Barrister Aqeel says President Zardari's objection regarding FATF is absolutely correct
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00:00We would like to hear the government's objection to this bill.
00:08This bill was passed with full understanding from Maulana.
00:14No one can deny this.
00:15The government has shown that there are some difficulties in this.
00:19These difficulties have now come to light.
00:21Another side is saying that the number of applicants is this much.
00:26We want to be registered with education only.
00:30Barista Aqeel Malik has joined us in the studio.
00:33The first question is that the President of Pakistan says that FATF will be a problem.
00:37Attar Pradat, the Information Minister, says that there is no problem with FATF.
00:40Which of the two is true?
00:46First of all, FATF is a valid concern.
00:51I think technically speaking or legally speaking,
00:54there is a natural nexus between registration, education, documents, syllabus and so on.
01:04If we talk about Madaris, all these things are related to education.
01:10If we talk about FATF, GSP Plus or otherwise,
01:15terrorist financing is a big concern.
01:18If we talk about FATF, GSP Plus or otherwise,
01:25terrorist financing is a big concern.
01:27You have also seen that this issue has been going on for many decades.
01:33We have also been on the grey list.
01:37I would like to say that,
01:40in your intro, you mentioned that in the 26th amendment,
01:45their votes were based on this issue.
01:49Our legislative and competence in terms of legislation,
01:55of the Senate and the National Assembly,
01:57I will be very frank,
01:59in devolved subjects, after the 18th amendment,
02:02it is only up to the ICT.
02:04It is up to the territorial limitations of Islamabad.
02:07So, of course, this issue came under consideration.
02:10We can't force the provinces to legislate on devolved subjects.
02:14This is a fact.
02:16You know that after the 18th amendment,
02:18education or health has come under devolved subjects.
02:22Technically speaking,
02:27we are engaging with Maulana Sahib.
02:35I would like to clarify this point.
02:39I have previously passed on this to Atta Tariq Sahib.
02:41He is saying that,
02:43the registration of Madaris should be linked to FATF.
02:45This is contrary to imagination.
02:47He is the Information Minister.
02:49The President is saying that FATF is a problem.
02:52You are hinting at the same.
02:54So, you don't know about the Information Minister.
02:56You don't know about the President.
02:57There is no clarity.
02:58Please tell me about the government.
03:00Because you are representing the government.
03:02Tell me the final version.
03:03Look, the concern of FATF is a concern.
03:08Is the President right?
03:09To a greater extent, the President is absolutely right.
03:12I will definitely say that,
03:14there is a legal issue here.
03:18I have told you about the legal and legal matters.
03:21Atta Sahib's point is also correct.
03:23He has said that,
03:25the legal and legal issues are also there.
03:29So, they are both there.
03:31It is not that one is right or the other is not right.
03:34Both are right.
03:36But the first objection was that,
03:38the legislation should be done from the morning.
03:40I will ask Faisal Chaudhary.
03:41He is the Government of Tariq-e-Insaf.
03:43After that, when FATF came,
03:45when the President said,
03:46I didn't understand,
03:47why did Atta Tariq Sahib feel the need to say this?
03:49This creates confusion.
03:51It seems that,
03:52there is no connection between the President and the Information Ministry.
03:55No, there is a connection.
03:57Because he is saying something else.
03:59Obviously, the objections that have been raised and sent to the Speaker,
04:01I think, they did not go through his eyes.
04:04Because he is now out in the open,
04:06out in the public.
04:07Those objections have also come forward.
04:09So, his legal team,
04:12or the legal advice that the President of Pakistan has taken,
04:14these things were raised there.
04:16Because we have fulfilled our role in the Parliament.
04:19And in the Senate,
04:20and in the National Assembly,
04:22our commitment,
04:23neither did we deceive anyone,
04:24nor did we cover up anyone.
04:26I think, we definitely raised this at that time,
04:28that this is a devolved subject.
04:30Did you not convey to Maulana Sahib at that time,
04:34that FATF problems will arise for us?
04:36And you did not convey to him,
04:37that PTI,
04:38which is there,
04:39legally,
04:40his government will have to pass this bill.
04:42Because he feels that,
04:43you have come up with a surprise.
04:45I think it shouldn't come as a surprise.
04:46I think,
04:48I think,
04:49his legal team,
04:50Kamran Murtaza Sahib,
04:51knew this very well,
04:53even at that time,
04:54that when in 2019,
04:57in Imran Khan Sahib's government,
04:59it was brought under the Ministry of Education,
05:02and then more than 18,000 institutions
05:05are registered there,
05:06are regulated.
05:07Here,
05:08in terms of societies,
05:09of course,
05:10they had this,
05:11that here,
05:12and in Islamabad,
05:13how many institutions are registered?
05:15In Islamabad,
05:16how many institutions will not be registered?
05:18So,
05:19our legislative competence,
05:21looking at that,
05:22and of course,
05:23our understanding,
05:24this was clear to us.
05:25If we talk to Maulana Sahib's team,
05:27they say,
05:28you have done a trick.
05:29You knew,
05:30that at the end of time,
05:31it cannot be signed.
05:32We do not have these commitments.
05:33From the international community,
05:34there are technical,
05:35legal,
05:36violations.
05:37Because at that time,
05:38the 26th amendment had to be passed.
05:39You have listened to them.
05:40And now,
05:41you are making a fuss.
05:42No,
05:43not at all,
05:44Maria Sahiba.
05:45Regarding the joint session,
05:46there is a discussion going on,
05:47that there is an option for a joint session.
05:49On 17th, right?
05:50It has not been finalized yet.
05:52But,
05:53we are considering it.
05:54Because,
05:55legally,
05:56there is an option available.
05:57If the President of Pakistan does not do it,
05:59then,
06:00you have the other option.
06:01Or,
06:02they regret,
06:03that they will not sign it.
06:05And,
06:06it will not become a law.
06:07Then,
06:08we have that option as well.
06:09But,
06:10that is why,
06:11to the extent of ICT,
06:12we are seeing that,
06:13our legislative competence,
06:14and,
06:15I am emphasizing on this,
06:16because,
06:17we are really,
06:18the devolved subjects,
06:19Mr. Kamran Muttaza knows this,
06:20all the lawyers know this,
06:22in the devolved subjects,
06:23those who have moved to the provinces,
06:25after the 18th amendment,
06:26in that,
06:27our role of legislating,
06:29in many things,
06:30is limited to Islamabad.
06:32It is limited.
06:33So,
06:34if the meeting is on 17th,
06:35if the President is not signing it,
06:36then,
06:37in that meeting,
06:38can you table it,
06:39regarding the Madras?
06:40Yes,
06:41through a joint session,
06:42it can be done.
06:43So,
06:44is it on the cards?
06:45Is it being considered?
06:46Is it being worked on?
06:47See,
06:48now,
06:49absolutely,
06:50because we want that,
06:51there should not be any wrong statements from our side.
06:52Because,
06:53we did not make any wrong statements then,
06:54nor are we making any wrong statements now.
06:55So,
06:56Bilawal sir was dealing with all the matters,
06:57he was the face of the negotiation.
06:58But,
06:59he also went,
07:00no,
07:01no,
07:02but he also went,
07:03and,
07:04and had a meeting with Maulana sir as well.
07:05So,
07:06this is also,
07:07that Maulana sir,
07:08had a meeting with him as well.
07:09I am not privy to that conversation,
07:10which took place there.
07:11But,
07:12yes,
07:13from day one,
07:14we did not deceive anyone.
07:15We did not hide anything from anyone.
07:16Even then,
07:17we raised this issue.
07:18But,
07:19of course,
07:20we,
07:21absolutely,
07:22needed their support.
07:23And,
07:24they,
07:25they had this requirement.
07:26So,
07:27we did it at that time.
07:28Okay.
07:29Faisal Chaudhary sir is with us.
07:30Thank you very much,
07:31Faisal,
07:32for joining us.
07:33There are different questions,
07:34but first,
07:35I think,
07:36the issue of Madaris,
07:37the government's stance on this,
07:38they are saying that,
07:39this is a matter of the provincial government,
07:40because it has been devolved,
07:41and,
07:42there is some information,
07:43that maybe,
07:44there has been a contact,
07:45between Asad Qaisar sir,
07:46and Kamran Murtaza sir.
07:47So,
07:48they should try to get the law
07:49passed from the assembly.
07:50Now,
07:51this cannot be signed
07:52without being passed
07:53by the assembly.
07:54Is this your legal position
07:55on this,
07:56on the method of justice?