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00:00I cannot tell you how excited I am to talk about your shows, but since we're following comedy
00:07Marco
00:08Joshua and Shay decided we're gonna talk about Bluey
00:12Just a whole panel about Bluey
00:14We can do that right for 45 minutes. I think it's I think it'd be a lot more fun Frank. I mean, okay
00:19No, okay. Let's get serious
00:21First of all, congratulations on your incredible shows. I mean limited series when it ends. I'm like, how dare you I want more
00:28But
00:31Shay I want to start with you because
00:35It's on
00:37Fight night million-dollar heist is such an incredible
00:40Series story. I was like, I didn't know any of this and I love a good high show, right?
00:47you grew up in Atlanta, but you didn't know this either and it was kind of secretive but
00:53Talk about that. Like why was it such a secret?
00:57I don't know if it was so much a secret. The thing I've talked about before is a lot of these
01:03kind of localized
01:05kind of stories that are kind of lore and mythology specifically in
01:10Marginalized communities they tend to be like told orally. You're not gonna find it in a book
01:15You're not gonna find it on a message board. You're not gonna find it
01:19Generally in a movie or TV like it's these stories and there's a million of them. They're like they're passed down
01:26so for me, I
01:27I'm from that community. I
01:30Knew about the fight. I'd know nothing about the robbery. And of course when this comes on my radar
01:34I go home and I'm like talking to like, you know
01:38My aunts and my uncles and the people that in generation above me and every one of them like knew about the the robbery
01:44New people who were there. I
01:47Mean as though I think it's been talked about in like Sam Jackson who you know is in the show was at Morehouse
01:54He knew somebody at the robbery
01:57he's from Collier Heights like him and
02:00Like he got married in the neighborhood where chicken man's house
02:04Like it's it's again like he knew like Sam Jackson knew about the damn story, you know
02:08Nobody like these stories are just like they're very much like orally told and honestly, that's the way I grew up. I grew up
02:16Hearing those stories and that's probably what that's what led like me to hear was my grandma telling me some story
02:23You know or my auntie or my uncle like so for me
02:25It's a it's a it's kind of like a love letter and a testament, you know, obviously to Atlanta, but you know to those stories
02:32Can we give a shout out to Samuel Jackson who was just phenomenal in this series?
02:40Joshua I know you instigated it, but I'm sorry. We're not gonna talk about bluey
02:44We're gonna talk about your shirt all the shows and say nothing
02:47Which is you know as you can tell from the British accent I grew up in the UK
02:52Heard a lot about the troubles
02:55What was your way into this because there are so many, you know, it's just chase points
02:59There's so many stories so many different perspectives
03:02How was how did you navigate all the different?
03:07Perspectives that are out there to tell the story as a boy from California
03:12Yeah writing a show with
03:14You know Belfast dialogue from start to finish
03:18Yeah, which was you know, it was a huge research process for me a year's long research process writing writing the show
03:26and
03:27I think for me my you know my way in it's kind of it's kind of silly. I was
03:32you know, I I
03:34Grew up in a house with therapists and mental health was like always, you know, always something that was talked about it was
03:42You know, I think
03:45You learn I learned at a very early age to like use the
03:50Psychological lens looking at people and trying to figure out like why people did the things they did and
03:56sometimes that was great and sometimes
03:59You know
04:00It was slightly inappropriate like when I had my little league team like my parents sponsored it and it said like La Jolla
04:06Psychiatric on the back of our uniforms which made us like look like little mental patients like running around
04:12But and and my parents were very much like, you know, like parodies of like TV therapists, you know
04:18But in like a very sweet way and so, you know
04:21That's obviously like a world away from the people in Belfast that I was that I was writing about could not be more different
04:27total outsider trying to trying to write this this insanely ambitious, you know, Irish story and
04:34For me that my first job writing in Hollywood was
04:39Writing a job about writing a film about the IRA actually for Leonardo DiCaprio when I was like 27
04:45It was the first time I was ever paid to write. I was very very fortunate and
04:48You know
04:49The film never got made one of the producers on the film slipped me this book say nothing when it came out and you know
04:55I thought it was I thought it was incredible and
04:59I the thing that I was so fascinated by was the culture of silence that permeates the IRA
05:05And IRA misdeeds if you have violence done to you if you commit an act of violence you don't talk about it
05:12that's say nothing and
05:14What that does is it creates an entire ecosystem of?
05:18Unprocessed trauma for both the victims and for the perpetrators and as a kid, you know
05:23who who used a psychological lens to look at everything that idea that you know that
05:30You would have so many people who had all this unprocessed trauma because things they did or things that were done to them and they
05:36Had all of this inside of it that they just couldn't get out because they were not allowed to speak
05:41right, they were not allowed to talk about it for fear of being killed and
05:45That was that was what I was fascinated by, you know, I'm unprocessed trauma for both the victims of crimes and for the perpetrators
05:54Incredible I'm gonna come back to something you said later on but Lauren I'm gonna come up to you the penguin
06:02What a series, you know Collins phenomenal, but so is you know
06:08Kristen Milioti as Sophie like talk about
06:13Crafting that character because she was so fascinating to watch and to Joshua's point about mental health
06:17I mean, we'll talk about it later on but episode four where you really dive into
06:22That but what was that like to just take on this and this IP this this world
06:28Yeah, well, it was an honor. Honestly, you know, I got a call from
06:33Joey Chavez and Sarah Aubrey
06:36To see if I'd be interested in you know, what my take might be on a limited series starring
06:42Colin Farrell in Matt Reeves Gotham City, and this was before Matt's movie came out
06:46And so I was like, well, this sounds great. I don't know what that means though
06:50I don't know what kind of Gotham we're talking about and I don't know what this version of the penguin would be
06:55But I grew up reading comic books and I was interested
06:59in mostly in the idea that this would be a crime drama and I talked to Matt and he was so great about
07:07Character and that's where he and I connected
07:10that he wanted to spend more time with this guy Oz who's really an underdog in this version and
07:17Get into his psychology and he wanted it to be a character study and that to me was really exciting and so
07:24From there and I'm so grateful really gave me so much creative freedom to dig into
07:29Oz and where he comes from and you know, I just started asking myself questions about
07:35who this man could be and
07:37Why he is the way he is and if he wants power
07:40What does that really mean for him and I wanted to root it in his mother and his love for his mother
07:45And then from there just started to branch out like who else would be in this world
07:50I knew there was a power vacuum in Gotham as a result of Matt's film
07:53I knew there was there were these terrible bombings that created a flood
07:58And so I started to develop characters. So I, you know created Victor Aguilar
08:05And he was always a very important person to me
08:08I wanted a mentor-mentee relationship and I wrote I wanted Oz to kind of have his Robin
08:13In a way as well, but you know in the crime world, it's a lot about grooming young men
08:19And I thought that was really interesting. I wanted to give voice to people like Victor and then when it came to Sophia
08:27You know, she's the female character
08:29I wish I had I think growing up in a lot of ways and by that I just mean she's very complicated and she's very flawed
08:35and she makes
08:38Sometimes terrible choices, but you also can empathize with her and for me
08:42I care so much about giving empathy to all of our characters Oz included. I think you have to lead with empathy
08:49and for Sophia
08:51I was always fascinated by Rosemary Kennedy
08:54When what a tragedy that was to have this young woman
08:58who was put in a mental institution by her father who was extremely powerful and
09:03She was given a lobotomy at 23 and then her story is never told that's it
09:08And we have no idea really what happened there because that was so rampant at the time
09:13and so for me, I then asked Matt if I could have Sophia come from Arkham and
09:19I really wanted to tell a story about what it might be like to be a young woman who?
09:26is labeled and
09:28Treated badly and I kind of wanted the audience to be complicit a little bit
09:33Like I wanted to introduce her as a cipher and for everyone to think she's insane
09:37She's crazy because we're seeing her through Oz's lens first
09:40And I knew then that I wanted to flip it and we change perspectives quite a bit on the show
09:47But ultimately you hear her story and you experience it with her and I hoped that by doing that you started to see
09:54Her differently and you see Oz differently and then you start to wonder who should we trust on the show?
10:02Laura three women. Oh my gosh these
10:06The casting of that the story of the women
10:10It's so well executed
10:12and powerful
10:15I think to Lauren's point, you know again, we need women like more women like these on our screens. I wish we had them
10:21Grow, you know growing up to quote you
10:25What I'm fascinated by and we were talking about a little bit about this is how you crafted the character of America in this series
10:33Talk about that because in the book it's you know, it's detailed but visually what you did was incredible. Well
10:42Three women is based on Lisa today
10:44Oh is nonfiction book that chronicles three real women who are putting desire and their wants at the center of their
10:52Lives and kind of changing their lives in pursuit of their desire
10:57Which is in the show sexual desire to a large degree
11:01but also what they want their worlds to look like and so they are really rooted in their
11:07realities of where they live in America the location so it's
11:11Three different. It's Martha's Vineyard
11:13it's Indiana and it's North Dakota and what it's like as a woman to try and
11:19Exercise her agency to find her place in those communities is really different
11:24So getting specific about how we craft those
11:28Environments was really important and obviously we worked with our locations and our directors
11:33To really allow the locations to breathe to allow us to capture
11:38For example, we were doing some location scouting and there were these just this gathering of religious signs
11:46In this location that we were at that for Indiana was perfect that were these, you know
11:51God is watching kind of signs that was very reflective of the eye that the character of Lena kind of
11:59Self-imposes on her her own actions to a large extent. So it was finding those ways of visually in our environment to really
12:08externalize the internal of the character and and that having that
12:13Conversation between what the characters going through in that environment kind of kind of reflected visually
12:18But it was a big obviously a huge team effort with our wonderful directors and and location folks
12:27Marco la maquina Hulu's first Spanish language show. Yes huge
12:34Congratulations
12:35It yes
12:39I'm sure there'll be many more but you know, here you are
12:43So the box is really so incredible. What did you know?
12:47About the culture of
12:50Mexico City and the boxing scene because you
12:53Do what you you know, the story that you tell is so well done. I mean incredible casting too, but
12:58What did you know? And then what did you learn? I learned a lot. I learned a lot more than I knew
13:03I think I'd lived in Latin America before I am Latin American
13:07so I was aware of kind of the the culture where
13:11entertainment and politics and the police and corruption and
13:15Journalism and you know, I was aware of the the blurred boundaries that happen a lot in Latin America
13:19And and I'd written several projects that took place in the world of boxing
13:23I think boxing is kind of a perfect distillation of drama in a way
13:27every boxing match is perfect drama two people are coming in somebody's winning somebody's not and so
13:33I think those two things I knew but specifically the culture of Mexican boxing and that world and specifically the
13:39importance of boxing to a very specific generation of Mexicans
13:43Guilin Diego being kind of champions of this and really wanting to tell a story that took place in this world
13:49That was new to me
13:50and so that was a deep dive a lot of a lot of really smart people taught me a lot about about boxing and
13:55Specifically what the Mexican style of boxing meant which was a great learning curve
13:59You know, I'm gonna ask you about the prosthetic, but
14:02Which Lauren said Colin does not wear a prosthetic, but in the penguin that is all the body
14:09I
14:10Didn't I didn't think you could see it from here. It's sitting down easy
14:17You just who wore one no, where did the whatnot we know who what did the idea like at what point did that conversation come in?
14:25Very early like maybe the very first conversation I had with them
14:29So the story of the prosthetic butt is my earliest conversation about this show or with Guilin Diego
14:33Who had characters more than they had a story?
14:36They really knew they wanted to play an aging boxer and his very eccentric
14:41Manager, and so it was wonderful. It actually didn't feel like any TV experience
14:46I've ever had before just talking about characters first and
14:48talking to actors who wanted to play these characters and we all knew the only reason I mean not the only reason but a
14:53Large part of the reason the show was getting made was because these actors are very interested in it
14:56So every conversation we had about about character was
15:00Was was listened to by a lot of people. So yeah very early on
15:04Gael knew he wanted this boxer to come from a very specific place and it'd be a very specific kind of boxer and
15:10Diego knew I want to have a bunch of bad work done and I want to
15:15Be the kind of manager who has I even want ass implants man. Like I wanted I wanted good ass
15:21Was his thing so he sat in the chair for many hours
15:24I think it was like three hours or something to get the prosthetics on to get all the the bad work done every morning and
15:30But the thing that he talked about more on set was always like look at this bud dude, look at this
15:36You know for people who haven't seen that they're all gonna go home and watch it they're gonna binge it tonight
15:40I'm gonna be looking for it. I wasn't looking for it before but now I'm gonna be looking
15:43It's like the Snyder cut. We're gonna do just like a butt cut. We're all we're only using wides
15:48Definitely a tick-tock clip
15:50No one else's prosthetic butts on your show, right? Sadly. We have other prosthetics, but they're not mine's a period show
15:57So we didn't have there were none of that wasn't happening yet
16:00100% real on my show
16:03You see that, you know
16:06But you didn't expect that to be in the conversations I see I told you we can be funny
16:11What's you mentioned your department heads and you know as artisan editor?
16:16I love hearing about the work the collaboration that goes in with your production designer your cinematographer
16:23The costume designers like talk about the work that you had with your department heads to deliver the incredible vision and
16:31Visuals that you have on your show Shay. I mean, well just to start the way I was kind of trained and socialized
16:37Just like in film school. Is that all the department heads were involved in storytelling like they're part of story. So
16:44When we were making this specific show
16:46Yes, absolutely. Like we're making a period piece
16:50In Atlanta a place that I'm from
16:53and so there's even a more a bit a greater duty of care for lack of a better word that we
16:58Tell the story as authentically as possible because I got to walk around in Atlanta afterwards, you know
17:02so for me like
17:04Production like he had an amazing production designer Tony Barton who just crafted
17:09these it just like it was like literally walking into my aunt Hazel's house, you know what I mean or
17:16Just like these iconic places in Atlanta that were very specific
17:21and are very much revered, you know to Atlantans we were able to like recreate because
17:26She from the most early conversations
17:29And I only heard about with costume and with our show was like a costume or wardrobe a hair show
17:33And he's a black folk
17:34So you got to really like you got to come with it and be specific like in the 70s
17:39You know to me because like we weren't playing around in terms of the way we came in terms of dressing and style
17:44So it was very important that we that we knocked those details out
17:47And so for me those conversations happened very early on and it was very much about
17:51Them being involved in the storytelling process, you know, I mean if that makes you know any sense
17:58Lauren what about you?
18:00Honestly, my favorite part of my job is that I get to
18:04Watch all these amazing artists like just elevate everything that starts on the page
18:10and I mean that so sincerely like it's such a gift because
18:14You know our show it's like it's so built and every show is it's so built in the character and you know
18:20in our show specifically the character of Gotham City and making sure that that feels
18:24Real and grounded and honest in the way that we're depicting that
18:29But you know our characters also have an evolution and yet there's a little bit of a grandness about some of them
18:36But we never wanted it to be too much
18:39so across the board tone was so important and
18:42You know, I just our production designer Kalina Ivanoff what she was able to do with a post-flood Gotham
18:50And we were able to traverse so many different neighborhoods in the daytime, you know, we'd call it daytime noir
18:56You could really get a sense and feel of the city
19:00And we you know our show so much deals with class and wealth disparity and show so showing different neighborhoods
19:06just having that feel like a real a
19:08Real place and then Helen Wong our costume designer is so extraordinary
19:14I watched station 11 and saw her work there and it's incredible and then she just she won an Emmy for beef
19:21She's just so talented and you know
19:24Colin Oz is in a bodysuit and you have to fit him like he's a real man that that's a real body
19:31Which is its own challenge. I think she humanized Victor in such an amazing way of like
19:37Here's a kid who has been without a home for a long time and and literally peeling back different layers of him and then telling
19:43The story of when he gets new clothes and like what a kid like that would want versus a guy like Oz
19:49and
19:50You know Francis who has like just quite a personality in
19:54Her wardrobe and having her feel really unique and knowing that Oz comes from her
19:58So there's like hints of purple and little story details there and then there's Sofia
20:02Who has such an evolution with her wardrobe and hair and makeup?
20:07You know Brian body and and Martha Melendez are here and makeup team for her are so amazing to show
20:14Where she came from and evolve her feeling like she's in a you know
20:18as as Helen would say like a Chanel straightjacket in the beginning when you first meet her and
20:23Then to see her feel free and reveal her scars like all of those things were so
20:28so essential to the characters and so essential to the world-building and
20:33Johnny Han our visual effects supervisor. I mean I could go on and on and I will if you don't stop me
20:39I'm I love our crew and they make everything so special and so unique
20:44And without them it would just it wouldn't have that spark
20:50Laura yeah, I mean I too could just talk about my department
20:54It's forever. I came up through Chicago Theatre and Ensemble Theatre was ensembled. Yeah, Chicago
21:00An ensemble theater in Chicago
21:02and so the like collaboration is really at the dead center of what I
21:06came up doing and love and the ethos and so as
21:10everyone's saying to be able to sit at this table and look at this thing that we all are making together and
21:16To really trust people's expertise that because that is where they live and breathe
21:2224-7 they're gonna have ideas about costume about
21:26Set about props like Diana Burton our props
21:30head who's just a
21:32Genius. I said Lena's car needs to be like a reflection of like she's given up, right? She's given up and
21:41Diana came in with like the saddest color
21:45Greige you could imagine
21:47That you just look at this car and you're like I am now really sad and feel like my life
21:53I'm trapped in my life and it's that kind of ability to just like find the perfect thing that
22:00Says volumes when you're able to to watch it on screen
22:04It just delivers so much and our costume designer to just to say quickly because I too could talk about this for like an hour
22:10Caroline Duncan our costume designer you're asking about America and how how we you know
22:14did that and a lot was also in the clothes that these women wear and
22:17As a reflection as we're looking at you desire and sexual desire of these women of when they're feeling good about themselves and when they're
22:24Not and like the rural housewife in Indiana. What does she wear the woman that probably shops at like TJ Maxx?
22:30What is she wearing when she's not feeling in her body?
22:32And then what does she buy at Macy's when she's starting to like get it back, you know
22:36And then that contrasted with the character of Sloan who lives in Martha's Vineyard
22:41She has a catering company and she's absolutely stunning and knows how to decorate herself
22:46And in a way is so in her body is sort of objectifying herself in many moments
22:52like what does that woman wear and
22:54Finding like or building as Caroline did in certain moments like building the perfect outfit for that
23:01scene where she needs to be seen in a particular way that opens up this moment of
23:08Big section this big sexual moment for her it needed to be like a really specific thing
23:14So just getting to and also getting to witness that artistry. It's just like every day
23:18It's just like joy and a gift to be able to work with the people we get to work with
23:24Marco
23:25we worked with an entirely Mexican crew and so
23:30Every everybody on the team from the prosthetics just to start with them because of the but talk
23:36but to the to the art and and
23:38Sound and and the stunts on our show, right?
23:41It's every every department head was coming from kind of a cinema background
23:44a lot of them had worked with
23:46Some of the big three directors a lot of them in Mexico. A lot of them had had worked with Galan Diego before
23:51So it was kind of a who's who and and that was wonderful
23:54But our show kind of gave them each moments where everybody kind of got it was almost like a rock band
24:00Everybody got a moment to solo right there
24:01There were these kind of oners where that's where the DP really stepped in was like, all right
24:05The fight scenes or our show had a lot of karaoke in it and so the music and
24:10Choreography department which we had stunt and choreo
24:14That was that was a lot of fun
24:15so I just think the rock band analogy really for me as I think about it feels like
24:20Once in a while somebody had the time like okay, it's time for me to go in. It's tag me in. Here we go
24:24It's my time to shine
24:26Joshua what about you? Yeah, I mean
24:29The heads of the department heads of department make the show
24:31I mean in so many ways in so many ways like it's one thing to write a script, right?
24:36and if you write a great script and you nail the casting and you know
24:41You shoot the hell out of the show and you know, you get an amazing edit
24:45But like the music is wrong
24:46you're dead and if you get like, you know, you nail, you know
24:50You nail a script in the casting and you you shoot the hell out of it and you get the music, right?
24:55But the wigs are bad like you're dead
24:57You know writing a script one person has to do something great has to work at a really high level
25:03Getting a show to work making a good TV show 200 people have to just be delivering
25:09Day after day and we had we had a hundred and thirty five days shoot and we had two hundred and fifteen characters to cast
25:16215 speaking parts don't do that. If you're a writer
25:20don't don't do what I did like don't try to do the wire and
25:26Make a thousand like right. It's a bad idea. It's just it's too much
25:31And so yeah, you know if your ambition runs away with you
25:35you know, it means you're you're you're really depending on your heads of department just just so much and so
25:43The casting was was insanely rigorous for us for us
25:47I mean, I I was I was working with Nina gold who's one of the best casting directors in the world and
25:53Truly truly and you know
25:55We were trying to make sure that like IRA guy number three would be like authentic to the world of Belfast
26:00And so if his accent was wrong, like no like he was gone, you know and and you know
26:06We had a production designer. We had it, you know, we had a team of stars
26:09Honestly, we had a production designer Caroline story who created a back lot about I mean calling it that it was like a parking lot
26:16That she built, you know Belfast
26:19About an hour north of London
26:20We couldn't shoot an actual Belfast for the whole time because if you drive tanks down the street in Belfast
26:26you're gonna retraumatize people with the sound of the tanks like not get it not a joke and you can't
26:32film entirely on location in Liverpool for 135 days because they'll kick you out of town if you have you know,
26:37if you're driving tanks down the street in Liverpool for that long, and so
26:41You know and so, you know, we built this backlot and I was terrified because like I hate backlots, right?
26:47I mean they always look bad, right and
26:49And you know, then people from Belfast showed up and they had sense memories of being in being in Belfast
26:57you know for real and and and
27:00You know
27:01She just did such an incredible job and we did we did we filmed
27:04We filmed some of it on this on this backlot some of it in Liverpool on location and then and then some of it in
27:10Belfast as well
27:11And and you know, you kind of you kind of can't tell the difference and then we had our costume designer Jane Petri
27:17who you know had done the film 71 which is another great great film about the troubles and
27:23She was doing 50 years worth of wardrobe and she wrote a story for every piece of clothing
27:29She knew every piece of clothing. Did the person get it from their granny? Did they buy it in a shop?
27:34Like what was the narrative?
27:36There was I'll just tell one one quick thing just that she did I had requested that you know
27:42One of the characters who was like an like a
27:45Enforcer show up in a kind of tracksuit because that's how a tracksuit and sneakers because that's how he was described by someone as
27:52showing up and he showed up and he was in dress shoes and I said Jane and she you know
27:56She shows me the the wardrobe the day before the day before we shoot and I said not in like an aggressive way
28:02But just like Jane, you know, he was written this way. He's written this way
28:05Why is he showing up in dress shoes?
28:07And she related the whole thing to like a Stone Roses album coming out and how like before this album like men of his age
28:15Would have been wearing dress shoes
28:17But then after that came out the music would have influenced the fashion enough to like make it so he could wear sneakers
28:23Which was my mistake because I had no way, you know, no idea the Stone Roses said, you know anything to do with fashion
28:29and
28:30Yeah, so it was that I just I was just like bow down
28:33I'm gonna shut up and he can wear he can wear whatever he wants
28:37Such an insane detail, right?
28:41So this is a question for all of you as I said when I was introducing it
28:45You know when I watched every single one of your shows and it ended I was like no
28:50How do you know when when when this is the end? Like what is that?
28:57Note like that gut instinct says, okay, we were gonna do nine episodes. It's only six episodes. This is the end
29:03When the studio tells you you run out of money
29:09Not a joke
29:14Someone else go first
29:17You mean like how many episodes we were gonna do or just like what it's like in my case
29:20Like my was like a piece I knew like in terms of like the end
29:24But insert but in terms of like what there's like the end in terms of like the plot
29:28But then there's like what is this show about?
29:31you know what I mean, and so for me like
29:33Like the way I approach the final episode and I could just talk about the specific life for me like the Pinot
29:38I'm up an ultimate episode type person, you know what I mean?
29:41That's what I like to like, you know go up but like eight because we were wrapping up like real events
29:46but also wrapping up these characters what I
29:49wanted to spend half of a just really like getting into
29:53the psychology of like kind of like why all this went down like why this particular character made these particular choices and like what is
30:01Ramifications of it. So for me like in terms of like where it all ends
30:04That's what I wanted to do now that the studio always agree with that in terms of like them. No, not not really
30:10So yeah, you go out there and you shoot one thing and then they tell you like well
30:14This is all and so then you have to like figure it out. So for me specifically, yes
30:18There were there were there were moments where you are working within a certain framework framework of resources
30:24And you're trying to fit your vision into that framework
30:27I'm a penultimate. Sorry. I was gonna say I'm a penultimate episode
30:33Well for me I knew this was a rise to power story and I knew that by the end Oz needed to achieve a level
30:40of power and
30:41Knowing that and that was sort of my mission
30:45to lead him into the second film I
30:48wanted to make sure that it came at a cost and
30:51I really wanted this to be a psychological study of who this man is
30:55And so I mapped out when I was just breaking it for myself, you know
30:59Every character's backstory and I knew where I wanted us to end and I knew all the moments that take place in the finale
31:07that you know, he would dance with his
31:11Sex worker girlfriend dressed up as his mother. I
31:14You know spoiler alert. Yeah. Sorry. I guess I shouldn't have said that. I
31:20Mean I knew where he needed to be I knew every character's fate, so I'll keep that vague
31:26And it was essential for him as a character
31:31But I also felt like you knew who he was and I just wanted to make sure to put a finer point on that at
31:37the end
31:38But put clues into that
31:41Throughout but I did know every character's fate and so I I knew where we were going and it was really then about like oh
31:49How do we oh shoot
31:51how do we make sure it's great like how do we
31:54make this feel very alive and
31:57Thrilling and have you feel empathy for these people and want to go along for the ride for these characters
32:07No, I mean for me knowing the ending first, but I was adapting books I knew where it's gonna end right but
32:14Knowing the ending first and knowing knowing where the characters had are headed is absolutely integral to the story and really
32:21Informs, you know in so many ways like everything you're writing up until that point, you know, I I knew
32:28I knew in my story that without giving too much of it away. It follows two sisters who radicalize and join the IRA
32:36They're they're peaceful protesters. They start advocating for civil rights and when you know protest signs
32:43Don't work. They pick up guns and
32:45They're very much trying to change their young people idealistic young people trying to change the world who think that violence is the only way
32:52to do it and
32:53I knew very you know, I knew very much
32:57That it was going to be an arc from idealism to disillusionment, right?
33:01and that in the first half of the show you were gonna see the romance of radical politics with all the
33:07Excitement that that that meant for characters who were 20 years old getting swept up in a cause and
33:14I
33:16think that
33:18In the in the back half of the show you needed to see the cost of those decisions and you needed to see that kind
33:23of disillusionment creep in very very gradually and
33:27and
33:28so
33:30In the final moments of the show
33:32You know the two the two sisters are involved in this in this kidnapping, you know sort of loosely involved in this in
33:40Leading this this innocent person to their deaths
33:44to her death and
33:45You know
33:46you knew one of the sisters was more responsible than the other for it and you know that obviously like
33:51Informs that you know informs the characters that you're writing along the way and informs that informs the dynamic
33:57you know throughout the show and
33:59and
34:01yeah, I think that
34:03The other thing that helps is if you know
34:05You're having an emotional reaction to your own material at the end of the show
34:09you know if you're writing the last page of your last episode and you know, you're you know, yeah and
34:17You feel that thing in the back of your neck that really is like the reason you write, right?
34:21Like you're chasing this feeling all day when you write. I mean as any writer knows you're chasing like a
34:26Physiological response right where where your hair is standing up or you're like getting misty eyed or or something is happening inside you
34:34And that's like the reason you write it's like, you know, it's like a it's like a drug in a way
34:38It's like an emotional. It's an emotional drug
34:41And you know and if you have that that sort of feeling of catharsis
34:45In a big way, you know, it means you're done and just like shut your computer put down your pen
34:51There you go. Lots of writers in the room
34:54Marco what about for you? Yeah, I mean that's gonna be hard to follow those really beautifully put. Yeah, I think I just want to say
35:00I think the limited form is a real gift
35:02Because limited series would give us the opportunity to make a graceful exit and to not overstay our welcome
35:07And I think we've all we've all had the experience just to not compare it to TV at all
35:11but just to bring up a concert again, we've all had the experience where you're at a concert and there's like
35:14Oh, I guess the encore is happening. And then they're like one more and you're like, I want to get in my car
35:20But
35:21But I think the limited gives us that opportunity just be like leave them wanting more we're out mic drop we're done
35:27I and so I think yeah
35:29You captured LA so perfectly in that you're like, oh my god. This is the set list
35:34This is the last song if I don't get out of here. I'm stuck last question
35:39You know, we could talk all night
35:42Where can we find your shows Marco streaming on Hulu and Disney Plus in other countries love it
35:49Joshua
35:51Mine is on Hulu as well. It's an FX show on Hulu and then Disney Plus in
35:56Outside the US and I'm just so tickled that my show about Irish parallel paramilitaries is right there like next to Buzz Lightyear
36:06I'm gonna go and check that out in a minute
36:09Laura on stars
36:12love
36:13and Lauren
36:15HBO and max and just just because I feel bad because I shouted out so many department heads
36:21But I didn't talk about Mike Marino. Who's our prosthetics designer and without him this show cannot exist
36:28And
36:30I'm we on peacock
36:32And I mentioned I forgot to mention a lot of of my department our department
36:37It's anyone incredible and I will thank them personally and shout them out whenever I can
36:41Amazing well, you have a lot of TV to watch tonight. I want to thank you all so much for coming out
36:48Thank you to this incredible panel and I wish you all a happy award season and happy holidays
36:53And thanks to the team of variety for pulling making this happen
36:57Thank you, everybody