In an exclusive throwback interview with Lehren, legendary filmmaker Shyam Benagal elaborates upon the types of cameras which he uses to shoot films & bats for shooting movies in sound sync format in turn mentioning numerous merits for the same. The dynamic director also highlights the importance of a good sound recordist & recalls the changes occured in context of sound & visuals catering to the craft of cinema and filmmaking. Watch this flashback interview featuring the Padma Bhushan and National Award Winning Director Shyam Benegal, who left us for her heavenly abode on 23rd December, 2024 at the age of 90 years. #shyambenegal #ripshyambenegal #shyambenegalinterview #manthan #ankur #mujib #shyambenegalage #lehrenretro
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00:00Acting cannot be broken up into sound and visual.
00:07You know, when you have a lot of noise going on everywhere,
00:10it's also distracting for the actors.
00:13Forty years ago, people, the sound recordists were much better trained.
00:17They were much better trained because there was a demand made on them.
00:20Today, you have, nobody makes that demand.
00:24When and how did you learn the existence of Sync Sound
00:26and how did you adapt this to the Indian context?
00:29Well, you see, I started shooting in Sync Sound
00:33from the very first feature film I made,
00:36Ankur, onwards.
00:38I was shooting in Sync Sound.
00:40At that time, when I started,
00:43I used to use a studio camera.
00:45Even though my films were shot in outdoor,
00:48I was shooting with a Japanese camera called Seiki.
00:51It belonged to the Shree Sound Studios here.
00:54And it was a camera that was designed after the Mitchell.
00:58So, it was a completely silent camera.
01:01And so, I was using that camera to shoot my films.
01:05Now, when I was forced to use a RE-2C camera,
01:10which is not a silent camera,
01:13we used to insulate it
01:16by using, you know, mattresses and so on and so forth
01:20to make it as silent as possible.
01:22And so, I, you know, for me, Sync Sound is not anything new.
01:28I have been using it from the very first film I have done.
01:31When did I come to know about Sync Sound?
01:34Let me tell you that in India,
01:36ever since the very first sound film was made, Alamara, in 1931,
01:41films were always shot in Sync Sound.
01:44They were shot in Sync Sound almost until 1960s
01:49when, with the new RE-2C cameras, 2B and 2C cameras,
01:57when these cameras started to be used as against the older Mitchell cameras,
02:02and these were noisy cameras,
02:04it was from then, I think, the Indian film industry,
02:07particularly the Mumbai film industry,
02:09started to shoot films that were not Sync Sound.
02:12And they would, all sound would be post-sync.
02:15You know, that is, there would be a lot of dubbing of all the dialogues and so on and so forth.
02:20Now, I have also dubbed.
02:22But I dub when I find that the location and the environment is very noisy.
02:27If the environment is not noisy, I have always preferred to shoot Sync Sound.
02:32And that continues to be so till today.
02:35And one of the great advantages,
02:38I mean, there are many advantages,
02:40but one of the great advantages is
02:42that your post-production time gets reduced,
02:45you know, when you shoot in Sync Sound.
02:48So, the sound that you have got is your final sound when you're editing the picture.
02:52That is number one.
02:54Number two, the performance of the actors is one integrated performance.
02:58Now, that's also a very important thing.
03:00When you get one, because after all,
03:03acting cannot be broken up into sound and visual.
03:07You know, your mind, the way you act, the way you speak your lines,
03:11a lot depends on the kind of emotion you are carrying when you are acting.
03:17And that should be the quality of your sound.
03:20Now, people try and reproduce this in the recording studio afterwards.
03:25Two things happen when you do that.
03:27First of all, you don't have the ambience of any given location.
03:30Second of all, you don't get the right perspective.
03:33You see, because everybody concentrates on getting the right timbre of voice
03:38rather than the right perspective of sounds.
03:41And the character of sound that goes with a certain emotion.
03:46You know, people's voices get heightened or lowered depending on what the emotional moment is
03:53and also depending on where they are in perspective.
03:57You know, people who are in the far end of the corridor
04:00are not likely to sound like they are next door to you.
04:03Now, these things would have to be done, corrected later on by sound recordist.
04:09But when you shoot and sync sound, all these things come right.
04:13Now, there are many advantages. Then there are economic advantages.
04:18Because it cuts down, as I said, your post production period.
04:22But on location, you have certain distinct disadvantages as well as advantages.
04:29Let me take up the disadvantages first.
04:32The disadvantages on location, when you have sync sound,
04:36is that you have to be sure that every shot you have got in the camera,
04:42for the same shot, you have the exact same quality of sound.
04:47Which means that your sound recordist has to be very particular.
04:52And as much as I might pay attention to my cameraman when he said that he got an okay shot,
04:58apart from me as a director saying I have got an okay shot,
05:01he should also confirm that he has got an okay shot.
05:04Similarly, the sound recordist has to confirm he has got an okay shot.
05:08Now, therefore, there is a little more time spent on this.
05:14But that is still worth it. Then on location when you are shooting,
05:19one of the things that we notice, we all notice,
05:22that whenever an Indian film is being shot, there is a lot of noise on the location.
05:27Whether it is in the studio or outside.
05:30Now, when everybody knows that the film is going to be shot in sync sound,
05:34that noise level comes down.
05:37People work much more quietly than they would otherwise do.
05:41So, this is a great advantage and makes it much less tension filled.
05:47You know, when you have a lot of noise going on everywhere,
05:51it is also distracting for the actors.
05:54It is distracting for the actors, it is distracting for the technicians
05:58who are working on the film. Everybody is making a lot of noise.
06:01So, that noise level will come down immediately.
06:05But in order to get good sync sound, two things are absolutely essential.
06:13The sound recordist's understanding of what quality of sound he is getting,
06:19he must be absolutely first rate.
06:22And second of all, which is something that in the Indian film industry,
06:26nobody seriously pays any attention to, is the boom man.
06:32The man who is actually carrying the microphone.
06:35Because our films have not been, you know, for many years, nobody uses sync sound,
06:41they do not know how to hold the boom.
06:45How to hold the boom mic.
06:48How to get the right sound of the people who are speaking.
06:51And the boom man, just as much as the sound recordist,
06:55does not necessarily pay as much attention as he should
06:59to the fact of the camera placement, the movement of the camera,
07:04the movement of the actors.
07:06Because the boom man has to know exactly who is going to speak at what time
07:13and where the camera is going to be at what time.
07:17Now these things are very, very important,
07:20which means that just as much as a cameraman pays the kind of attention he does
07:26to every shot he takes, the sound man has to do the same.
07:30The sound recordist has to pay as much attention as a cameraman pays
07:36both to the actors as well as to the action.
07:43So a sound recordist has to be equally familiar with the script,
07:49like a cameraman has to be familiar with the script.
07:52He must know exactly how the shot is going to go.
07:55So during the rehearsals, he must not only look, he must find his position.
08:01A boom man is very, very crucial.
08:04Now apart, you know, except in India where we pay no attention to the boom man,
08:09abroad, particularly you will find in countries like Europe,
08:13you will find that the boom man is given as much importance as the sound recordist.
08:20Because you can often have the boom man being the sound recordist
08:24and the sound recordist being the boom man.
08:27They can interchange their positions.
08:29If they can interchange their positions, it means that both are of equal importance.
08:33And this is where you must realize that when sync sound comes in,
08:40it means that the quality of your sound recordist, the quality of your boom man
08:44has to be as good as a cameraman.
08:49I just wanted to know, do the artists' performance limited in the terms of sync sound
08:55because they have to perform as well as they have to concentrate on the dialogues at the same time?
09:00When you are acting, you are acting with everything.
09:05You are not acting with the face in one shot and hands with another shot.
09:10You are one complete person.
09:13You have your eyes, you have your mouth, you have your ears, you have your limbs.
09:19So when you are talking about sync sound, you are talking about their giving a complete performance.
09:25There is no such thing as a partial performance.
09:28You cannot say that he is giving me a good visual performance
09:31and he is not giving me a good audio performance.
09:34That is ridiculous. An actor is trained as a totality.
09:38So a good actor is one who will be able just as much as his mime is first rate,
09:45his voice, ability to use his voice will also be first rate.
09:50And they will be integrated together because they are not separate things.
09:55So there is no question of separating these two things.
09:58And therefore, according to me, to get that discipline back into the film industry,
10:05everybody should actually be using sync sound.
10:08Only in those locations which are very noisy,
10:12where you really cannot use sync sound, it's okay.
10:16But otherwise, at least 90% of your film should be in synchronized sound.
10:23No question.
10:25Do they cooperate in terms of technique and time in your film?
10:28Everybody does. You see, when they realize,
10:32because after all you are also saving their time,
10:35just as much as you are saving yourself some time,
10:38there is much greater efficiency in using synchronized sound on the sets.
10:44No question about it.
10:46And an actor will focus his attention just as much as every technician
10:51will focus their attention correctly.
10:55You know, it is not a question of saying only the cameraman will pay attention,
11:00just as much as the director pays attention, the cameraman will pay attention,
11:04the sound recordist will pay attention, actors will pay attention.
11:08And that is what you need for a really good film.
11:12You need good performances.
11:14And there cannot be a better performance than a complete performance.
11:19Not done in parts, but as a totality.
11:23And it's the same thing for everyone.
11:26What is the difference between making a sync sound film 40 years ago and today in India?
11:31There is no difference. The difference is that 40 years ago,
11:34people, the sound recordists were much better trained.
11:38They were much better trained because there was a demand made on them.
11:42Today, you have, nobody makes that demand.
11:46Film units use the sound recordists, they don't take the sound recordists very seriously.
11:52Because they say that he is only going to give you a pilot sound, so it doesn't matter.
11:56Even if they don't have a sound trained sound recordist, it doesn't seriously matter to them.
12:01Because all they want is a pilot track.
12:03Which means that the training of a sound recordist is languishing behind
12:10compared to the other disciplines of filmmaking.
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