Gadi Amit, Founder, President & Principal Designer, NewDealDesign LLC, In conversation with Nicholas Gordon, FORTUNE
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00:00So, Gadi, Gadi, welcome back to our Fortune Brainstorm design stage.
00:04You've been at our conference before, and I did my research.
00:07And at that conference, you shared some thoughts, maybe some mixed feelings about
00:14design thinking and how businesses think about the design process.
00:17Before we get into kind of the meat of our session, I wanted to ask you,
00:23has your thinking on this changed?
00:24Are you still kind of wary of how businesses think about design and
00:28design thinking?
00:29Yeah, I do, I did not change my opinions.
00:33I'm actually quite proud that I was one of the first critic of design thinking.
00:40Luckily, it's now kind of a has been.
00:44We are in a situation where, obviously,
00:47design thinking has been very forceful and very successful campaign.
00:53I do think that traditionally,
00:55they've been under indexing on design talent.
01:00And over-indexing on linear processes where designers
01:05are exceptionally talented in non-linear thinking,
01:12multi-channel thinking, where you could create ideas of products and
01:18systems that are beyond a specific process or something like that.
01:24I think nowadays, there is a greater recognition of these type of,
01:29I'd say, lackings on the design thinking side.
01:33And you've worked in design for decades.
01:37And I wanna put up some slides as I ask this question.
01:40But kind of over the years of working in design,
01:43I mean, has your design philosophy changed as we kind of move to our more
01:48tech-focused, internet-focused, AI-focused world?
01:52It's an interesting point.
01:54I actually would love to join Robert's comments.
01:58I think designers are great product guys, great system thinking guys.
02:04And the ability to synthesize multi-channel inputs
02:09into a coherent concept is really unique by designers.
02:13And again, generally, somewhat underestimated and
02:18very much in need today than, let's say, a few decades ago.
02:24So I think my practice has been more towards that high-level,
02:31strategic, if you wish, capital letters design,
02:35rather than the more traditional lowercase design.
02:39Most of the projects we get today are open briefs.
02:43So we are not being asked to round the corners, quote unquote,
02:47on concepts that other people created, but
02:49actually creating the concept that leads the venture forward.
02:53So let's talk about some of these new projects you're working on.
02:56And the first one we're gonna talk about is server products,
02:59these delivery vehicles that roam the streets.
03:02What was kind of your idea in kind of designing this,
03:07I'm gonna say, I'm using the word adorable, little vehicle here.
03:11Yeah, so first of all, it was supposed to be adorable because it needs to be in
03:15a city and cities in California started blocking these.
03:20And the whole emotional interaction between the object and
03:25people around in the street was so important.
03:28So we designed it for emotions, if you wish.
03:31And this was a big takeaway that now that we have
03:36intelligent things running around us, we need to create designs that are a lot
03:41more interactive, emotive, and approachable to humans.
03:47So in doing so, we started using this formula of EQ over IQ.
03:54EQ being the emotional qualities of the object rather than the traditional
03:58business thinking functionality or even usability.
04:02Or I gotta say, maybe social is the new ecological.
04:05We've done a lot of work in ecological.
04:08Nowadays, we need to push social thinking beyond traditional product thinking.
04:17So you'll see an interesting video here, which is the love and
04:21hate story of robots in the streets of Los Angeles.
04:25Austin, who did this to you?
04:29Austin, who did this?
04:32Why they do you like that?
04:35They steal your food too?
04:37Austin got robbed.
04:38Man, Austin's all messed up.
04:44What happened to you, Austin?
04:49Hey, better say thank you.
04:52This is the second time I've saved you, Austin.
04:56So there are haters and there are lovers, and it was designed for that.
04:59Actually, we gave them names because we utilized an MIT research that
05:04shows that when robots are named, they are less harmed.
05:09So the fact that this person is actually referring to it as Austin in the name is
05:14actually a wonderful- Is it really that easy?
05:16You give a robot googly eyes and a name and it's- Yep, it is.
05:20Unfortunately, it is that simple at this level.
05:23And the image next to it is very important because Serv was a design sketch.
05:29The name of a design sketch that became a product name that became a successful
05:32company, it's a spinoff, and they're now an independent company.
05:37They just went IPO, and they spun off Uber, and
05:41I think they're delivering about 2,000 of these this year.
05:46So somehow the formula works.
05:48But you're also now tackling problems that kind of,
05:51let's say primarily originate from the digital space.
05:55And let's just kind of zoom, oops, there we go.
05:58Yeah, so we do have a pandemic situation with apps.
06:03The stats are unbelievably bad.
06:06We're talking about rise in depressive episodes.
06:10We're talking about undergraduates with mental illness.
06:13And to me, the most horrific one is girls hospitalized with self-harm,
06:20where we have nearly 3x growth through the last decade, if you click forward.
06:28So yeah, and one of the things that we've done is an initiative called Booyah.
06:35It's led by parents of girls,
06:40athletic girls, cross-country runners.
06:44And we created a place for them to share their feelings, to feel comforted and
06:50supported, and to seek help by coaches and professionals.
06:56So we're dealing a lot with the adverse effects today of apps and
07:02the digital economy, if you wish.
07:05So Booyah is a web app.
07:07It's also possible to interact it with a mobile phone.
07:12And it's shown major effects in terms of supporting these girls.
07:19So the whole topic of mobile phone use has been very much in the news lately.
07:25I'm sure you're familiar with the Australian initiative to ban social app
07:29under 16.
07:30In the US, a lot of counties and school districts actually banned them.
07:36And we are actually working on really cutting edge,
07:40different technology solution that would allow us to really curtail this phenomena.
07:47These mobile phones are just too good and too addictive.
07:50It's like sugar, you need to be off it.
07:53Some of it is good, but beyond that, it's really a problem.
07:57Yeah. Move on to the next part,
07:58by saying like my old high school also just banned mobile phones on campus.
08:01Yeah.
08:02A policy change that's gone surprisingly well, according to them.
08:05But your next project-
08:06Not among the students, I'm sure.
08:09No.
08:10They say they're fine with it.
08:12Yeah.
08:13But moving on to the next project,
08:15kind of returning again to the idea of adorable robots.
08:19Yeah, so part of my mission, if you wish,
08:22is to really try to bridge the gaps between technology and humans.
08:28And part of that is doing experiments.
08:30So we created this initiative called Alto.
08:34We actually created robots and created a seminar,
08:38a place where the design community in San Francisco came to our studio.
08:43We had a debate with panels of experts.
08:46And there were people who were more into the utilitarian values of robots and
08:50some more for the emotional.
08:53We had a debate.
08:54We had actually votes.
08:56And a lot of people swapped their ideas about the topic.
09:02We intentionally brought two opposing objects, if you wish.
09:09And if you click forward, the taller one is called Brute and
09:14it's semi-functional.
09:17It has some utility.
09:18And the little guy, Iggy, is a completely emotional support pet, if you wish.
09:26And it's, click forward, and it's very cute and very lovable and
09:33has cute behaviors and the way it actually moves and asks for attention.
09:41And really has no purpose other than being your friend or your pet.
09:46So, by the way, all these are approved by engineering and
09:51we know how to make them and so on.
09:54Brute, on the other side, is obsessed with cleaning your home.
09:59Brute will run around, click forward, and next one, too.
10:05Brute is basically picking up litter.
10:07And it runs around and pick up thrown objects and
10:13bring them to a place where they could actually be stored.
10:18So, a very interesting debate, but experimentation is very,
10:23very important nowadays.
10:25How we interact with artificial beings is something that we're not used to.
10:31And one of the conclusions we had there, the acronym AI has been overused,
10:36I think, but generally, maybe we should start thinking about it in terms of
10:41approachable intelligence rather than, quote unquote, artificial intelligence.
10:46I mean, what do you think, I mean, there has been a lot of social debate about
10:50artificial intelligence, about it maybe replacing people.
10:52I mean, what do you think are some of the root causes of that unease and
10:56how would you account for that as a designer?
10:59I think there is major ramification for
11:04humans on political, business, economic, personal levels.
11:12But I think there is another fundamental element that we tend to underestimate.
11:16For two, three million years, we were the smartest kids in the class.
11:22We were the only really smart creature around us.
11:26And finally, we're about to meet other creatures that are just as smart,
11:30if not smarter than us, and it's a psychological crisis.
11:35So how do you approach a robot?
11:38How do you know whether the robot is going to pass next to you or
11:43pass through you?
11:44So we're dealing with this level of subliminal communications
11:49that are so clear to us as humans.
11:53But when these things start roaming around, we don't have that language yet.
11:58So I think there is a crisis there.
12:01So I want to move on to the last product you're going to show for us.
12:05And to kind of lead to this, New Deal Design, one of the most famous works was
12:09the Fitbit that helped kind of kick off a whole trend in wearables, and health tech,
12:12and fitness tech, and everything.
12:14You're working in that space again now, tell us some more about this next project.
12:19So Evive is a company that we helped getting off the ground.
12:23We obviously designed a device.
12:24It's an AED, it's a life-saving device that allows people that
12:31have an incident of cardiac arrest or whatever, stay alive, and so on.
12:35Many times, it's actually hidden in public spaces or in workplaces.
12:39So one of the main things they wanted to do is to make it
12:42a consumer product that everyone has.
12:46And what we added to that is the ability to share it online and
12:51become part of the first responding system.
12:55So the location of the device is clear, and to some degree,
12:58the ability or the will of the people who own it to run towards that.
13:03So the big thing here is really to create this
13:08network device that has a connection of the emergency incident and
13:14the device itself.
13:15And obviously, the social will of somebody to run across the street and
13:19save a neighbor.
13:19Mm-hm, and I believe, there we go.
13:23Yeah, that's a pretty poignant movie.
13:27911, what is your emergency?
13:50It's my wife.
13:51I've been shaking her, but she's not moving.
13:52I don't think she's breathing.
13:54Okay, is she awake?
13:55She's not responding.
13:56What do I do?
13:57Okay, my partner's dispatching an ambulance to you, and
13:59I'm gonna work on getting an AED to your location.
14:02I'm gonna give you some instructions for CPR, okay?
14:05Okay.
14:05Cardiac arrest nearby.
14:07Take this AED.
14:08Cardiac arrest nearby.
14:10Take this AED.
14:11Cardiac arrest nearby.
14:13Take this AED.
14:14Okay, I've located an AED.
14:20I have one nearby.
14:21It's on its way to you.
14:22Please hurry.
14:23Okay, it looks like the AED is getting close.
14:33Can you go to your front door and meet them?
14:35Okay.
14:36Power on.
14:36Stand back.
14:39Delivering shock in three, two, one.
14:50The device now is FDA-
14:52It is now approved.
14:53So it's already sold as an FDA approved, yeah.
14:56But actually, but I mean, so the-
14:58But I guess it really has been successful in kind of building
15:07like a community of people who are willing to kind of be good Samaritans and
15:10step out and respond to a cardiac arrest happening nearby?
15:14Yeah, I think they now have a lot of communities that joined, and
15:19there's always, as you see, a connection between the first responders,
15:23the 911, and people who owns these.
15:26And that's part of the system, quote unquote.
15:29And by the way, I mean, at the beginning, there was a fallback.
15:32The fallback was a traditional AED sales cycle.
15:35You own it because you want to have one.
15:38But they found out that people actually are good and
15:42are willing to share and are willing to go on the system.
15:46So that's a good thing.
15:50We have time for kind of a few more questions.
15:52If anyone in the audience has a thought they'd like to share,
15:55I'd like to ask, please raise your hand now.
15:57But before we do that, I mean, so
16:00how do you see design kind of progressing over the next few years?
16:02I mean, as there continues to be this social unease about tech,
16:06kind of how do you see design changing to account for that?
16:13So I think part of the problems we've had, and
16:17I think Robert touched on it, is that designers were relegated to some degree
16:22to more tactical jobs.
16:25I think designers really definitely need to raise their heads and
16:29play a bigger role in system and product thinking.
16:33And to some degree, counter the industry.
16:36Counter the industry, counter the money folks, the tech folks, and all that.
16:42And create alternatives that are thoughtful, that are making good business,
16:48but also making better society.
16:50So that's something that I think is very, very important.
16:54And part of it, honestly, I gotta say that it's even stylistically,
16:58I mean, we've been through a long period of time that people were into minimalism.
17:03I'm not sure minimalism worked that well today when we're talking about
17:07interaction with artificial intelligence.
17:10Maybe we need to be over-communicative, and
17:13you see that a little bit in these designs.
17:15So then what would your advice be to an up and
17:18coming designer that now has to work in this space?
17:20I mean, how would you encourage them to not think about their role quite so
17:23tactically?
17:24How would you encourage them to design in a way that heads off the social backlash?
17:28Is it really just a cutesy design?
17:30Is that enough?
17:31But how would you advise younger designers to think about this problem?
17:35That's a great question.
17:37I think there is a lot of complacency to some degree in design community and
17:43in the tech and business community.
17:45I think designers to some degree needs to take the role of the no bullshit,
17:49common sense people that are somewhat contrarian.
17:54They do it with civility, they do that with thoughtfulness, but
17:58they bring ideas that are challenging convention.
18:02And this is what I would advise every young designer, don't lose this edge.
18:06Keep it sharp, keep being contrarian,
18:09don't fear countering commonplace thinking.
18:15Very, very quick final question, just for me personally.
18:18Is the brute robot available for me?
18:21My house is a mess, and someone to pick up after me would actually be very helpful.
18:25Well, we had a hidden thought somebody would actually take it and
18:29make it happen, not in the near future.
18:32But I think the concept, for instance, we're talking about home robotics,
18:36we are dealing with this issue of maybe robots shouldn't do too many things.
18:42Just tell me where are my keys.
18:44All right.
18:45So that's enough.
18:46All right, with that fresh take on design and design and tech, I want to thank
18:50Gadi so much for joining us today and sharing what he's working on.
18:53Thank you very much, Nicholas.
18:54Thanks.
18:55Thank you, guys.