NME, Pete Doherty (and his dog Gladys) sit down to look over a huge comeback year, where The Libertines icon tells us about family life, his record label, the battle for new music, the return of Babyshambles, impersonating Radiohead, and what 2025 has in store
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00:00I'm not a dog person. He is a dog person
00:02He just he just doesn't like to be have his groin nozzled in his sleep at night at least
00:06At least at least not by Gladys
00:16Hi, I'm Andrew Trendle you're watching NME. We're here today with Peter Doherty. This is Gladys. Good afternoon
00:22Merry Christmas and Merry Christmas to you Andrew. Thank you. You feeling festive?
00:26Yeah
00:28Yeah, I suppose so, you know, we've got the babby and
00:32And we're you know, we're gonna be spending Christmas with the family
00:35So it's all around the tree and the stuffing and I get you know, I get into all that
00:41Anyway, I think you know, it's nice to see order, you know, just like pottering about London today
00:48Between promo jobs seeing all the office parties having their
00:52Having their Christmas do's everyone letting their hair down and their guard down maybe
00:56Advancing a crash nanny. Yeah. No, he's invited over. Do you know I mean for a few?
01:00Few drunken selfies not me drunk by the way the office parties, but it's interesting
01:07I think it does it is one of the last things now in this dissipating
01:13Society we live in these end times is one of the things that brings out the better side of people
01:18you know that idea of peace on earth is obviously null and void this year, but I
01:25Think goodwill
01:27It's something that I don't I don't see it as a corny or cliche thing. I believe in community
01:31I believe in charity and I believe in goodwill
01:35Up to a point and so this coming together for whatever reason, you know
01:40It helps break that break down borders, you know of all kinds, you know, I mean at heart
01:45it's obviously it's a Christian festival, but
01:48It's not really is it it's more than that. It's a time of giving and communion
01:53in lots of different ways, so yes, I am feeling a bit festive and
01:59And I'm looking forward to having a bit of bit of time also it's been a long old slog this year. Yeah
02:07We had the obviously we had the Libertines album come out I
02:11Think I'm right. I'm saying in March. Yeah, it's been a long year and it was commercially successful
02:17so everyone was buzzing about that, but at the same time the band seemed to come together and
02:23But as a band as a musical force, we've had moments of right of unity probably unparalleled but as mates
02:31Just as mates and as a family. I think it was a
02:36Us our best time really yeah, we spoke if Carl described it is
02:42The first time you were all truly facing in the same direction
02:46Did that kind of continue into the tour of harmony a lot of goodwill?
02:50Yeah
02:52Yeah, I mean there was a certain point
02:54I'm obviously glad this comes everywhere with me
02:55But I do have another dog and at a certain point when he came on tour I was actually banned from the band bus
03:03One baby a wife and two dogs was too much. So I was put on the crew bus with but you know what the crew buses
03:10You can swear an enemy. Yeah, pretty boss. The crew bus is fucking cool place to be and
03:15I don't want them to be any place. They're not welcome. Yeah, it wasn't they're not welcome
03:19She said she likes to she likes to know where she is
03:22So she'll have a little sniff around at night to see and who's bunk and that was too much
03:26that was too much for Carl, but
03:29I'm not a dog person. He is a dog person
03:31He just he just doesn't like to be have his groin nozzled in his sleep at night at least
03:35No, I've heard at least at least not by Gladys
03:39Yeah
03:41Yeah, but Christmas is approaching and the end of the year we're now a
03:48Quarter of the way through the 21st century in the year 2000. Where did you imagine you'd be in 25 years time?
03:54Did you think you'd still be a libertine? Did you think you'd be a father? Did you see what how did you foresee it? I
03:59Was a father back then
04:02I mean, I got a 20 year old son now, but yeah, but I wasn't a hands-on father. I wasn't really there in many ways
04:09so
04:10It's what I always wanted. I think I always wanted a
04:15close-knit family that I was there with and for
04:19No, I'm married as well and
04:24Settled in a lot of ways I suppose that
04:27Maybe I'm wrong. I mean, I think that's what a lot of people want. Isn't it? Really?
04:30that's all nest that nests and I
04:35Love an environment. I don't know if I dared to dream it was possible
04:39I
04:41Don't know I think at that time turn of the century
04:462025 seemed seemed a hell of a long way off. Yeah, you know, I think we imagined it was all gonna be hover cars
04:53hover cars and
04:56Lightsabers, I don't know
04:58which probably do exist, you know, but only for that the upper echelons of the
05:03the American military
05:05Yeah, of course, yeah, yeah, yeah, but not around here
05:09Where are we anyway?
05:11Islington, so there's no hovercars in angel Kensington. Maybe no angel. Well, it's like a lot of London
05:16I mean Kensington obviously has very very wealthy areas
05:20But you know, my dad's my count like my dad's my council estate in Kensington
05:25Yeah, third Avenue off the Harrow Road, but he doesn't live there anymore
05:29I really wonder why what I really thought the future. I don't think I thought a lot about it
05:34I think at that time in the early 2000s when we
05:37In our sort of enemy glory days, so there was no other way really to get yes
05:41Do you know this was very early days of Internet pre website? The only thing the Internet was useful was sort of
05:48Very slow to upload
05:50Forums, you know, you'd go down there. You'd go down the internet cafe to to use you can get it on your phone or an event
05:57Yeah, I don't think I could have dared dream really that that I'd still be knocking about and making music
06:03But that would have been the that would have been the ideal vision. Yeah, I don't know nothing change
06:08I mean, it's like it's interesting tonight. You said Weller and primal screen are doing
06:12They're doing a pro-palestine gig
06:15That would be in one way be beautiful to see that
06:18Someone like Bobby Gillespie has stayed true to his principles. It was had but in other way, it's sad that he would it would still be
06:25necessary
06:26To have to fight for that that point of view. So to know 25 years ago that Palestine was
06:33Probably in a more fucked state than ever with what's with what's happening. It doesn't it's just it's basically
06:41It's been blitzed. Yeah, it's been raised to the ground and then it it's fucked
06:47And the people like terrorized and
06:50Genocide basically they're talking about so what a mess there
06:53but then you mentioned kneecap that would have probably peaked my
06:57Fiorosi to know that there's like something an Irish fucking rap
07:01Like a mob a rap of some island called kneecap who were like trickle or
07:06Ballot flowers on stage that would have been interesting but 25 years ago. They probably were like toddlers or something or maybe not born
07:14And I could have like if I'd known about that I could have nicked the whole idea
07:19Yeah done some freestyling Gaelic
07:23Just basically would be able to say a thousand welcomes
07:25But
07:27There you go, yeah good lads, huh, really talented I call a lot of these acts coming out of Ireland this year
07:34It's been amazing
07:36Junior brother. Yeah, then he's like
07:39He's doing some weird like psychedelic folk
07:43Incantation stuff but at the same time he can obviously write a song I
07:47Know so I think he's trying to be melodic, but then he just goes off into these mad. Yeah
07:53Yeah, and he's got the mandolin and the drummer who also plays the
07:57Part of Lisa O'Neill as well. He's on rough trade not to promote a rival label obviously strap originals, but
08:05Lisa O'Neill is again just this folk
08:09very poetic very lyrical in that way that
08:14the Irish do so well almost
08:17Well, I said it just now but almost
08:20pagan like this is very
08:23Yeah, I don't know if you know as an Irish poet post-war poet, I mean she's long dead but Madge Heron
08:30she was she plotted up in Kentish town and would
08:36You know, she was quite known for hoarding and looking after stray dogs
08:39But she also wrote these amazing poems and she tapped into a similar thing
08:43There's something very earthy about it. And obviously we're living in a digital age
08:47You know everything's you know AI but at the same time
08:51There's a lot of people who I think who still feel or long to have
08:56Its connection with the woods. Have you heard of Gurria's?
08:59Good. No, really really spicy spiky Irish punk, but yeah
09:04Yeah, and of course Fontaine's DC. Yeah, obviously they're like they're very well known now
09:09But I think they're the best band in the world
09:12You do I would say so Wow
09:15Yeah, they got a few tunes
09:17Yeah, I heard that I was listening to him in the car actually as I was doing my
09:22Doing the rounds in the village the other day. I listened to starburst. Uh, yeah, it was really yeah
09:27Yeah, and then somehow it passed me by and I knew it I knew about it
09:31I hadn't actually heard it but I listened to it all the way through a couple of times and it was just yeah
09:35It's a belt of a tune. Yeah. Well, so you did that single with
09:39Benefits as well. That was amazing
09:42New music was what else is on your radar?
09:44well with the label
09:47There's a lot of listening being done. I'm not so much by me, but me and my you know, and I lot in strap
09:53we got quite a dedicated team who are just always like
09:57Looking for things and and the people we've picked up and have supported and managed to release their stuff
10:05Fair the people we believe in you I've talked about if you give me the chance, so we got a Dutch I
10:11I suppose it's punk. I suppose I'd call it rock and roll, but I don't know what I don't know
10:16I'm not a music journalist, but
10:18They're called real farmer. Oh, yeah. Yeah
10:22they're pretty cool, they're like strong songs, but
10:26There's also I think there's maybe a few mental mental health issues going on there. I don't know. He seems quite angry that fella
10:33Pre-goblin Alex Ebbley
10:35We've released an album of his. I mean it didn't sell many physical copies, but
10:42I'll never know why because it's it's just
10:46gorgeous like achingly beautiful
10:49songs strong songs
10:52There's two or three songs on there that I think David Bowie would have been proud to have written and released
10:57Yeah, and an Irish folk singer called Thomas Irwin
11:02Unfortunately, I think he's got like
11:05Personality wise he hasn't hit it off with
11:07Other people in the label, which is a shame because he's got some some great songs
11:12but yeah, there's been like fisticuffs at dawn with him and
11:17and the management which is a shame because I
11:20really wanted like the rest of the label to believe in him get behind him, but
11:25he's
11:27He's as obstinate as he can be
11:29He's
11:30He's as obstinate as they are and they've sort of clashed so now I don't know what's gonna happen with him
11:34But he wrote a song
11:36He was a busker actually. I heard when I first met him. He was busking and we became mates and then you saw him years later
11:43Outside I was playing a gig in Cologne about a year and a half ago
11:46Well Hamburg it was a Humber. Yeah, it was on the Reeperbahn and he said I said Thomas
11:51How you doing? You still living in Germany when I am still busking around and he's got three young daughters
11:57And he's literally hand-to-mouth
11:59But he had played me a couple of his new songs that he'd written and that night
12:02I got him up to support me and then brought him over back to the UK to support me and the Libertines
12:10and we've released an EP of his who
12:13Born a county answering boy. It's called
12:17And he's got a song called Belfast is gonna burn which is just about it. It's just something
12:22But again, we didn't manage to sell many physical copies
12:25I mean literally I was going around so when he supported the Libertines of Belfast, I was going around with the box
12:30Saying get you, you know, get you guys get your EPS and they were flying out there
12:35But I probably sold as many by hand as we did as we did online. It's a hard. It's a hard graft out there
12:41Yeah, so I mean because it's all about streaming. Well, I can't get my head around the streaming because I just
12:46Because I don't have a phone and I'm not online
12:49Obviously, we've got a social media department, but I'm not part of that
12:53So I'm starting a fanzine. So I'm gonna try and reignite a
12:59What's the opposite of digital analog I'm gonna try and reignite an analog
13:06People's front people's front of analog here. Yeah, so my fanzines coming out. It's good on strap. It's coming out in January
13:13And in addition one of unstrapped there will be a PO box address where any
13:18Contributors who believe in the written word still can send in their reviews
13:23cartoons dreams crossword puzzles and
13:27So look out for that. I'm gonna be selling it outside the venue before the Libertine shows in Europe in February
13:33It's gonna be strictly on paper. So we'll see how long that lasts staples and glue see how long I can keep it going before
13:40My manager convinces me to go online with it
13:43What's it like to run a label but have that kind of old-school mentality because it's like I don't really I mean
13:47I don't really run it a lot of its business stuff
13:50And there's a weird amount of regulations and illegal things that so I part own it
13:55And I was there at the inception because we had no one else to release to put Marjorie's album
14:00But day-to-day running of it. I'm not involved with and it's got to the point now where I
14:06Can't just say we're gonna sign this band, you know, we've got a team now
14:10It's quite democratic, but I'm very much a part of it. It's in my it's in my soul. It's in my blood
14:16But I'm not the label boss. Yeah, you know, I mean, it's just like I'm a part a part owner
14:21And I'm very invested in it
14:23Maybe out of every six bands we sign one of them will be a band that I've said we need to sign these
14:28Yeah
14:29But so far each band that I've believed in has got drunk and fucking offered to fight
14:33The rest of the team but there's something so five years of straps this year
14:39It's one thing to make music and be drawn to make music and you see what sort of person that could only do this
14:43But how does it feel to have given music at home in that sense?
14:47No, no, it's what we want to do. It's a dream really so many times over the years. I believed in bands and
14:53Longed for them to make it and for lots of different reasons
14:56Nothing ever came of it, but managed to get them supporting them supporting the libs or supporting shambles or supporting me
15:02and
15:04But I was never able to actually take him to rough trade or take him to Parlophone and say you've got to sign this band
15:09Yeah, but now I can now I can have a more of an influence
15:13You know, I mean and help in really giving someone a real platform not just a stage
15:18Some bands don't like playing life. Some bands aren't some some songwriters. They're not cut out for that. They're not sort of fame-hungry
15:25Chances in the way we were they just want to write and record their music and if they haven't got that drive and
15:30Connections and industry bods looking after him then that would just disappear
15:34You know, it's a bit like Alex Ebbley, you know
15:37He is an amazing songwriter, but he's not desperate to get out there and sell his ass on the corner
15:42Do you know I mean? Yeah
15:44So to be able to just put his music out is enough, you know
15:47I mean, so that's that's really the dream to create this infrastructure and do it and now the label has
15:55As an independent label, it's doing really well, you know, I mean what we need now is
16:00We want to stay independent
16:03But it'd be nice if we could get a proper distribution deal, you know, so we could really help people get out there so
16:11It's just a question then of whether whether or not it's selling out
16:15To work with corporations and I don't I don't think it as long as you maintain independence
16:21I don't think there's any harm in using
16:24Because otherwise you're kind of fighting a losing game a lot of the time
16:28Well, that's it's not being heard at the end of day, I mean do you think much about the
16:33The choppy seas in it on the one hand you've got this fight to keep venues open
16:38But then there's the other part of the argument which is what goods an open venue if artists can't afford to live to get to
16:42The point where they can play the gig. I mean
16:44could you imagine being a new artist today and
16:47Paying rent and being able to pay for studio time and whatnot
16:51It's just it's becoming a sort of upper-class game for bands at least bands and if you look at festival lineups next year
16:57there aren't a lot of bands about I
16:59Don't know. We were quite we were quite feral. We sort of managed to get up drainpipes and
17:03Find squats and spaces although driving around London today a lot of those places. They're just not there. Yeah, all those crumbling old
17:11Warehouses, they're all sort of glass and conch, you know, there's sort of glass and steel towers now
17:16So I don't know maybe I wouldn't wouldn't have stayed in London
17:19I'd have gone somewhere
17:23Warmer
17:24And you wouldn't have to worry so much about paying although even that but although since brexit you can't even do that now
17:29Yeah, do you know I mean you need a visa
17:31so
17:33Hmm
17:34Yeah, I don't know. I think if you are driven enough, you will just find a way, you know, I mean
17:40Yeah, but that's not enough. Is it? I don't know. Who knows. You know, if you're talking to a 16 year old who's
17:48bought a guitar ball copy of definitely maybe or up the bracket or whatever people say I am and
17:53Thinks I want to do that. It was obviously easier 20 years ago
17:56What would you probably say to him just right keep going and believe in yourself and just keep writing
18:00that's all you get it because you can have all the
18:03you can have all the dreams and dreams are great, but
18:07You gotta bang away. You know, I mean get your head down and bang away your guitar and I love it and believe in yourself and
18:15Just keep writing really? Yeah
18:18next year big year
18:21Also
18:2220 years of the baby shambles debut
18:26Rumors talk of a reunion
18:28Yeah, I think it's on the cards. Well, it is on the cards
18:32We will get we will get back together. We will get again a room with the instruments and play through the old songs
18:39and
18:41And then get on stage into it
18:44But it's the who and the where and the when really that needs to be worked out. Yeah, so
18:50Yeah, I think we'll just keep that one on the horizon. You know, I mean deal that deal with that next year because I got
18:58Before then I've got my I've got a new collection of songs
19:02Hmm
19:04Which I'm putting out obviously on me own label and then you got that mad London show with super grass soft play
19:13Gunners be part Libertines festival. Yeah with the Lambrini girls and
19:18And hack Baker and
19:21Supergrass a good day. I think so. I think so. Yeah, you know if you like that sort of thing
19:26Yeah, lovely place as well. Yeah guys be part
19:30Beautiful old oak trees there. So many oldest oak trees in the London area
19:35Mm-hmm mean that on its own is reason to get down there. Is it being supported by super grass? I must feel
19:41heavy
19:44Yeah, talk about yeah change of I mean it was the time like years ago who were proper whippersnappers that
19:51Down Dublin Castle lying trying to impress girls telling them that we were going on tour with super grass
19:57And then trying to get him back to our basement and then I'd go out to the phone box and phone the landline
20:02Pretending to be super grass manager
20:04you know, I mean this is before we even sign or even had a bass player or a drummer and
20:09and then we ended up supporting him and
20:12Now they're supporting us, but I think it might support us before yeah, so I might be wrong
20:17You know, they've been going around clothes lying about it
20:21Yeah, I remember one time Karl pretended to be a guitarist in Radiohead at the Wag Club I
20:28Think one of them is there as well. Yeah, so he was talking to these Scandinavian girls saying yeah
20:34I'm the guitarist in Radiohead. He had all his hair over his head. It's me. Ah, I just met your bass player
20:39He's over there
20:42Is that still there the Wag Club? I don't know. Where is it?
20:45Wardour Street
20:47So somewhere. Yes. They still have a night. They seven was proper old indie disco night. It's called cigarettes and alcohol. Yeah, I
20:55Remember because I used to hand the flyers out
20:57At Chan cross and in return I would get you'd be allowed to get in to the club
21:02Yeah, you hand out flyers for now and if you're in Radiohead
21:05Yeah
21:07So we would do that
21:09We think we came a cropper a few times like
21:12If you're in Radiohead, how come you're handing out flyers for the club sort of thing?
21:16But there's always a way around it and I yeah, well, it's the last time you lied about who you were. I
21:22Do it a lot I find myself in airports quite a lot and you know people some people come up to you
21:27it's really rude this but they come up to you and say
21:31Who are you?
21:32Because maybe they'll know your face, but not another name, but how rude is that? Who you unless you say?
21:38Sometimes I go the fuck are you and sometimes I'll just I
21:42dare I'll go into some
21:44Imaginative spiel, you know, and I'll be a I'll be a you know, a well-known terrorist or I don't know
21:49But I'll be something never a terrorist. No and that gonna be parking
21:53Is that gonna be like the victory lap of this of the or quite on the Eastern Esplanade Esplanade Esplanade?
22:01Campaign tracking that's a full stop
22:04I don't know. I think there's more to it than that. I think there's quite a few
22:08maybe not so much in the UK or
22:11England as it used to be but I
22:14Think there's a few festivals around next year France and Spain and Australia. We went to Australia
22:19I don't know. Maybe hopefully we'll have the strings, you know, the strings and the dancers and the the proper backdrop
22:27Which for me always makes it a special occasion. Anyway on this last tour we did
22:31There was only a few shows. I think the London show in the Manchester shows the London shows in the Manchester's where we had that
22:38The full, you know the full shebang. Yeah, we can actually afford to get the strings and
22:44All the venue was the right size to have the full backdrop. So hopefully we'll have all that
22:49Yeah, we'll get back and vocals on and all that
22:52Yeah
22:54And then if you and Carl spoke about after the next record
22:58No, not really I've seen him last night we did the Joe Wiley Christmas thing
23:05But we haven't we haven't talked about it no
23:09There's a lot of ideas about though
23:12There's a lot of ideas about it
23:14We didn't really have much time but during sound checks during the last tour
23:18We were there's a few strong ideas, which is normally the starting point. What's going on? What we got
23:23We never really just say right let's meet in the studio
23:28With a complete blank empty canvas with no ideas. We've never done that. Maybe that maybe we should try that
23:34But I don't know if I speak for both of us. Maybe I speak more for myself when I say that
23:40I'm a bit wary of that. Yeah
23:43For someone who's well known for being supposedly chaotic and that I'm actually I
23:49I'd like to be sort of well prepared in my in my own way
23:52Maybe it's my sort of my early Cub Scout training, you know, yeah
23:58Dub dub dub I promise to do my best to serve my Queen and country
24:04What was it? I promised to do my best to serve Queen and country and God
24:10Not to tell lies
24:12Take money for the Communism
24:15It ends with everyone saying we will do our best we will do our best promise to serve the Queen and country and God
24:23How you getting by on that promise I know I'm all right I've got no I've made my peace
24:27Yeah, yeah, I personally is there any way you'd really like the next Libertines record to go? Yeah, maybe do you know?
24:33I think me like I think
24:37Like some of those like early 70s Stevie Wonder's album, you know with that really jangly
24:43Jazzy guitar sound and
24:46the world it's a
24:48You know or Rhodes. I think if we had the right song
24:52could do something like that something really uplifting and melodic but
24:57with minors and ninths and I think Gary had like that and
25:04Yeah
25:06I'd like to do that. I'd like to do that. It's just some
25:09Some Motown II drum sounds and and and roads and whirl. It's his
25:17But that's just one song I don't know about whole record
25:20Yeah, I don't know
25:21Do you have an itching for a new baby shambles record when you guys get back together or do you think it will just be?
25:25some shows and
25:28I did right. I've wrote a new song the other day though. Actually that I
25:33Think it really work as a shambles song
25:35Yeah, so who knows if you're not getting back with the shambles with like
25:41Because obviously the shambles with a more chaotic outfit and it's a long way off. Yeah, Jeremy. What are we December 2025?
25:49So no, we're December 24. Yeah, so next it's gonna be next autumn
25:54So we'll see. I don't know who knows a long way off. Yeah, but it probably be coming around like
26:00that
26:01and
26:03That and yeah, so the Liberty's gonna have a Christmas party or you was that last night I
26:10think we had one really I think no, but I'm gonna give them all a bell and
26:15I
26:16Can't see happening unless we all get down to Margate
26:20but
26:21It's been a very busy busy time. I think for the different things going on with different people's families
26:27So I'm praying I'm praying for everyone that
26:30That you know
26:32When you lose a parent
26:35Or you lose someone close to you Christmas can be
26:39Can be an even harder time. So I'm just praying for everyone and I look forward to seeing
26:44Everyone when possible, you know, yeah any New Year's resolutions or you're not doing I don't know what you mean relieved by that
26:52I do make resolutions, but really just to stay off the
26:56You know to keep on this path, I'm on you know to stay off the
27:00hard the hard things and
27:03you know
27:05and be there for the babby and
27:08And get this solo album out and see what the world thinks of it and get get out and play it
27:14Yeah
27:16That's it
27:17See what God have see what happens. There's so much. There's so much chaos in the world the moment. I mean, it's still
27:22Horrible in Ukraine, it's horrible in Gaza and we'll see what's happening in Syria that could go I could go very wrong
27:30Even though it's great as that's gone
27:33Who knows what comes next Pete? Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Yeah, and you know, yeah
27:38And I had an apple in your ear say goodbye Gladys