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00:00Our Chief International Affairs Editor Robert Parsons, Rob, the U.S. Deputy Secretary of
00:09State expressing, quote, grave concern the United States, which has some 28,500 troops
00:16permanently stationed in South Korea.
00:18Yeah, the U.S. is obviously very concerned indeed.
00:22As you said, it has a very large military presence there, but if you look at Camp Humphreys
00:26alone, the main U.S. military installation in South Korea, it's the biggest U.S. military
00:32installation outside the United States, 41,000 people there, including military and civilians.
00:39But even bigger than that, obviously key to the defense of South Korea against North Korea,
00:45but even bigger than that, South Korea, along with Japan, the Philippines, and the U.S.,
00:51form a critical alliance that the United States has been working on, particularly over the
00:56last few years, to maintain a balance with China, particularly in that part of Asia.
01:03So for them, this is very, very concerning indeed.
01:07Let's cross to Cambridge, England.
01:09Peter Han is doctoral researcher at the Faculty of Asian and Middle Eastern Studies at Cambridge
01:14University.
01:15Peter, how surprised are you by events unfolding?
01:20Well, this was very, very unexpected and surprising to me, as well as many others,
01:28not just in Korea, but also living abroad.
01:32We haven't seen this kind of martial law being imposed in Korea for more than 45 years.
01:38And to see this happening as of now, I felt as if I was watching a film.
01:48On top of it, there are reports of parliamentary aides staving off soldiers with fire extinguishers
01:56before that vote, overturning the martial law by the parliament, the opposition leader
02:02who's come out and said that anyone obeying to the orders of the martial law is breaking
02:12the law now and that it's invalid.
02:14So it's a confusing situation right now.
02:20It is extremely confusing.
02:22And I was just reading all the foreign media reports on what's happening on the ground
02:27level and found that even police members on the streets were very much mystified by what
02:35was happening at the moment.
02:38So this definitely has created a big confusion in South Korean society as well as its institutions.
02:48So if the police were confused, how much coordination could there have been between the president
02:56and the head of the military?
03:00I think there must have been some exchanges between the president himself and the martial
03:08law commander.
03:09But as well as from the sources that I gather, this decision to declare the martial law was
03:17made out of blue.
03:19So most of the chief of staffs within South Korea's presidential office had no idea that
03:25presidents would actually declare the martial law.
03:28So this would have been a very, very abrupt decision for many public officials in South
03:35Korea.
03:36There is a public broadcaster quoting the military as saying martial law will be maintained
03:44until lifted by the president.
03:46Your reaction?
03:48Well, that's the gray zone here.
03:52So according to the South Korean constitution, the article 77 mandates that if we have the
04:00National Assembly's passing of the resolution to nullify the martial law, that comes into
04:08full effect.
04:10But it has to be lifted and declared by the president that the martial law has been lifted.
04:15So we need to see whether President Yoon Sang-hyun makes it clear that martial law has been lifted
04:21or not.
04:22But from the fact that the police and the military, who once entered the main building
04:28of the National Assembly, have now all retreated, I think it's only a matter of time to actually
04:34hear the words from the president himself that the martial law has been lifted.
04:39What did he mean when he talked about, quote, shameless pro-North Korean anti-state forces
04:45and that that was the reason why he needed to declare this?
04:48Who is he referring to?
04:50Well, he's referring to those political opponents that he faced within the domestic politics
05:00of the South Korean National Assembly.
05:04Are they pro-Pyongyang, those opposition forces?
05:10This is my personal opinion, but I think that is a bit of a far-fetched view of what's happening
05:15within the South Korean domestic politics, because what President Yoon is most angry
05:24about at this stage is the fact that he could not really move forward with his policies
05:30and because of the blockades being made by the National Assembly, where the majority
05:36is now the opposition party, the Democratic Party.
05:40He even stated that there is a legislative dictatorship going on.
05:46So in that sense, I think we could probably assume that President Yoon's rhetoric is a
05:51bit harsh on those political opponents that he faced within the National Assembly.
05:57If I could just follow on question to what you were saying.
06:00It does seem as this is primarily, if not entirely, a politically motivated decision
06:06by the president.
06:07The legislative agenda has been completely stymied by the National Assembly.
06:13He's been becoming desperate.
06:15He hasn't been able to push through the 2025 budget.
06:18When he was elected back in 2022, he only won by the slimmest of majorities, 0.7 percent,
06:25I think it was.
06:27He's very unpopular in the polls.
06:30He's almost got nowhere else to turn to.
06:32So absolutely a politically motivated decision, though.
06:37I definitely agree with your analysis.
06:40And probably this is a political move from President Yoon to consolidate his base by
06:48calling upon very much ultra conservative South Koreans who would support him.
06:55But at this stage, I think that was a miscalculation from President Yoon's perspective, because
07:02this martial law, I think it crossed the line.
07:05Crossed the line.
07:06There are calls in the street saying arrest, the arrest, calling to arrest the president.
07:13So again, it's the question of what happens next.
07:17You're predicting that the military did not stop that vote from taking place and that
07:24what could follow is him recognizing that the martial law has been lifted.
07:29Then what?
07:31Well, if we now see that there's no more, there are no members of the police or troops
07:39within the National Assembly.
07:42So all we need to do at the moment is to wait and see whether the president actually lifts
07:47the martial law by acknowledging that the martial law has been lifted.
07:52What I could say, although this is a very much rapid developing scene at the moment,
07:59is that there will be growing demand from both within and beyond the National Assembly
08:05walls to see whether the president's decision to declare the martial law in the first place
08:11was a constitutional decision.
08:13And some constitutional scholars in South Korea have mentioned that the decision to
08:18declare the martial law in the first place may not be actually constitutional because
08:23whether the current situation in South Korea can be understood as a state of war or a state
08:30of massive public disorder, I think that's very much questionable.
08:36So we'll have to see and remain and see how the opposition politicians would react to
08:43this as well as the public opinion, how it swings.
08:47The opposition politicians, but also those of the president's party, because there seems
08:54to be confusion there, too.
08:57There was a confusion, but I think the party leader, Han Dong-hun, the leader of the People's
09:03Power Party, the ruling party, unequivocally said that this declaration of martial law
09:09is against the will of people.
09:12And he responded rather preemptively.
09:17And by making that statement, he's definitely differentiating his voice from the president's
09:23office.
09:24Peter Ahn, let me read you what Yoon's predecessor, Moon Jae-in, said on the social media formerly
09:33known as Twitter, saying, I hope the National Assembly will act quickly to protect our democracy
09:40from crumbling.
09:42In 2024, is South Korea's democracy under threat?
09:47Well, it's not just South Korea's democracy is under threat.
09:51I think the decay of democratic values that we see is not just a local condition of South
09:58Korea.
09:59It is a phenomenon that we see in other parts of the world.
10:03But I would like to point out the fact that the members of the National Assembly acted
10:08rather quickly.
10:09They've came back to, they've gathered in the National Assembly and put this martial
10:16law to cease to function within three hours of actually declaring the martial law by the
10:24president.
10:25So I still have faith in democratic values.
10:29And I think I've just witnessed that through how National Assembly handled this situation.
10:36Robert Parsons, it's interesting because what the developments unfolding in South Korea
10:41while here in France, we're combing over our own constitution because we may be in a situation
10:46where the government falls.
10:48And there's been talk of whether or not the president could evoke Article 16, which is
10:52an emergency powers clause used normally for times of war to pass a budget.
11:00And we're kind of, it seems like the world over, constitutions are being tested.
11:04Or is that just a coincidence of the calendar?
11:07Well, I think it's partially a coincidence.
11:09So there's no doubt, as our guest was saying, that all across the world at the moment, democracies
11:14are under threat going through difficult times.
11:17We see it in Europe, we see it in Hungary, in the United States with the recent election
11:22and the previous election.
11:24But I think it's a little far-fetched to suggest that the situation in France is the same as
11:31the situation in South Korea at the moment.
11:34Effectively, what we're seeing in South Korea at the moment is very close at this stage
11:37to an attempted coup d'etat, I would say.
11:40And I think we're a way off from that yet in France.
11:43I mean, of course, the big difference, Peter Han, Rob is right, is here in France, it's
11:50a question of how to get the budget over the line.
11:53It's not the question of whether or not the opposition and the media should be shut down
11:59like it is where you are.
12:04You know, South Korea's weathered other storms in the recent past, particularly when it came
12:10to bribery scandals involving the big conglomerates.
12:16Why is it coming to a head now?
12:22You mean the bribery scandals?
12:23No, just in general, why is the constitutional order being tested at this moment in time?
12:31I don't know.
12:32That's what other experts say.
12:34I have no idea why this came out of blue, especially on half past 10 at night.
12:41Nobody actually knows why this happened.
12:45And that's the common view of a lot of Korea voters at this stage.
12:50But I can say that whatever dictates the president's mind, I think he is ill-informed and made
13:00a really, really rash decision that affected the social atmosphere in a really, really
13:08bad way.
13:09One final question for you, Peter.
13:10We're looking at live images from Korean television there.
13:13And those images, again, I remind our viewers, it is now 2.20 a.m. in the South Korean capital.
13:21Have you been in touch with plenty of your peeps?
13:25Are they up and staying up all night, it seems?
13:29Well, some of my friends have been messaging me that, you know, I've heard helicopter noises
13:39in Seoul.
13:40And some of my friends were just asleep, and they didn't even know that this happened.
13:44And this is now case resolved within three hours.
13:47So that's how dynamic and unexpected the current situation is.
13:53Peter Han, so many thanks for joining us from Cambridge in England.
13:56I want to thank as well Robert Parsons.
13:59We'll, of course, continue to follow events in South Korea as they unfold and await, yeah,
14:05the president's response to parliament overriding his declaration of martial law.