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00:00Next, New York prosecutors have announced new charges against the man suspected of
00:03gunning down a health insurance CEO, including a charge of second-degree murder as an act of
00:09terrorism. Luigi Mangione is also facing 10 other charges after the fatal shooting of Brian Thompson
00:16outside a hotel in Manhattan. The city's police commissioner also warns against what has been
00:22a morbid wave of appreciation and celebration of Mangione after the killing, particularly
00:28with regard to the U.S. healthcare system. Lauren Bershteker has this report.
00:36Already charged with murder in the first degree, Luigi Mangione, the man suspected
00:41of killing the CEO of UnitedHealthcare, will now be tried on terrorism charges.
00:47This was a frightening, well-planned, targeted murder that was intended to cause shock and
00:55attention and intimidation. It was intended to evoke terror. And we've seen that reaction.
01:02Mangione allegedly shot UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson as he was headed to an
01:07investors conference in midtown Manhattan on December 4th. After a five-day manhunt,
01:13the suspect was arrested in Pennsylvania, still in possession of the murder weapon
01:18and of a letter that denounced corporate greed in the health insurance industry.
01:23And while the 26-year-old's motivations remain uncertain, the killing unleashed an outpouring
01:28of anger against the U.S. healthcare system, with many sharing stories of being denied coverage
01:33or left with massive debt. Some social media users even portrayed the killer as a hero,
01:39setting up a fundraiser to pay for his defense, while wanted posters featuring other health
01:44insurance executives began appearing on New York streets. On Tuesday, the city's police
01:50commissioner slammed these reactions and warned against glorifying murder.
01:55Let me say this plainly. There is no heroism in what Mangione did. This was a senseless act
02:02of violence. It was a cold and calculated crime that stole a life and put New Yorkers at risk.
02:11Mangione is currently being held in a Pennsylvania jail and said he would fight extradition to New
02:16York, where he faces a maximum penalty of life in prison without parole.
02:24Well, as we've been mentioning, there has been an unsettling glorification
02:28of Luigi Mangione, with some calling him a 21st century Robin Hood. His actions have
02:33sparked a wider debate about the state of health insurance in the United States.
02:38Let's get more on this from Greg Shaw, who's a professor of political science
02:43at Illinois Wesleyan University. He's also the author of
02:46The Dysfunctional Politics of the Affordable Care Act. Greg, thanks so much for joining us
02:51on the program. Clearly, there's been a lot of anger and frustration with the US health care
02:57system. Give us your reaction to this morbid wave of appreciation and celebration of Mangione
03:02and this murder. Yeah, I think it's probably important to keep in mind if you take the long
03:08view that corporate greed is not a new thing. If instances of corporate greed were enough to
03:14trigger enduring social movements, I think we would have seen that already. While this is a
03:20horrific murder, planned as it was and so forth, I'm not sure I see here the makings of a narrative
03:29that will highlight this particular industry for sweeping reform. I don't think the culprit is
03:37quite that clear as some would think right now. So I think midterm, what we will probably see is
03:46more consumer upset about medical debt. But the fault for that goes in a variety of directions,
03:52not simply toward the insurance industry. Well, Greg, we'd love you to just explain to us some
03:57of the flaws in the US's health care system because, of course, the US is one of the world's
04:02wealthiest nations, yet it seems to be one of the weakest in terms of coverage in its health care
04:08system. Tell us why. That's right. So currently and for the last several years, we've had about
04:14nine percent of Americans remain uninsured with no health insurance. And, you know, they cobble
04:19together care however they can by showing up at emergency departments at hospitals with no
04:24particular ability to pay and so forth. And the system just has to eat that. So it's a long story,
04:30but it has an awful lot to do with the idea that there's a cultural element here that we
04:36in the US have nurtured this individualism myth, that we are all somehow, you know,
04:43individuals responsible for our own care. So that works against collective efforts.
04:49There's also a very inefficient public-private partnership that goes on around health care
04:55financing. So in brief, we have a lot of private providers who are profit-seeking,
05:02but who are paid through government systems that have very little ability to put downward pressure
05:07on prices. And so basically there are a lot of private providers out there who, you know, despite
05:12their ability to deliver really excellent care sometimes, are in it for the money for the most
05:19part. And government has very little ability to tamp down on that. So that's a big part of it
05:27right there. And we spend an obscene amount of money on health care. This year, the average
05:34American will spend about $14,000 on health care. And that's ridiculous given the mediocre
05:43health outcome data that we achieve as a country. Yeah, that's a staggering amount, Greg.
05:48Pretty much every developed country in the world is committed to universal health care.
05:54You spoke just about how the US has this individualistic stance. Is universal health
06:00care something you want to see coming in force in the US? Do you think it's even possible for
06:05the US to do that? Yes, I would love to see that. Is it possible? You know, it's sort of like
06:13achieving social justice generally. It's a little piece at a time. It's a long-term project. And
06:19we're gradually getting there. In the last decade, we've made a significant stride in that direction,
06:25you know, going from about 17% of Americans being uninsured down to about nine. But there doesn't
06:34seem to be much of an appetite for universal if by that we really need 100% of people covered.
06:41And that, again, is because of some of the incentives that are baked into our system.
06:46And, you know, the story of private insurance in this company goes back to the advent of the
06:50industry back in the 1930s and 40s. And so to take on that industry now and say we're going to do
06:58something like a Medicare for all or something like that universal that would wipe out the
07:05health care industry is to take on a multi-trillion dollar industry. And that seems, I won't say
07:12impossible, but certainly improbable in the near term. I think we'll continue to stagger along with
07:18a patchwork system that we have. And Greg, just a final word from you. Donald Trump is going to
07:24be returning back to the White House in January. That's likely to bring changes that could possibly
07:29scale back the US's public health insurance programs. Tell us about the impact that Trump
07:35will have once he gets back into the White House. Yeah, so that, you know, that administration,
07:40like the first one, will probably be an exercise in, you know, loosely controlled chaos. But,
07:45and disruption more than anything else seems to be his brand. I don't know that, you know, he
07:51even has the concept of a plan, as he would tell you about health care reform. But I think what we
07:57will most likely to see, rather than an outright effort to repeal the Affordable Care Act, I think
08:03you'll see a scaling back of assistance to help people take advantage of the health care insurance
08:10marketplace that the law created. I think you'll see a scaling back on various public health
08:15programs, perhaps prominently vaccine programs. And so I think that the core of it will, is very
08:21likely to succeed if for no other reason that we have literally tens of millions of people now
08:27who rely on that law to either get Medicaid, that is the program for lower income Americans,
08:34or subsidised insurance on the online exchanges. And so I think we'll see a slight notching down
08:40of enrolment because government will do less, this administration will do less to help people
08:46see their way clearer. But I would be surprised if the administration takes on the fight of trying
08:51to repeal the law outright, given how embedded it is. Greg, great to talk to you. Thanks so much for
08:57giving us your insight there. That's Greg Shaw, who is a professor of political science and also
09:01the author of The Dysfunctional Politics of the Affordable Care Act. Thanks so much, Greg.
09:07Let us move on because it's time.