
26:36But I know that how government is working,
26:39Ministry of Home Affairs has got
26:43cyber commandos and they want to train
26:44all the cyber commandos in each state
26:46and they're working a lot
26:47to increase the capacity,
26:49increase the capacity of forensics as well,
26:51mobile forensics, because again,
26:52this is going to grow
26:53because easier said than done.
26:56The problem that comes is
26:57catching hold of these criminals.
26:59Second, that comes is
27:00even if you're putting them behind the bars,
27:02because then electronic evidence
27:04plays a very important role.
27:05And there again,
27:06there is a huge problem that comes in.
27:07So we are increasing that capacity
27:09building is happening.
27:11But I feel that it has to be done
27:13more faster.
27:14And for that awareness
27:15and for the complaint system,
27:17there has to be something
27:18that can be done,
27:19which can be easy for everybody
27:20and anybody to understand
27:22and navigate.
27:24Right, right.
27:25Thank you so, so, so very much, Khusboo.
27:27It was such an insightful conversation
27:30that we just had.
27:31I mean, our viewers
27:33would love to see this.
27:34I personally enjoyed it.
27:37You gave us so important points
27:39and you talked about these apps
27:41and sites where people can go
27:43and check certain things.
27:46Thank you so very much.
27:47We really appreciate your time
27:49and your expertise.
27:50And we look forward
27:51to more contributions from you,
27:53you know, in the evolving
27:55realm of cyber law.
27:58Thank you so very much for joining us
28:00and talking to us on One India.
28:03Lovely, lovely talking to you.
28:05Thank you so much.