11th Hour | Waseem Badami | Salman Akram | Fawad Chaudhry | Ijaz ul Haq | ARY News | 16th Jan2025
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00:00In the name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful.
00:23Peace be upon you.
00:24It was an important day.
00:25It was a day full of news.
00:26Today, the most important meeting of the Negotiating Committee was to take place.
00:31And it was presented to you.
00:33And today, there was a lot of talk about a meeting.
00:36It was about the meeting between the head of the Pakistan Army,
00:40Chairman Barrister Gauhar, and General Asim Munir.
00:44We will talk about both the contexts, both the references, both the important things.
00:48He is a very important person of Pakistan Law.
00:50We will talk to him.
00:52First, we will meet the Army Chief and then we will talk about the negotiations.
00:57The meeting and the negotiations can have a very deep connection.
01:02Yesterday, the news came that Barrister Gauhar had met the Army Chief.
01:06Gauhar denied it.
01:08There was no meeting.
01:09Omar Ayyub denied it.
01:10There was no meeting.
01:12The journalists asked Khan Sahab.
01:14Khan Sahab finally said that yes, there was a meeting.
01:18Then, Barrister Gauhar said in front of the media that yes, he had met the Army Chief.
01:22He was not saying that he discloses something only after permission from Khan Sahab.
01:26So, in these words, Barrister Gauhar confirmed that he had met the Army Chief.
01:31Yes, I have met him.
01:33Wherever I go, whatever I do, I do it for Khan Sahab.
01:37I do it according to the instructions and permission of Khan Sahab.
01:40Wherever I meet, whatever I do, I do it when I have instructions from Khan Sahab.
01:46After talking to the journalists, Khan Sahab said that this is very welcoming.
01:49Negotiations are important for the stability of the country.
01:51Our doors were always open for negotiations.
01:54The doors of other people were closed.
01:56If the negotiations go ahead, then it will bring stability to the country.
01:59Why don't you talk to him, who is sitting here?
02:01See, God willing, all of you are the same.
02:03The fact is that the way Khan Sahab said today…
02:07Now, this gives a very clear impression that in this meeting,
02:12the recent affairs that are going on, are also getting a very clear impression.
02:17But then, on television channels, Pakistan's tickers started running,
02:21that security is here, that is, of course, the soldier is here.
02:23They are saying that a completely wrong impression is being given.
02:26This is about security.
02:27The meeting in which Asim Munir Sahib went to Peshawar,
02:30political supporters were sitting, Gandapur Sahib was sitting,
02:33Hafiz Naeem-ur-Rehman Sahib was sitting, this is about that meeting,
02:35which was purely about security affairs.
02:37In fact, it was also said that,
02:40that they even tried to talk about politics,
02:42but they were told that, no, you cannot talk about this in this meeting.
02:45This is about security.
02:47Then the negotiations, the conference due to the government.
02:49In that, Rana Sanaullah Sahib and Irfan Siddiqui Sahib said exactly the same thing,
02:53who had come from the security area,
02:54that there is no such thing in such a meeting,
02:57which is getting the impression from Gohar Sahib's talks.
02:59See what Rana Sanaullah Sahib said about this.
03:02I am saying this with full authority,
03:05no negotiations will start.
03:08I am saying this with full authority,
03:10that the meeting which he is referring to,
03:13is a meeting called for the security situation of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa.
03:21I am saying this on the basis of full authority,
03:24that in that meeting,
03:25Barrister Ali Gohar Sahib or Gandapur Sahib,
03:29has tried to present their political talks or political demands,
03:36but they have been made clear that this is a meeting for security.
03:42This has nothing to do with politics.
03:44Therefore, if you want to make any political demands or talk,
03:48then don't do it with us.
03:50Do it where you have already done it.
03:52I am saying this to you with full authority.
03:55Irfan Sahib has said so much authority,
03:58that it was not possible to say more authority.
04:00In a short of 35 seconds,
04:02I am saying this to you with full authority.
04:07It was not possible to say more authority.
04:12But Barrister Gohar Sahib answered Irfan Siddiqui.
04:15He answered in Hamid Mir Sahib's show,
04:17which again,
04:18not only in one way,
04:19but in every way,
04:20refuted Irfan Siddiqui's statement.
04:23And the security situation of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa has been taken care of.
04:25What did Barrister Gohar Sahib say?
04:27You and Ali Mir Gandapur Sahib had a separate meeting.
04:30Yes, we had a meeting.
04:31But we also had these issues.
04:34Law and order situation.
04:35Yes.
04:36And our alliance also has some security issues.
04:38So we had a meeting.
04:39We had some talks.
04:40Some government officials are saying,
04:42that there was no political discussion.
04:44Is this correct?
04:45Mir Sahib, we keep it to the meeting.
04:47If a meeting comes,
04:48and people sit,
04:49then everything has to do with politics.
04:51But so far,
04:52there has been only one meeting.
04:53In a meeting,
04:54neither can you have any dialogue,
04:55nor can you raise any issue.
04:56They are claiming that
04:57Barrister Gohar Khan tried to talk about politics.
05:01No, this is completely wrong.
05:02The news that they have circulated,
05:03that I tried a lot to talk about politics,
05:06and I was told as an answer,
05:07that you talk about politics.
05:10No such thing has come.
05:12No, I don't know.
05:13They are saying that
05:14there was no discussion about politics.
05:17Or they are saying that
05:18when I tried to talk about politics,
05:19I was not snubbed.
05:20I don't know.
05:21Look at the last thing on this.
05:23Then we go to the guest.
05:25Mr. Hamid Radha,
05:26while taking pleasure in the gestures,
05:28in this way,
05:29he mentioned this meeting,
05:30which further created this misconception,
05:32or removed the previous misconception,
05:34that there was only security in the meeting.
05:36See what Mr. Hamid Radha said.
05:39The Chief Minister has himself clarified this.
05:41The way I have seen two or three of his stickers,
05:44why would I object to that?
05:46Mr. Gohar tried to talk about politics.
05:48He was told to go and talk to politicians
05:51or political parties.
05:53I don't think there is such a thing.
05:55If it is beyond money,
05:56then it is a year and a half.
05:58I don't think so.
05:59Nor is it.
06:00I don't think they have this much time left.
06:03And we have given you one shot.
06:05At another place,
06:06while doing a press conference today,
06:07Mr. Hamid Radha also said that
06:09if I can't tell you now,
06:11if I tell you the circumstances,
06:13if I tell you the content of that meeting,
06:16then the government will be very worried.
06:18In fact, see what happened.
06:20Show that too.
06:22I am still keeping the oath
06:26under which I can't say what is inside.
06:31Otherwise, if I say what is outside of that meeting,
06:34then they will be worried.
06:37Obviously,
06:38if we are talking about Afghan affairs,
06:41then there will be no such thing
06:42that if I tell you later,
06:43Mr. Hamid Radha will be very worried.
06:45So what is this matter?
06:47There is still some confusion in this.
06:48Let's take some clarity.
06:49Let's talk about the negotiations.
06:50In Pakistan Tariq-e-Insaaf's senior most leadership,
06:52of course,
06:53who is also a member of the Negotiating Committee,
06:54Secretary General of Pakistan Tariq-e-Insaaf,
06:56Mr. Salman Akram Raja is with us.
06:59Huzoor, Assalam-o-Alaikum.
07:02Wa-Alaikum-Salam.
07:03Sir, thank you very much for your time.
07:05As I said,
07:06there has been a lot of talk today.
07:07And obviously,
07:08there is also some confusion in this.
07:10So, sir,
07:11I will ask for clarity.
07:12First of all, sir,
07:13tell me,
07:14it is clear that
07:15the army chief who went to Peshawar,
07:16met the political supporters,
07:18Mr. Gandapur was also there,
07:19from the PTI.
07:20From there,
07:21Mr. Naeem-ur-Rehman was there,
07:22etc. etc.
07:23And Mr. Gauhar was also there.
07:24So, he was there in that meeting.
07:26This is the only meeting that Mr. Gauhar had,
07:28or apart from that,
07:29did you meet anyone else
07:30from Mr. Gauhar's army chiefs?
07:35Look,
07:36whatever Mr. Gauhar has said
07:38in Mr. Hamid Khan's program,
07:40or whatever Mr. Irfan Siddiqui has said,
07:43I don't see any contradiction in it.
07:45Okay.
07:46Apart from the fact that
07:48he tried and he was stopped,
07:50if we leave that one thing,
07:52then what Mr. Irfan Siddiqui said
07:54and what Mr. Gauhar said,
07:55it is that there was a big meeting
07:57regarding security issues.
07:59There was a discussion in it.
08:01Whatever the discussion was,
08:02it was in the presence of all people.
08:04So, we should stay on this.
08:06The little confusion that arose,
08:08you said that it happened
08:10because of Mr. Hamid Raza's words.
08:12So, I think that too,
08:14it is not related to the rest of the things.
08:18He just said that
08:20whatever was discussed in that meeting,
08:22perhaps some people are worried about that.
08:25It is possible that
08:26some words of appreciation
08:28have been given
08:30regarding a party,
08:32or a role has been pointed
08:34towards the future.
08:36Many people want
08:38the existence of PTI to end.
08:40Mr. Imran Khan should move away from the scene.
08:42So, I think that
08:44our system has realized
08:46that PTI is the biggest
08:48political power in the country.
08:50Imran Khan is the biggest
08:52political figure in the country.
08:54So, if this recognition
08:56comes from any point of view,
08:58then some people
09:00feel pain or
09:02get worried.
09:04So, you are saying
09:06that there is no self-contradiction
09:08in this.
09:10There has been a meeting
09:12and there has not been
09:14a separate meeting with Mr. Gauhar's army chief.
09:16Am I understanding you correctly?
09:18This is what I am understanding
09:20based on these three statements.
09:22There is no contradiction
09:24in these three statements.
09:26Mr. Hamid Raza, Mr. Irfan Siddiqui and Mr. Gauhar.
09:28And sir, even if you move away
09:30from these statements,
09:32you being the party's
09:34secretary general or a senior leader,
09:36then obviously,
09:38you are meeting the army chief
09:40separately,
09:42in which the political aspect is also discussed.
09:44So, obviously, you are informed
09:46about this. Am I saying it right?
09:50Look, it is possible that I am informed.
09:52It is possible that I am not.
09:54But that is an area
09:56where I think
09:58it is good to maintain
10:00ambiguity in a political action.
10:02We should keep the possibilities in front.
10:04All the parties at the moment
10:06want the matter
10:08to be discussed
10:10at different levels.
10:12And I think
10:14there is nothing wrong
10:16in discussing at any level.
10:18We are discussing at the political level.
10:20We are doing it formally.
10:22We are doing it informally.
10:24We are doing it on the sidelines.
10:26So, let this discussion happen.
10:28It is a political action.
10:30There is a lot of confusion
10:32and there is no clear position.
10:34Maybe it is for you
10:36that you want the reality.
10:38You are a journalist. You want the scoop.
10:40But as a responsible person
10:42who has a connection with this action,
10:44I think
10:46some things should be left out.
10:48It should not be done.
10:50Some things should be left out.
10:52And obviously,
10:54an informed
10:56journalist can
10:58analyze it better.
11:00I mean,
11:02some things should be left out.
11:04I am doing it on my own.
11:06My opinion can be wrong
11:08or right.
11:10Whatever I am deducing,
11:12I will analyze it
11:14if there is an expert in it.
11:16Today, there is no such position.
11:18One more thing.
11:20There was a confusion
11:22that if they were
11:24discussing purely security matters,
11:26then it is clear that
11:28Mr. Gandapur is the chief executive of the province.
11:30Mr. Gauhar
11:32was not the chief executive
11:34of any other party.
11:36Was it the party
11:38who nominated them
11:40to sit in that meeting?
11:44Mr. Gauhar is an MNA
11:46from that area,
11:48from Khyber Pakhtunkhwa.
11:50And the MNAs
11:52of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa,
11:54the elected MPs,
11:56they also represent them.
11:58So, it is clear that
12:00they should sit there.
12:02Okay.
12:04One more question.
12:06The attitude of the
12:08establishment of Pakistan
12:10towards PTI.
12:12I am not going into the details
12:14of what you are saying.
12:16Do you feel any change
12:18in this attitude
12:20in a positive sense
12:22compared to a few years ago?
12:28Mr. Salman, can you hear me?
12:30Maybe you should take the telephone.
12:32I don't think you can hear me.
12:34The signals have frozen.
12:36We are trying to find out
12:38what the overall situation is.
12:40But you see,
12:42there is one thing
12:44that I have always objected to,
12:46that it is not like that.
12:48Mr. Salman Akhmaria is saying
12:50that if you let some things
12:52remain closed, then it is good.
12:54Some things are better.
12:56Mr. Salman, could you hear my question?
12:58Or should I repeat it?
13:00Yes, I could hear you.
13:02My request is that
13:04I think, and maybe this is my wish,
13:06that the system now understands
13:08that the existence of PTI
13:10and Imran Khan
13:12cannot be denied.
13:14In Pakistan,
13:16political progress is not possible
13:18without political amendments.
13:20And political amendments are not possible
13:22without giving PTI and Imran Khan
13:24a chance to speak.
13:26They are the biggest political figures
13:28in the country.
13:30PTI is the biggest political group
13:32in the country.
13:34And we are not standing
13:36away from what Pakistan
13:38has to say.
13:40We do not do politics
13:42on the basis of religious
13:44hatred.
13:46We do not do politics
13:48on the basis of any
13:50linguistic distinction.
13:52Yes, not even in Pakistan.
13:54I think that in this country,
13:56there is a big...
13:58You said that you have a wish,
14:00or there is news about it.
14:02There is news.
14:04You have reasons to believe
14:06that it could be happening,
14:08or that this case is only
14:10up to desires?
14:12I think we are
14:14moving forward,
14:16especially forward in the world
14:18of possibilities.
14:20I don't know what the situation is like in the press conference after the negotiations.
14:30You can tell me. It was a pleasant atmosphere.
14:33There was more tension than before.
14:35But one thing that we have seen is that in the press conference after the negotiations,
14:40a very clear and obedient attitude is adopted.
14:43Today, this was not the case at all.
14:45The same Irfan Siddiqui, who used to say that we, the members of the Negotiating Committee,
14:51have disconnected ourselves from the outside world,
14:53that no matter what anyone says, we are our own.
14:55Today, the same Irfan Siddiqui seems to be saying that these are meaningless demands.
14:59There are some strange and strange things.
15:01The TOR is not understanding.
15:02Not every request can be fulfilled.
15:04You are in jail.
15:05There are many such things.
15:06I have a question.
15:07In the atmosphere in which the negotiations took place,
15:09and then in which the press conference took place,
15:11it was a matter of surprise that why such a serious press conference took place.
15:14Mr. Rana Sanawalla read each and every request and rejected it.
15:17How is this possible?
15:18He even said that it is not possible to become a commissioner in the eyes of the rebels.
15:24Look, if he has said this, then he must have said it under some scheme.
15:29We had a good meeting.
15:31And after reading our charter of demands,
15:37it was read very carefully.
15:39And there was no objection that it was not possible.
15:42It was just said that we will consult with each other,
15:45take legal advice,
15:46and in a week, in a period of seven days, we will give an answer.
15:51So there was some kind of discussion.
15:53I think a little grandstanding is done after coming out.
15:57So I don't give much importance to this grandstanding when it comes out.
16:01I think that in the end, matters will go to the side
16:05where all the parties will see
16:08that there is evidence, there is also a question of the country's peace and stability.
16:13This is a middle ground.
16:15They did it, we responded.
16:17I think we will move forward now.
16:19Okay.
16:20Let's leave the harsh language they used on this.
16:24You are saying that it works.
16:25Something works for optics too.
16:27But now that they have gone to this extent,
16:31then you do not see the possibility of this relatively less
16:36or that they may refuse to establish a commission.
16:39There is a question in this, maybe there is some answer to the news.
16:42Or if something comes up,
16:43if you want to make a commission, then do not limit it.
16:46There have been a lot of things in this country.
16:48So there should be a commission on this,
16:49there should be a commission on that,
16:50there should be a grand commission,
16:51in which this, this, this,
16:52the one of 2014, the one of 2018,
16:54and the one of 2021 should come,
16:55and this should also come.
16:56Don't you see any threat to this?
17:02Look, nothing like this has happened yet.
17:04In the second session,
17:05we asked if you also have any demands.
17:08The issue of establishing a commission was also raised then.
17:10It was just said to bring it in writing.
17:13Now, if such a thing is said,
17:15then we will see.
17:16If it seems that this is an attempt to avoid 9th May and 26th November,
17:21if they say that we will investigate since 1958,
17:24we will establish a commission,
17:25then it will be a joke.
17:27Then we will make our own decision.
17:29That decision,
17:30Of course,
17:31the approval of the government is not so important for us
17:35that if it does not happen,
17:36we will get lost somewhere.
17:39There are ways in front of us,
17:40political ways,
17:42legal ways.
17:45We will keep going.
17:47We think that it should still happen to establish a commission.
17:51The truth should be revealed,
17:52which is the situation we are in right now.
17:54The truth of that should be revealed
17:56so that we can move forward in some way.
17:59If it does not happen,
18:00then we will get lost somewhere.
18:03And sir,
18:04since you are a big name in the world of law in Pakistan,
18:07then you tell me,
18:08what about the commission you are talking about?
18:10Whatever the findings of the commission are,
18:12after going through the formalities,
18:14everything happens.
18:15So after that,
18:16its findings should also be binding on someone.
18:19Or just that,
18:20you will say that
18:21our position has been proven to be true.
18:23The commission also said that
18:25the arrest of 9th May was in these conditions.
18:27The commission also said that there is no CCTV.
18:29Or the commission will also be eligible to punish someone.
18:31It will also be eligible to arrest someone.
18:34No, no.
18:35The commission only brings forth facts.
18:38The commission is not a court.
18:40It cannot declare anyone a criminal.
18:42But it can bring forth its evidence.
18:45Based on that evidence,
18:47legal proceedings can be carried out.
18:49But look,
18:50commissions are made,
18:51white papers are issued,
18:53so that the truth is revealed.
18:54Revealing the truth is itself an important event.
18:58What has to be done after that,
19:00what action has to be taken,
19:02that is for later.
19:04But it cannot be denied that
19:06it is necessary for the people to know the truth.
19:10So these white papers are issued,
19:12inquiry reports are issued,
19:14so that the people are informed about what is happening.
19:17And Mr. Rana,
19:18what will you say about this?
19:20While discussing some of your demands,
19:22it is a very simple matter.
19:24If you want a verdict,
19:26you can petition it tomorrow morning.
19:30No, it is not like that.
19:32Why do you demand a commission?
19:34You can petition it tomorrow morning.
19:36You will get a verdict.
19:38Whoever wants facts from the commission,
19:40it is obvious that those things
19:42can be brought to the court through testimony.
19:44We have said that the judicial system
19:46has tried to exploit it.
19:48After the 26th amendment,
19:50it was said that
19:51only a government-sponsored
19:53bench will listen to all legal matters.
19:55That is in its place.
19:57Here the thing is that
19:59a negotiation team has been formed.
20:01The government has also formed it.
20:03We have also formed it.
20:05If there is to be any benefit in this
20:07negotiation process for the country,
20:09the nation, then we should try to do it.
20:11Otherwise, my truth will remain with me.
20:13Your truth will remain with you.
20:15We will continue to fight in the courts.
20:17The courts themselves will continue
20:19to fight in the courts.
20:21And the country will continue
20:23to be crushed.
20:25We are now talking about
20:27moving the country forward.
20:29All these things can happen.
20:31Go to court. Why don't you go?
20:33We went to court.
20:35You changed the law for the election.
20:37When the election was held on February 8,
20:39the law was that the judge present
20:41in the High Court would listen
20:43to all matters regarding the election.
20:45As soon as he came,
20:47he put the PCO judges
20:49in the electoral tribunals.
20:51And now he says, go to the courts.
20:53Where are the courts?
20:55Then it was said that if you do not agree
20:57with their decisions,
21:03after the 26th amendment,
21:05your petition will come to those judges
21:07whom we will appoint,
21:09who will be in our favor.
21:11When you close all the doors,
21:13then somewhere the voice is raised,
21:15that the action of closing all the doors
21:17will go ahead.
21:45The report of the commission
21:47is presented.
21:49And that report says that
21:51by and large, the election was right.
21:53What does Noorli say about it?
21:55Look, our opinion has been proven right.
21:57The PTI has been proven wrong.
21:59We were saying that as much as there is
22:01an administrative inconsistency in Pakistan,
22:03it happened, but by and large it was right.
22:05The PTI did not do it in the same commission.
22:07Look, our opinion has been proven right.
22:09It is written in this report that
22:11this is also wrong, this is also wrong.
22:13Even after this report came,
22:15they kept saying that it is our victory,
22:17and the matter went ahead.
22:19Similarly, even if this commission is formed,
22:21the result will come,
22:23and you yourself are guiding us
22:25that there will be no binding on anyone,
22:27no one will be declared a criminal.
22:29You will keep saying that it is your victory,
22:31they will say that it is your victory.
22:33What will be the difference on the ground
22:35in the situation?
22:37How will it come from this commission?
22:39No, there is a difference.
22:41It is not a judicial decision,
22:43but in relation to it,
22:45there is help in making statements
22:47or in binding a statement,
22:49and this is a good thing.
22:51This leads us towards
22:53rectification.
22:55What was said that
22:57no bullets were fired on 26 November,
22:59no martyrs were killed,
23:01so the families of the martyrs
23:03need to be told their reality.
23:05This truth
23:07is a need of the nation.
23:09This is why we form
23:11the Truth and Reconciliation Commission.
23:13It is very important
23:15that the hidden truth
23:17is revealed.
23:19Sir, we have talked a lot
23:21about the commission.
23:23The second demand is
23:25the release of political prisoners.
23:27We are clear about the commission.
23:29You have said that
23:31you will give an answer in 7 working days.
23:33What about the political prisoners?
23:35What exactly are you demanding from the government?
23:37Do you have a timeline?
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24:51...
24:53...
24:55...
24:57...
24:59...
25:01...
25:03We need to end these cases, we need to end the jokes, where people did not get bail,
25:09let them get bail, so that we can move forward.
25:12Right, and towards the end, if tomorrow, the decision of 90 million pounds,
25:17if it becomes such an environment, as a result of which Bushra Bibi also goes behind bars,
25:23will all this be affected?
25:26I don't think so.
25:28It shouldn't be, but we will see what is written in the decision,
25:31what is the language of the decision, and after that, what reaction comes from Imran Khan.
25:39My own opinion is that there should be no difference in the negotiations.
25:44Whatever reaction they get, if the decision is completely wrong,
25:50and they react to it, then that is their own business.
25:53Those who want to move the country forward politically,
25:57who should not be allowed to stop any negotiating.
26:03And the last question in this situation is that,
26:07you have said so much about today's meeting,
26:11if today's meeting is not a separate meeting,
26:13i.e. the meeting in Peshawar was not a separate meeting,
26:15but if you want that the head of our party, i.e. Barrister Gauhar,
26:20has not met the head of the Afwad party yet,
26:22then now there should be a formal meeting, in which the political situation should be discussed,
26:25and there should be a way forward. Is this your wish?
26:28There is no harm in this.
26:30Meeting on any level is a good thing. There should be a discussion.
26:34Anyway, it is a fact, that the role of Muqtadara in our politics,
26:39we believe that the meeting and discussion of Muqtadara and political forces,
26:44is very important in our current environment and system,
26:48so that we can move forward.
26:50We should end the environment of hatred, anger and hatred in this country.
26:57Thank you very much for talking to us, Mr. Salman Akram Raja.
27:02Now let's come to the other side of the Negotiating Committee.
27:05Obviously, there is a lot of unity between the government and the government.
27:08After Mr. Rana Sanwala, we heard the details of the press conference.
27:11Irfan Siddiqui was also sitting with us.
27:13We have another member of the Negotiating Committee,
27:16who is sitting with the government.
27:19Mr. Ijaz-ul-Haq, Koz Ahmed, who is with us.
27:22Of course, there is also MNA and a member of the Governmental Committee.
27:25He is also the President of PMLJ.
27:26Sir, Assalam-o-Alaikum.
27:29Yes, Walaikum-as-Salam, Mr. Badami.
27:31Sir, thank you very much for your time, Mr. Ijaz.
27:33First of all, didn't Mr. Rana share a lot of firing?
27:36Or did Mr. Siddiqui give a press conference after the meeting?
27:42Look, Mr. Badami, there was a meeting in a very good atmosphere with Mr. Siddiqui.
27:51And the joint press statement that was given,
27:54it was repeated about 7-8 times,
27:59so that there is no such thing that is not liked.
28:06So, after correcting it again and again,
28:10a joint press conference was brought forward.
28:12So, I felt that it was a very good conversation and a very good meeting.
28:18But the letter, the demands that have been given,
28:22I mentioned it there first of all,
28:25that the words used in a good mood could have been much better.
28:32Because what Mr. Irfan Siddiqui said,
28:36that this is a charge sheet,
28:38the same words that have been used,
28:40that the government has been installed,
28:42or our people have been shot, this happened, this happened.
28:45When you are making a commission, you mention the commission,
28:48and the matters go ahead.
28:50But the demands that they have given,
28:56for their consumption as well,
28:59and for the consumption of their workers and the public,
29:02it was a little hard-hitting.
29:05So, didn't the overall atmosphere get a little affected by that?
29:08See, the atmosphere in the past,
29:13after the last meeting, the press conference was held by them.
29:18In fact, there was no such statement from the government,
29:23due to which there would have been a reaction.
29:26But the PTI held a press conference in a hurry,
29:30put allegations on the speaker,
29:32on which the speaker said today,
29:34that if you don't trust me, then you can put someone else here.
29:38But then they expressed their trust on both sides.
29:42What do you think,
29:44the commission, the conditions that the PTI has given,
29:47will it be made on them?
29:52See, I have my own opinion on this,
29:54I can express that.
29:56What is that?
29:57A sub-committee has been formed,
29:59the law ministers will be in it,
30:01representatives of all parties will be in it,
30:03after that, a better reaction can be seen.
30:07Right now, what they have written in it,
30:12in their charter,
30:14the government and the opposition will sit together
30:17and decide who should be on the commission,
30:22who should be the judges.
30:24So, according to my knowledge,
30:27and according to my knowledge,
30:29you cannot dictate to the Supreme Court,
30:32that you can request this judge,
30:34that these are our demands,
30:36these are our TORs,
30:38you can make a commission on this.
30:40But this is the responsibility of the Supreme Court,
30:42of the Chief Justice,
30:44which judges they want to bring in,
30:46whether they want to listen to our recommendation or not.
30:49So, this is the first thing.
30:51The second thing is that,
30:53this will also have to be checked,
30:55I do not know,
30:56Salman Akram Raja Sahib or someone else,
30:58I had raised this question there,
31:00in the meeting also,
31:02that the cases which are sub-judices,
31:05can a commission be made on them or not?
31:07Right.
31:08So, this will also have to be considered,
31:11and when our sub-committee meeting will take place,
31:13then this information will be there.
31:15But overall, I understand that,
31:17there was a discussion in a very good environment,
31:19and the government gave an indication of this,
31:21as it was said in the press release,
31:23that according to your wish,
31:25your meetings,
31:27the way you want them to be held,
31:29in a free environment,
31:31we will try to do it,
31:33and it will come very soon.
31:35Sir, it seems that today,
31:37the environment in the meeting room was different,
31:39and the environment in the press conference was different.
31:41See, in the discussion,
31:43he said what you said,
31:45that we should meet.
31:47So, when you say,
31:49meet in a free environment,
31:51the freedom of the jail is crossed.
31:53So, how can we meet in a free environment?
31:55Although, the definition of their freedom is,
31:57not to use a secret camera.
31:59So, even in that,
32:01you see, Mr. Irfan Siddiqui has given a line today,
32:03so there is a difference.
32:05But,
32:07in the joint press release,
32:09who were the writers,
32:11and who were the readers?
32:13Who were the readers?
32:15Yes,
32:17that's right.
32:19Now, tell me,
32:21what is the matter of meeting?
32:23Did you have a separate meeting
32:25with Barrister Gauhar,
32:27with Asim Munir?
32:29There is no such thing,
32:31I mean,
32:33it is a very big thing.
32:35If you are going somewhere,
32:37you are sitting in a meeting,
32:39a meeting is being held at Law & Order,
32:41you are drinking tea,
32:43or sitting in a room,
32:45if you meet,
32:47then I think it is a very good thing.
32:49There is nothing wrong in it.
32:51But, the bottom line is that,
32:53whatever the decision will be,
32:55whatever the matter will go ahead,
32:57it will go through this committee.
32:59That is,
33:01the recommendations of this committee,
33:03the consensus on that…
33:05Mr. Iqbal, one last time,
33:07I think we should rephrase this,
33:09Mr. Iqbal said today,
33:11that even if something else is going on,
33:13its effect will be seen in this meeting,
33:15in this discussion.
33:17So, even if something is decided,
33:19obviously, there will be no discussion
33:21in the GHQ,
33:23so it will come from here,
33:25then you will see.
33:27Exactly,
33:29this is what I am telling you.
33:31The last thing,
33:33if the decision comes tomorrow,
33:35and yesterday in our program,
33:37Mr. Khan will also be released soon,
33:39elections will also be held,
33:41so I said to him,
33:43Sir, will you be surprised
33:45if tomorrow,
33:47Bushra Bibi Sahiba will also be punished?
33:49He said, I will be very surprised.
33:51I said, I will not be surprised.
33:53If tomorrow, Bushra Bibi Sahiba
33:55will also be punished,
33:57that means she will go to jail,
33:59then won't this be a new turn in the situation?
34:01Look, this has been said again and again
34:03by them as well,
34:05that the cases
34:07will not have any effect
34:09with this dialogue.
34:11That the cases will continue
34:13and the dialogue will continue.
34:15And I think,
34:17they are also keen
34:19that the decision comes soon
34:21so that they can take it to the High Court
34:23and get some relief from there.
34:25That's why I don't think
34:27that the decision of the case
34:29will have any effect
34:31with this dialogue.
34:33Thank you very much, sir.
35:03Assalam-o-Alaikum, Huzoor.
35:27Yes, Assalam-o-Alaikum.
35:29Sir, first tell us
35:31about the meeting.
35:33In your opinion,
35:35have there really been
35:37any meetings
35:39due to which the government
35:41should be worried?
35:43Or has the PTI increased it
35:45just for the sake of the story?
35:47I don't think the PTI has increased it.
35:49What the PTI has said
35:51is reasonable.
35:53And the government
35:55is also concerned.
35:57Huzoor, when the translation
35:59of the press conference
36:01on the day of the inauguration
36:03was held,
36:05they themselves said
36:07that if they had told
36:09what had been discussed
36:11in that meeting,
36:13it would have been very worrisome.
36:15And I was already saying
36:17that it was time to smile.
36:19So, what else is there?
36:21Okay.
36:23In response to what they said,
36:25they had to put some
36:27restrictions.
36:57The political parties
36:59should also be on board
37:01if we want to move towards
37:03a stable system.
37:05And I think
37:07the atmosphere is being formed.
37:09And not only that,
37:11the establishment
37:13wants to normalize Pakistan.
37:15There are people in the PMLN
37:17and the previous party
37:19who want to normalize Pakistan.
37:21Extremists are everywhere.
37:23Extremists are also present
37:25and ultimately want to
37:27negotiate with each other.
37:29So, I don't understand
37:31why they sit like this
37:33and say that this has happened
37:35and that has happened.
37:37All the pressure you put
37:39is to negotiate.
37:41So, I think that whatever
37:43the formula will be,
37:45which I think is very premature,
37:47if it is formed,
37:49it will be good for Pakistan
37:51and normalization
37:53will be good for Pakistan.
38:23What impact will it have on Pakistan's politics?
38:25I think that
38:27by March,
38:29let's see
38:31who will be nominated
38:33for the affairs of Pakistan
38:35or the affairs of this region.
38:37President Trump.
38:39And Mr. Fawad,
38:41you also said that
38:43it is not that
38:45for example, the government
38:47or the other masses are being
38:49shown to be right and left,
38:51but the government is not at all
38:53on board and everything inside
38:55has become messy.
38:57You are also saying that
38:59the government is on board
39:01and whatever is happening
39:03on it.
39:05You tell me,
39:07how much do you agree with this
39:09or not?
39:11Because on November 26,
39:13the PTI has exercised
39:15a maximum thing,
39:17the results of which
39:19are that we will give relaxation
39:21but on our own terms.
39:23Whether it is the commission or
39:25anything else,
39:27no optics will ever go
39:29that Mr. Khan won
39:31and the other team
39:33has lost.
39:35Do you agree with this?
39:37Look,
39:39when there are negotiations,
39:41winning or losing is not
39:43based on imagination,
39:45it is based on equality.
39:47Look,
39:49on the Judicial Commission,
39:51the truth is that
39:53I am confused that
39:55why is the PTI emphasizing so much
39:57and why is the government
39:59so reluctant?
40:01I think this is the best deal
40:03the government can get.
40:05Like the other judges,
40:07they will put a judge
40:09and there can be a debate
40:11on TORs.
40:13How will they put their own?
40:15That will be discussed later.
40:17As far as the Judicial Commission is concerned,
40:19I think there is no issue.
40:21The Judicial Commission
40:23has two incidents.
40:25Mr. Fawad, I am looking at it
40:27as if the Judicial Commission
40:29has no problem,
40:31but they are so reluctant.
40:33So, how will they show
40:35their reluctance
40:37to the things that
40:39will really have an impact?
40:41There is only one thing
40:43that is
40:45that the elections will be less.
40:47Imran Khan wants
40:49a foreign election
40:51and the government wants
40:53to get time.
40:55There is a debate
40:57on the intermediate
40:59interregnum.
41:01And what is the real
41:03meaning of Imran Khan's
41:05release?
41:07How much time
41:09can Imran Khan give
41:11for a foreign election?
41:13There is no importance
41:15of that.
41:17I think Imran Khan can
41:19give time and should.
41:21We should take this forward
41:23and normalize Pakistan.
41:25At the moment,
41:27it is not normal.
41:29If someone is thinking
41:31that the PTI cannot protest
41:33on 26 November,
41:35that is wrong.
41:37I have seen the government
41:39of Shahbaz Sharif
41:41or anyone else
41:43do not do anything.
41:45You see,
41:47like Maryam Nawaz
41:49does a speech every day,
41:51and you go down and see
41:53how bad the government
41:55is in Punjab at the moment.
41:57So all these things
41:59have no delivery,
42:01nothing is going on.
42:03See, what is the difference
42:05between Pravesh Musharraf,
42:07now there is no dollar
42:09and no popularity,
42:11so how can you deliver?
42:13I agree that
42:15your problem is that
42:17why is the PTI
42:19putting so much pressure
42:21on the commission
42:23and why is the government
42:25so reluctant?
42:27The most recent example
42:29of this is that
42:31I asked Salman Akram Rai
42:33if the commission's decision
42:35was not acceptable.
42:37So if all these
42:39steps have been taken,
42:41that the judges have agreed,
42:43the commission has been formed
42:45and the result has come,
42:47then according to Salman Raja
42:49the PTI has won the right
42:51and the commission has said
42:53that it is over.
42:55So what is the real problem?
42:57The real problem is that
42:59even after the 126 days
43:01the commission was formed
43:03and the result came.
43:05What happened?
43:07The result came,
43:09but there is no debate.
43:11If I am advising
43:13in the place of the government
43:15and I am in their place,
43:17then I would say
43:19that the commission should be formed
43:21because these things
43:23have to come back.
43:25The problem is that
43:27the police raids in Punjab
43:29have caused
43:31I think that
43:33if there are 5-6 people in a house
43:35and then their friends, relatives,
43:37neighborhood,
43:39you have directly affected
43:4175 lakh crore people
43:43with your policies.
43:45Those people are very bitter.
43:47Now if you want to improve
43:49these things by making a commission,
43:51you should do it yourself
43:53because people do not forget.
43:55They say that one can forgive
43:57but cannot forget.
43:59This is a very problematic
44:01situation in a province
44:03like Punjab.
44:05Anyway, it is necessary
44:07to normalize it.
44:09It is necessary
44:11to normalize Pakistan
44:13and it cannot be done
44:15without Imran Khan's inclusion.
44:17You have tried for two years.
44:19Imran Khan's popularity
44:21is not being answered.
44:23On the contrary,
44:25Shahbaz Sharif and Asif Zardari
44:27are political dead bodies
44:29that the establishment
44:31is taking away.
44:33They are neither being sold
44:35nor are they being distributed.
44:37The real problem is that
44:39when will the elections happen?
44:41The government will say
44:43that the elections will not happen
44:45immediately.
44:47Even if they agree,
44:49the elections will be held
44:51on the 26th or 27th
44:53and not on the 29th.
44:55Will the trust deficit
44:57end?
44:59Will the government believe
45:01that they have given
45:03relaxation to Imran Khan
45:05and will not do anything
45:07till the end of the year?
45:09Will anyone believe
45:11that Imran Khan has said this?
45:13This is a mechanism.
45:15This is a mechanism.
45:17This is the mechanism
45:19that is being debated.
45:21Where do you want to stop?
45:23The background meetings
45:25are also being held
45:27on the basis of this mechanism.
45:29They are looking at
45:31how to move forward.
45:33The national government
45:35is needed in the middle.
45:37They have to decide
45:39how to proceed.
45:41For a long time,
45:43if you say that Shahbaz Sharif
45:45and the Chief Election Commissioner
45:47and the judge will sit here
45:49on the 26th,
45:51then you will have to
45:53go towards an alternate
45:55national government.
45:57We can at least sum up
45:59that if many stages
46:01have to be overcome,
46:03then there will be clear changes
46:05in the scenario.
46:07The scenario is not going to change
46:09in 6 months or 6 weeks.
46:11It depends on
46:13when there is a change in the White House.
46:15From 20th January to
46:171st March,
46:19we will see
46:21what the policy is.
46:23If President Trump
46:25has decided,
46:27because the 3-4 people
46:29who are Trump's main advisors
46:31in this region,
46:33such as Richard Grenell,
46:35Zalmay Khalilzad,
46:37who has just put
46:39his representative
46:41in the Middle East,
46:43their thoughts
46:45are very clear
46:47.
46:49Pakistan is not in any position
46:51to resist American pressure.
46:53That will be a different
46:55situation.
46:57If the government manages
46:59and the Biden policy
47:01continues,
47:03then it will be different.
47:05Towards the end,
47:07when it comes to an official matter,
47:09it is also said that
47:11the matter cannot be resolved
47:13without crossing 9th May.
47:15If we talk to Mr. Gandapur,
47:17he said
47:19that he owns
47:21the party.
47:23Let's see what Mr. Gandapur
47:25has to say about 9th May.
47:27Let's meet the Chief Executive
47:29of KPK, PTI,
47:31Mr. Gandapur.
47:33Most of the people
47:35do not disown us.
47:37They did wrong.
47:39At least I don't disown them.
47:41They were my people.
47:43They were the people of our party.
47:45And they should be punished or they should be forgiven.
47:47Whatever is the punishment
47:49according to the law of mistake,
47:51it should be given.
47:53I don't make a mistake because
47:55due to ignorance,
47:57because of mistake, because of stupidity,
47:59because of emotions,
48:01if he has crossed a line,
48:03then he should be punished
48:05for crossing that line.
48:07A mistake does not mean
48:09that you make it illegal
48:11to go to this extent.
48:13Sometimes you are shot, sometimes you are tortured.
48:15You should be tortured at that level.
48:17Sir, what will you say, Mr. Fawad?
48:21Look, 9th May
48:23is right, but if
48:25Don Leaks can be settled,
48:27if the crime of landing
48:29the ship of the Chief of Army Staff
48:31in India can be settled,
48:33then 9th May will also be settled.
48:35This is a fact, not a cause.
48:37When the situation
48:39starts, then such things
48:41get covered.
48:43PTI will take a step back,
48:45they will take a step back from the other side.
48:47Now look, 8th February
48:49is also a fact.
48:51Then who has to justify
48:538th February?
48:55Article 6 of the Public Mandate
48:57has also been stolen.
48:59So look, these things
49:01will be equal in both cases.
49:03The real thing is that
49:05there should be a little trust,
49:07there should be a little tolerance.
49:09So these things are not difficult to settle.
49:11Primarily,
49:13in my opinion, the most important issue
49:15is the date of the elections.
49:17How much time does Imran Khan give for it?
49:19And this is the thing.
49:21And in today's date,
49:23what is your understanding
49:25even after meeting Mr. Khan
49:27and as a political commentator,
49:29that in today's date, Mr. Khan
49:31wants an election immediately
49:33or is he ready for a year and a half?
49:35Look, Mr. Khan obviously
49:37wants an election immediately,
49:39but in my personal opinion,
49:41Mr. Khan also needs to go out
49:43and reorganize the party.
49:45There is a big vacuum in the party right now.
49:47The current leadership
49:49can't run the matter
49:51in that way, nor are they political people.
49:53Mr. Khan has to revamp it,
49:55he has to organize the party,
49:57he also needs some time.
49:59There may be time, but it is such a thing.
50:01Thank you very much,
50:03Tomorrow is the 17th of January,
50:05the verdict of the case will come,
50:07and it seems that the verdict will come.
50:09And you won't be surprised
50:11if the verdict of tomorrow comes.
50:13Mr. Khan is behind the bars,
50:15but Bushra Bibi,
50:17who is a free citizen,
50:19should also go behind the bars
50:21and become another Mandarnama
50:23which is different from today's Mandarnama.
50:25Zindagi Sehzadi, see you in the next episode.
50:27Allah Hafiz.
50:33Allah Hafiz.